From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 13 Jan 2003 08:11:01 -0000 Issue 605 Date: Monday, January 13, 2003 12:11 AM krnet Digest 13 Jan 2003 08:11:01 -0000 Issue 605 Topics (messages 14450 through 14472): Re: bosch fuel injected corvair 14450 by: DON WALKER 14452 by: kevin Re: Deihl Gear legs 14451 by: TIM BOYER Re: Center stick 14453 by: Louis Staalberg 14460 by: Edwin Blocher Re: duel stick 14454 by: Louis Staalberg Main Spars 14455 by: Phillip Matheson 14458 by: virgnvs.juno.com 14459 by: Phillip Matheson Boat stage project for sale 14456 by: Rex Ellington 14464 by: Robert Stone Re: A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? 14457 by: Phillip Matheson Kr's near North Chicago IL 14461 by: Darren Pond Peter Eich's cowlings 14462 by: Serge Vidal Internet escrow 14463 by: Serge Vidal Re: For Sale 14465 by: Christine A Bounds 14466 by: gleone little bitty update 14467 by: Mark Langford 14470 by: Robert X. Cringely Photo of the week. 14468 by: Mark Jones 14471 by: Rick Hubka Re: CARB for Corvair or fuel injection 14469 by: Ron Eason Polyester or Epoxy? 14472 by: Serge Vidal Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 23:54:28 -0700 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: DON WALKER Subject: Re: KR> Re: bosch fuel injected corvair Message-id: <5cfb985c9654.5c96545cfb98@icomcast.net> I work with fuel injection every day- the optimum and somewhat less expensive(yes i know you can find bosch systems all day long in the junkyard for nothing, but I wouldnt put any of that on my airplane) way to fuel inject a 4-6 cyl engine would be to use a programmable engine management system like Motec or DTA and spend some time mapping them out- with these systems a lot of tuning issues we run into with carburetors just do not exist- not only can I map each rpm/load condition, but I can tailor each cylinders needs for both fuel and ignition individually using trims, and can even let the engine map itself using a wideband lambda sensor. Now this may be old hat to some members, but I honestly do not think people realize how much easier and less expensive it is to simply install a universal ecu than try and make one fit and work optimumly with the motor and application we require. For example, a DTA basic (E48)efi computer is 1000.00, and the harness approx 400.00 for the universal. A much more advanced system is available for 1500.00, and has auxillary outputs to run fans, open vents, turn on heat, etc based on criteria you program into it.We also have "flight recorders" that will log 8 or more inputs for 25 minutes, enough to analyze what is going on with your engine or other inputs during flight. the real cost now is hardware, the throttle bodies and sensors, but even that cost can be negligible as since we are using auto engines in most cases the manifolds exists already, needing only to be outfitted and set-up for the new aircraft application. Turocharging is a natural complement to efi, and the tunability of the ecu increases performance and safety. If anyone is intersted in either Motec or DTA engine management feel free to email me direct, as I am a dealer for DTA and work with a Motec dealer. We use these systems on racing cars, and believe me the improvement over a carb cannot be appreciatted until you feel it for yourself ----- Original Message ----- From: Carrottop104@aol.com Date: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:27 pm Subject: KR> Re: bosch fuel injected corvair > I have worked with bosch fuel injection systems. They are a > reliable system > but they are mostly set up for a four cylinder 1800 CC engine. I > am not > familiar with the newer models but you could probably find a > system on a > newer V6 engine closer to 3000 cc. You must conceder the size of > the throttle > body. The engine is only as strong as the amount of air it can > consume. A > reciprocating engine is an exceptionally inefficient machine. > Normally it > converts less than 1/3 of the energy in the fuel into useful work. > Approximately 1/2 of the energy goes out the cylinder through the > exhaust. > About 12% of the energy is lost through the cylinder-part is > carried away by > the air or liquid coolant and part by the lubricating oil. Another > 6% is lost > in compressing the air in the cylinders and turning the moving > parts in the > engine. This leaves about 31% of the original heat energy in the > fuel to be > converted into useful work. Now that you can see just how > inefficient the > engine is, you can see how important it is to supply as much > induction air as > possible. A naturally aspirated engine will only draw in so much > air into > the cylinder. The intake valve of a typical engine is open for > approximately > 240 degrease of the crankshaft rotation, and when the engine is > turning at > 2,300 RPM, the valve is open for approximatly 0.017 second. There > is not > enough time during each cycle for the mixture to completely fill > the > cylinder. This is where the term Volumetric Efficiency come in. > > Volumetric Efficiency = Volume of charge taken into the cylinder > Volume of the cylinder > > A number of things affect Volumetric Efficiency. Some of these > are: engine > RPM, induction air temperature, cylinder head temp, valve timing, > design of > the induction system and the degree of turbo charging. Long > induction pipes > of small diameter restrict the air flow and reduce the Volumetric > Efficiency. > A venturi too small in a throttle body or carburetor will > constrict the > amount of air into the cylinders and reduce the Vol. efficiency. > Valve > overlap, is the time at the end of the exhaust stroke and the > beginning of > the intake stroke when both valves are off their seat, it is > critical for > high Volumetric efficiency. If either the intake or exhaust valve > clearance > is too large, the