From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 Date: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:17 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Gathering Lodging (Edwin Blocher) 2. Re: Gathering Lodging (ROBERT COOPER) 3. Re: Gathering Lodging (Edwin Blocher) 4. Gathering Lodging (larry flesner) 5. Re: it's something to do with the elevators (lloyd schultz) 6. Re: KR2 Stall speed (lloyd schultz) 7. Re: KR2SPort (lloyd schultz) 8. Re: Gathering Lodging (Edwin Blocher) 9. Re: Work Table (Edwin Blocher) 10. FYI (Mark Jones) 11. Re: Gathering Lodging (Mark Jones) 12. Re: Gathering Lodging (Dan Heath) 13. Re: FYI (ROBERT COOPER) 14. Re: FYI (Mark Jones) 15. Re: FYI 16. Smooth Prime (long) (larry flesner) 17. Re: Smooth Prime (long) (Jim Morehead) 18. Weight & Balance Flight Data (Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA) 19. RE: Weight & Balance Flight Data (Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA) 20. Plane Trailer 21. Gathering (Patrick Driscoll) 22. Red Oak (Colin) 23. Re: FYI (Scott Cable) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:52:02 -0500 From: "Edwin Blocher" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging Message-ID: <001801c32ae3$88f66de0$0201a8c0@computer> References: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC25DA66D@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Mark, Did you reserve your room at the Red Roof Inn? Anyone reserving a room there be sure to mention you are coming for the KR Gathering. They have a block of rooms set aside. My rate for a single is $38.00 per night, Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:33 AM Subject: KR>Gathering Lodging > I just booked my room at Red Oak and I was looking at this link: > http://www.krgathering.org/ > Holy Cow... THE Headline says KR Gathering 20,023. Can you just imagine what > the KR will look like in that year. Think there will be any new mods by > then? > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:01:12 -0400 From: "ROBERT COOPER" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging Message-ID: References: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC25DA66D@SIC-EXCHANGE> <001801c32ae3$88f66de0$0201a8c0@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 I have reserved a room with two double beds. Would be glad to share expenses with someone. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2 Fayetteville, NC. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edwin Blocher" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:52 PM Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging > Mark, > Did you reserve your room at the Red Roof Inn? Anyone reserving a room there > be sure to mention you are coming for the KR Gathering. They have a block of > rooms set aside. My rate for a single is $38.00 per night, > Ed Blocher > Santa Rosa Beach, FL > eblocher@earthlink.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KR Net" > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:33 AM > Subject: KR>Gathering Lodging > > > > I just booked my room at Red Oak and I was looking at this link: > > http://www.krgathering.org/ > > Holy Cow... THE Headline says KR Gathering 20,023. Can you just imagine > what > > the KR will look like in that year. Think there will be any new mods by > > then? > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > Wales, WI > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 17:20:31 -0500 From: "Edwin Blocher" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging Message-ID: <002001c32ae7$837990a0$0201a8c0@computer> References: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC25DA66D@SIC-EXCHANGE><001801c32ae3$88f66de0$0201a8c0@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Corection: Make that the Red Coach Inn, Sorry about that. Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT COOPER" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:01 PM Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging > I have reserved a room with two double beds. Would be glad to share expenses > with someone. > > Jack Cooper > mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com > http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2 > Fayetteville, NC. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Edwin Blocher" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging > > > > Mark, > > Did you reserve your room at the Red Roof Inn? Anyone reserving a room > there > > be sure to mention you are coming for the KR Gathering. They have a block > of > > rooms set aside. My rate for a single is $38.00 per night, > > Ed Blocher > > Santa Rosa Beach, FL > > eblocher@earthlink.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Jones" > > To: "KR Net" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:33 AM > > Subject: KR>Gathering Lodging > > > > > > > I just booked my room at Red Oak and I was looking at this link: > > > http://www.krgathering.org/ > > > Holy Cow... THE Headline says KR Gathering 20,023. Can you just imagine > > what > > > the KR will look like in that year. Think there will be any new mods by > > > then? > > > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > > Wales, WI > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 18:16:07 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Gathering Lodging Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030604181607.007d2410@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC25DA66D@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 When I booked my room at the Red Coach Inn eariler this week the lady indicated she had a limited number of rooms left. Better hurry! She also asked if I had an AARP card so may get a senior discount also. I guess I deserve some kind of a reward for living this long. Good luck maybe? Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:24:23 -0600 From: lloyd schultz To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>it's something to do with the elevators Message-ID: <3EDE7FA7.3203FB7D@earthlink.net> References: <3EDD607E.25E19040@earthlink.net> <004e01c3295a$c08e1bc0$e402a58c@N56ML> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 I believe the book you might be thinking of is Ladislao Pazmany's LIGHT AIRPLANE DESIGN, page 44. -Lloyd Schultz Mark Langford wrote: > "Tail volume coeffiecient" might be what y'all are grasping for. I don't > have that stuff in front of me at the moment (I'm in El Paso, for some > reason), but I recall seeing a list of tail volume coefficients for various > planes in one of the design books that ran the gamut from docile to radical > (Spitfire, maybe), and the KR had even LESS than anything else on the list. > Now tail volume is not as accurate as stability derivatives, but it's an > indication, and the KR was completely off the scale... > > Mark Langford > mailto:langford@hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:31:21 -0600 From: lloyd schultz To: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com, KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>KR2 Stall speed Message-ID: <3EDE8149.6957F841@earthlink.net> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 The undated factory KR2S brochure I have says wing area is 88 sq ft, and the stall speed is 48mph, which I believe converts to 41.7 knots.. That brochure is at least 6 years old. If you used the entire KR2S wing including foam tips, and kept the airplane adequately light, I believe stall speed might be SPORT PILOT-legal. -Lloyd Schultz rfreiberger@earthlink.net wrote: > The stall speed of the KR2 is listed as 52mph, which is 45 Knots. The no > flaps stall limit for a "Sport Pilot" is 44Knots. I calculate a plain > "Hershey Bar" wing with 2 feet of increased span would raise the area by 15 > square feet. > The KR2 Spec sheet says wing area 80 square feet, but I can only account for > 75 (!). > > Does anyone know the actual stall speed, with or without flaps, and at what > weight would that apply? > > I don't have a problem ratio-ing the data from 75 or 80 square feet, but it > seems there's 5 square feet missing. > > It looks like a KR2SPort is possible based on the initial specs.... > > Ron Freiberger > mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:51:08 -0600 From: lloyd schultz To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>KR2SPort Message-ID: <3EDE85EB.79272812@earthlink.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20030604084130.007accd0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Maybe not if that sport pilot KR2S only has a 57hp VW, 1 seat, is 28 " wide, and has dirty cowling and no pants? larry flesner wrote: > >Remember, when reading those specs, that they are for the weight as > >specified. > >If you could come up with a KR2SPort, you would really have something that I > >think would be very popular. > >Daniel R. Heath > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Don't forget there are other qualifiers for the "Sport Plane" besides > stall speed. One is max speed, I believe, of somewhere around > 125 mph. It might be hard to convince the inspector your slick > little ship will not do better than that. > > Larry Flesner > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:02:03 -0500 From: "Edwin Blocher" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging Message-ID: <003201c32af5$b2123e40$0201a8c0@computer> References: <3.0.6.32.20030604181607.007d2410@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 I booked my room about 2 weeks ago and didn't mention the KR Gathering at first and she said they had a few rooms available but when I did mention the KR Gathering she said that they have a block of rooms reserved for us. At that time only 3 people had reserved 4 rooms. Call the Red Coach in Red Oak direct at 712-623-4864 and be sure to say KR Group for special rates. Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 6:16 PM Subject: KR>Gathering Lodging > > > When I booked my room at the Red Coach Inn eariler this > week the lady indicated she had a limited number of rooms > left. Better hurry! She also asked if I had an AARP card > so may get a senior discount also. I guess I deserve some > kind of a reward for living this long. Good luck maybe? > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 19:20:31 -0500 From: "Edwin Blocher" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Work Table Message-ID: <004b01c32af8$46c24a60$0201a8c0@computer> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Since no one has replied to your question I'll say this. I made my table 4'X12'. I wouldn't go any shorter or narrower and sometimes wished I had another foot. I made mine so I could remove 4' after the fuselage was complete and then had 4'X4' and 4'X8' tables. Another hint: get at least a dozen pencils because they tend to all end up on one side of the table :-) ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Curtis Chance" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:46 PM Subject: KR>Work Table > Looking