From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 Date: Sunday, June 08, 2003 8:31 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Great Stuff aint Great (Dan Heath) 2. GE LEXAN SLX 3. Re: KR2 or S Can you strech one? (Kenneth L Wiltrout) 4. Re: KR2 or S Can you strech one? (Dan Heath) 5. Re: KR2 or S Can you strech one? (Russ & Brenda) 6. Re: putting in wing tanks after it is built? (Dan Heath) 7. Re: KR2 Simulator 8. Re: Retract or not. (Russ & Brenda) 9. Re: Retract or not. (Mark Jones) 10. Re: Retract or not. (Russ & Brenda) 11. Re: Retract or not. (Dan Heath) 12. Re: Retract or not. (Dan Heath) 13. Any builders/flyers in Switzerland?? (Dana Overall) 14. Any builders/flyers in Switzerland?? (Dana Overall) 15. Re: Grove or Diehl (Mark Langford) 16. Re: www.flightsim.com. (Dan Heath) 17. airscopes 18. KR2 or S Can you stretch one? (larry flesner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:08:40 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: KR>Great Stuff aint Great Message-ID: <3EE26267.000001.01596@dan> References: Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 Ace wrote > Great Stuff Sucks.=0D =0D Ace,=0D =0D I completely agree with you. All builders should avoid this stuff. Ther= e are too many alternatives, to be messing with such nasty stuff. I have n= ot used one drop of it to build this plane and never will. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Sat Jun 07 12:11:04 2003 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Oj5k-000Izf-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 12:11:04 -0700 Received: from dan ([151.213.88.16]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20030607190858.UVMJ8923.mta02-srv.alltel.net@dan> for ; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:08:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3EE2638F.000008.01596@dan> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:13:35 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001107.2001107) From: "Dan Heath" References: X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: Re: KR>KR2 Simulator Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Phil,=0D =0D When you try that KR2S that I sent you, let me know how it works and if y= ou make any improvements to it, I would like to try them. I have never used= it but my new computer, joy stick, and MS Simulator will be here on Monday.= =0D =0D Do you have rudder pedals? =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From russandbrenda@sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 07 12:25:27 2003 Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net ([207.115.63.103]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19OjJe-000JG5-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 12:25:26 -0700 Received: from audiovideo (adsl-65-65-222-154.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net [65.65.222.154]) by pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.9/8.12.3) with SMTP id h57JNKl8200966 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:23:21 -0400 Message-ID: <004501c32d29$7fbfef60$2321fea9@audiovideo> From: "Russ & Brenda" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: Subject: Re: KR>KR2 or S Can you strech one? Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:17:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I'm new and I'm 6-2 and 250lbs. There is a KR2 I'm looking at to put a corvair motor on, could I stretch the completed KR2 (Unpainted) or is that more work than it's worth? I the KR2 big enough for me? I hope I'm not asking dumb questions. Thanks, Russ Houck. Corsicana Texas. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:58:26 -0500 From: asavant@notes.state.ne.us To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>GE LEXAN SLX Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Precedence: list Message: 2 PEZPTlQgZmFjZT0iRGVmYXVsdCBTYW5zIFNlcmlmLCBWZXJkYW5hLCBBcmlhbCwgSGVsdm V0aWNh LCBzYW5zLXNlcmlmIiBzaXplPTI+PERJVj5EZWFyIEtSZXJzLDwvRElWPjxESVY+Jm5ic3 A7PC9E SVY+PERJVj5Tb21lIHRpbWUgYWdvIEkgcmVxdWVzdGVkIGEgZmV3IHNhbXBsZXMgb2YgR0 UncyBM RVhBTiBTTFggRmlsbS4gTGFja2luZyBhbnkga25vd2xlZGdlIGFib3V0IHRoaXMgc3R1Zm YgZm9y IGZpbmlzaGluZyBjb21wb3NpdGUgYWlycGxhbmVzIGxpa2UgdGhlIEtSLiBJIHRob3VnaH QgSSB3 b3VsZCB0dXJuIHlvdSBndXlzIGxvb3NlIG9uIHRoaXMgdG8gY29tbWVudC48L0RJVj48RE lWPiZu YnNwOzwvRElWPjxESVY+VGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBsaW5rIHNob3VsZCBnaXZlIHlvdSB0aG UgcHJv bW8vZGF0YSBzaGVldCZuYnNwO29uIHRoaXMgc3R1ZmYuIEhvd2V2ZXIsIEkgc3RpbGwgZG 9uJ3Qg a25vdyBob3cgdG8gdXNlIHRoaXMuIEJ1dCBzb21ldGhpbmcgdGVsbHMgbWUgdGhhdCB0aG lzIG1p Z2h0IGFuIGVhc2llciB3YXkgdG8gZmluaXNoIGZpcmJlcmdsYXNzIHRoYW4gdGhlIHRyYW RpYXRp b25hbCBtZXRob2RzLjwvRElWPjxESVY+Jm5ic3A7PC9ESVY+PERJVj48QSBocmVmPSJodH RwOi8v d3d3Lmdlc3RydWN0dXJlZHByb2R1Y3RzLmNvbS9zcC9jb250ZW50L2xpYnJhcnkvcGRmcy 9hbGl0 MTI2LnBkZiIgdGFyZ2V0PWJsYW5rPmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZ2VzdHJ1Y3R1cmVkcHJvZHVjdH MuY29t L3NwL2NvbnRlbnQvbGlicmFyeS9wZGZzL2FsaXQxMjYucGRmPC9BPjwvRElWPjxESVY+Jm 5ic3A7 PC9ESVY+PERJVj5FbmpveSE8YnI+PGJyPkFtZWV0Jm5ic3A7U2F2YW50PGJyPmFzYXZhbn RAbm90 ZXMuc3RhdGUubmUudXM8YnI+PC9ESVY+PC9GT05UPg== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:02:39 -0400 From: Kenneth L Wiltrout To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>KR2 or S Can you strech one? Message-ID: <20030607.160240.2364.0.