cam will turn farther before the valve opens, > and the valve > will close before the cam has rotated to the correct position for > the valve > to close. This decreases the number of crankshaft rotation the > valve is off > its seat and decreases valve overlap. Valve overlap aids in > scavenging the > burned exhaust gases and gives the engine better cooling > characteristics. It > does this as the cool dense air mixture enters the cylinder it > aids to expel > out the exhaust. Hot air is less dense than cold air. High > induction air > temperature or high cylinder head temperature will cause the > cylinder to be > filled with low-density hot air, and there will be less mass of > air to mix > with the fuel. The power loss from hot air can easily be shown by > the amount > of RPM drop when you use carb heat, or power lost from detonation > caused by a > hot cylinder head. A naturally aspirated engine can never have a > Valumemetric > Efficiency of 100%, but a turbo charger compresses the air before > it enters > the engine cylinder and can exceed 100%. I am not telling you to > go get a > turbo charger!!! most people hear turbo and think more power! In > aircraft > that is not the reason for a turbo charger. Yes, you do get more > power, but > the main reason is to fly at higher altitudes where the air is too > thin for a > naturally aspirated engine to compress the air enough for the > engine to > operate. You need to know that the Bosch injection system will > not supply > fuel to the engine until it is already running. The system > operates by the > induction air that is being pulled through the throttle body fist > passes > through a large disk plate mounted horizontally inside the air > flow meter > housing. After the engine is started, the low pressure from the > cylinders > draws air in from the air flow meter. This is also the box that > contains the > air filter. The more air the cylinders draw the higher the disk in > the air > flow meter raises as air pass, and tells the air flow meter to > deliver more > fuel to the engine. To get the engine to start they installed a > cold start > valve into the intake manifold. When you start the engine power > from the > starter is sent to the cold start relay mounted in the fuse box > under the > drivers side dash. The cold start relay also has a signal sent to > it by the > water temperature sending unit to tell it if the engine is hot or > cold. If > the engine is already hot the cold start relay will not activate > the cold > start valve and the engine will start on vapors already in the > engine. If > the engine is cold the cold start relay will send voltage to the > cold start > valve. The valve will spray fuel straight across the inside of > the intake > manifold, and as the engine is turning over the fuel is drawn into > the > cylinders with the induction air. After the engine starts, the > cold start > valve closes and the engine draws air through the air flow meter > disk and > then the fuel inject starts to fuel the engine. On a corvair you > will need > to install a cold start valve into both cylinder heads for the > engine to > start. I would mount the cold start valve so it will spray across > all three > intake ports from one end to the other. These systems also have a > high > pressure fuel return to the tank. You might want to install > baffles in your > fuel tank to keep the fuel from foaming or air bobbles You don't > want vapor > lock! I would also run two fuel pumps in parallel if one should > fail you > could turn on the other. I don't know if the fuel would back flow > through > the other fuel pump or not. You may need to install a high > pressure check > valve into the out let of both fuel pumps... The automatic > altitude > compensation system may not work at the altitudes you will be > flying at. > There is a mixture control on the top of the air flow meter > housing but it > take a special tool to adjust it. I know it only takes a little > adjustment > to make a difference. This might the most challenging part of the > project. > How to make a reliable mixture control. You can get the parts for > next to > nothing at a wrecking yard, it wouldn't hurt to play with one. > Again I > strongly advise using a spar set of cylinder heads when > experimenting with > fuel injection. You will lose nothing if it doesn't work out for > you, Just > change back to your old heads and nothing but your induction > system has been > changed. Some of the Bosch systems my vary a little in operation > so I would > get the auto Manuel for the type and year of the car you pull the > injection > from. Good luck. Larry > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 08:00:44 -0600 To: From: "kevin" Subject: Re: KR> Re: bosch fuel injected corvair Message-ID: <002701c2b979$d6200800$79353a41@hppav> Wow Larry. Thanks for the Bosch education. Kevin. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 12:27 AM Subject: KR> Re: bosch fuel injected corvair > I have worked with bosch fuel injection systems. They are a reliable system > but they are mostly set up for a four cylinder 1800 CC engine. I am not > familiar with the newer models but you could probably find a system on a > newer V6 engine closer to 3000 cc. You must conceder the size of the throttle > body. The engine is only as strong as the amount of air it can consume. A > reciprocating engine is an exceptionally inefficient machine. Normally it > converts less than 1/3 of the energy in the fuel into useful work. > Approximately 1/2 of the energy goes out the cylinder through the exhaust. > About 12% of the energy is lost through the cylinder-part is carried away by > the air or liquid coolant and part by the lubricating oil. Another 6% is lost > in compressing the air in the cylinders and turning the moving parts in the > engine. This leaves