for some advice(lessons learned) on recommended work table > dimensions to build my KR-2S plus. I would like to use something narrower > than the Rand Robinson suggested 4 X 16, however I don't want to find out > later in the project that I need a 4' wide table. > > Thanks > Curtis "Schneider" Chance > LT USNR > VS-24 1st LT > navalavi8or@bellsouth.net > chancecs@vs24.navy.mil > SCOUT'S RULE!!! > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:43:29 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Subject: KR>FYI Message-ID: <001c01c32b03$dd5c0f00$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 10 I know this is off subject but I just thought some of you would like to = cash in on Harbor Freight Tools big sale going on right now. I went to = the local store today to get an inductive timing light with advance and = found it to be on sale for $22 and much more stuff was at more than 50% = off. I am not going to say how much I wound up spending because if my = wife happens to see this e-mail and saw what I spent......well she would = be pi$$ed. The good part is a lot of it will be used to finish building = the KR. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 20:52:27 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging Message-ID: <003f01c32b05$1e63e580$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC25DA66D@SIC-EXCHANGE> <001801c32ae3$88f66de0$0201a8c0@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Yes I did get in on the KR block of rooms. I did not even ask the rate or how many rooms were left. Before I mentioned I was in the KR group, she made the comment that there may not be any available rooms but she was referring to the general public. She also asked if I had a AARP card...maybe I can borrow Larry's. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edwin Blocher" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 4:52 PM Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging > Mark, > Did you reserve your room at the Red Roof Inn? Anyone reserving a room there > be sure to mention you are coming for the KR Gathering. They have a block of > rooms set aside. My rate for a single is $38.00 per night, > Ed Blocher > Santa Rosa Beach, FL > eblocher@earthlink.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KR Net" > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:33 AM > Subject: KR>Gathering Lodging > > > > I just booked my room at Red Oak and I was looking at this link: > > http://www.krgathering.org/ > > Holy Cow... THE Headline says KR Gathering 20,023. Can you just imagine > what > > the KR will look like in that year. Think there will be any new mods by > > then? > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > Wales, WI > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:10:55 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Gathering Lodging Message-ID: <3EDED0DF.000005.00964@dan> References: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC25DA66D@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 12 20,023. Can you just imagine what=0D the KR will look like in that year. Think there will be any new mods by=0D then?=0D =0D =0D If Mark has anything to say about it, there will.=0D =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From SALTMINES@aol.com Wed Jun 04 19:28:51 2003 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19NkUk-0006fu-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 04 Jun 2003 19:28:50 -0700 Received: from SALTMINES@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36.3.) id g.1d1.b0e5200 (4560) for ; Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:26:31 -0400 (EDT) From: SALTMINES@aol.com Message-ID: <1d1.b0e5200.2c100456@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:26:30 EDT Subject: Re: KR>FYI To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Mark, I know the feeling! I live within driving distance of the Harbor Freight main in Camarillo, CA and the truck has returned ladened with much more than I'd gone stalking.! Not a tool junkie, really, do USE the things...eventually. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 23:04:02 -0400 From: "ROBERT COOPER" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>FYI Message-ID: References: <1d1.b0e5200.2c100456@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 I went to Harbor Freight a few days ago to get some large diamoter drill bitts. I also bought a 9.6 Volt cordless drill with a keyless chuck for $10. That night I was working on break pedals. I was drilling with one drill, countersinking with another and using another for a screwdriver. I am somewhat of a tool junkie. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2 Fayetteville, NC. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: KR>FYI > Mark, > I know the feeling! I live within driving distance of the Harbor Freight main > in Camarillo, CA and the truck has returned ladened with much more than I'd > gone stalking.! > Not a tool junkie, really, do USE the things...eventually. > Stephen > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 22:42:52 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>FYI Message-ID: <000b01c32b14$8b21e320$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <1d1.b0e5200.2c100456@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 OK guys, here is another secrete of mine. Ever wonder where a lot of those tools you see on eBay for sale come from. Now I am talking brand new, not used. Well I have bought tools from these folks at some extremely low prices. For example..3/8" electric drill at $6.00. HVLP spray gun $13.00 and a lot more. So far there has not been one product I have been disappointed with. I used the HVLP to spray a boat trailer last week....sweet. Here is my secret source: Drop Shipped Tools, http://www.dropshippedtools.com/store.asp Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT COOPER" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:04 PM Subject: Re: KR>FYI > I went to Harbor Freight a few days ago to get some large diamoter drill > bitts. I also bought a 9.6 Volt cordless drill with a keyless chuck for $10. > That night I was working on break pedals. I was drilling with one drill, > countersinking with another and using another for a screwdriver. I am > somewhat of a tool junkie. > Jack Cooper > mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com > http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2 > Fayetteville, NC. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:26 PM > Subject: Re: KR>FYI > > > > Mark, > > I know the feeling! I live within driving distance of the Harbor Freight > main > > in Camarillo, CA and the truck has returned ladened with much more than > I'd > > gone stalking.! > > Not a tool junkie, really, do USE the things...eventually. > > Stephen > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:44:28 EDT From: SALTMINES@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>FYI Message-ID: <178.1ba1c7b5.2c10b14c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 In a message dated 6/4/03 8:40:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, flykr2s@wi.rr.com writes: > http://www.dropshippedtools.com/store.asp > > Thanks, Mark, site looks good. Incidentally, one of the most useful tools I've gotten lately is the Air Hydraulic Riveter (harborfreight.com, item 00167-1RXH, $34.99). Anything that needs pop riveting is a treat with it. Initially I got it for replacing loose rivets on my aluminum hull boat (just drill out the old rivet, dip new rivet in 5 minute epoxy and POW, it's done!) Highly recommend it. Stephen KR2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 09:45:22 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Smooth Prime (long) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030605094522.00793860@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <000b01c32b14$8b21e320$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <1d1.b0e5200.2c100456@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 I've just opened my third gallon of Smooth Prime and I'm getting close to finished on priming my KR. I'll share a few observations on what I've experienced so far. - Read the ( manufactures) directions carefully so you know what you're doing. - A propeller shaped paint mixer on a 1/4 drill motor does a good job of mixing and it is not necessary to locate a paint shaker as suggested in the directions. If the primer has set for some time you will want to use a stir stick to loosen the solids that have compacted on the bottom of the can when you mix the primer. - The first three coats require adding "cross-linker". I used a quart fruit jar for mixing. It has to be used in eight hours so don't mix more than you intend to roll on in that amount of time. - Some light sanding after two or three coats will help get a smooth finish a bit more quickly and with less effort. The first coats will have a very rough finish because of the high solids content of the primer. 240 or 320 grit paper works well for that. - No matter how careful you are you will have "pimples" and flecks of solids in the finish. These come from primer that has dried in your paint dish and around the rim of the can and then find there way into the primer. They will easily sand off but a better method is to use a small scraper with the single edge razor blade. Carefully run the scraper across the surface at a shallow angle and they cut right off. If you sand them off you will sand off primer around the spot that you will have to replace. - Another flaw you will get is "ridges" in the primer that come from the end of the roller that you fail to see and don't get rolled out. Use your razor scraper to remove these also but draw the blade down the length of the ridge in a near vertical motion. It will only take off the ridge and not the surrounding primer. - The directions say you can either spray or roll on the last three coats. When spraying it says to add some water to thin the primer. This also works when rolling and will help to give a smoother finish. I used a pint jar and added a bit of water at a time until I got the mix I wanted. - I found I could use the primer with a 6" rubber squeegee and very light pressure to fill minor defects. It dries very quickly and is ready to sand in a very short time. I added some "micro" to the primer and used the squeegee to fill slightly larger defects with good results. - When I started I used a plastic spout to pour primer from the can into my mixing jars. The problem is you can never get all the primer off the spout and the bottom edge of the can rim. This will cause you to later get a lot of dried flecks of primer that find their way onto the finish. When I started my last gallon I switched to using small disposable cups to dip the primer from the can. I use my roller to clean out the "dipping" cup and then toss the cup into the trash, starting with a clean cup on the next draw. - For safety reasons you should wear a mask while sanding. I hate the mask