From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 7 Feb 2003 01:17:53 -0000 Issue 625 Date: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:18 PM krnet Digest 7 Feb 2003 01:17:53 -0000 Issue 625 Topics (messages 14953 through 14982): KR2 official date 14953 by: Oscar Zuniga Re: Pylwood, me and things 14954 by: Justin 14955 by: AviationMech.aol.com Re: A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? 14956 by: Al Friesen 14957 by: wstarrs 14959 by: David McKelvey 14961 by: Louis Staalberg Re: Ken Rand KR turbo 14958 by: chris gardiner 14967 by: Ed Janssen Web Page Update 14960 by: Mark Jones 14965 by: Dan Heath 14966 by: Dana Overall Re: scarf joints] 14962 by: Brian Kraut 14963 by: Brian Kraut Who's you? 14964 by: Frank Ross Lights, Strobes and cheap shortcuts 14968 by: AviationMech.aol.com 14980 by: Mark Jones 14981 by: ROBERT COOPER 14982 by: Sutstoy.aol.com Re: vert. stabilizer strength 14969 by: Stephen J Robinson Re: Lights, Strobes and CLEVER shortcuts 14970 by: Serge Vidal sanding scarf joints. 14971 by: harold woods 14972 by: gleone 14973 by: norm-ruth 14974 by: Paul Gangemi 14975 by: Bill Higdon Re: am I a pilot? 14976 by: Mark Langford 14977 by: Dana Overall 14978 by: Mark Langford re plywood, cheap plywood, etc 14979 by: Chris Giesel Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 09:27:25 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR2 official date Message-ID: Howdy, folks; According to the literature on Rand-Robinson's website, the KR1 was designed by Ken Rand in 1972, making the design 30 years old as of 2002. Does anyone know when the KR2 was officially designed or released? There is method to my madness; bear with me... (PS- anyone who has Jeanette Rand's or R-R's webmaster's ear, note that the http://www.fly-kr.com website still lists the KR Newsletter as being available through Larry Capps). Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 09:57:48 -0600 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Justin Subject: Re: KR> Pylwood, me and things Message-ID: <3E41347C.2030805@socal.rr.com> So what happend with the Birch plywood on the boat. It tested far better in the boiling water test than mahogany did but that boiling water test doesnt say it all im sure. Justin AviationMech@aol.com wrote: >I have not read my mail in a few days and was surprised to see my name. So, >from the horse's mouth. Any consideration of plywood should include the >following. The type of wood used in construction, the type of glue used in >manufacturing, the orientation of the wood ply, the thickness of the ply, and >the number of ply. Add all of this up and it equal strength if the correct >material is used. This is why certified plywood is so expensive. Some >marine plywood might be acceptable, However I recommend that we all support >the KR family and buy from Jeanette Rand. I was amazed that about 10 years >ago someone built and flew a KR for $1500. Every now and then someone try's >to use inferior material. It may fly, but will it be the SAFEST for the >occupant. Caution!!! Some locally available plywood's use garbage wood for >the filler ply and the glue melts in water. When I'm at 5,000MSL and the air >gets rough and the KR with its light wing loading is bumping thorough the >air, I don't want to imagine I am leaving a debris trail. >PS Scott got a nice project. PS2 MY boat is Mahogany, the birch ply is on a >boat that I have stored and watched weather for 10 years. (FOR SALE) > > >AviationMech >KR-2 N110LR >1984 to Present >www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech >AP with IA >Retired AF >EAA # >Prior Instructor at AP School >Usually FOS0219561 > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:19:30 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Pylwood, me and things Message-ID: <102.25adf2ad.2b72cbd2@aol.com> --part1_102.25adf2ad.2b72cbd2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/05/2003 1:42:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, jmw116@socal.rr.com writes: > So what happened with the Birch plywood on the boat By boat, I meant boat stage KR-2. It is slightly stained from exposure to the outside elements, but has shown no signs of deterioration. --part1_102.25adf2ad.2b72cbd2_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 17:16:32 -0800 To: , From: "Al Friesen" Subject: Re: KR> A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? Message-ID: <000001c2cd77$8edf5b00$90cb6cce@s8z8i0> Serge, I used a Radio Shack strobe but used a small baby food jar outside of the fuse epoxied into a hole into the fuse to hold it in place. I think the strobe is a bit less intense than I would like but it will do. Al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:25:24 -0700 To: From: "wstarrs" Subject: Re: KR> A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? Message-ID: <001701c2cd7e$a03caea0$9200a8c0@bstarrs> Al, do you have a picture or diagram of the set up? Bill starrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Friesen" To: ; Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 6:16 PM Subject: Re: KR> A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? > Serge, > I used a Radio Shack strobe but used a small baby food jar outside of the > fuse epoxied into a hole into the fuse to hold it in place. I think the > strobe is a bit less intense than I would like but it will do. Al > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:50:44 -0600 To: From: "David McKelvey" Subject: RE: KR> A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? Message-ID: J.C. Whitney has a couple rated at 100,000 candles and 2 (I think)flashes /sec and are ready to mount for about the same price. Worth looking into. Dave Grapevine TX -----Original Message----- From: wstarrs [mailto:wstarrs@netzero.