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 I would think long and hard before tackeling that .. Where would u stretch it? The sides are already curved for it's present length. You would have to cut through it's main structural members. My thoughts------good luck! On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:17:54 -0500 "Russ & Brenda" writes: > I'm new and I'm 6-2 and 250lbs. There is a KR2 I'm looking at to put > a > corvair motor on, could I stretch the completed KR2 (Unpainted) or > is that > more work than it's worth? I the KR2 big enough for me? I hope I'm > not > asking dumb questions. > Thanks, Russ Houck. > Corsicana Texas. > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:13:27 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>KR2 or S Can you strech one? Message-ID: <3EE27197.00000A.01596@dan> References: <20030607.160240.2364.0.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Hey, don't give up hope. Larry Fleshner is a very tall person and I am sure he will offer some good advise to you about that. Stretch, no, make= it fit, possible.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From n56ml@hiwaay.net Sat Jun 07 13:15:08 2003 Received: from ant.hiwaay.net ([216.180.54.10] helo=mail.hiwaay.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Ok5j-000Jjd-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:15:07 -0700 Received: from basement (user-24-214-106-120.knology.net [24.214.106.120]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h57KD0GK846399 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:13:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <03b701c32d31$3c3af4d0$1202a8c0@basement> From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <004501c32d29$7fbfef60$2321fea9@audiovideo> Subject: Re: KR>KR2 or S Can you strech one? Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:13:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Russ Houck wrote: > I'm new and I'm 6-2 and 250lbs. There is a KR2 I'm looking at to put a > corvair motor on, could I stretch the completed KR2 (Unpainted) or is that > more work than it's worth? I the KR2 big enough for me? Jim Hill stretched his KR2 to a KR2S, but only because he broke the tail off in a force landing incident! It can be done, but be careful to properly scarf the longerons and plywood. Other than that, altering the turtle deck (not trivial) and longer cables would be necessary. It sure sounds like a lot of work to me though, and as Kenneth said, your fuselage will have some discontinuous curves in it afterwards. It took Jim Hill two years to do his. Personally, I don't think it'd be worth the effort. Keeping the CG at the forward end of the range will go a long way towards accomplishing the same goal and a Corvair would do that immediately. Before you make any decisions, you'd need to do a weight and balance and consider the extra weight of the Corvair and where it's located. Will you fit? It all depends on how tall the guy made the canopy, and how deep he made the seat. Leg room will probably be short, but there are pleny of tall guys flying KRs. It all depends on how bad you want it... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:49:03 -0500 From: "Russ & Brenda" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR2 or S Can you strech one? Message-ID: <009701c32d3e$9d60e0a0$2321fea9@audiovideo> References: <004501c32d29$7fbfef60$2321fea9@audiovideo> <03b701c32d31$3c3af4d0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 It sure is good to have you guys to talk to. What about putting in wing tanks like make did on his, after it is built? Thanks, Russ Houck. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 3:13 PM Subject: Re: KR>KR2 or S Can you strech one? > Russ Houck wrote: > > > I'm new and I'm 6-2 and 250lbs. There is a KR2 I'm looking at to put a > > corvair motor on, could I stretch the completed KR2 (Unpainted) or is that > > more work than it's worth? I the KR2 big enough for me? > > Jim Hill stretched his KR2 to a KR2S, but only because he broke the tail off > in a force landing incident! It can be done, but be careful to properly > scarf the longerons and plywood. Other than that, altering the turtle deck > (not trivial) and longer cables would be necessary. It sure sounds like a > lot of work to me though, and as Kenneth said, your fuselage will have some > discontinuous curves in it afterwards. It took Jim Hill two years to do > his. Personally, I don't think it'd be worth the effort. Keeping the CG at > the forward end of the range will go a long way towards accomplishing the > same goal and a Corvair would do that immediately. Before you make any > decisions, you'd need to do a weight and balance and consider the extra > weight of the Corvair and where it's located. > > Will you fit? It all depends on how tall the guy made the canopy, and how > deep he made the seat. Leg room will probably be short, but there are pleny > of tall guys flying KRs. It all depends on how bad you want it... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 21:41:48 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>putting in wing tanks after it is built? Message-ID: <3EE2BE8C.00000C.01596@dan> References: <009701c32d3e$9d60e0a0$2321fea9@audiovideo> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 RE: What about putting in wing tanks like make did on his, after it is built?=0D =0D Sure, why not? I have not done it, but we have a tank in one wing which = we are not going to use and may want to activate it, and put one in the othe= r. some day. I would have no concern about doing that.=0D =0D I would take the wing off, turn it upside down, and cut a big hole in it.= =20 If you were lucky enough to get some tanks like Mark Jones did, it would = be a nit.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From rjk1964@bellsouth.net Sat Jun 07 19:41:44 2003 Received: from mail210.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.58.150] helo=imf47bis.bellsouth.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 19Oq7s-000LfG-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 19:41:44 -0700 Received: from rklucznik ([65.80.212.131]) by imf47bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.25 201-253-122-122-125-20020815) with SMTP id <20030608024155.MYLC24413.imf47bis.bellsouth.net@rklucznik> for ; Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:41:55 -0400 Message-ID: <003c01c32d66$916252c0$0201a8c0@rklucznik> From: "RJK" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: Subject: Re: KR>KR2 Simulator Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:35:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: RJK , KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Actually, there are a copy models of the KR2 for Microsoft Flight Sim. Go to www.flightsim.com. You will have to join (which is free) to be able to download them. They were modeled under FlightSim98. Have no idea how realistic their flying characteristics are though. Rick Klucznik ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Spurr" To: Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 12:19 PM Subject: KR>KR2 Simulator > Hi All > Has anyone tried to produce a realistic model of a KR2 or KR2S, more so in > handling terms than looks, rendition for either Microsoft's Flight > Simulator or X-Plane ? I'm interested to experiment and do 'what if's' with > a simulator version, and would like to know if anything already exists > before re-inventing the wheel. If nothing exists, then I will probably use > X-Plane, because despite it's lack of scenery and gizmo's compared to > FS2002, I do believe it is more authentic ( and easier ) to produce a > realistic flight / propulsion model. > Alternatively I can start to model one myself, but in that case does anyone > know of any computer based / CAD files of a KR2 drawings that would speed > up the progress ? I'm willing to share the end product, but it would > initially be a tri-gear KR2, with other options following on from there... > Regards > Phil > > Phil.Spurr@btopenworld.com > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 23:18:32 -0400 From: n886kr@netscape.net To: krnet@mylist.net (KR builders and pilots) Subject: Re: KR>KR2 Simulator Message-ID: <19A3B2A2.145004E4.0005EAA5@netscape.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 7 "Dan Heath" wrote: >Phil, > > > >When you try that KR2S that I sent you, let me know how it works Dan, What's this about? I have the complete set with pedals, stick, and Mcrosoft 2000. Just curious. My real reason for writing is to ask you what type motor mount is on the "Little Beast." The Deihl Nose gear is compatible with some, but not others, although adjustments can be made. Rick N886KR "Little Beast" __________________________________________________________________ McAfee VirusScan Online from the Netscape Network. Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/computing/mcafee/index.jsp?promo=393397 Get AOL Instant Messenger 5.1 free of charge. Download Now! http://aim.aol.com/aimnew/Aim/register.adp?promo=380455 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 00:02:44 -0500 From: "Russ & Brenda" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. Message-ID: <00da01c32d7b$3295a0c0$2321fea9@audiovideo> References: <3EE15DF6.000008.01604@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Hey gang, I'm looking at a KR2 with retractable gear and the guy was telling me how much it would cost to put fixed gear on it. Is that something I should consider? Is the retractable gear bad on the KR2's? Thanks, Russ Houck. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 00:28:35 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. Message-ID: <008701c32d7e$cf3cbfa0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <3EE15DF6.000008.01604@dan> <00da01c32d7b$3295a0c0$2321fea9@audiovideo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Russ, The retractable gear if it is the original version has some bad points. They have been known to collapse on touchdown causing a belly slide....not good. Putting fixed gear on would be a smart move. You would not have to worry about remembering to drop that gear to land it any more. Plus, that is just one more kiss (keep it safe & simple) system. The cost of the gear depends on what you want. Diehl conventional for example would be about $500 for a new set and you would have to cut into the wings to mount them. Diehl's tri-gear is about $1000 which also takes cutting into the wing to mount plus adding a nose gear bracket. Then there are conventional gear made by Grove which would mount to the bottom of the fuselage with minimal modifications. Sorry, I do not know the cost of the Grove gear. Maybe someone else will give you an approximation on that. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > Hey gang, I'm looking at a KR2 with retractable gear and the guy was telling > me how much it would cost to put fixed gear on it. Is that something I > should consider? Is the retractable gear bad on the KR2's? > Thanks, Russ Houck. > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 00:42:28 -0500 From: "Russ & Brenda" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. Message-ID: <00fa01c32d80$c0126280$2321fea9@audiovideo> References: <3EE15DF6.000008.01604@dan><00da01c32d7b$3295a0c0$2321fea9@audiovideo> <008701c32d7e$cf3cbfa0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Are there modifications that can be done to the gear to fix the problem? Thanks, Russ. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:28 AM Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. > Russ, > The retractable gear if it is the original version has some bad points. They > have been known to collapse on touchdown causing a belly slide....not good. > Putting fixed gear on would be a smart move. You would not have to worry > about remembering to drop that gear to land it any more. Plus, that is just > one more kiss (keep it safe & simple) system. The cost of the gear depends > on what you want. Diehl conventional for example would be about $500 for a > new set and you would have to cut into the wings to mount them. Diehl's > tri-gear is about $1000 which also takes cutting into the wing to mount plus > adding a nose gear bracket. Then there are conventional gear made by Grove > which would mount to the bottom of the fuselage with minimal modifications. > Sorry, I do not know the cost of the Grove gear. Maybe someone else will > give you an approximation on that. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > > Hey gang, I'm looking at a KR2 with retractable gear and the guy was > telling > > me how much it would cost to put fixed gear on it. Is that something I > > should consider? Is the retractable gear bad on the KR2's? > > Thanks, Russ Houck. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:20:10 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. Message-ID: <3EE3461A.000013.01596@dan> References: <00da01c32d7b$3295a0c0$2321fea9@audiovideo> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 There really is no option here. The answer is "not". My first KR had a retract. After it collapsed 3 times, enough was enough. I converted it = to a "Grove" type fixed and never had another problem with it. If that gear collapses on you even once, it will cost you more than the conversion.=0D =0D The plane that I am partnered in now, had a retract on it when I started.= =20 However, part of our partnership agreement, was that the first thing, was= to put on a fixed gear. We have done that and used the Diehl type.=0D =0D Having done both, I can assure you that even though the Grove is more expensive, you will appreciate it's simplicity of application. I really like the Diehl gear now that it is on, but you can never inspect the poin= t of attachment. With the Grove, it is visible to you at all times.=0D =0D No question. Get rid of the retract.=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From n56ml@hiwaay.net Sun Jun 08 05:16:18 2003 Received: from ant.hiwaay.net ([216.180.54.10] helo=mail.hiwaay.