because my glasses don't fit well and keep "fogging" as I breath. My solution is to sand in an open area and use two window fans mounted in a stand. I Keep the fans close to my work and always keep my head in the direct blast of air and "up wind" of the area I'm sanding. USE YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT HERE. - Last but not least, the discouraging news. When you think you are nearly finished, look again. You will most likely find you are only about half done! As always, do your own testing. YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY. I hope to be painting in the next 30 days and my painter has convinced me to use a DuPont paint that sells for $38 a gallon. I've seen his "work truck" that he painted 8 years ago in his driveway in Florida and the paint seems to have held up well. The color selection is limited but the color white available seems to be what I'm looking for. I intend to use vynal for my trim strips. More info on that later. Happy building....... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 08:23:37 -0700 From: Jim Morehead To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Smooth Prime (long) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030605094522.00793860@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 on 6/5/03 7:45 AM, larry flesner at flesner@midwest.net wrote: > > > - The first three coats require adding "cross-linker". I used > a quart fruit jar for mixing. It has to be used in eight hours > so don't mix more than you intend to roll on in that amount > of time. > > > Happy building....... > > Larry Flesner > Larry, Thanks for your Smooth Prime information. Why do you only use "cross-linker" in the first three coats of primer? How many total coats of primer do you recommend? Thanks, Jim Morehead Cameron Park, CA KR2, finish sanding the wings ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:33:08 +0200 From: Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: KR>Weight & Balance Flight Data Message-ID: <9D054CEF43F1C243A279E5435E9717465B6EBB@sviemxs02.gate01.skylines.global> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 18 There were some questions about C/G Range last week. I would like to add my two cents to that. I ran some calculations yesterday about my first 12 flights of a stock KR2S with a GPAS engine. I have a 1,4in engine mount spacer installed, and had problems during the first flight with nose up trim. I installed a lead weight in the tail. Now I will remove the spacers and calculated an anticipated C/G Range based on the first data. I will add a spacer (1,4in) between the prop and engine. And sorry guys, it is all in KG and Meters (1kg = 2,2lb) (0,33m = 1ft) The Range is still in percent, that is the most important figure. Here is the data (out of an EXCEL Spreadsheet): <<...OLE_Obj...>> Christian OE-VPD http://www.members.aon.at/oevpd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 17:39:30 +0200 From: Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: RE: KR>Weight & Balance Flight Data Message-ID: <9D054CEF43F1C243A279E5435E9717465B6EBC@sviemxs02.gate01.skylines.global> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 19 Sorry I screwed up with my excel file, next try: 0,573 0,766 Total(kg) Arm(m)Moment(kgm)%Range Trim T/O Trim Crz Trim Ldg 1 408,7 0,629 257,47 29,02 full nose upfull nose upfull nose up 2 419,2 0,63 266,645 29,53 nose up full nose upnose up 3,8 kg tailweight added 3 468,2 0,68 322,745 55,44 nose up neutral nose up 4 475,2 0,689 327,32 60,10 nose up neutral nose up 5 483,4 0,696 336,57 63,73 nose up neutral nose up 6 470,2 0,686 322,55 58,55 nose up neutral nose up 7 477,4 0,701 334,71 66,32 nose up neutral nose up 8 487,1 0,693 337,56 62,18 nose up neutral nose up 9 476,7 0,697 332,25 64,25 nose up neutral nose up 10 473,7 0,705 334,01 68,39 nose up neutral nose up 11 490,4 0,688 337,491 59,59 nose up neutral nose up 12 481,8 0,695 335,115 63,21 nose up neutral nose up GPAS engine weight: 90 kg Existing Distance from Firewall 0,4293 m Planned Distance from Firewall 0,3937 m also -1,5 kg for spacers Actual W&B (empty) 316,2 0,567 179,265 remove 90 -0,4293 -38,637 add 90 -0,3937 -35,433 new W&B 316,2 0,5771 182,469 Anticipated C/G Range 1 408,7 0,6391 257,475 34,23 2 419,2 0,6401 266,645 34,75 3 468,2 0,6901 322,745 60,66 4 475,2 0,6991 327,32 65,32 5 483,4 0,7061 336,57 68,95 6 470,2 0,6961 322,55 63,77 7 477,4 0,7111 334,71 71,54 8 487,1 0,7031 337,56 67,39 9 476,7 0,7071 332,25 69,47 10 473,7 0,7151 334,01 73,61 11 490,4 0,6981 337,491 64,80 12 481,8 0,7051 335,115 68,43 Sorry Christian OE-VPD http://www.members.aon.at/oevpd -----Original Message----- From: Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA Sent: Donnerstag, 05. Juni 2003 17:33 To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: KR>Weight & Balance Flight Data There were some questions about C/G Range last week. I would like to add my two cents to that. I ran some calculations yesterday about my first 12 flights of a stock KR2S with a GPAS engine. I have a 1,4in engine mount spacer installed, and had problems during the first flight with nose up trim. I installed a lead weight in the tail. Now I will remove the spacers and calculated an anticipated C/G Range based on the first data. I will add a spacer (1,4in) between the prop and engine. And sorry guys, it is all in KG and Meters (1kg = 2,2lb) (0,33m = 1ft) The Range is still in percent, that is the most important figure. Here is the data (out of an EXCEL Spreadsheet): <<...OLE_Obj...