From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 12 Feb 2003 01:27:04 -0000 Issue 630 Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 5:28 PM krnet Digest 12 Feb 2003 01:27:04 -0000 Issue 630 Topics (messages 15090 through 15114): Re: kr flight training( need help.) 15090 by: Jim Faughn 15096 by: Dana Overall Re: I learned about flying from that 15091 by: Brian Kraut Flight training 15092 by: AviationMech.aol.com 15095 by: Dan Heath 15097 by: virgnvs.juno.com 15105 by: AviationMech.aol.com Re: LED nav lights and low power strobe 15093 by: Brian Kraut filling fluid lines 15094 by: Larry H epoxy setting speed. 15098 by: harold woods 15099 by: Ron Freiberger LOM inline engine 15100 by: Oscar Zuniga 15102 by: V. P. Winglets 15101 by: larry severson 15104 by: Fran Giroux 15106 by: larry severson 15108 by: gleone 15109 by: Frank Dungan 15110 by: Frank Dungan 15112 by: Dan Heath 15114 by: Frank Ross fuselage sides/skin 15103 by: Oscar Zuniga elevator trim 15107 by: larry severson 15111 by: Dan Heath 15113 by: AviationMech.aol.com Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:27:56 -0600 To: "KR Net Response" From: "Jim Faughn" Subject: Re: KR> kr flight training( need help.) Message-ID: <000001c2d175$30ab32a0$33466ad8@jfaughn> Hi. Someone knew I would have to weigh in. I get the digest and saw everything from RV's to Marti's plane and the responsiveness of the plane. I want to keep this simple. You can find my article on how to land the KR on the net so I won't repeat it. I have a KR that is set up so that when I am in the plane solo and full fuel, it is at the front of the CG range. That characteristic along with the fact that I have NEVER taken a person on a ride and had them take the stick with the airspeed above 120 mph has resulted in everyone being able to fly my plane in a short period of time. Two important points, weight and balance forward and slow! Once they got the feel for it, and the main reason they didn't have the feel to begin with was they were too tense and you could see that in their arm being so tight they were splitting out their shirt, they loosened up with some calm words and picked out a spot and they could fly it. Sure in a turn one way you have to pull back a bit and the other way you have to point down a bit, just like the spam cans only backwards because the VW turns the "right" or should I say the opposite way. The other problem people have is that they haven't flown ANY plane for 5 years or so. Ok, so get some time in a few other planes. Bottom line is, if the plane is built right, CG is forward, you have current time in planes, you get a ride in a KR, and you go slow then you will probably be ok. But you know, I'm not an instructor, I'm just a guy that has one and transitions people into safe KR flyers. The hardest part of flying the KR isn't flying it, it is landing it. And the hardest part of landing a KR is patience. You have to have the right speeds and you have to wait for it to come through the ground effect. The article explains it. By the way. Can't wait for the warmer weather to go fly my KR. I've been running it on the ground over the winter and it sure runs good now with the new ignition and timing set right. Take care and be careful. Jim Jim Faughn 4323D Laclede Ave. St. Louis, MO 63108 (314)652-7659 Mailto:jfaughn@mvp.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 07:20:18 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> kr flight training( need help.) Message-ID: I know this isn't KR related so bear with me. The RV ride program only requires you to be current with a BFR and if you are wanting the fly the tailwheel RV-6, that you have a tailwheel endorsement. I would think anyone wanting to familiarize themselves with a KR taildragger to at least be current in something else and know what a tailwheel is. I could imagine "getting current" in a KR. With the RV program all you have to be is current. They just avail themselves to builders so that when the builder flies his RV, there won't be any surprises. I know it's not possible, but if were king for a day I would have this for all kitplanes:-) Dana Overall Richmond, KY http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive >From: "Dan Heath" >Reply-To: KRnet@mailinglists.org >To: >Subject: Re: KR> kr flight training( need help.) >Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 20:09:13 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) > >Dana, > >I certainly do not disagree and wouldn't it be great if our KR people had >the same advantage. Our EAA member who finished her RV went, came back and >flew. I think it is great. > >However, read the requirements for acceptance to this school. First off, >you must be transitioning to an RV. Second, you must practically be an >expert pilot with Tailwheel time if you are going for RV tailwheel. > >Sounds pretty tough just to get in. > >You are correct, a ride is not stick time, but it might give you an idea of >what you will have to face when the time comes. > >N64KR > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > >DanRH@KR-Builder.org > >See you in Red Oak - 2003 > >See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic >See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > >-------Original Message------- > >From: KRnet@mailinglists.org >Date: Monday, February 10, 2003 04:01:11 AM >To: KRnet@mailinglists.org >Subject: Re: KR> kr flight training( need help.) > >What Van's has doon with the RV training is allow a person who has >completed, or nearing completion on an RV, to sch. time with Mike in a 6 or >6A to get your transition training