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19Oz5u-000PPz-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 05:16:18 -0700 Received: from basement (user-24-214-106-120.knology.net [24.214.106.120]) by mail.hiwaay.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id h58CEDGK958223 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:14:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <041b01c32db7$847e9860$1202a8c0@basement> From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <00da01c32d7b$3295a0c0$2321fea9@audiovideo> <3EE3461A.000013.01596@dan> Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:14:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Grove gear for the KR is at http://www.groveaircraft.com/kr2.html . It looks like it's gone up to $770 recently, but it's still the way I'd go if I were doing it again. They will custom make them to whatever dimensions you want, and if you break it they'll replace it for free forever. It should be mentioned that Diehl (or Grove) fixed gear ends up being lighter, and the plane flies faster after ditching the retracts. Why? Because the retracts don't actually retract all the way. Ground clearance is also awfully low with the retracts. There's a reason why you don't see many with stock retracts anymore... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 08:41:32 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. Message-ID: <3EE3592C.000019.01596@dan> References: <041b01c32db7$847e9860$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 12 I found out about a month ago, that one of the old timers and long time h= old outs for the retract gear, is converting to fixed. I won't tell you who = it is, but he has been flying a KR as long or longer than anyone I know of. = I am sure that he would like to surprise everyone at the gathering this yea= r.=20 He didn't tell me why he was changing and I asked him which one he was converting to, and he did not reply to that.=0D =0D If anyone wants a set of retracts, I have almost 3 of them laying around here. I am using the spring bar from one of them as aluminum stock for making parts. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Sun Jun 08 05:43:14 2003 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19OzVy-000Phq-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 05:43:14 -0700 Received: from dan ([151.213.93.50]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20030608124110.BMQK8923.mta02-srv.alltel.net@dan> for ; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:41:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3EE35A2A.00001D.01596@dan> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 08:45:46 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001107.2001107) From: "Dan Heath" References: <041b01c32db7$847e9860$1202a8c0@basement> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: Re: KR>Grove gear for the KR is at http://www.groveaircraft.com/kr2.html . It looks like it's gone up to $770 recently Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I would go with the single piece because it will give you "little to no" alignment problems. Also, get it "gun drilled".=0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From skphil@charter.net Sun Jun 08 06:16:11 2003 Received: from rems04.cluster1.charter.net ([209.225.8.204]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19P01r-000PuF-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 06:16:11 -0700 Received: from [68.119.84.150] (account ) by rems04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 4.0.6) with HTTP id 1384986 for ; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 09:14:08 -0400 From: Subject: Re: KR>Grove or Diehl To: KR builders and pilots X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.4.0.6 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 09:14:08 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <041b01c32db7$847e9860$1202a8c0@basement> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 07:14:31 -0500 "Mark Langford" wrote: >Grove gear for the KR is at >http://www.groveaircraft.com/kr2.html . It >looks like it's gone up to $770 recently, but it's still >the way I'd go if I >were doing it again. Mark, Why do you think you would use the grove over the Diehl gear? I'm thinking of going to tri Diehl. But I could use the extra $500.00 for other items. I'll need to check out in a tail dragger. Steven Phillabaum Auburn Al ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 09:31:00 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Any builders/flyers in Switzerland?? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 I'll be in Lauterbrunnen, Kandersteg, Zermatt and Zerich later this month. Any builders/flyers close by? Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 09:34:45 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Any builders/flyers in Switzerland?? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 I don't know if my last post went through so excuse the inconvienience if it double posts. I'll be in Lauterbrunnen, Kandersteg, Zermatt and Zurich later this month. Any builders/flyers close by? Please contact me off the list. Thanks, Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 08:59:32 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Grove or Diehl Message-ID: <046701c32dc6$3014f440$1202a8c0@basement> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 Steven Phillabaum wrote: > Mark, Why do you think you would use the grove over the > Diehl gear? I'm thinking of going to tri Diehl. But I > could use the extra $500.00 for other items. Either Grove or Diehl gear can be made trigear or taildragger, but you'd need the Diehl nose gear in either case, since Grove doesn't make one that I know of. You just mount the Grove (or Diehl) main gear either in front of or behind the main spar to get the version you want. The attraction of the Grove gear is that you can install it without tearing into the wing, just bolt some brackets to the spar and bolt on the gear with about 4 bolts (through the floor, to the spar). If you bend it or break it, just bolt on another set, and you're done in no time. And alignment should be very close to start with. Not so with the Diehl gear, which depends on arbitrary "hail Mary" measurements made on the bench before they are even assembled to the plane. And the Grove gear can be bought gun-drilled for integral brake lines. And the biggie to me is that the Grove gear is taller, so slow, full-stall landings become an option. Dan Diehl is a great guy, and I feel bad about steering people away from his main gear. He's the guy that saved us from the stock retracts 30 years ago, and we owe him a lot for that. And I've been told that his Scotchply gear legs are an excellent material for landing gear legs. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:01:10 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: , Subject: Re: KR>www.flightsim.com. Message-ID: <3EE36BD6.000022.01596@dan> References: <003c01c32d66$916252c0$0201a8c0@rklucznik> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 16 Has anyone else tried www.flightsim.com. It does not come up for me. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Sun Jun 08 07:04:51 2003 Received: from mta01.alltel.net ([166.102.165.143] helo=mta01-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19P0mx-0000RB-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 07:04:51 -0700 Received: from dan ([151.213.93.50]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20030608140248.CYGF29207.mta01-srv.alltel.net@dan> for ; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 09:02:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3EE36D4B.000003.01580@dan> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:07:23 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001107.2001107) From: "Dan Heath" X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: 3.0 X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Sorry, My Bad on the flight sim not coming up X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Alltel DSL sucks. I thought I was connected, but it wasn't. Thanks for = the link. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From rjk1964@bellsouth.net Sun Jun 08 07:19:19 2003 Received: from mail223.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.58.193] helo=imf23bis.bellsouth.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 19P10x-0000Yr-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 08 Jun 2003 07:19:19 -0700 Received: from rklucznik ([65.80.212.131]) by imf23bis.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.25 201-253-122-122-125-20020815) with SMTP id <20030608141931.ENLF1346.imf23bis.bellsouth.net@rklucznik>; Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:19:31 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c32dc8$02fab600$0201a8c0@rklucznik> From: "RJK" To: "Dan Heath" , References: <003c01c32d66$916252c0$0201a8c0@rklucznik> <3EE36BD6.000022.01596@dan> Subject: Re: KR>www.flightsim.com. Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:12:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: RJK , KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Dan, I get on it all the time. I found a couple KR2 models on there. I = just tried it again 5 minutes ago, (6/8/03 @ 10am)opens up fine. =20 Rick Klucznik ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dan Heath=20 To: krnet@mylist.net ; rjk1964@bellsouth.net=20 Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 1:01 PM Subject: Re: KR>www.flightsim.com.=20 Has anyone else tried www.flightsim.com. It does not come up = for me.