about 31% of the original heat energy in the fuel to be > converted into useful work. Now that you can see just how inefficient the > engine is, you can see how important it is to supply as much induction air as > possible. A naturally aspirated engine will only draw in so much air into > the cylinder. The intake valve of a typical engine is open for approximately > 240 degrease of the crankshaft rotation, and when the engine is turning at > 2,300 RPM, the valve is open for approximatly 0.017 second. There is not > enough time during each cycle for the mixture to completely fill the > cylinder. This is where the term Volumetric Efficiency come in. > > Volumetric Efficiency = Volume of charge taken into the cylinder > Volume of the cylinder > > A number of things affect Volumetric Efficiency. Some of these are: engine > RPM, induction air temperature, cylinder head temp, valve timing, design of > the induction system and the degree of turbo charging. Long induction pipes > of small diameter restrict the air flow and reduce the Volumetric Efficiency. > A venturi too small in a throttle body or carburetor will constrict the > amount of air into the cylinders and reduce the Vol. efficiency. Valve > overlap, is the time at the end of the exhaust stroke and the beginning of > the intake stroke when both valves are off their seat, it is critical for > high Volumetric efficiency. If either the intake or exhaust valve clearance > is too large, the cam will turn farther before the valve opens, and the valve > will close before the cam has rotated to the correct position for the valve > to close. This decreases the number of crankshaft rotation the valve is off > its seat and decreases valve overlap. Valve overlap aids in scavenging the > burned exhaust gases and gives the engine better cooling characteristics. It > does this as the cool dense air mixture enters the cylinder it aids to expel > out the exhaust. Hot air is less dense than cold air. High induction air > temperature or high cylinder head temperature will cause the cylinder to be > filled with low-density hot air, and there will be less mass of air to mix > with the fuel. The power loss from hot air can easily be shown by the amount > of RPM drop when you use carb heat, or power lost from detonation caused by a > hot cylinder head. A naturally aspirated engine can never have a Valumemetric > Efficiency of 100%, but a turbo charger compresses the air before it enters > the engine cylinder and can exceed 100%. I am not telling you to go get a > turbo charger!!! most people hear turbo and think more power! In aircraft > that is not the reason for a turbo charger. Yes, you do get more power, but > the main reason is to fly at higher altitudes where the air is too thin for a > naturally aspirated engine to compress the air enough for the engine to > operate. You need to know that the Bosch injection system will not supply > fuel to the engine until it is already running. The system operates by the > induction air that is being pulled through the throttle body fist passes > through a large disk plate mounted horizontally inside the air flow meter > housing. After the engine is started, the low pressure from the cylinders > draws air in from the air flow meter. This is also the box that contains the > air filter. The more air the cylinders draw the higher the disk in the air > flow meter raises as air pass, and tells the air flow meter to deliver more > fuel to the engine. To get the engine to start they installed a cold start > valve into the intake manifold. When you start the engine power from the > starter is sent to the cold start relay mounted in the fuse box under the > drivers side dash. The cold start relay also has a signal sent to it by the > water temperature sending unit to tell it if the engine is hot or cold. If > the engine is already hot the cold start relay will not activate the cold > start valve and the engine will start on vapors already in the engine. If > the engine is cold the cold start relay will send voltage to the cold start > valve. The valve will spray fuel straight across the inside of the intake > manifold, and as the engine is turning over the fuel is drawn into the > cylinders with the induction air. After the engine starts, the cold start > valve closes and the engine draws air through the air flow meter disk and > then the fuel inject starts to fuel the engine. On a corvair you will need > to install a cold start valve into both cylinder heads for the engine to > start. I would mount the cold start valve so it will spray across all three > intake ports from one end to the other. These systems also have a high > pressure fuel return to the tank. You might want to install baffles in your > fuel tank to keep the fuel from foaming or air bobbles You don't want vapor > lock! I would also run two fuel pumps in parallel if one should fail you > could turn on the other. I don't know if the fuel would back flow through > the other fuel pump or not. You may need to install a high pressure check > valve into the out let of both fuel pumps... The automatic altitude > compensation system may not work at the altitudes you will be flying at. > There is a mixture control on the top of the air flow meter housing but it > take a special tool to adjust it. I know it only takes a little adjustment > to make a difference. This might the most challenging part of the project. > How to make a reliable mixture control. You can get the parts for next to > nothing at a wrecking yard, it wouldn't hurt to play with one. Again I > strongly advise using a spar set of cylinder heads when experimenting with > fuel injection. You will lose nothing if it doesn't work out for you, Just > change back to your old heads and nothing but your induction system has been > changed. Some of the Bosch systems my vary a little