so that you feel comfortable to test fly >your own. It is not flight training, it is RV familiarity. Dan, once again >I'm not arguing, but a simple ride in a KR at the gathering probably will >not be enough stick time for one to feel comfortable in the KR. Look again >at the RV website and see just what Mike puts you through. I have flown >with Mike and he is as tough of an instructor as you will find. He allows >NO deviations from standards. He is tough and when you leave you know the >flight characteristics of the RV. > >The Government did not set this program up. In conjuction with the Vangaurd >insurance program, this training allows you to be insured from the get go. > >Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be this long:-) > > > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY >http://rvflying.tripod.com >do not archive > > > > > > >From: "Dan Heath" > >Reply-To: KRnet@mailinglists.org > >To: > >Subject: Re: KR> kr flight training( need help.) > >Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 05:50:57 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) > > > >Well, I read the information on the RV Training web site and I was quite > >dissappointed. It would appear that in order to get the training, you >have > >to not need the training. If it is what it reads to be, it is no more >than > >a "get familiar with a RV" kind of school and with 3 RV's in my back >yard, > >I > >could get that right here. > > > >The government set this up for safety, but they have put so many > >restrictions on it that you can actually get better training for a KR, by > >going to a gathering. > > > >N64KR > > > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > > >DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > > >See you in Red Oak - 2003 > > > >See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic > >See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > > >-------Original Message------- > > > >From: KRnet@mailinglists.org > >Date: Sunday, February 09, 2003 08:15:08 PM > >To: KRnet@mailinglists.org > >Subject: Re: KR> kr flight training( need help.) > > > >thanks for that info > >william > >--- Ron Lee wrote: > > > Here is the link for one RV school. > > > > > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/trainfly.htm > > > > > > Ron Lee > > > > > > Made hotel reservation for Red Oak! > > > > > > > > > At 06:03 AM 2/9/03 -0800, you wrote: > > > >If you cannot find someone, you might consider RV > > > school. I believe there > > > >is one in Seattle. A chapter member finished her > > > RV last year and spent a > > > >week in RV school somewhere in Washington. > > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , > > > NOT "reply all" > > > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > > > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > > > See the KRNet archives at > > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > >. > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > >. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:51:12 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Brian Kraut Subject: Re: KR> I learned about flying from that Message-ID: <3E486520.3080408@earthlink.net> O.K., now I have to tell. I generally only keep this to friends, but it is just too funny. About two years ago I finally got back into flying after a long time starting a business, getting married, having a son, etc. I had been flying about six months before I finally talked my wife into going up with me. We went from Jacksonville to Panama city to spend the night. This was her first trip in a small plane (Cherokee 140) and she was very nervous. I got between Lake City and Panama city where there is nothing around for a while. My wife has a bladder the size of a pea and she just had to go. The only thing we could find was a plastic bag that we had our tooth brushes, etc. in so she tried to use that. After about five minutes trying to manuver on the front seat without hitting the yoke and the rudder pedals I suggested that she climb to the back seat where she would have more room. I heard a crash, ten seconds of silence, then a scream. Seems she leaned against the back bulkhead climbing over the seats and knocked it out. It is thin and not structural. She is used to something that looks like a wall being a little stronger. She fell over the back seat and was hanging there trying to keep from falling into the tail of the plane. She freaked out because she could see aircraft structure, wiring, and control wires. Not knowing what anything was she was convinced that she destroyed the plane and we were going to crash for sure. Needless to say, she hasn't flown with me since and swears she will never step in my KR. I fixed the bulkhead and tried to get as much of the pee smell out of the plane as I could before I brought it back. My wife had a death grip on the seat the whole way back. Good thing she didn't fall all the way into the tailcone. Her on the elevator cables and a way aft CG wouldn't be much fun. I could just see the NTSB report about the likely cause of the accident being the woman they found in the tailcone of the plane with her pants around her ankles. B109pro@aol.com wrote: >Oscar should have kept the empty Root Beer bottle for the X-C flight! Blue >skies, Skip > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:51:59 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Flight training Message-ID: <84.9b0e592.2b79bf4f@aol.com> --part1_84.9b0e592.2b79bf4f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not that it's important, But I curruenly work as the Director of Maintenance for a Part 141 flight school. After reading some of the discussion on the need for training, I had a discussion with our most senior flight instructor (77). Most of our thoughts had to do with the adverse things a pilot encounters with a strange new plane. Perhaps a list should be compiled from KR first flight experiences. I'll list a few of mine. 1. During high speed tail up taxi, Aircraft became airborne. Buckle up for all taxi tests. 