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:25 PM To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? Al, do you have a picture or diagram of the set up? Bill starrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Friesen" To: ; Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 6:16 PM Subject: Re: KR> A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? > Serge, > I used a Radio Shack strobe but used a small baby food jar outside of the > fuse epoxied into a hole into the fuse to hold it in place. I think the > strobe is a bit less intense than I would like but it will do. Al > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 19:57:05 -0700 To: From: "Louis Staalberg" Subject: Re: KR> A $13 strobe light, how does that sound? Message-ID: <001501c2cd8b$8809ff60$0200a8c6@toshiba> All Electronics Corp., www.allelectronics.com, 1-800-826-5432 has in their Winter 2003 catalog #103 a strobe kit for $7.50. It is Cat#strobe-1 (page 84) Anybody who can heat up a soldering iron should be able to assemble that one. Good Luck, Louis Louis Staalberg N9FL@cybertrails.com Payson, Arizona ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:44:50 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: chris gardiner Subject: Re: KR> Ken Rand KR turbo Message-ID: <3E41BE12.90409@attcanada.ca> Well, I guess that settles that ! I was also going to suggest that it was a Ray Jay type as they were popular back in the 70's and 80's .but Bob Stone confirmed it. On a similar subject, I just lucked into a copy of March 1975 Sport Aviation from one of our older chapter members who was cleaning out his attic. And who is the feature cover article ....Wicks KR2 and it has a big article on Ken Rand's KR2 N4KR.inside . What a fantastic find for a KR fanatic ! Interesting reading 30 years after the fact , to see how dreams come true . I'll bring it to next years KR Gathering for all to read ! Cheers Chris Gardiner C-GKRZ Robert Stone wrote: >The turbocharger Ken Rand used on his KR-2 was purchased at RayJay >turbochargers in Long Beach, California. I know this for a fact because I >was with him when he bought it. > >Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX >rstone4@hot.rr.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Alexandre Mater" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:38 PM >Subject: KR> Ken Rand KR turbo > > >Hello, > > Which does anybody know the model or turbocharging type that Ken Rand used >in his KR that was published in April 1976 in the sportplane magazine? > >Thanks > > >Alexandre Mater >Brazil > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 07:31:32 -0600 To: , From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR> Ken Rand KR turbo Message-ID: <002401c2cde4$10409260$0200a8c0@dad> Chris, Your "find" has already been found - quite some time ago. This is a reminder to the list, particularly to the new guys, that Don Reid has already done some great historical work on the KR. Check it out at the address below. The article you are referring to (and many others) about the KR are listed on one of Don's web pages. http://users.erols.com/donreid/sportaviation/kr_SA.htm Ed Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "chris gardiner" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:44 PM Subject: Re: KR> Ken Rand KR turbo > Well, I guess that settles that ! > > I was also going to suggest that it was a Ray Jay type as they were > popular back in the 70's and 80's .but Bob Stone confirmed it. > > On a similar subject, I just lucked into a copy of March 1975 Sport > Aviation from one of our older chapter members who was cleaning out his > attic. > And who is the feature cover article ....Wicks KR2 and it has a big > article on Ken Rand's KR2 N4KR.inside . > > What a fantastic find for a KR fanatic ! > > Interesting reading 30 years after the fact , to see how dreams come true . > > I'll bring it to next years KR Gathering for all to read ! > > Cheers > > Chris Gardiner > C-GKRZ > > > > > Robert Stone wrote: > > >The turbocharger Ken Rand used on his KR-2 was purchased at RayJay > >turbochargers in Long Beach, California. I know this for a fact because I > >was with him when he bought it. > > > >Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX > >rstone4@hot.rr.com > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Alexandre Mater" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:38 PM > >Subject: KR> Ken Rand KR turbo > > > > > >Hello, > > > > Which does anybody know the model or turbocharging type that Ken Rand used > >in his KR that was published in April 1976 in the sportplane magazine? > > > >Thanks > > > > > >Alexandre Mater > >Brazil > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 20:58:58 -0600 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Web Page Update Message-ID: <006f01c2cd8b$b1de9da0$cc561f41@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C2CD59.6708AB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Billy McFarland sent me some photos to add to his page. He sure does = have a nice looking bird. Here is the link. = http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/BillyMcFarland.html Thanks Billy for the new photos. Is that your daughter?