in operation so I would > get the auto Manuel for the type and year of the car you pull the injection > from. Good luck. Larry > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 05:43:21 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: TIM BOYER Subject: Re: KR> Deihl Gear legs Message-Id: <20030111134321.79C233AFB@sitemail.everyone.net> ------------=_1042292601-6975-1 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Steve, If you haven't sold your main gear I'm interested. Would sending them COD be problem? Thanks Tim Gettysburg PA --- message from "Steve Glover" attached: _____________________________________________________________ A free email account your friends will never forget! Get YOURNAME@EmailAccount.com at http://www.emailaccount.com/ _____________________________________________________________ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get you@yourchoice.com w/No Ads, 6MB, POP & more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=tag ------------=_1042292601-6975-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary Received: from mailinglists.org (server1.mailinglists.org [63.160.175.18]) by imta13.mta.everyone.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 50F8581603 for ; Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:08:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 17523 invoked by alias); 9 Jan 2003 05:08:45 -0000 Mailing-List: contact krnet-help@mailinglists.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Reply-To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Delivered-To: mailing list krnet@mailinglists.org Received: (qmail 17514 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2003 05:08:44 -0000 Message-ID: <002801c2b79c$e7b90a00$c18afea9@IntelliSpec> From: "Steve Glover" To: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:06:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2B759.D9152850" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: KR> Deihl Gear legs Sender: krnet-return-14399-FLYING-COWBOY=emailaccount.com@mailinglists.org ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2B759.D9152850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Netter's, I have a good used set of gear legs, spar attach brackets, and lower = brackets for a tri gear set-up for sale. The lower bracket was drilled = for a Cleveland pattern. I bought the set for the wheels and brakes = that came with them but since I already have the Deihl conventional set = installed, I don't need these. The first with the best Reasonable offer = plus shipping will get them. I finally took my KR-2 to the airport (AJO) last weekend. I have been = final sanding and painting this week and should have it completed by = this weekend. I am retrofitting the Cleveland wheels and brakes and = dumping the Enginetics set I have with the Azusa wheels. I am hoping to = be signed off for flight in the next couple of weeks. It looks like I = will at least make the next Gathering. Steve Glover Rancho Santa Margarita, Ca. n925sg@earthlink.net ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2B759.D9152850-- ------------=_1042292601-6975-1-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:49:49 -0700 To: From: "Louis Staalberg" Subject: Re: KR> Center stick Message-ID: <001201c2b991$754be5e0$0100a8c0@toshiba> To Edwin Blocher. Edwin, give my your snail mail address and I will be glad to make you a copy. Regards Louis Staalberg N9FL@cybertrails.com Payson, Arizona ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:49:47 -0600 To: , "Louis Staalberg" From: "Edwin Blocher" Subject: Re: KR> Center stick Message-ID: <014501c2b9e5$45e54d60$0201a8c0@computer> Louis, Thanks for your offer and I do appreciate it. The address is: Edwin Blocher 21 Garnett Bayou Rd. Santa Rosa Beach, FL 32459 Thanks a lot, ed Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Louis Staalberg" To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:49 AM Subject: Re: KR> Center stick > To Edwin Blocher. > Edwin, give my your snail mail address and I will be glad to make you > a copy. > Regards > > Louis Staalberg > N9FL@cybertrails.com > Payson, Arizona > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 09:54:10 -0700 To: From: "Louis Staalberg" Subject: Re: KR>duel stick Message-ID: <001d01c2b992$10dd5660$0100a8c0@toshiba> To Phillip Matheson. Push rod until after the rear spar, then cable. Cable for ailerons. regards, Louis Staalberg N9FL@cybertrails.com Payson, Arizona ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 08:44:09 +1100 To: "krnet listing" From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Main Spars Message-ID: <003a01c2b9ba$942e19a0$0100a8c0@barry> ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C2BA16.C64EE020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I sent this to Mark L , but would anyone else care to comment??? I have not included the Attach. to the KRnet. Mark, I have received four new spar caps for my KR2, but two have to be = replaced due to warps and cracks, They now are having problems getting = single piece spar caps. Question,=20 If I get two new caps,and laminate them, as yours are, Where do I put = them?,Top or bottom of the main spar??? And which way should the grain run ? I will have two one piece caps and two laminated. I have been told a few different things and would like your input. I have attached a drawing a friend sent me from a EAA Wood Book. It says, "Laminated spars should use Edge or Vertical Grain Timber, and be = laminated Horizontally. Put on top so that they are subject to compression loads." I'm not sure what they mean by that. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 NSW Australia. See our VW engines at; www.vw-engines.