From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 61, Issue 1 Date: Monday, June 09, 2003 11:42 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Grove or Diehl (Edwin Blocher) 2. Replies to 'Plane Trailer' (Phil Spurr) 3. N28GT - Anyone recognise this one ? (Phil Spurr) 4. Re: Retract or not. (Ed Janssen) 5. Re: N28GT - Anyone recognise this one ? (larry flesner) 6. Re: Re: Plane Trailer 7. William Wynne to speak at SAA Fly-In this weekend (Ed Janssen) 8. Re: www.flightsim.com. (Patrick Driscoll) 9. Further SAA Fly-In info link (Ed Janssen) 10. Aluminum tanks (William Clapp) 11. Re: Aluminum tanks 12. Re: Aluminum tanks (Dana Overall) 13. Re: Aluminum tanks (Kenneth L Wiltrout) 14. Re: Aluminum tanks (Dana Overall) 15. Re: Aluminum tanks (cartera) 16. Re: Aluminum tanks (Kenneth L Wiltrout) 17. hot battery (SPRAGUE, DONALD E. (JSC-SD) (KS)) 18. Re: Corvair in a KR2 (larry severson) 19. Re: Corvair in a KR2 (Mark Langford) 20. Re: ProSeal (Scott Cable) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:46:08 -0500 From: "Edwin Blocher" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Grove or Diehl Message-ID: <005b01c32df6$9bcfd6c0$0201a8c0@computer> References: <3.0.6.32.20030608105623.007e34c0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 One other nice thing about the Grove gear is that you can get it custom made in both height and width and designed for your max gross weight. Go to www.groveaircraft.com ,order their catalog, fill out the form with your measurements and get a quote. They are great people to deal with. Mine is designed for 1200# gross weight, gun drilled and drilled for Tracey O'Brien axels. Gear with Tracy o'Brien axels, brakes, tires and wheels weighs a total of 49#. ED Ed Blocher Santa Rosa Beach, FL eblocher@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: KR>Grove or Diehl > SNIP > And alignment should > >be very close to start with. Not so with the Diehl gear, which depends on > >arbitrary "hail Mary" measurements made on the bench before they are even > >assembled to the plane. > SNIP > And the biggie to me is that the Grove gear is > >taller, so slow, full-stall landings become an option. > SNIP > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > The alignment issue on the Diehl gear is much less of an issue > if the builder drills the four mounting holes in the lower bracket > but only one hole in the lower end of the leg. Mount the gear > leg and, with a single bolt holding the lower bracket in place, > do your alignment measurements/adjustments on the airplane. > > Some additional height could probably be gained on the Diehl > gear with "taller" lower end brackets as (I believe) Mark intends > to do. The longer lower bracket will add some additional > "twist" loads to the gear legs, especially on rougher fields, > but I SUSPECT the gear should handle it o.k. Be advised, > I'm NOT and engineer. > > Finally, if you decide to go the "Grove" route for the mains > and a Diehl nose gear, make sure they are compatable in > height so your three point attitude on the ground is > correct. That will be YOUR responsibility, not the suppliers. > > Good luck. > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 21:53:41 +0100 From: Phil Spurr To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Replies to 'Plane Trailer' Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 Hi All Thanks for the info re the trailer. Some good ideas and tips there ! I'll be considering it well when building / conversion starts, hopefully next week. Will keep you informed as to how it goes... Regards Phil phil.spurr@btopenworld.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 22:35:17 +0100 From: Phil Spurr To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>N28GT - Anyone recognise this one ? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 Hi All Have come across a photo of a tri-gear KR2 ( photo was taken in Mount Vernon, Texas, but the aircraft may have been only visiting) registered as N28GT. Does anyone on KRNet own this particular aircraft ? The reason is that from wing tips shown on the photo I believe that I have the same wings on my KR2 ( which I bought completed and without any of the original plans used ) , and I'm trying to identify all of the bits used where I can. Thanks Phil phil.spurr@btopenworld.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 17:36:55 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. Message-ID: <01d901c32e0e$76da8c80$6600a8c0@dad> References: <3EE15DF6.000008.01604@dan><00da01c32d7b$3295a0c0$2321fea9@audiovideo><008701c32d7e$cf3cbfa0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> <00fa01c32d80$c0126280$2321fea9@audiovideo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Russ, Yes, there have been many different "improved" versions of positive lock systems devised for the up and down positions for the retracts. Most I've seen over the years worked pretty good, although some were a bit complicated to operate. Quite a few designs are discussed in the archives - you may want to check them out. Being one of the KR "old timers", I personally prefer the looks of the KR with the wheels retracted (especially Don Betchan's KR-2's highly modified retracts that completely hide out within the wings and really give the plane a sleek