From: To: Subject: krnet Digest 10 Mar 2003 16:30:18 -0000 Issue 655 Date: Monday, March 10, 2003 9:30 AM krnet Digest 10 Mar 2003 16:30:18 -0000 Issue 655 Topics (messages 15723 through 15748): aileron hinges 15723 by: Brian Kraut 15726 by: Mark Jones 15739 by: AviationMech.aol.com 15747 by: Justin Re: How to inspect crank case VW 15724 by: Brian Kraut 15725 by: Brian Kraut 15728 by: Dan Heath 15729 by: Darren Pond 15730 by: Ed Janssen 15731 by: virgnvs.juno.com 15732 by: Bill Higdon 15740 by: Darren Pond 15742 by: Rick Wilson 15744 by: Dan Heath New Kr2 owner 15727 by: Timothy Bellville 15738 by: Phillip Matheson 15745 by: Timothy Bellville KR2 for sale on barnstormers 15733 by: Rick Wilson 15734 by: Rick Wilson Re: KR Plaque at EAA 15735 by: AviationMech.aol.com 15736 by: Mark Jones Re: KR Plaque at EAA DONATIONS 15737 by: AviationMech.aol.com Re: Plans. 15741 by: bill kirkland Web Page Update 15743 by: Mark Jones custom planes march 2003 15746 by: Flymaca711689.aol.com from VP list 15748 by: Frank Ross Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 23:22:02 -0500 To: krnet From: Brian Kraut Subject: aileron hinges Message-ID: <3E6AC16A.2090409@earthlink.net> My plane is nearly done with its year long change to fixed gear and more other improvements than I can count. I had two builders of completed KRs over today to go over the plane. They noticed that the ailerons hinges were not correct. The plans call for full length hinges. My plane had three hinge sections about 8" long each. Between the hinge pieces there were thin wood strips on the trailing edge of the wings to act as gap seals. I am going to change to full length hinges, but I was sondering if anyone else was using something less than full length hinges. I really don't know why anyone would build it like this unless they were in Siberia or somewhere and just couldn't find 6' hinges. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2003 23:09:20 -0600 To: , From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> aileron hinges Message-ID: <00fc01c2e5fa$0b1c8b80$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Brian, The question here is....does the KR really need six foot aileron hinges? First, step back and look at other planes. Does the Cessna utilize hinges the full length of the aileron. No, there are three short ones. Why was the KR designed with full length? Gap seals is the main reason I can think of because it certainly can not be for strength. Mark Langford did a strength test on a short piano hinge. Here is an excerpt from his test: "This was a test to see if a "rolled" hinge (rather than extruded) could hold 150 pounds. It did! That's enough to prove to me that 72 inches of this will last far longer than the aileron or wing itself. That's a four inch long hinge. A 72 inch long hinge would carry 2700 pounds, which is more than my car weighs!" You can find this at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/misc.html I have also heard tale of a KR that was pulling some high G's which caused the wing to flex just enough to lock the ailerons due to the six foot hinges. Bend the hinge and it will not pivot. The pilot of that KR survived the incident and upon landing, did not fly again until he had removed the six footers and replaced them with three short hinges. This is just food for thought but if it were my plane, I doubt I would remove the short hinges and replace them with the six footers. Just my 2 cents worth...your results may vary. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" To: "krnet" Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 10:22 PM Subject: KR> aileron hinges > My plane is nearly done with its year long change to fixed gear and more > other improvements than I can count. I had two builders of completed > KRs over today to go over the plane. They noticed that the ailerons > hinges were not correct. The plans call for full length hinges. My > plane had three hinge sections about 8" long each. Between the hinge > pieces there were thin wood strips on the trailing edge of the wings to > act as gap seals. I am going to change to full length hinges, but I was > sondering if anyone else was using something less than full length > hinges. I really don't know why anyone would build it like this unless > they were in Siberia or somewhere and just couldn't find 6' hinges. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:10:17 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> aileron hinges Message-ID: <1e7.4032606.2b9d23d9@aol.com> --part1_1e7.4032606.2b9d23d9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/8/2003 11:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, engalt@earthlink.net writes: > why anyone would build it like this Both Cessna and Piper usse hinge sections rather then a full length hinge. If the spar is not perfectly straight or the hinge is not installed perfectly level, the full length hinge will bind and the stick force will be greater then desired. I feel that a sectional hinge is ok if the alignment is correct. Orma aka AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_1e7.4032606.2b9d23d9_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 07:17:40 -0600 To: From: "Justin" Subject: Re: KR> aileron hinges Message-ID: <001e01c2e707$6d231c00$dcda1818@computer> on the subject of ailerons. I was lookin at a 10's alierons and it had the counterweight inside the gap of the alieron. Would this work for a KR or does everyone still hand that ugly one out the wing? Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 5:10 PM Subject: Re: KR> aileron hinges > In a message dated 3/8/2003 11:22:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, > engalt@earthlink.net writes: > > > why anyone would build it like this > > Both Cessna and Piper usse hinge sections rather then a full length hinge. > If the spar is not perfectly straight or the hinge is not installed perfectly > level, the full length hinge will bind and the stick force will be greater > then desired. I feel that a sectional hinge is ok if the alignment is > correct. > > Orma aka AviationMech > KR-2 N110LR > 1984 to Present > www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2003 23:56:48 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Brian Kraut Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-ID: <3E6AC990.30605@earthlink.net> --------------050103050702050101080006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit See http://www.greatplainsas.com/ . There is a lot of good info on the site and a good book you should buy on assembling the engine that answers most of your questions. You should also go to the engine assembly clinic that Steve from Great Plains gives at Sun-N-Fun every year if you are going. I would take the engine case to your local auto machine shop and have it steam cleaned. Buy a dye penetrant inspection kit if you want to check it for cracks. I highly recommend sending your crank to Aircraft Specialty Services for a magnaflux check. They only charged me $30.00 to check mine and they found a crack that may have been the end of me if I didn't have it checked. http://www.aircraft-specialties.com/mach.html Darren Pond wrote: >Question of the day >I have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time. >The goal is to give it a full over haul > >How do you inspect the crank case? >Crank shaft end play? Can any one suggest how to measure it and what is >should be? > >I plan on doing a full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old paint >off and oil residue (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be) > >Pull the crank and ring it to listen for cracks >Hone out cylinders and put in new rings >What about the internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your talking >to a tool maker here not an engine mechanic) > >valves get them ground and reseated? or just replace and reseat new ones? > >Inspect pistons for ware and tare. How do you judge this? I'm guessing score >marks are the tell tail signs with an overhaul. > >Any good web sites to get up to speed on doing this? > >If I can find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he need. Springs >coming and I have other things to work on too so farm this out will not hurt >my pride just my pocket book. > >Should I consider tossing this engine and building up a 2100. >Remember the main goal is to go flying this spring not make a life long >career out of this overhaul. > >Darren Pond > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > --------------050103050702050101080006-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 00:09:05 -0500 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Brian Kraut Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-ID: <3E6ACC71.8030002@earthlink.net> Oh, as for your pistons and cylinders, you can just buy a brand new set from Great Plains for $220.00. For the time involved in honing, measuring, installing new rings, etc. just to find out that what you have is O.K for a while longer you might as well just get new ones. You can also get the 1835 to 2180 upgrade kit for $1,395.00 and that will give you a brand new one of pretty much every part in the engine that can wear. Brian Kraut wrote: > See http://www.greatplainsas.com/ . There is a lot of good info on > the site and a good book you should buy on assembling the engine that > answers most of your questions. You should also go to the engine > assembly clinic that Steve from Great Plains gives at Sun-N-Fun every > year if you are going. > > I would take the engine case to your local auto machine shop and have > it steam cleaned. Buy a dye penetrant inspection kit if you want to > check it for cracks. > > I highly recommend sending your crank to Aircraft Specialty Services > for a magnaflux check. They only charged me $30.00 to check mine and > they found a crack that may have been the end of me if I didn't have > it checked. http://www.aircraft-specialties.com/mach.html > > > > Darren Pond wrote: > >> Question of the day >> I have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time. >> The goal is to give it a full over haul >> >> How do you inspect the crank case? >> Crank shaft end play? Can any one suggest how to measure it and what is >> should be? >> >> I plan on doing a full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old >> paint >> off and oil residue (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be) >> >> Pull the crank and ring it to listen for cracks >> Hone out cylinders and put in new rings >> What about the internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your >> talking >> to a tool maker here not an engine mechanic) >> >> valves get them ground and reseated? or just replace and reseat new >> ones? >> >> Inspect pistons for ware and tare. How do you judge this? I'm >> guessing score >> marks are the tell tail signs with an overhaul. >> >> Any good web sites to get up to speed on doing this? >> >> If I can find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he need. >> Springs >> coming and I have other things to work on too so farm this out will >> not hurt >> my pride just my pocket book. >> >> Should I consider tossing this engine and building up a 2100. >> Remember the main goal is to go flying this spring not make a life long >> career out of this overhaul. >> >> Darren Pond >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" >> >> To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org For >> additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org >> >> See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 08:16:58 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-Id: <3E6B68FA.000012.01184@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_A8PHDL51VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darren,=0D =0D Do you suspect that you have a leak?