>> Christian OE-VPD http://www.members.aon.at/oevpd _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:43:30 EDT From: SALTMINES@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Cc: ralphndori@juno.com Subject: KR>Plane Trailer Message-ID: <135.20a827d0.2c10bf22@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 20 Hi All, I'm fairly new to this list, and I bet this has been covered before, but I'm looking for info on suitable trailer and tips for such (building or whatever) for KR2. Perhaps what I'm looking for might be archived(?) or on someones website(?). Hmmm...might be the only working means of transportation to Red Oak 2003. Stephen Mines KR2 Saltmines@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:52:41 -0500 From: "Patrick Driscoll" To: "KR Mailing list" Subject: KR>Gathering Message-ID: <005101c32b7a$7fd250c0$382dee42@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 21 Just booked at Red Oak Inn. Got the AARP rate. Didn't ask how much cause it didn't matter none. Just said I was with the KR group and she said fine , what kind of room = did I need and what size bed. Must be some more rooms left. Pat Driscoll ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:02:14 -0400 From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Red Oak Message-ID: <004b01c32b84$3cb41c60$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 22 Just made reservations for Bev and I today, with no problems. Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From flesner@midwest.net Thu Jun 05 10:40:48 2003 Received: from sire.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.182]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19NyjI-000FPA-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:40:48 -0700 Received: from dsc04-cir-oh-5-219.rasserver.net ([198.211.102.219] helo=larry-flesner) by sire.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19NyhB-0004wk-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 05 Jun 2003 10:38:38 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20030605123546.00800970@pop.midwest.net> X-Sender: flesner@pop.midwest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 12:35:46 -0500 To: KR builders and pilots From: larry flesner In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20030605094522.00793860@pop.midwest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: KR>Smooth Prime follow-up X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: >Larry, > Thanks for your Smooth Prime information. Why do you only use >"cross-linker" in the first three coats of primer? How many total coats of >primer do you recommend? >Jim Morehead +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The instructions indicate that the cross-linker is to make the primer more resistant to gas, oil, etc. They recommend cross-linking the first three coats and to use a total of six coats. For anyone interested in using Smooth Prime, the instruction book is FREE from Wick's and is in their catalog. I assume it is on their web site also. As to how many coats do I recommend, I'm not sure. I've been doing quite a bit of sanding between coats (not following instructions) so I'm not even sure how many coats some areas have. I'm basiclly priming and sanding till I get the finish I want. A great deal of this $125 a gallon material is ending up on my driveway as dust. Too bad I can't collect it and ship it back for a refund! As I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm on my third gallon and that should easily finish the job with some left over. I going to GUESS that someone building a standard KR with several premolded parts such a wing skins, and more tolerant of defects than me, may get by with just two gallons. Finally, if you use a squeegee to apply the primer it tends to dry on the squeegee very quickly and is VERY hard to remove. I found that by holding the squeegee under warm running water and rubbing with a piece of Scotch Bright, plastic pot scrubber or similar, the primer comes right off. Good luck........... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 11:13:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>FYI Message-ID: <20030605181328.98100.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 23 Yeah, Harbor Freight is great! It's filled with things that you never knew you wanted, but can't possibly live without! Have a new store that opened near me in Flint. The place did record business everyday it was open for the first month! What poor economy? Went by there over the weekend. The place had a line on both perimeters all the way to the back of the store! ROBERT COOPER wrote:I went to Harbor Freight a few days ago to get some large diamoter drill bitts. I also bought a 9.6 Volt cordless drill with a keyless chuck for $10. That night I was working on break pedals. I was drilling with one drill, countersinking with another and using another for a screwdriver. I am somewhat of a tool junkie. Jack Cooper mailto:kr2cooper@msn.com http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2 Fayetteville, NC. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 10:26 PM Subject: Re: KR>FYI > Mark, > I know the feeling! I live within driving distance of the Harbor Freight main > in Camarillo, CA and the truck has returned ladened with much more than I'd > gone stalking.! > Not a tool junkie, really, do USE the things...eventually. > Stephen > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1 ************************************