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: norm edmunds=20 To: Phillip Matheson=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:03 PM Subject: sparz -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 NSW Australia. See our VW engines at; www.vw-engines.com ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C2BA16.C64EE020-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:47:27 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Main Spars Message-ID: <20030111.194937.-436647.1.virgnvs@juno.com> My KR Plans show laminated spar caps. The laminating and grain are shown, Virg On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 08:44:09 +1100 "Phillip Matheson" writes: > I sent this to Mark L , but would anyone else care to comment??? > I have not included the Attach. to the KRnet. > > Mark, > > I have received four new spar caps for my KR2, but two have to be > replaced due to warps and cracks, They now are having problems > getting single piece spar caps. > Question, > If I get two new caps,and laminate them, as yours are, Where do I > put them?,Top or bottom of the main spar??? > And which way should the grain run ? > I will have two one piece caps and two laminated. > > I have been told a few different things and would like your input. > I have attached a drawing a friend sent me from a EAA Wood Book. > > It says, > "Laminated spars should use Edge or Vertical Grain Timber, and be > laminated Horizontally. > Put on top so that they are subject to compression loads." > > I'm not sure what they mean by that. > > > > Phil Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.au > 61 3 58833588 > NSW > Australia. > See our VW engines at; > www.vw-engines.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: norm edmunds > To: Phillip Matheson > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 8:03 PM > Subject: sparz > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- > > Phil Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.au > 61 3 58833588 > NSW > Australia. > See our VW engines at; > www.vw-engines.com > Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:59:18 +1100 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Main Spars Message-ID: <010a01c2b9d5$d72209e0$0100a8c0@barry> Sorry Virg, My set only shows one piece spar caps, in the blue covered manual. I do not have any drawings of the Main spars. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 NSW Australia. See our VW engines at; www.vw-engines.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:55:22 -0600 To: From: "Rex Ellington" Subject: Boat stage project for sale Message-ID: <059901c2b9c4$86de0120$8d1c3941@D6R1QJ11> ------=_NextPart_000_0596_01C2B992.3B126420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Netters near Oklahoma Today, I had opportunity to examine the project of a deceased builder in = the Norman, OK area. For location, call up Maps and look for intersection of Norman, OK = street Alameda and 60th Ave SE. It is taildragger configuration out of the boat stage. Horizontal and = vertical tail are in place with=20 original KR hinges. Tail wheel is mounted. Dual-stick are mounted, with some fittings for cable loop. Cable and = fittings there for controls. Other items such as: hinge strips, Matco brake cylinders, Diehl gears = (mounted), Matco brakes with new tires and tubes, rudder pedals are crossmounted for brakes on = both sides, original fiberglass, forward and rear spar mounted, WAFs on hand, plus original = green foam. Owner would like to sell whole thing as a project. Contact Larry B. at B8203@Aol.com. Rex Ellington Norman, OK ------=_NextPart_000_0596_01C2B992.3B126420-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:06:00 -0600 To: From: "Robert Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Boat stage project for sale Message-ID: <001401c2ba5c$e5210820$05d81a18@hot.rr.com> Rex, Looks like you covered everything except, is it a KR-2, KR-2S or a KR-1???? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rex Ellington" To: Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 4:55 PM Subject: KR> Boat stage project for sale Netters near Oklahoma Today, I had opportunity to examine the project of a deceased builder in the Norman, OK area. For location, call up Maps and look for intersection of Norman, OK street Alameda and 60th Ave SE. It is taildragger configuration out of the boat stage. Horizontal and vertical tail are in place with original KR hinges. Tail wheel is mounted. Dual-stick are mounted, with some fittings for cable loop. Cable and fittings there for controls. Other items such as: hinge strips, Matco brake cylinders, Diehl gears (mounted), Matco brakes with new tires and tubes, rudder pedals are crossmounted for brakes on both sides, original fiberglass, forward and rear spar mounted, WAFs on hand, plus original green foam. Owner would like to sell whole thing as a project. Contact Larry B. at B8203@Aol.com. Rex Ellington Norman, OK ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:34:17 +1100 To: , From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? Message-ID: <00ff01c2b9d2$5812e820$0100a8c0@barry> Serge, sounds great. Have you any photo's of your set up? Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 NSW Australia. See our VW engines at; www.vw-engines.