=0D =0D Do the valves look bad or are you haveing a problem with compression?=0D =0D Do you know what kind of crank you have, cast or forged?=0D =0D Do you know if there ever were any prop strikes?=0D =0D Did this engine come from Gilbert Duty?=0D =0D I know you want to fly as soon as possible, so what I am asking is WHY?=0D =0D First, get Steves book and read it. That should give you an indication o= f things to look for that may give you the reason, if you don't already hav= e one.=0D =0D Also, there is a serial number range on the case that were cases that you= do not want to use. See if Steve knows what that is, or check out Bob Hoove= r's site. See if you have one of those cases. That would be a good reason t= o tear it down.=0D =0D If you do decide to tear it down, have the crank magnafluxed. You can go= to a 1915 fairly inexpensively, if you do have to replace the case.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Saturday, March 08, 2003 08:17:31 PM=0D To: KR Net \(E-mail\)=0D Subject: KR> How to inspect crank case VW=0D =0D Question of the day=0D I have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time.=0D The goal is to give it a full over haul=0D =0D How do you inspect the crank case?=0D Crank shaft end play? Can any one suggest how to measure it and what is=0D should be?=0D =0D I plan on doing a full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old pain= t=0D off and oil residue (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be)=0D =0D Pull the crank and ring it to listen for cracks=0D Hone out cylinders and put in new rings=0D What about the internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your talki= ng=0D to a tool maker here not an engine mechanic)=0D =0D valves get them ground and reseated? or just replace and reseat new ones?= =0D =0D Inspect pistons for ware and tare. How do you judge this? I'm guessing sc= ore=0D marks are the tell tail signs with an overhaul.=0D =0D Any good web sites to get up to speed on doing this?=0D =0D If I can find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he need. Springs= =0D coming and I have other things to work on too so farm this out will not h= urt=0D my pride just my pocket book.=0D =0D Should I consider tossing this engine and building up a 2100.=0D Remember the main goal is to go flying this spring not make a life long=0D career out of this overhaul.=0D =0D Darren Pond --------------Boundary-00=_A8PHDL51VA4000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 08:48:13 -0500 To: , From: "Darren Pond" Subject: RE: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-ID: <000801c2e642$885b25a0$0100a8c0@cambr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Thanks for the info. I spent a hour on Steves site last night lots of cool info there too. Darren P -----Original Message----- From: Brian Kraut [mailto:engalt@earthlink.net] Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 11:57 PM To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW See http://www.greatplainsas.com/ . There is a lot of good info on the site and a good book you should buy on assembling the engine that answers most of your questions. You should also go to the engine assembly clinic that Steve from Great Plains gives at Sun-N-Fun every year if you are going. I would take the engine case to your local auto machine shop and have it steam cleaned. Buy a dye penetrant inspection kit if you want to check it for cracks. I highly recommend sending your crank to Aircraft Specialty Services for a magnaflux check. They only charged me $30.00 to check mine and they found a crack that may have been the end of me if I didn't have it checked. http://www.aircraft-specialties.com/mach.html Darren Pond wrote: >Question of the day >I have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time. >The goal is to give it a full over haul > >How do you inspect the crank case? >Crank shaft end play? Can any one suggest how to measure it and what is >should be? > >I plan on doing a full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old paint >off and oil residue (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be) > >Pull the crank and ring it to listen for cracks >Hone out cylinders and put in new rings >What about the internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your talking >to a tool maker here not an engine mechanic) > >valves get them ground and reseated? or just replace and reseat new ones? > >Inspect pistons for ware and tare. How do you judge this? I'm guessing score >marks are the tell tail signs with an overhaul. > >Any good web sites to get up to speed on doing this? > >If I can find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he need. Springs >coming and I have other things to work on too so farm this out will not hurt >my pride just my pocket book. > >Should I consider tossing this engine and building up a 2100. >Remember the main goal is to go flying this spring not make a life long >career out of this overhaul. > >Darren Pond > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > >To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org >For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > >See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 08:06:35 -0600 To: , From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-ID: <00a701c2e645$18c523a0$0200a8c0@dad> Darren, Better add an "s" to that word "question". :o) It looks like you may not have a whole lot of experience working with VW engines. I don't either. I highly recommend contacting someone like Steve Bennett, GPASC, with your questions. Also, unless you just want to tinker around and learn more about the VW engine on your own, I'd ship that baby to a professional for this kind of work on an engine that's gonna fly my carcass