=20 N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Red Oak - 2003 See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org =20 =20 =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 10:35:03 EDT From: Flymaca711689@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>airscopes Message-ID: <1d3.b60ca69.2c14a397@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 can sobody till me what rv scope to use on the kr for ramair . or someone that makes scopes to save time !!!!!! billy mcfarland flymaca711689@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 10:25:37 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>KR2 or S Can you stretch one? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030608102537.007abb10@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <3EE27197.00000A.01596@dan> References: <20030607.160240.2364.0.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 18 > Hey, don't give up hope. Larry Flesner is a very tall person and I am >sure he will offer some good advise to you about that. Stretch, no, make it >fit, possible. >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ My KR is a 24" stretch, all behind the rear spar. I've not seen the KR2S plans but I believe is has some length added between the forward spar and the firewall. That would be good and I wish mine had the extra leg room. I doubt that I would take a finished or flying KR and try to lengthen it. I'm GUESSING it would be more trouble then building a new boat and the results would be less than pleasing. The poet in me loved the line in an eariler post,"your fuselage will have some discontinuous curves in it afterwards". What a polite way to say "your baby is ugly". There has to be a country song in there somewhere. I'm 6'4" and 200 pounds. I bought my project in the early boat stage which already had the 24" stretch. I raised the premolded forward deck 1 3/4" at the instrument panel station and cut 1" off the bottom of the instrument panel. I top mounted my rudder pedals and installed toe brakes. I built my seat and then had a friend take some measurements with me in the airplane. After I determined the height I needed for the canopy I built a bow for the turtledeck and windshield. I made the turtledeck bow to run vertical about 7 1/2" above the top longerons and from there arc to meet my height line. I found the outside edge of a 32 gallon trash can lid to have just the radius I was looking for. I raised, reshaped, and extended forward a premolded turtledeck to match the bow already mounted. I used the forward portion of a broken Pulsar canopy for a fixed windshield. I used foam and glass to extend vertically from the top longerons to the bottom of the windshield. With the windshield and turtledeck in place, I built the single gullwing door and removable right side panel. My gullwing door opens up 60 percent of the top as measured from top longeron to top longeron and seems to be just about right. A double gullwing system would have made for a tight entry or exit for both sides. You can see my results on Mark Langford's site and a few pictures on Mark Jones site. My advise, If you are more than 6' tall and 180 pounds, go the KR2S route. Buying what appears to be a "bargin" and getting an airplane that doesn't fit, that you have to do extensive mods, or don't enjoy flying is not going to be a "bargin" in the end. It will set for several years and then you will pass it on to someone else as a "bargin". Build or buy a 2S or find a project that is at a point where you can do the mods you think necessary to make it an airplane you will enjoy. Another point. Many builders wait to install the (permanent)seat until the project is well along. My advise, install the seat as soon as possible, take some measurements, and built the airplane to fit. Placement of very item inside the airplane from the firewall to the rear of the bagage area is best determined with you setting in the seat and doing a "fit" test. Rudder pedals, brakes, panel height and layout, switch locations, stick and throttle location, lighting, canopy, canopy latches, fuel system, entry/exit, etc. , etc., etc. I'm sure I spent more than an hour setting in my KR just to determine where I wanted my left side-mounted throttle to be mounted. After considerable "flight time" in the garage I built an entirely new panel with all switches and controls on the left side. The transponder and one switch are the only items I will ever have to switch hands on the control stick to operate. The first flight is not the time you want to find things you should have done differently. I'd best get off the computer and do something constructive on the KR if I'm going to make Red Oak in September. Happy building....... Larry Flesner ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 60, Issue 1 ************************************