=20 Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_006C_01C2CD59.6708AB40-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 05:29:09 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Web Page Update Message-Id: <3E426325.000014.00396@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_LS2W36E1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Billy,=0D =0D Nice KR2. What did you use for your canopy glass?=0D =0D Also, is that a homebuilt in the hangar behind your plane in the last picture on Mark's site? What model is it?=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 06:58:29 PM=0D To: KR-Net=0D Subject: KR> Web Page Update=0D =0D Billy McFarland sent me some photos to add to his page. He sure does have= a nice looking bird. Here is the link. http://mywebpage.netscape com/n886mj/BillyMcFarland.html=0D Thanks Billy for the new photos. Is that your daughter? =0D =0D Mark Jones (N886MJ)=0D Wales, WI USA =0D E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com=0D Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =0D http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html --------------Boundary-00=_LS2W36E1VA4000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 07:06:39 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> Web Page Update Message-ID: Daniel, that is a Pulsar in the bottom picture. Usually powered by a Rotax. Looks sleak, have flown one and is a little bit of a lazy flier. Dana Overall Richmond, KY http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive >From: "Dan Heath" glass? > >Also, is that a homebuilt in the hangar behind your plane in the last >picture on Mark's site? What model is it? > _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:37:35 -0500 To: krnet From: Brian Kraut Subject: [Fwd: Re: KR> scarf joints] Message-ID: <3E41D87F.2080600@earthlink.net> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: KR> scarf joints Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:02:23 -0500 From: "Chris Giesel" To: engalt@earthlink.net sorry, meant to send last email to group, i'm new at this. could you forward previous msg to group, hotmail doesn't save a copy. sorry, chris giesel >From: Brian Kraut >Reply-To: engalt@earthlink.net >To: KRnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> scarf joints >Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 23:39:56 -0500 > >The reason has to do with the fine sawdust getting into the pores of the >wood and clogging them so the glue can't get in. You are supposed to cut >wood that gets glued, not sand it. I sent a post regarding this and I >think I cited the AC 43.13 sections a while back. I am too tired to look >it up now, but you can probably find it in the archives or look in the >43.13. > >Chris Giesel wrote: > >> >>Hi Gang, >> >>I was in Alaska last year and visited the bush pilot museum located near >>the Anchorage airport. This is one of the most interesting museums I have >>been in. It has a collection of wrecked bush planes--many of historical >>significance--that have been, or are in the process of being, restored. >> >>This brings me to my point. We met the guy who was in charge of restoring >>these birds and got on the subject of scarf (ph?) joints. He stated that >>wehn he was training for a&p cert. in the 1940's THE SANDING OF SCARF >>JOINTS WAS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. >> >> >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" >> >>To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional >>commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> >>See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >>or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files >> >> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional >commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:39:22 -0500 To: krnet From: Brian Kraut Subject: [Fwd: Re: KR> scarf joints] Message-ID: <3E41D8EA.1070306@earthlink.net> Oops, forwarded the message asking me to forward, not the message I was asked to forward. Or something like that. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: KR> scarf joints Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:00:26 -0500 From: "Chris Giesel" To: engalt@earthlink.net Correct.