around. Ed Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Pond" To: "KR Net (E-mail)" Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 10:13 PM Subject: KR> How to inspect crank case VW > Question of the day > I have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time. > The goal is to give it a full over haul > > How do you inspect the crank case? > Crank shaft end play? Can any one suggest how to measure it and what is > should be? > > I plan on doing a full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old paint > off and oil residue (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be) > > Pull the crank and ring it to listen for cracks > Hone out cylinders and put in new rings > What about the internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your talking > to a tool maker here not an engine mechanic) > > valves get them ground and reseated? or just replace and reseat new ones? > > Inspect pistons for ware and tare. How do you judge this? I'm guessing score > marks are the tell tail signs with an overhaul. > > Any good web sites to get up to speed on doing this? > > If I can find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he need. Springs > coming and I have other things to work on too so farm this out will not hurt > my pride just my pocket book. > > Should I consider tossing this engine and building up a 2100. > Remember the main goal is to go flying this spring not make a life long > career out of this overhaul. > > Darren Pond > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 10:36:50 -0500 To: pond27@rogers.com From: virgnvs@juno.com Cc: krnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-ID: <20030309.104204.-342383.1.virgnvs@juno.com> Get the manual from Steve Bennet, Virg On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 23:13:49 -0500 "Darren Pond" writes: > Question of the day > I have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time. > The goal is to give it a full over haul > > How do you inspect the crank case? > Crank shaft end play? Can any one suggest how to measure it and what > is > should be? > > I plan on doing a full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old > paint > off and oil residue (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be) > > Pull the crank and ring it to listen for cracks > Hone out cylinders and put in new rings > What about the internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your > talking > to a tool maker here not an engine mechanic) > > valves get them ground and reseated? or just replace and reseat new > ones? > > Inspect pistons for ware and tare. How do you judge this? I'm > guessing score > marks are the tell tail signs with an overhaul. > > Any good web sites to get up to speed on doing this? > > If I can find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he need. > Springs > coming and I have other things to work on too so farm this out will > not hurt > my pride just my pocket book. > > Should I consider tossing this engine and building up a 2100. > Remember the main goal is to go flying this spring not make a life > long > career out of this overhaul. > > Darren Pond > > > > > > > > Virgil N. Salisbury AMSOIL WWW.LUBEDEALER.COM/SALISBURY ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2003 08:02:29 -0800 To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Bill Higdon Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-ID: <3E6B6595.7080704@attbi.com> Darren, Besides getting the manual from Steve, I'd suggest doing a google search on veeeduber/veeduber/R.S.Hoover (veeduber@aol.com) Bob is the author of many Good tech articles on VW engines. He pointed out that a crank with a crack will usually "ring" test just fine. So magnaflux is required, send it to Steve he is set up for it and knows where to look. Bill Higdon virgnvs@juno.com wrote: > Get the manual from Steve Bennet, Virg > > On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 23:13:49 -0500 "Darren Pond" > writes: > >>Question of the day >>I have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time. >>The goal is to give it a full over haul >> >>How do you inspect the crank case? >>Crank shaft end play? Can any one suggest how to measure it and what >>is >>should be? >> >>I plan on doing a full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old >>paint >>off and oil residue (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be) >> >>Pull the crank and ring it to listen for cracks >>Hone out cylinders and put in new rings >>What about the internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your >>talking >>to a tool maker here not an engine mechanic) >> >>valves get them ground and reseated? or just replace and reseat new >>ones? >> >>Inspect pistons for ware and tare. How do you judge this? I'm >>guessing score >>marks are the tell tail signs with an overhaul. >> >>Any good web sites to get up to speed on doing this? >> >>If I can find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he need. >>Springs >>coming and I have other things to work on too so farm this out will >>not hurt >>my pride just my pocket book. >> >>Should I consider tossing this engine and building up a 2100. >>Remember the main goal is to go flying this spring not make a life >>long >>career out of this overhaul. >> >>Darren Pond ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 20:31:42 -0500 To: From: "Darren Pond" Subject: RE: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-ID: <000001c2e6a4$ce814ac0$0100a8c0@cambr.