2. Initial roll control after takeoff at low speed and low altitude was slower then expected, lifting the low wing took longer then expected. Avoid all cross winds at first. 3. Pitch sensitivity can be exaggerated by a death grip on the stick. Relax at least your grip, that may prevent you from proposing. AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_84.9b0e592.2b79bf4f_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 06:47:56 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Flight training Message-Id: <3E490D1C.000010.01272@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_WRF5N0X1VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't do taxi tests with your wings off=0D If you are taxiing over 15MPH, expect the KR to lift off=0D Taxi slowly untill you are confident with directional control looking out the side window=0D Get the feel of the rudder and brakes=0D I did not do this on my last one, but I am going to try slowly raising th= e tail with my brakes on, for feel.=0D Be sure to have something to rest your arm on, particularily if you have center stick=0D Read Jim Faughn's thesis on this subject and rehearse in your mind=0D Start down the runway feeding the power gradually while maintaining directional control, stick back=0D When you have full power, ease the stick forward, the tail will rise quic= kly but don't worry about nosing over.=0D All you have to do now is to decide when you want to start thinking about lowering the tail.=0D When you begin thinking about lowering the tail, the KR will soar into th= e air.=0D Avoid quick and jerky movements, think about what you want to happen.=0D Climb out at a shallow angle of attack, you don't know the stall speed ye= t and air speed is your friend.=0D Have fun, stay up as long as you can, try as much as you feel comfortable with including slow flight.=0D Now for the hard part, and you should expect to make several practice attempts to get the speed right.=0D Be prepared to be very patient. ( There is more to be described here, but= I don't feel qualified ).=0D I always ended up with a wheel landing. Tried full stall, but could not = do it.=0D Just as the mains (conventional gear) touch down, think forward on the st= ick if you pull back, go around.=0D I always held the stick as forward as I could untill the tail would not s= tay up.=0D When there was no more forward stick and the tail dropped, pull the stick all the way back and keep it there.=0D =0D This is from MY experience of flying N886KR for 6 years. Your results WILL vary. =0D =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Monday, February 10, 2003 06:52:46 PM=0D To: krnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: KR> Flight training=0D =0D Not that it's important, But I curruenly work as the Director of Maintena= nce =0D for a Part 141 flight school. After reading some of the discussion on the= =0D need for training, I had a discussion with our most senior flight instruc= tor =0D (77). Most of our thoughts had to do with the adverse things a pilot =0D encounters with a strange new plane. Perhaps a list should be compiled fr= om =0D KR first flight experiences. I'll list a few of mine.=0D 1. During high speed tail up taxi, Aircraft became airborne. Buckle up fo= r =0D all taxi tests. =0D 2. Initial roll control after takeoff at low speed and low altitude was =0D slower then expected, lifting the low wing took longer then expected. Avo= id =0D all cross winds at first.=0D 3. Pitch sensitivity can be exaggerated by a death grip on the stick. Rel= ax =0D at least your grip, that may prevent you from proposing. =0D =0D AviationMech=0D KR-2 N110LR=0D 1984 to Present=0D www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --------------Boundary-00=_WRF5N0X1VA4000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:38:35 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> Flight training Message-ID: <20030211.105205.-504207.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Proposing! I did that over 48 years ago, Virg On Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:51:59 EST AviationMech@aol.com writes: > Not that it's important, But I curruenly work as the Director of > Maintenance > for a Part 141 flight school. After reading some of the discussion > on the > need for training, I had a discussion with our most senior flight > instructor > (77). Most of our thoughts had to do with the adverse things a > pilot > encounters with a strange new plane. Perhaps a list should be > compiled from > KR first flight experiences. I'll list a few of mine. > 1. During high speed tail up taxi, Aircraft became airborne. Buckle > up for > all taxi tests. > 2. Initial roll control after takeoff at low speed and low altitude > was > slower then expected, lifting the low wing took longer then > expected. Avoid > all cross winds at first. > 3. Pitch sensitivity can be exaggerated by a death grip on the > stick. Relax > at least your grip, that may prevent you from proposing. > > AviationMech > KR-2 N110LR > 1984 to Present > www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech > Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:00:54 