(not sure of the reg#) With this in mind, how did sanded joints get into the procedural vocabulary of home builders and eaa literature? I realize that the e stands for experimental, but a lot of research was conducted to find joining methods that provide optimal performance. Builders of wooden boats use a hand held electric plane to cut the joints. A tool such as the portable sanded scarf jointer used by many builders could be made using the electric plane. Thanks, Chris >From: Brian Kraut >Reply-To: engalt@earthlink.net >To: KRnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> scarf joints >Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 23:39:56 -0500 > >The reason has to do with the fine sawdust getting into the pores of the >wood and clogging them so the glue can't get in. You are supposed to cut >wood that gets glued, not sand it. I sent a post regarding this and I >think I cited the AC 43.13 sections a while back. I am too tired to look >it up now, but you can probably find it in the archives or look in the >43.13. > >Chris Giesel wrote: > >> >>Hi Gang, >> >>I was in Alaska last year and visited the bush pilot museum located near >>the Anchorage airport. This is one of the most interesting museums I have >>been in. It has a collection of wrecked bush planes--many of historical >>significance--that have been, or are in the process of being, restored. >> >>This brings me to my point. We met the guy who was in charge of restoring >>these birds and got on the subject of scarf (ph?) joints. He stated that >>wehn he was training for a&p cert. in the 1940's THE SANDING OF SCARF >>JOINTS WAS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN. >> >> >> >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" >> >>To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional >>commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> >>See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >>or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files >> >> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional >commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 21:02:09 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Who's you? Message-ID: <20030206050209.61503.qmail@web40903.mail.yahoo.com> Now that you mention it, just what is your name? It is not anyplace in your note that I can see. Thanks Frank Ross in San Antonio, TX --- AviationMech@aol.com wrote: > I have not read my mail in a few days and was > surprised to see my name. So, > from the horse's mouth. Any consideration of > plywood should include the > following. The type of wood used in construction, > the type of glue used in > manufacturing, the orientation of the wood ply, the > thickness of the ply, and > the number of ply. Add all of this up and it equal > strength if the correct > material is used. This is why certified plywood is > so expensive. Some > marine plywood might be acceptable, However I > recommend that we all support > the KR family and buy from Jeanette Rand. I was > amazed that about 10 years > ago someone built and flew a KR for $1500. Every > now and then someone try's > to use inferior material. It may fly, but will it > be the SAFEST for the > occupant. Caution!!! Some locally available > plywood's use garbage wood for > the filler ply and the glue melts in water. When > I'm at 5,000MSL and the air > gets rough and the KR with its light wing loading is > bumping thorough the > air, I don't want to imagine I am leaving a debris > trail. > PS Scott got a nice project. PS2 MY boat is > Mahogany, the birch ply is on a > boat that I have stored and watched weather for 10 > years. (FOR SALE) > > > AviationMech > KR-2 N110LR > 1984 to Present > HREF="www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech">www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech > AP with IA > Retired AF > EAA # > Prior Instructor at AP School > Usually FOS0219561 > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:21:27 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Lights, Strobes and cheap shortcuts Message-ID: <93.2a259b7a.2b73c967@aol.com> --part1_93.2a259b7a.2b73c967_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . The financially inviting thought of a strobe light for 13 dollars is real tempting. I urge you to consider this first. Knowing in most cases that we are building Experimental day VFR craft, that don't require lights, why bother to spend lots of bucks for an approved lighting system. Have you ever driven up on the back of bicycle that had the little flasher strobes on the rear finder, and then had the thought that you were glad you didn't hit the bike. Well on some of our "VFR" days, it can be so hazy that you can't really see. What if your slick KR, cruising at 150KTS was heading for a Piper Arrow doing 130 KTS, or a closing speed of 280 kts and all you have to let that guy see you is a 13$ dim strobe from the Shack. I'll bet you'll wish you had paid as little as $150 to get a real strobe with acceptable candlepower in the flash. If you're going to put lights on the bird, get real. The KR is hard to see because it is little, and when it is seen, most controllers and pilots think it is far away, because of its little size. They always underestimate its speed. I say see and be seen. Aviationmech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to present --part1_93.2a259b7a.2b73c967_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 17:15:08 -0600 To: From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Lights, Strobes and cheap shortcuts Message-ID: <000c01c2ce35$97470e00$cc561f41@wi.rr.com> I have to totally agree on the strobe issue. Use