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> HI Dan Looks like I'll have to buy the book to even get started. With out knowing alot about the engine out side that it was running and has 600 flying hours. I'm starting from scratch. No I have not done a compression test and not sure about any leaks. No prop strikes have occoured that I'm certain. Do we have any actual VW engine builders on the kr net that I can connect with. The real question that I'm looking for is how do you inspect a Crank case? Magna flux is a no brainer and easy enough to do. What am I looking for as far as the case degrading over time? Are there any bearing mounts that are not repairable? What should I look for before I start pulling things apart? Books on order just tring to get the ball rolling. My first attempt at getting a VW engine mechanic to work on it got the usual and expected look of fear about legal responsiblity. Man I hate that response!! Fear of the unknown must of killed more dreams than any accidents every will. Darren Pond -----Original Message----- From: Dan Heath [mailto:DanRH@AllTel.net] Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 11:17 AM To: KRnet@mailinglists.org Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Darren, Do you suspect that you have a leak? Do the valves look bad or are you haveing a problem with compression? Do you know what kind of crank you have, cast or forged? Do you know if there ever were any prop strikes? Did this engine come from Gilbert Duty? I know you want to fly as soon as possible, so what I am asking is WHY? First, get Steves book and read it. That should give you an indication of things to look for that may give you the reason, if you don't already have one. Also, there is a serial number range on the case that were cases that you do not want to use. See if Steve knows what that is, or check out Bob Hoover's site. See if you have one of those cases. That would be a good reason to tear it down. If you do decide to tear it down, have the crank magnafluxed. You can go to a 1915 fairly inexpensively, if you do have to replace the case. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Red Oak - 2003 See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org -------Original Message------- From: KRnet@mailinglists.org Date: Saturday, March 08, 2003 08:17:31 PM To: KR Net \(E-mail\) Subject: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Question of the day I have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time. The goal is to give it a full over haul How do you inspect the crank case? Crank shaft end play? Can any one suggest how to measure it and what is should be? I plan on doing a full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old paint off and oil residue (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be) Pull the crank and ring it to listen for cracks Hone out cylinders and put in new rings What about the internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your talking to a tool maker here not an engine mechanic) valves get them ground and reseated? or just replace and reseat new ones? Inspect pistons for ware and tare. How do you judge this? I'm guessing score marks are the tell tail signs with an overhaul. Any good web sites to get up to speed on doing this? If I can find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he need. Springs coming and I have other things to work on too so farm this out will not hurt my pride just my pocket book. Should I consider tossing this engine and building up a 2100. Remember the main goal is to go flying this spring not make a life long career out of this overhaul. Darren Pond ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 20:09:43 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org, pond27@rogers.com From: Rick Wilson Subject: RE: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-ID: <20030310040943.89828.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Darren, I think the point Dan was trying to make is why are you rebuilding it now? If there are no leaks, and there has been no prop strike, and if compression checks out ok, why not run it for now and rebuild it when it does give you a problem? Why not go down the list of things that Dan mentioned and if all check out ok, run it for now? This is just my observation as I don't know the circumstances. Rick Wilson. rwdw2002@yahoo.com --- Darren Pond wrote: > > HI Dan > Looks like I'll have to buy the book to even get > started. > With out knowing alot about the engine out side that > it was running and has > 600 flying hours. I'm starting from scratch. > > No I have not done a compression test and not sure > about any leaks. No prop > strikes have occoured that I'm certain. > > Do we have any actual VW engine builders on the kr > net that I can connect > with. The real question that I'm looking for is how > do you inspect a Crank > case? Magna flux is a no brainer and easy enough to > do. > What am I looking for as far as the case degrading > over time? Are there any > bearing mounts that are not repairable? > > What should I look for before I start pulling things > apart? > > Books on order just tring to get the ball rolling. > > My first attempt at getting a VW engine mechanic to > work on it got the usual > and expected look of fear about legal responsiblity. > Man I hate that > response!! Fear of the unknown must of killed more > dreams than any accidents > every will. > > Darren Pond > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Heath [mailto:DanRH@AllTel.net] > Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 11:17 AM > To: KRnet@mailinglists.org > Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW > > > Darren, Do you suspect that you have a leak? Do > the valves look bad or are > you haveing a problem with compression? Do you know > what kind of crank you > have, cast or forged? Do you know if there ever > were any prop strikes? Did > this engine come from Gilbert Duty? I know you want > to fly as soon as > possible, so what I am asking is WHY? First, get > Steves book and read it. > That should give you an indication of > things to look for that may give you the reason, if > you don't already have > one. Also, there is a serial number range on the > case that were cases