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serge Vidal" To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 5:32 AM Subject: KR> A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? > Do I get your attention? I thought so. > > Well, that's not a joke! I did it! I made the perfect KR2 strobe! ; - ) > Not conviced? Here are the specs > - Flash rate: 60 per minute > - Tube life: 1 million flashes > - Power: well, I don't know, but definitely more than old Cessna's beacons > - Weight: 98g (that's about 3.5 ounces) > - Overall dimensions (box + attached dome): diameter 65.5mm (2.57 inches), > height 78mm (3.07 inches) > - Strobe dome dimension: diameter 38.5mm (1.5 inches), height 43mm (1.7 > inches) > > Here is the story of that great engineering adventure. > > Step 1: locate a suitable strobe light > There are strobes that are extremely compact, lightweight, powerful, durable > and cheap. Those are the ones that are used for house alarm systems, or > signalling machines operation in workshops. They cost anything between $5 > and $20. Mine came from a house alarm, and cost me $6. These things look > like a fairlt flat,round box. The flashing element is a small Xenon tube, > that lays flat above a small, round shaped PCB. These strobes are nice, and > being a simple PCB, can be easily repackaged. > > Step 2: locate a suitable dome > Where to find a small plastic dome to fit the light in? Well, I went to the > nearest supermarket, and browsed the toiletry and detergents departments in > search of a cheap item that would have a container with a nice cap. I found > the almost perfect size, shape and thickness on a cheap roll-on deodorant, > unit price less than $1. Foul smell, but hey, I got the cap! > > Step 3: Repackage > I could have separated the Xenon light from the PCB, and repackaged it on > its own. But since I wanted to fit two strobes, at the top and bottom of the > fuselage, I decided to make the unit self contained, i.e. a box with a > protruding dome. > I found the perfect box as a household wiring junction box (the ones that > are used to join the plastic tubing on house wiring applications). Perfect > size and shape, and costs less than 50 cents each. > At that step, it became a collective effort. After a few trials, and heated > discussions with my colleagues at work, we decided to put the PCB upside > down in the box, unsolder the Xenon tube, and solder it again on the other > side of the PCB, but this time vertically (soldered to the PCB on the one > end, and linked to the PCB by wires at the other end and tube ring). We then > drilled a hole in the lid, so that the Xenon tube points up, still attached > to the PCB. Then, Epoxy the dome on the cap. Two holes are drilled in the > PCB, so that the box screws can go through. The same screws will be used to > mount the strobe to the fuselage skin. This is why I replaced the original > screws by stainless steel ones, despite their shameless cost ($0.5 each!), > to the risk of exceeding the project's budget! ; - ) > > Add a foam rubber weather seal, and job done! This was good enough, looked > good, and was fairly cheap... > > But at that stage, I lost control of my strobe project, which was taken over > by a perfectionist that happens to be one of my bosses, and likes to play > with CNC and milling machines. So, we went one step further, and...machined > another lid, made of Nylon, with a threaded protrusion that matches the > thread of the dome-shaped plastic cap. What for? Well, so that you can > change the dome, should it becomes cracked or damaged. Also, because that > guy does not like Epoxy solutions. > > The final product really looks great and works great. Can't wait to fit it > to the aircraft! > > Serge Vidal > KR2 ZS-WEC > Johannesburg, South Africa > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 21:41:44 -0500 To: "KR Net" From: "Darren Pond" Subject: Kr's near North Chicago IL Message-ID: I'm traveling to North Chicago. Is there any KR builders or fliers I can visit well I'm in the area? Email me at pondhopper@operamail.com if we can connect let me know. I'm in the area from Monday am until late Friday. Darren Pond CF-VML Taylor Mono plane almost flying. C-GGGW KR2 1835vw coming to a airport near you this spring PondHopper 2 place 2.2 turbo (building stage) Cambridge Ont Canada pond27@rogers.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:09:43 +0200 To: From: "Serge Vidal" Subject: Peter Eich's cowlings Message-ID: <000001c2ba11$fa716120$7e0027c4@sergevidal12> This is a question for my fellow Netters in South Africa. Does anyone know for sure whether Peter Eich's cowlings were made using Polyester resin or Epoxy resin? Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:16:06 +0200 To: From: "Serge Vidal" Subject: Internet escrow Message-ID: <000d01c2ba14$0f8ce780$7e0027c4@sergevidal12> Funny enough, "escrow" sounds exactly like "escroc" in French, which is the French word for...crook! Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa -----Original Message----- From: Robert E. Moser [mailto:araw@dicomsolutions.com] Sent: 11 January 2003 01:42 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: RE: KR> Bill Clapp - Bounced Check To List members: There is another way in addition to COD, internet escrow. An escrow agent holds a sales agreement established between two parties. The buyer sends the money to the agent. Then, the seller sends the merchandise. After the merchandise arrives and is accepted by the buyer, the agent releases the money to the seller. Everything is done online... I do most of my major internet purchases this way. Robert At 10:21 AM 1/10/2003 -0800, you wrote: >I feel for all of you that have gotten taken by this >creep. >Mr. Clapp should be man enough to make good on his >promise/contract. A man is only as good as his word. >There is a way to deal with this, which, unfortunatly, >found out the hard way, use C.O.D. That's the best >way to prevent from getting scammed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:18:22 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Christine A Bounds Subject: Re: KR> For Sale Message-ID: <20030112.151823.