the real thing...it can be done very inexpensively....I have a Whelen four head system which I paid $131.00. I got the power unit on eBay and the tubes from Talbot Lighting Supply http://www.strobesupply.com/default.asp . I will have a strobe on each wing tip, one on top of the fuselage and one on the bottom. This system lights up the neighborhood and my kids think it is way too cool when I turn it on. I will also have running lights, red and green on the wing tips and white on the back of the rudder. For the running lights, I am using LED lights. The LED lights are replacement type lamps for the standard 1157 auto bulb. These LED lights are extremely bright and also look very sleek. They can be had on eBay also....just do a search under 1157 green....1157 red.... 1157 white. I will be seen and when I arrive at a gathering you will know it is me. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:21 AM Subject: KR> Lights, Strobes and cheap shortcuts > . The financially inviting thought of a strobe light for 13 dollars is real > tempting. I urge you to consider this first. Knowing in most cases that we > are building Experimental day VFR craft, that don't require lights, why > bother to spend lots of bucks for an approved lighting system. Have you ever > driven up on the back of bicycle that had the little flasher strobes on the > rear finder, and then had the thought that you were glad you didn't hit the > bike. Well on some of our "VFR" days, it can be so hazy that you can't > really see. What if your slick KR, cruising at 150KTS was heading for a > Piper Arrow doing 130 KTS, or a closing speed of 280 kts and all you have to > let that guy see you is a 13$ dim strobe from the Shack. I'll bet you'll > wish you had paid as little as $150 to get a real strobe with acceptable > candlepower in the flash. If you're going to put lights on the bird, get > real. > The KR is hard to see because it is little, and when it is seen, most > controllers and pilots think it is far away, because of its little size. > They always underestimate its speed. I say see and be seen. > > Aviationmech > KR-2 N110LR > 1984 to present > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:56:43 -0500 To: From: "ROBERT COOPER" Subject: Re: KR> Lights, Strobes and cheap shortcuts Message-ID: I was in Advance Auto a few days ago and saw a two light strobe kit with a variable rate flasher for $14.95. I looked for some information on candle power but it was not mentioned. There was no lense covers but each light was fitted with a gromet for inserting into a 5/8" hole. This might be a source for a inexpensive strobe. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2 Fayetteville, NC. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 20:18:18 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Sutstoy@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Lights, Strobes and cheap shortcuts Message-ID: <103.264806eb.2b74635a@aol.com> --part1_103.264806eb.2b74635a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you do use one of these cheap strobes get in touch with your local model plane club. One of them may have a "Vacuform". It's a vacuum molding machine. With the machine you can make the lens to cover the strobe. Aloha Joe :>}) --part1_103.264806eb.2b74635a_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:55:59 -0500 To: langford@hiwaay.net From: Stephen J Robinson Cc: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> vert. stabilizer strength Message-ID: <20030206.112947.-256559.4.sjrobinson2@juno.com> Hi Mark, I've really appreciated all of your insites into the building the the KR-1/2/2S over the years. I started my own project, using many of your valuable ideas, as I go, just over a year ago. I plan to make conributions to the KRNet once I'm far enough along to provide some useful info and photos to be of interest to others. Question, I'm pilot and used to build model airplanes and compete with them in the midwest, as a young boy. Found out that here were two types of people involved, builders and flyers. We had both in our family (Dad and four boys). Since then, I've gone on, spent 30+ years in the U.S.A.F., working in tactical application of air power. So I consider myself more of a "operator", than a builder. But I still respect and consider the "builders" as critical. Very rare to meet someone who can be both. You are obviously a "builder" beyond comparison. Do you fly? I'd like to know. Not to besmirch you nor detract from your reputation and most noteworthy contributions, but to clarify your background. Please fill in that portion of your background and allow the rest of us to understand and appreciate the total "Mark", OK? Steve Robinson On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:53:25 -0600 "Mark Langford" writes: > Rick Wilson wrote: > > > Hi all, Can anyone tell me if the vertical stab is > > strong enough to support a KR2 while it is upside > > down, or is additional support necessary? Thanks, Rick > > Yep, I've had mine upside down sitting on the tail for probably a > total of 3 > months altogether, done on several separate occasions. Troy > Petteway did > the same. Eventually I developed a little ripple in very top of the > leading > edge (that's where all of the load was concentrated) and punched the > plywood > rib down just a tad, but the easy way around that is set it on a > piece of 2 > inch foam to distribute the load (Troy taught me that one). When I > repaired > the little ripple, I did it with carbon fiber, but you wouldn't want > to > carbon fiber your whole tail if your antenna is in there. > > I've recently made a little "tail cart" comprised of a piece of 2x8 > about 12 > inches long with four little rollers stuck to the underside. I duct > taped > the top of the vertical stab with a piece of 1/4" rubber on top, put > a big > pile of flox on the cart, and flipped the plane over on it to cure. > I now > have an easy way to wheel the thing around when it's upside down, > combined > with the "flip-o-matic". Oh, I just found a picture. It's at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/02111746m.jpg . > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply > all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 18:27:01 +0200 To: From: "Serge Vidal" Subject: RE: KR> Lights, Strobes and CLEVER shortcuts Message-ID: <001701c2cdfd$57d34a00$e100a8c0@sergevidal12> One thing to understand: "Certified" means "Expensive", but "Certified" does not always mean "Good". More exactly, most of the time, what is now certified was state of the art technology...50 years ago, when it was designed! I am not impressed at all by the candlepower of the 50 years old strobes fitted in the Cessnas and Pipers at my local airfield. And from a few tests I did, I can tell you that my $13 homebuilt strobe compares favourably with them in terms of candlepower. Also, the reliability of my unit is probably 100 times better. Why is that? Because I use 1990es technology, instead of 1940es technology. Vacuum in tubes manufacturing has improved since, and electronic components are better, smaller, cheaper, more reliable. This is the same reason why I use dual electronic ignition instead of magnetos: if cars have stopped using them since 1930, well, there must be some reasons. Look at a current general aviation production aircraft. It is full of fully certified items, that would never find their way in a car, for lack of performance or safety. You end up paying $ 150 000 plus, for a vehicle that does not have reel seat belts, let alone airbags, does not have ABS brakes, nor tinted, shatterproof windows, has a landing light that lasts 50 hours... the list is endless. After all we build KR2s to get performance and value for money that the "certified" birds can only dream of! Right, time to dig a trench quickly! Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Johannesburg, South Africa -----Original Message----- From: AviationMech@aol.com [mailto:AviationMech@aol.com] Sent: 06 February 2003 16:21 To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> Lights, Strobes and cheap shortcuts . The financially inviting thought of a strobe light for 13 dollars is real tempting. I urge you to consider this first. Knowing in most cases that we are building Experimental day VFR craft, that don't require lights, why bother to spend lots of bucks for an approved lighting system. Have you ever driven up on the back of bicycle that had the little flasher strobes on the rear finder, and then had the thought that you were glad you didn't hit the bike. Well on some of our "VFR" days, it can be so hazy that you can't really see. What if your slick KR, cruising at 150KTS was heading for a Piper Arrow doing 130 KTS, or a closing speed of 280 kts and all you have to let that guy see you is a 13$ dim strobe from the Shack. I'll bet you'll wish you had paid as little as $150 to get a real strobe with acceptable candlepower in the flash. If you're going to put lights on the bird, get real. The KR is hard to see because it is little, and when it is seen, most controllers and pilots think it is far away, because of its little size. They always underestimate its speed. I say see and be seen. Aviationmech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to present ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 12:09:11 -0500 To: From: "harold woods" Subject: sanding scarf joints. Message-ID: <007b01c2ce02$77e75160$03000004@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C2CDD8.8ED5C700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have read that type of literature. They say that the sanding closes = off the tubeules in the wood so the glue cannot enter. It is necessary = to scrape or shave off the top of the sanded surface before adding the = glue. That was back in the 1940 s there was no epoxy there then. I = suggest that a good sanded scarf with a good epoxy glue makes an = excellent scarf. Harold Woods Orillia, ON. Canada. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01C2CDD8.8ED5C700-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 10:25:58 -0600 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: gleone Subject: Re: KR> sanding scarf joints. Message-ID: <3E428C96.F7FA432E@tritel.net> --------------6E4829B295CFE194EF4282A5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Years ago, when I was younger and stupid, I used to jump out of perfectly good airplanes for "fun". And as a PRCA Bronc Rider, I even rode a bull once: Just once. After 167 jumps as a skydiver, I woke up one morning, looked in the mirror and said, "Good morning, brain! Welcome home!" I know that if I had to, I could bail from plane in a heart beat. But do I really WANT to put myself in that position? True, the 1940's were "pre-epoxy" years. And, when I was joining the only other two things to fall from the sky, namely bird s*** and other fools, I always packed my own chute. For that same reason, it doesn't take all that much work to take the time to shave the tops of the sanded surfaces. I say this because I really don't want to rain body parts and debris all over the Big Horn Basin here in Wyoming. My two pennies worth but another near death experience is not really why I'm building my KR-1 to plans: plans that call for shaving off the top of the sanded surfaces before adding the glue. I'll crawl back in my foxhole, now! ;) Gene harold woods wrote: > I have read that type of literature. They say that the sanding closes off the tubeules in the wood so the glue cannot enter. It is necessary to scrape or shave off the top of the sanded surface before adding the glue. That was back in the 1940 s there was no epoxy there then. I suggest that a good sanded scarf with a good epoxy glue makes an excellent scarf. > Harold Woods > Orillia, ON. > Canada. > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 --------------6E4829B295CFE194EF4282A5-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:41:10 -0800 To: "krnet" From: "norm-ruth" Subject: Fw: KR> sanding scarf joints. Message-ID: <001501c2ce30$d9cc6b80$7bcbd03f@pavilion> It is interesting that this would be argued. There are kits available for making scarf joints, and they do it by sanding. And over the years I have read articles in SA, and they all do it by sanding by various means. Also, I'm sure I read an article by Tony Bingelis in SA that said that with Epoxies sanding would not degrade a joint. Norm norm-ruth@prodigy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "harold woods" To: Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:09 AM Subject: KR> sanding scarf joints. I have read that type of literature. They say that the sanding closes off the tubeules in the wood so the glue cannot enter. It is necessary to scrape or shave off the top of the sanded surface before adding the glue. That was back in the 1940 s there was no epoxy there then. I suggest that a good sanded scarf with a good epoxy glue makes an excellent scarf. Harold Woods Orillia, ON. Canada. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:49:02 -0500 (EST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: paulwasp@webtv.net (Paul Gangemi) Subject: Re: Fw: KR> sanding scarf joints. Message-ID: <28470-3E42BC2E-1954@storefull-2196.public.lawson.webtv.net> I believe with epoxy, all you need to do is blow the dust off the surfaces of the scarf joints. PLG http://community.webtv.net/paulwasp/paulwaspspad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 11:50:30 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Bill Higdon Subject: Re: Fw: KR> sanding scarf joints. Message-ID: <3E42BC86.3050802@attbi.com> My "old" and out of print wood handbook from EAA (second printing of the first one) talks about this. If I can find some place to put the file, I'll scan and post it. It says that early advice was "not to sand" this was before the synthetic abrasives like silicon carbide & aluminum oxide. Bill Higdon norm-ruth wrote: > It is interesting that this would be argued. There are kits available for > making scarf joints, and they do it by sanding. And over the years I have > read articles in SA, and they all do it by sanding by various means. Also, > I'm sure I read an article by Tony Bingelis in SA that said that with > Epoxies sanding would not degrade a joint. > > Norm norm-ruth@prodigy.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "harold woods" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:09 AM > Subject: KR> sanding scarf joints. > > > I have read that type of literature. They say that the sanding closes off > the tubeules in the wood so the glue cannot enter. It is necessary to scrape > or shave off the top of the sanded surface before adding the glue. That was > back in the 1940 s there was no epoxy there then. I suggest that a good > sanded scarf with a good epoxy glue makes an excellent scarf. > Harold Woods > Orillia, ON. > Canada. >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 14:12:14 -0600 To: "KRnet" From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>am I a pilot? Message-ID: <011901c2ce1c$0b9b04b0$0802a8c0@TD310> Steve Robinson wrote: > ...Do you fly? I'd like to > know. Not to besmirch you nor detract from your reputation and most > noteworthy contributions, but to clarify your background. Yes, I have a pilot's license, but only about 130 hours of left seat time. That doesn't make me much of a pilot, but I think all the reading and research I've done over the years have given me a pretty good grasp of what it's all about. I started flying at age 15, and it was then that I decided to build the "new" KR2. But like a lot of folks, I couldn't even afford that for a