that > you do > not want to use. See if Steve knows what that is, > or check out Bob Hoover's > site. See if you have one of those cases. That > would be a good reason to > tear it down. If you do decide to tear it down, > have the crank magnafluxed. > You can go to > a 1915 fairly inexpensively, if you do have to > replace the case. N64KR > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Red Oak - > 2003 See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click > on the pic See our EAA > Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org -------Original > Message------- From: > KRnet@mailinglists.org Date: Saturday, March 08, > 2003 08:17:31 PM To: KR Net > \(E-mail\) Subject: KR> How to inspect crank case VW > Question of the day I > have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time. > The goal is to give it a > full over haul How do you inspect the crank case? > Crank shaft end play? Can > any one suggest how to measure it and what is should > be? I plan on doing a > full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old > paint off and oil residue > (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be) > Pull the crank and ring it > to listen for cracks Hone out cylinders and put in > new rings What about the > internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your > talking to a tool maker > here not an engine mechanic) valves get them ground > and reseated? or just > replace and reseat new ones? Inspect pistons for > ware and tare. How do you > judge this? I'm guessing score marks are the tell > tail signs with an > overhaul. Any good web sites to get up to speed on > doing this? If I can > find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he > need. Springs coming and > I have other things to work on too so farm this out > will not hurt my pride > just my pocket book. Should I consider tossing this > engine and building up > a 2100. Remember the main goal is to go flying this > spring not make a life > long career out of this overhaul. Darren Pond > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , > NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: > krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 06:37:36 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) To: From: "Dan Heath" Subject: RE: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Message-Id: <3E6CA330.00001B.01184@dan> --------------Boundary-00=_OAFJ4961VA4000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darren,=0D =0D The place that the case is most prone to cracking is behind the #3 cylind= er. For the VW Engine challenged, this is the right rear cylinder as it sits= on the plane. I have built many VW Engines, but for the one on the plane, I always started with the short block.=0D =0D If you do tear it down, you can probably take the short block to any mechanic and don't tell them what it is for, or say dune buggy or air boa= t.=0D =0D The important thing then for you to do, will be to CC the heads and prope= rly torque all the nuts as you put it back together.=0D =0D All of this stuff is in Steve's book. The VW is a simple engine. I lear= ned to build it out of a book just like Steve's.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Date: Sunday, March 09, 2003 05:39:51 PM=0D To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: RE: KR> How to inspect crank case VW=0D =0D HI Dan=0D Looks like I'll have to buy the book to even get started.=0D With out knowing alot about the engine out side that it was running and h= as=0D 600 flying hours. I'm starting from scratch.=0D =0D No I have not done a compression test and not sure about any leaks. No pr= op=0D strikes have occoured that I'm certain.=0D =0D Do we have any actual VW engine builders on the kr net that I can connect= =0D with. The real question that I'm looking for is how do you inspect a Cran= k=0D case? Magna flux is a no brainer and easy enough to do.=0D What am I looking for as far as the case degrading over time? Are there a= ny=0D bearing mounts that are not repairable?=0D =0D What should I look for before I start pulling things apart?=0D =0D Books on order just tring to get the ball rolling.=0D =0D My first attempt at getting a VW engine mechanic to work on it got the us= ual=0D and expected look of fear about legal responsiblity. Man I hate that=0D response!! Fear of the unknown must of killed more dreams than any accide= nts=0D every will.=0D =0D Darren Pond=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D -----Original Message-----=0D From: Dan Heath [mailto:DanRH@AllTel.net]=0D Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 11:17 AM=0D To: KRnet@mailinglists.org=0D Subject: Re: KR> How to inspect crank case VW=0D =0D =0D Darren, Do you suspect that you have a leak? Do the valves look bad or ar= e=0D you haveing a problem with compression? Do you know what kind of crank yo= u=0D have, cast or forged? Do you know if there ever were any prop strikes? Di= d=0D this engine come from Gilbert Duty? I know you want to fly as soon as=0D possible, so what I am asking is WHY? First, get Steves book and read it.= =0D That should give you an indication of=0D things to look for that may give you the reason, if you don't already hav= e=0D one. Also, there is a serial number range on the case that were cases tha= t=0D you do=0D not want to use. See if Steve knows what that is, or check out Bob Hoover= 's=0D site. See if you have one of those cases. That would be a good reason to=0D tear it down. If you do decide to tear it down, have the crank magnafluxe= d.