-166693.1.usaus@juno.com> Hello Frank, I spoke with you over the phone yesterday. Could you let me know how to get in contact with the person who purchased the 1970s KR. I am in need of instruments for my KR2s. Also could you send me a list of what the panel for the KR you sold had on it. Thanks Scott 512-736-5002 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 17:40:54 -0600 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: gleone Subject: Re: KR> For Sale Message-ID: <3E21FD06.2A6BEB37@tritel.net> --------------6BB314F8244AA6F99411CE09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy! I'm the guy who bought the KR and I will be using the instruments in my own bird. Gene Christine A Bounds wrote: > Hello Frank, > > I spoke with you over the phone yesterday. > Could you let me know how to get in contact with the person who purchased > the 1970s KR. I am in need of instruments for my KR2s. Also could you > send me a list of what the panel for the KR you sold had on it. > > Thanks > Scott > 512-736-5002 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files --------------6BB314F8244AA6F99411CE09-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:02:09 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: little bitty update Message-ID: <020901c2ba9f$66ec3e00$0100a8c0@TD310> NetHeads, I spent the day getting my rough wing tips into a little better shape, and making aileron counterweights. As you can see at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/03011212m.jpg , the counterweights are just 4130 tubes filled with lead. I heated up some old tire weights in an old boiler on a hot plate 'til they melted, and poured the lead down in the tubing and filled it from end to end. Epoxy and lead shot would work too, but this was more efficient use of the volume. I'd already calculated how many inches I'd need, based on weighing the trailing edge while the aileron was free to pivot about the hinge point, and summing moments. In the photo I'm in the process of sliding the counterweight into place, where it will be epoxied full length. I kinda like this method because my counterweight is uniformly distributed across the entire aileron, rather than at just one point. Also, my counterweight is faired in about as good as you can get it! Right now it's overbalanced, and after painting I can easily adjust it by drilling out some lead from the end. This photo also shows the split flap (which will require a gap seal) and makes it clear that I'll need some little fairings around my aileron hinges. These are Frise ailerons, with a long nose to counteract adverse yaw, not that there's anything wrong with the KR offset bellcrank method. The next task will be "healing" the edges of the aileron with carbon fiber to cover up the bare foam and strengthen the aileron. Next I'll have to make a clear streamlined cover for the nav/strobe lights on the wing tips. Then it's primer/surfacer and I can paint the wings! If I were to make these ailerons again, I'd think I'd just use piano hinges, and save myself a lot of trouble. Same goes for the flaps, but hinged at the bottom. I have some amazing hindsight. The ailerons and flaps were both halfway constructed "in place", hinges and all, and then cut out after the wing was laid up. I've often wondered why you wouldn't want to do that when building the "stock" ailerons per plans. Seems like it would save a lot of work. There are more details on my wing construction at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/owings.html . There's also a fair amount of "how to fiberglass" info in there, for those who need that sort of thing. After looking at this for a minute, I'm not sure if I'm a genius or a raving lunatic! Maybe somewhere in between. It's definitely not "stock" though. It's hard to believe it's been three years since I last worked on my wings. 2003 or bust... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 20:43:11 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Robert X. Cringely" Subject: Re: KR> little bitty update Message-Id: Dear Mark, My late friend Lyle Powell balanced the ailerons of his Glasair III in a manner very similar to yours. Lyle was an inveterate tinkerer and felt the need to change pretty much everything on every plane he built (sound familiar?). He built the first Glasair fixed tricycle because he hated it as a taildragger. He built the first Glasair wing extensions, was the first builder to take the cusp out of the ailerons and flaps. And when he later built a Glasair III (the only one ever built from S-glass!), he moved the ailerons out into the wing extensions allowing a much larger plain flap using all the area that was the flap and aileron on every other G-III. His new ailerons were short span, wide chord and way the heck out near the end of that 27 foot 8 inch wing. Now for the bad news: Lyle always regretted balancing his ailerons the way he (and you just) did. It took vastly more lead than the stock weights and made the ailerons substantially heavier than stock -- not just heavier in weight, but also heavier in feel. Maybe it was the loss of that counterweight spade sticking down in the wind to give some aerodynamic counterbalance, I don't know. And here is where my memory is a little hazy, but I believe he found in the end that such a balancing technique actually made his ailerons MORE prone to flutter. It was something about how they were balanced 100 percent, but all that lead changed the resonant frequency of the surface bringing it down to a lower speed than it would have been with a standard counterweight. The issue as I (dimly) recall it was total control surface weight, which is why WW-II fighters often used fabric-covered control surfaces, because they were lighter and more resistant to flutter. I just thought you'd want to know. Bob >NetHeads, > >I spent the day getting my rough wing tips into a little better shape, and >making aileron counterweights. As you can see at >http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/03011212m.jpg , >the counterweights are just 4130 tubes filled with lead. I heated up some >old tire weights in an old boiler on a hot plate 'til they