few more years on my USAF salary, and especially while working my way through college. When I got my first real job I decided it was time to get my license, because I knew that when I started building a plane, the first question people would ask is "oh, so you're a pilot?" I couldn't stand the thought of saying "well no, but I'm sure I'll get my license some day", so I just went ahead and got it. I really wish I'd have just waited, because now I'm pretty rusty at it, and I'll probably have to do 20 hours to get back to where I was, but at least it'll be taildragger time this time around. I started putting 50 bucks a month into the "fuselage fund" using direct deposit from my paycheck, and before I knew it, I had a pile of wood to work with. And when I finished the fuselage, I had enough in the fund to buy landing gear, and by then I could afford to put $200 a month into it, and everything else just fell into place from there. When I get finished I'll take a "crash course" of taildragger training, then a little KR familiarization with a real-live KR pilot, and then fly my own. Shortly thereafter, I will be a "real KR pilot", as I plan to fly a lot, not just own a hangar queen. I made a conscious decision about 8 years ago to quit flying until my plane was finished, because I thought at the time that would only be 2 or 3 years. It was costing me $60 an hour to rent a 172, and in order to do the recommended 40 hours per year to stay proficient, I decided to put that $2400 a year into MY airplane, rather than renting somebody else's, and when I finished building my plane, I'd OWN the thing myself! Another factor was getting into a different airplane every time, and wondering how to make this or that work, or having this or that inoperable, etc. It seemed to me that renting was actually a safety hazard. That's probably more than you wanted to know, but the short answer is yes, even if just barely, so I don't have to look like a fool and say "well no, but I'm sure some day I'll be a pilot". If I had it to do over again, I'd buy somebody else's flying KR1 or KR2 and fly it until my plane was finished, and then sell it for what I had in it. I know you're wondering how I can spend a half an hour writing an email message on company time, but I took the afternoon off to work on the plane... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 15:51:05 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR>am I a pilot? Message-ID: I'll have you know I sat in the rear seat of Doug Steen's Bonanza when we flew back from SNF. Mark was in the left seat and Doug was in the right. Keep in mind this is a throwover yoke airplane with CS speed prop and retracts. I will have to say, he's pretty good for an ol rusty pilot. I was in the back seat looking at trade-a-plane looking for the Bonanza I eventually bought:-) Dana Overall Richmond, KY 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 15:23:06 -0600 To: From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>am I a pilot? Message-ID: <012401c2ce25$f30c5a20$0802a8c0@TD310> Dana wrote: > I'll have you know I sat in the rear seat of Doug Steen's Bonanza when we > flew back from SNF. Mark was in the left seat and Doug was in the right. > Keep in mind this is a throwover yoke airplane with CS speed prop and > retracts. I will have to say, he's pretty good for an ol rusty pilot. Yep, that wasn't too bad, but Dana left off the part about me trying to run it into the runway when landing. Fortunately Doug saved the day by leaning over and pulling back on the yoke just before we would have hit and driven the gear up through the wings! Doug dismissed it as me flying a "typical Cessna non-flare" per my training, but I'm not so sure about that. Back to welding up my new dual stick design... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama mailto:langford@hiwaay.net see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 16:24:58 -0500 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Chris Giesel" Subject: re plywood, cheap plywood, etc Message-ID: The voices of reason are right on the ball in this case. Wood happens to be one of the oldest construction matereals around and as such has a long history of research and experimentation. The author of the 'plywood and me' post has most accurately described one of the most important considerations of wood choice: The void free and ininterrupted nature of the core of aircraft and to a lesser extent marine grade plywood. Your strength comes from all of the plys acting as a composite unit distributing stresses through the piece. A void or voids in the wood (there is almost always one in cheap hardware store plywood ) means an interruption in the stress distribution, resulting in areas of unnecessary high stress. This is where failure can occur. The adhesive used is also important as it keeps the plies from moving around. It is similar to the way epoxe resin turns otherwise flexible, weak fiberglass cloth into a rigid structure that can support a person, wing etc. If the adhesive dissolves or becomes soft your plywood will begin to move and tear itself apart. And that is my 3.5 cents worth. Thanks, Chris _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************