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Flight training Message-ID: <1d6.258e2de.2b7acc96@aol.com> --part1_1d6.258e2de.2b7acc96_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/11/2003 10:50:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, virgnvs@juno.com writes: > I did that over 48 years ago, Virg > Thanks, that what I get for using spell check AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_1d6.258e2de.2b7acc96_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 22:05:45 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Brian Kraut Subject: Re: KR> LED nav lights and low power strobe Message-ID: <3E486889.8070202@earthlink.net> --------------070704020900020207080102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whelen does have certified LED nav lights now. They are expensive until you consider what you save on the expensive bulbs in a few years. The reduced power requirement is a big plus for a KR also. By the way, I have a Whelen HDA power supply and a set of their strobes. Does anyone know of a modification that will lessen the intensity of the flash and decrease the current consumption without decreasing the life of the strobe tubes? I would have liked to get one of their lower current power supplies but I got a great deal from them at SNF on a factory reman. I would be willing to trade for one of the lower power units if anyone has one. Mark Langford wrote: >OZ wrote: > >>Has anyone on the list experimented with LEDs for nav lights? All the new >>cars seem to have 'em instead of filament type bulbs, and the obvious >>advantages are extremely long life (maybe could even be sealed in rather >>than have to be accessible) and low power draw. >> > >I gave this a long hard look about three years ago. Ultra-bright LEDs look >very attractive and have a low current draw, but the killer is that they are >highly directional, something like 15 degrees. That works fine for cars >(where the thing they are warning is directly behind, and at the same level) >or traffic lights (they actually prefer directionality to keep the crossing >lanes from knowing when the light's about to turn red), but it doesn't get >it on an airplane. > >When you consider that you're supposed to have very wide angle visibility (I >forget the exact number) for nav lights, you'd have to have something that >looks like a porcupine or a tennis ball full of LEDs to get that job done, >and now you're current draw is up to the level of a regular whelen bulb! >Actually, my original intension was to imbed them along the wingtip in an >arc, but that still doesn't address above and below the plane. I gave up on >it, but it probably won't be long before wider angle versions are available. >Maybe there are some out there already. If so, I'll give them another look. >I actually bought and tested about 10 different ultra-bright LEDs, and have >engineering data from them (these came from England, the brightest and >widest at the time), but they just didn't measure up in my mind... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama >mailto:langford@hiwaay.net >see KR2S N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > --------------070704020900020207080102-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 00:43:03 -0600 To: From: "Larry H" Cc: Subject: filling fluid lines Message-ID: <008501c2d198$d43459b0$0200a8c0@DADS> ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C2D166.88D4C4F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Joseph, I don't know if someone has helped you with this subject yet, but fill = from the bottom and it will push the air out of the lines and then it = will fill your cylinders at the top. If you pour in from the top and try to bleed like we used to do cars in = the old days, all the air may never come out because it is trying to = rise all the time. You can use a little pump oil can with a plastic hose attached to the = end of the outlet and attach the other end on the inlet at the caliper, = just pump til full or almost full, have someone watch for you. Larry Howell laheze@ev1.net ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01C2D166.88D4C4F0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:15:56 -0500 To: From: "harold woods" Cc: Subject: epoxy setting speed. Message-ID: <00c301c2d1e8$dba77d80$03000004@baol.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01C2D1BE.F275E800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you want a slow epoxy hardener then try Versamid 140. It gives you = about a 5 hour pot life. It will be set up by tomorrow (24 hours) and = reach it's maximum strength in 1 week. This Versamid hardener is used = as 2 parts Resin to 1 part hardener. It is a bit thick or viscus. I used = it while making the undercarriage geer legs of string(roving) = fibreglass. The results were excellent. I has one other peculiar characteristic that you might take advantage = of: it likes water. If you want a surprise, try this.=20 Take two spruce blocks, mix the epoxy resin and Versamid hardener. Take = the two blocks of wood to the hot water tap, let the hot water flow over = them for 1 minute. Use your finger to squeege the water off both = surfaces, immediately spread the epoxy mix on the wood (both surfaces) = put them together and lightly clamp.Come back tomorrow and test the glue = to destruction. If some one were making laminated wooded curved = surfaces and had to steam or wet soak the wood to bend it, there is no = need to wait for days to dry out the wood. Some one making wooden ribs = could use this hardener. If you are putting plywood on the fuselage , = consider it, do a test to prove it first. Elevating the temperature will quickly thin out the mix. It's bad feature is often that it takes so long to set up. It is not = for the impatient builder. If it is speed that you want use the fast = hardener for the "West System". Harold Woods. Orillia,ON. Canada. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01C2D1BE.F275E800-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:52:45 -0500 To: From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> epoxy setting speed. Message-ID: Now, that made my reading day worthwhile. Thanks, Harold. Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: harold woods [mailto:audreyandharoldwoods@rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:16 AM To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Cc: audreyandharoldwoods@rogers.com Subject: KR> epoxy setting speed. If you want a slow epoxy hardener then try Versamid 140. It gives you about a 5 hour pot life. It will be set up by tomorrow (24 hours) and reach it's maximum strength in 1 week. This Versamid hardener is used as 2 parts Resin to 1 part hardener. It is a bit thick or viscus. I used it while making the undercarriage geer legs of string(roving) fibreglass. The results were excellent. I has one other peculiar characteristic that you might take advantage of: it likes water. If you want a surprise, try this. Take two spruce blocks, mix the epoxy resin and Versamid hardener. Take the two blocks of wood to the hot water tap, let the hot water flow over them for 1 minute. Use your finger to squeege the water off both surfaces, immediately spread the epoxy mix on the wood (both surfaces) put them together and lightly clamp.Come back tomorrow and test the glue to destruction. If some one were making laminated wooded curved surfaces and had to steam or wet soak the wood to bend it, there is no need to wait for days to dry out the wood. Some one making wooden ribs could use this hardener. If you are putting plywood on the fuselage , consider it, do a test to prove it first. Elevating the temperature will quickly thin out the mix. It's bad feature is often that it takes so long to set up. It is not for the impatient builder. If it is speed that you want use the fast hardener for the "West System". Harold Woods. Orillia,ON. Canada. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 1/27/03 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:57:51 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: LOM inline engine Message-ID: Okay, since someone else opened the topic of the inline engine (I don't remember who), I sat down to read the Feb. Sport Aviation and on pg. 27 there is a story about a CH 801 being used by missionaries, powered with a 210HP LOM inline. I looked at the prop, then looked at it again. Does this engine turn "backwards" (left), like the Corvair? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:20:09 -0600 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: "V. P." Subject: RE: KR> LOM inline engine Message-id: yes a lot of older euro engines do -----Original Message----- From: Oscar Zuniga [mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:58 AM To: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: KR> LOM inline engine Okay, since someone else opened the topic of the inline engine (I don't remember who), I sat down to read the Feb. Sport Aviation and on pg. 27 there is a story about a CH 801 being used by missionaries, powered with a 210HP LOM inline. I looked at the prop, then looked at it again. Does this engine turn "backwards" (left), like the Corvair? Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:05:26 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: larry severson Subject: Winglets Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211100256.0285ec18@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Has anyone tried terminating the KR2 wing with winglets? I took aeronautics 40 years ago, and they seemed an outstanding answer with significant lift increase and drag reduction. Fuel consumption reduced 5-15% in DC-10 tests years ago. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:49:39 -0500 To: From: "Fran Giroux" Subject: Re: KR> Winglets Message-ID: <001401c2d217$7a588ea0$1002a8c0@franshp> Please tell us where we can find the design specs for these wingtips. I am planning to use something special on my plane but don't know the specifics of construction except for the general shape I've seen on the net. Fran ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry severson" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:05 PM Subject: KR> Winglets > Has anyone tried terminating the KR2 wing with winglets? I took aeronautics > 40 years ago, and they seemed an outstanding answer with significant lift > increase and drag reduction. Fuel consumption reduced 5-15% in DC-10 tests > years ago. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 14:42:59 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR> Winglets Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211143557.00b26900@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I do not have design specs. At this time, I am planning to make a constant cord wing extension of the normal length ending with a flat plate. The plate will match the wing shape in the front and continue back to the tip maintaining the vertical dimensions of the center of lift. This reduces the normal spill over at the tip which causes wing tip vortices. I will add a little contour to the wing to, hopefully, keep laminar flow across the winglet. Hopefully someone else has already tried this. At 04:49 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Please tell us where we can find the design specs for these wingtips. I am >planning to use something special on my plane but don't know the specifics >of construction except for the general shape I've seen on the net. > > Has anyone tried terminating the KR2 wing with winglets? I took >aeronautics > > 40 years ago, and they seemed an outstanding answer with significant lift > > increase and drag reduction. Fuel consumption reduced 5-15% in DC-10 tests > > years ago. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 16:02:38 -0700 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: gleone Subject: Re: KR> Winglets Message-ID: <3E49810E.7418D7F4@tritel.net> I read the first post and sent an email to NASA. If I get a useful response, I'll pass it along to the KR-Net. I'm interested in using them as well on my KR-1. The question is, will NASA actually give me the information or a link to find it myself or are they afraid of "liability" issues? I don't know but will let the group know what I find out when I find it out. Later! Gene Fran Giroux wrote: > Please tell us where we can find the design specs for these wingtips. I am > planning to use something special on my plane but don't know the specifics > of construction except for the general shape I've seen on the net. > > Fran > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "larry severson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 1:05 PM > Subject: KR> Winglets > > > Has anyone tried terminating the KR2 wing with winglets? I took > aeronautics > > 40 years ago, and they seemed an outstanding answer with significant lift > > increase and drag reduction. Fuel consumption reduced 5-15% in DC-10 tests > > years ago. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:11:16 -0600 To: From: "Frank Dungan" Subject: Re: KR> Winglets Message-Id: Sounds like the type found on an Airbus A300 >>> larry2@socal.rr.com 02/11/03 04:42PM >>> I do not have design specs. At this time, I am planning to make a = constant=20 cord wing extension of the normal length ending with a flat plate. The=20 plate will match the wing shape in the front and continue back to the = tip=20 maintaining the vertical dimensions of the center of lift. This reduces = the=20 normal spill over at the tip which causes wing tip vortices. I will add = a=20 little contour to the wing to, hopefully, keep laminar flow across the = winglet. Hopefully someone else has already tried this. At 04:49 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Please tell us where we can find the design specs for these wingtips. I = am >planning to use something special on my plane but don't know the = specifics >of construction except for the general shape I've seen on the net. > > Has anyone tried terminating the KR2 wing with winglets? I took >aeronautics > > 40 years ago, and they seemed an outstanding answer with significant = lift > > increase and drag reduction. Fuel consumption reduced 5-15% in DC-10 = tests > > years ago. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org=20 For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp=20 or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:11:16 -0600 To: From: "Frank Dungan" Subject: Re: KR> Winglets Message-Id: Sounds like the type found on an Airbus A300 >>> larry2@socal.rr.com 02/11/03 04:42PM >>> I do not have design specs. At this time, I am planning to make a = constant=20 cord wing extension of the normal length ending with a flat plate. The=20 plate will match the wing shape in the front and continue back to the = tip=20 maintaining the vertical dimensions of the center of lift. This reduces = the=20 normal spill over at the tip which causes wing tip vortices. I will add = a=20 little contour to the wing to, hopefully, keep laminar flow across the = winglet. Hopefully someone else has already tried this. At 04:49 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Please tell us where we can find the design specs for these wingtips. I = am >planning to use something special on my plane but don't know the = specifics >of construction except for the general shape I've seen on the net. > > Has anyone tried terminating the KR2 wing with winglets? I took >aeronautics > > 40 years ago, and they seemed an outstanding answer with significant = lift > > increase and drag reduction. Fuel consumption reduced 5-15% in DC-10 = tests > > years ago. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org=20 For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp=20 or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:35:16 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Winglets Message-Id: <3E49B2E4.000003.01272@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_SIC6G6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =46rom all that I have read over the years, they really don't make much difference. Just build it the way you like it and have the patience for.= =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 02:43:16 PM=0D To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: Re: KR> Winglets=0D =0D I do not have design specs. At this time, I am planning to make a constan= t =0D cord wing extension of the normal length ending with a flat plate. The =0D plate will match the wing shape in the front and continue back to the tip= =0D maintaining the vertical dimensions of the center of lift. This reduces t= he =0D normal spill over at the tip which causes wing tip vortices. I will add a= =0D little contour to the wing to, hopefully, keep laminar flow across the winglet.