melted, and >poured the lead down in the tubing and filled it from end to end. Epoxy and >lead shot would work too, but this was more efficient use of the volume. >I'd already calculated how many inches I'd need, based on weighing the >trailing edge while the aileron was free to pivot about the hinge point, and >summing moments. > >In the photo I'm in the process of sliding the counterweight into place, >where it will be epoxied full length. I kinda like this method because my >counterweight is uniformly distributed across the entire aileron, rather >than at just one point. Also, my counterweight is faired in about as good >as you can get it! Right now it's overbalanced, and after painting I can >easily adjust it by drilling out some lead from the end. > >This photo also shows the split flap (which will require a gap seal) and >makes it clear that I'll need some little fairings around my aileron hinges. >These are Frise ailerons, with a long nose to counteract adverse yaw, not >that there's anything wrong with the KR offset bellcrank method. > >The next task will be "healing" the edges of the aileron with carbon fiber >to cover up the bare foam and strengthen the aileron. Next I'll have to >make a clear streamlined cover for the nav/strobe lights on the wing tips. >Then it's primer/surfacer and I can paint the wings! > >If I were to make these ailerons again, I'd think I'd just use piano hinges, >and save myself a lot of trouble. Same goes for the flaps, but hinged at >the bottom. I have some amazing hindsight. > >The ailerons and flaps were both halfway constructed "in place", hinges and >all, and then cut out after the wing was laid up. I've often wondered why >you wouldn't want to do that when building the "stock" ailerons per plans. >Seems like it would save a lot of work. > >There are more details on my wing construction at >http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/owings.html . There's also a fair amount >of "how to fiberglass" info in there, for those who need that sort of thing. >After looking at this for a minute, I'm not sure if I'm a genius or a raving >lunatic! Maybe somewhere in between. It's definitely not "stock" though. >It's hard to believe it's been three years since I last worked on my wings. >2003 or bust... > > > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:15:27 -0600 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Photo of the week. Message-ID: <00e501c2bab2$0599b660$89541f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_00E2_01C2BA7F.BAC3C400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Updated with new photo today. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_00E2_01C2BA7F.BAC3C400-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 23:08:27 -0700 To: From: "Rick Hubka" Subject: RE: KR> Photo of the week. Message-ID: <000001c2baca$332d1d70$6601a8c0@hubka22> Hi Mark Glad to see a new picture up on your site. That fuselage hanging from the ceiling looks a awful lot like Dr. Dean's custom KR-2S boat. Is it? Rick Hubka rick@hubka.com http://www.hubka.com Calgary Alberta Canada -----Original Message----- From: Mark Jones [mailto:flykr2s@wi.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 8:15 PM To: KR-Net Subject: KR> Photo of the week. Updated with new photo today. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:30:05 -0600 To: From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> Re: CARB for Corvair or fuel injection Message-ID: <004c01c2babc$724ecca0$6601a8c0@Administration> I am going with computerized sequential fuel injection using the same components developed by GM/Ford and others and are on the engines sold today in the cars you buy. I believe they will be reliable. KRron ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 8:45 PM Subject: KR> Re: CARB for Corvair or fuel injection > 
Tim about your question about fuel injection on the corvair.  Two
major
> limitations of a carburetor are that the fuel-air mixture is not uniform
> among the cylinders, and carburetors are subject to the formation or ice.
The
> fuel injection systems used on modern aircraft engines are not direct
> injection systems, but are continuous-flow systems that deliver a low
> pressure continuous flow of fuel to nozzles installed in the intake valve
> chambers of the cylinders, just outside the valve. Fuel collects inside
the
> nozzle when the intake valve is closed, and when it opens, this fuel,
along
> with air from air bleed holes in the nozzle, is pulled into the cylinder.
> all of the fuel vaporizes and is mixed with the air from the induction
system
> to provide uniform fuel-air mixture to each cylinder.  Vaporization of the
> fuel takes place in the intake valve chamber where there is no possibility
of
> ice forming.  These systems are uncomplicated and efficient.  There are no
> computers, sensors or wiring involved.  I have not installed this type of
> injection system to a corvair engine, But if I were going to use fuel
> injection I would try to locate a Precision Airmotive RSA fuel injection
> system or a Teledine-continental fuel injection system because of their
> simplicity and reliability after you see the cost you may want to find a
good
> carburetor.   Good luck  anything else contact me at carrottop104@aol.com
> Larry
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"
>
> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org
>
> See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:07:17 +0200
To: 
From: "Serge Vidal" 
Subject: Polyester or Epoxy?
Message-ID: <000001c2bada$fe51dd50$e100a8c0@sergevidal12>

Is there an easy way to tell whether fiberglass has been bonded with
polyester resin or Epoxy resin?

Serge Vidal
KR2 ZS-WEC
Johannesburg, South Africa

------------------------------

End of krnet Digest
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