=0D You can go to=0D a 1915 fairly inexpensively, if you do have to replace the case. N64KR=0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Red Oak -=0D 2003 See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA=0D Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org -------Original Message------- From:=0D KRnet@mailinglists.org Date: Saturday, March 08, 2003 08:17:31 PM To: KR = Net=0D \(E-mail\) Subject: KR> How to inspect crank case VW Question of the day = I=0D have a 1835vw with 600 hours on it aircraft time. The goal is to give it = a=0D full over haul How do you inspect the crank case? Crank shaft end play? C= an=0D any one suggest how to measure it and what is should be? I plan on doing = a=0D full tare down soak it in a cleaner to get the old paint off and oil resi= due=0D (any suggestions on what the cleaner should be) Pull the crank and ring i= t=0D to listen for cracks Hone out cylinders and put in new rings What about t= he=0D internal bearings? Just replace them? (remember your talking to a tool ma= ker=0D here not an engine mechanic) valves get them ground and reseated? or just= =0D replace and reseat new ones? Inspect pistons for ware and tare. How do yo= u=0D judge this? I'm guessing score marks are the tell tail signs with an=0D overhaul. Any good web sites to get up to speed on doing this? If I can=0D find a mechanic to do this what sort time would he need. Springs coming a= nd=0D I have other things to work on too so farm this out will not hurt my prid= e=0D just my pocket book. Should I consider tossing this engine and building u= p=0D a 2100. Remember the main goal is to go flying this spring not make a lif= e=0D long career out of this overhaul. Darren Pond=0D =0D =0D =0D ---------------------------------------------------------------------=0D To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all"=0D =0D To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org =0D For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org=0D =0D See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp=0D or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files=0D =0D =2E=20 --------------Boundary-00=_OAFJ4961VA4000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 04:18:09 -0500 To: , From: "Timothy Bellville" Subject: New Kr2 owner Message-ID: <002801c2e61c$ce037100$645f570c@default> HI Everyone, I've been on the net for years, but until yesterday,not a builder. I just sold my Sonerai I and picked up a almost finished KR2 RG from a good friend of mine. I have always love this little plane and now proud to be her owner. I still like to build, so I think I'm Going to build A KR1 now to go along with her. Thanks Tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:11:11 +1100 To: From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> New Kr2 owner Message-ID: <00dc01c2e691$2de935e0$7196dccb@Matheson> Good luck, Welcome to the KRnet. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au 61 3 58833588 See our engines at: http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation,com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 09:18:49 -0500 To: From: "Timothy Bellville" Subject: Re: KR> New Kr2 owner Message-ID: <007501c2e70f$f8b78e60$d460570c@default> Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phillip Matheson" To: Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 6:11 PM Subject: Re: KR> New Kr2 owner > Good luck, > Welcome to the KRnet. > > Phil Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.au > 61 3 58833588 > See our engines at: > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > www.homebuilt-aviation,com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 08:31:26 -0800 (PST) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: KR2 for sale on barnstormers Message-ID: <20030309163126.6081.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all, There is a KR2 on Barnstormers for sale or trade for a cabin cruiser boat. The ad says it has a VW 1835 with dual ignition. It has the gullwing canopy. There are several pictures in the ad. I guess you would go to barnstormers and search experimental aircraft for KR2 and find it. Just thought someone might be interested. Rick Wilson. rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 08:33:49 -0800 (PST) To: KRNET@MAILINGLISTS.ORG From: Rick Wilson Subject: KR2 for sale on barnstormers Message-ID: <20030309163349.21806.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com> Hi again, I forgot to add the price is 10,500 for the KR2 on barnstormers. Rick Wilson. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 17:55:28 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR Plaque at EAA Message-ID: <1c8.65d25c9.2b9d2060@aol.com> --part1_1c8.65d25c9.2b9d2060_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/7/2003 8:36:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, flykr2s@wi.rr.com writes: > people have pledged Where should people who want to sit less and do more send a donation Orma aka AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_1c8.65d25c9.2b9d2060_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 17:01:32 -0600 To: From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> KR Plaque at EAA Message-ID: <002b01c2e68f$d42806e0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> You may donate two different ways: 1) Go to www.paypal.com and send the donation to account flykr2s@wi.rr.com (my e-mail address is the account number) 2) Mail to: Mark Jones 615 Wexford Circle Wales, WI 53183 Thanks Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 4:55 PM Subject: Re: KR> KR Plaque at EAA > In a message dated 3/7/2003 8:36:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, > flykr2s@wi.rr.com writes: > > > people have pledged > > Where should people who want to sit less and do more send a donation > > Orma aka AviationMech > KR-2 N110LR > 1984 to Present > www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 18:01:09 EST To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: AviationMech@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR Plaque at EAA DONATIONS Message-ID: --part1_a2.348a9246.2b9d21b5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 3/8/2003 11:57:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, ldeckert@earthlink.net writes: > Mark, > > Forget my message about your address, didn't read far enough!! > > Me too Orma aka AviationMech KR-2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com:/aviationmech --part1_a2.348a9246.2b9d21b5_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 21:49:27 -0500 To: From: "bill kirkland" Subject: Re: KR> Plans. Message-ID: <004c01c2e6af$ac2b9d80$eb942a18@lndn.