=0D =0D Hopefully someone else has already tried this.=0D =0D At 04:49 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, you wrote:=0D >Please tell us where we can find the design specs for these wingtips. I = am=0D >planning to use something special on my plane but don't know the specifi= cs=0D >of construction except for the general shape I've seen on the net.=0D =0D =0D =0D > > Has anyone tried terminating the KR2 wing with winglets? I took=0D >aeronautics=0D > > 40 years ago, and they seemed an outstanding answer with significant lift=0D > > increase and drag reduction. Fuel consumption reduced 5-15% in DC-10 tests=0D > > years ago.=0D =0D =0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"=0D =0D To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D =0D See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp=0D or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files=0D =0D =2E=20 --------------Boundary-00=_SIC6G6G0000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:27:34 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: Re: KR> Winglets Message-ID: <20030212012734.62180.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Larry, Go to the 2001 Gathering site on Mark Langford's website http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/pinebluff2001/ and look at Gene Knight's plane. It is the first and only (so far as I know) KR with winglets. Tip tanks, however, were put on KRs in South Africa back in the 70's, but that's another whole wild and crazy thread... Frank Ross in Sunny and beautiful San Antonio, TX, where it was a fantastic 66 degrees today and will plunge to a chilling 50 degrees tonight. --- larry severson wrote: > Has anyone tried terminating the KR2 wing with > winglets? I took aeronautics > 40 years ago, and they seemed an outstanding answer > with significant lift > increase and drag reduction. Fuel consumption > reduced 5-15% in DC-10 tests > years ago. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 12:50:40 -0600 To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: fuselage sides/skin Message-ID: Reading about skinning the sides, I knew I'd seen something to help make things a bit neater, and sure enough here it is (snipped from Mark Langford's fuselage page)- >After a truss (fuselage side) is constructed, and it's time to skin it >with plywood, glue the plywood to the side that was facing DOWN. When >you miter your verticals and gussets you try your best to make the >joints perfect on the side you can see, but what happens to the side >facing the table that you can't see? Since you can't see it while >you're fitting and gluing, the joints won't be as tight on the down >side, so cover THAT side with skin to both strengthen it and hide it. >I didn't have the good sense to do this, so the joints that you see >inside my boat are the joints on the worst looking side. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 14:48:03 -0800 To: kRnet@mailinglists.org From: larry severson Subject: elevator trim Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030211144550.02261e98@pop-server.socal.rr.com> I bought a partially completed KR2 with elevator trim installed, but not hooked up beyond the elevator. I have been told to just remove it and fiberglass over the hole. Is this the best thing to do? Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:33:43 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> elevator trim Message-Id: <3E49B287.000001.01272@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_7GC6QL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would hook it up even if I had to buy a servo. You will at times have = a nose up or nose down attitude and it could be very fatiqueing fighting th= at for a long period of time.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 02:48:12 PM=0D To: kRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: KR> elevator trim=0D =0D I bought a partially completed KR2 with elevator trim installed, but not = =0D hooked up beyond the elevator. I have been told to just remove it and =0D fiberglass over the hole. Is this the best thing to do?=0D =0D Larry Severson=0D Fountain Valley, CA=0D (714) 968-9852=0D larry2@socal.rr.com=0D =0D =0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"=0D =0D To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D =0D See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp=0D or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files=0D =0D =2E=20 --------------Boundary-00=_7GC6QL80000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:39:00 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> elevator trim Message-ID: --part1_b8.38f86e4d.2b7ae394_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/11/2003 5:48:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, larry2@socal.rr.com writes: > best thing to do? > I have had elevator trim for 18 years. Mine uses a small RC servo and had a small tab until the past couple of years, where I increased the size of the tab for more elevator control. It helps ease the control pressure and allows me to maintain altitude with less effort. I also have rudder trim. Why not have what you want. Some people put in wing levelers in also. Meny years ago there was marketed small 2 axis systems for home builts. The only 2 cautions I would give is that if the tab comes loose from the actuator, the control surface will flutter, and the more weight you add the less you can carry. AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_b8.38f86e4d.2b7ae394_boundary-- ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************