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> eRIC; tHE PLANS ARE a good guide but there is a lot to be learned from the net. the elevator hinges, the airfoil shape for eg. the elevator spars are tapered both sides. guess how I found out! W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND kirkland@vianet.on.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 10:49 AM Subject: Re: KR> Plans. > I am considering building a KR2S. How detailed are the drawings? > > Thanks > Eric > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To post to the list, email: krnet@mailinglists.org , NOT "reply all" > > To UNsubscribe, e-mail: krnet-unsubscribe@mailinglists.org > For additional commands, e-mail: krnet-help@mailinglists.org > > See the KRNet archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > or http://www.bouyea.net/ for the Word files > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2003 22:44:15 -0600 To: "KR-Net" From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Web Page Update Message-ID: <005901c2e6bf$b47677c0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C2E68D.69A20C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have updated the Photo of the WEEK on my webpage. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C2E68D.69A20C00-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 10:04:42 EST To: krnet@mailinglists.org From: Flymaca711689@aol.com Subject: custom planes march 2003 Message-ID: <15d.1cf01e99.2b9e038a@aol.com> --part1_15d.1cf01e99.2b9e038a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit see Steve Bennett page 56 the vw engine in experimental aircraft. hopefully all spell everything right so the spelling police don't get me. he his truly the man to ask if your have trouble he has solved any problem i have had over the phone he is all ways helpful and never try's to sell you something that you don't need. he speaks out for his love of the Kr and is a true pioneer for the Kr and will help you along your way with flying and power plant problems. yes photos of the kr1 and 2 are also in the article thank you Steve Billy mcfarland (flying kr2) flymac@a711689aol.com --part1_15d.1cf01e99.2b9e038a_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 08:30:28 -0800 (PST) To: KRnet@mailinglists.org From: Frank Ross Subject: from VP list Message-ID: <20030310163028.15991.qmail@web40903.mail.yahoo.com> Thought some of you might enjoy this post from the VP list regarding last night's "Junkyard Wars" TV show. It reminded me of my first attempt to draw a full-size template of the VP-1 wing rib. I was worried about small imperfections until I got to looking at the wing's top surface on the 152 I was re-fueling one day. That wing had more ripples, dips and waves than the Gulf of Mexico. It was no different than any other factory-built metal plane you see flying around all over the place. I'm not promoting sloppy building, just pointing out that many of the home-builts (especially KRs) are in many ways far more refined than anything cranked out of the airplane factories. Does it have something to do with a love of sanding? Frank Ross in San Antonio, Texas, USA Site of this years "Miss America" contest This might not have anything specific to do with VP's but should give a boost of confidence to those of us building them. Did anyone else happen to see 'Junkyard Wars' on TV last night? Three teams of four people each built an airplane in 20 hours time. The Brits built a copy of an old biplane of wood with only a single landing wheel like some gliders. The French team built a copy of (forgot the type) a French plane from the 30's, also wood. It had a narrow, high cambered wing with only one surface and was a taildragger. The American team built a metal canard type which was built, but not documented, in 1911. They worked from a picture only and it was a pusher. Each team was given a new engine which looked like a 2-stroker. The American team had quite a problem with cg, and once in the air it was a devil to control. They did finally fly for over 2 minutes but missed the finish line completely since the canard was completely in the way of visibility. Not bad for an undocumented design of 92 years ago. The French got off and flew only about 6 feet off the ground, touching down once but landing with the tailskid on the finish line. They might have done better on takeoff if the skid wasn't so high, higher than the VP1. They also might have done better if the pilot wasn't so timid. The Brits-- a bunch of showoffs. On the first practice flight, the pilot took off, made a fairly steep climb, and flew a perfectly controlled turn around the desert at about 200' agl, and then made a perfectly soft landing on the one wheel. The 2nd practice flight he did the same and almost had to be forced to land it. On the final test run, without flight instruments, (he lost them on the second run), he made a high, straight run and stopped with his front wheels on the finish line without brakes. Before flight each plane was inspected by the FAA (or PFA?) and given an airworthyness certificate. ...20 hours, 3 teams of builders making a design they had not seen before starting, an airworthyness cert. and a successful flight. I'm suddenly not so worried about perfection. I'll try for it, but won't worry. Chuck __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of krnet Digest ***********************************