appearance), although the tires stick out of the bottom of the wing a couple inches or so in the original design. Conventional (fixed) gear allows a bit longer prop to be used if needed, depending on the engine configuration. The shorter retracts haven't proved to be the best choice for rough fields either, as the plane will ride just inches from the grass. Most KRs you'll see these days will have the fixed gear option, which has proven to be probably the best overall configuration with regard to safety and simplicity. Dan Diehl converted his tailwheel KR-2 to fixed gear in "one long weekend", he's stated, but most guys will no doubt take much longer to do the job. Ed Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ & Brenda" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:42 AM Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. > Are there modifications that can be done to the gear to fix the problem? > Thanks, Russ. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Jones" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 12:28 AM > Subject: Re: KR>Retract or not. > > > > Russ, > > The retractable gear if it is the original version has some bad points. > They > > have been known to collapse on touchdown causing a belly slide....not > good. > > Putting fixed gear on would be a smart move. You would not have to worry > > about remembering to drop that gear to land it any more. Plus, that is > just > > one more kiss (keep it safe & simple) system. The cost of the gear depends > > on what you want. Diehl conventional for example would be about $500 for a > > new set and you would have to cut into the wings to mount them. Diehl's > > tri-gear is about $1000 which also takes cutting into the wing to mount > plus > > adding a nose gear bracket. Then there are conventional gear made by Grove > > which would mount to the bottom of the fuselage with minimal > modifications. > > Sorry, I do not know the cost of the Grove gear. Maybe someone else will > > give you an approximation on that. > > > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > > Wales, WI USA > > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > > > > > > Hey gang, I'm looking at a KR2 with retractable gear and the guy was > > telling > > > me how much it would cost to put fixed gear on it. Is that something I > > > should consider? Is the retractable gear bad on the KR2's? > > > Thanks, Russ Houck. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 17:57:07 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>N28GT - Anyone recognise this one ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030608175707.007bdb80@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 >Have come across a photo of a tri-gear KR2 ( photo was taken in Mount >Vernon, Texas, but the aircraft may have been only visiting) registered as >N28GT. Phil +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= I did a quick search on landings.com and got the folling message: Can't find 28GT If that is the correct N number the aircraft is no longer registered. Now back to the garage to do some more sanding. I'll be in the front row singing the loudest on Jim Faughn's KR song this year at Red Oak ! :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:36:36 EDT From: B109pro@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Re: Plane Trailer Message-ID: <11e.22736823.2c153ea4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Phil, I'm building (modifying) a boat trailer, I got for $100.00, and it is legal and wide enough for the stub wings. Best regards, Skip ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:22:38 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>William Wynne to speak at SAA Fly-In this weekend Message-ID: <002201c32e36$614d3f70$6600a8c0@dad> References: <3.0.6.32.20030607060630.007dad40@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 FYI -, A reminder to Sport Aviation Association members - Haven't seen this mentioned before on KRnet, but William Wynne and Grace Korosec are scheduled to conduct a forum on "Converting Corvair Engines" at the second annual SAA Fly-In, Frasca Field, Urbana, Illinois, June 14th (Sat.), 9:45-10:45 am. On Friday, June 13th there will also be additional forums. Some subjects are "Fiberglass", "Aircraft Covering" , and "Aircraft Painting." Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:14:29 -0500 From: "Patrick Driscoll" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>www.flightsim.com. Message-ID: <006201c32e35$3e00f3a0$fcdf6843@oemcomputer> References: <003c01c32d66$916252c0$0201a8c0@rklucznik> <3EE36BD6.000022.01596@dan> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Dan, Flight sim came up fine for me clicking on the link you had in your email. Pat Driscoll ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:43:02 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Further SAA Fly-In info link Message-ID: <000701c32e39$3a6ecf60$6600a8c0@dad> References: <3EE15DF6.000008.01604@dan><00da01c32d7b$3295a0c0$2321fea9@audiovideo><008701c32d7e$cf3cbfa0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com><00fa01c32d80$c0126280$2321fea9@audiovideo> <01d901c32e0e$76da8c80$6600a8c0@dad> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 In case anyone is further interested, SAA Fly-In info can be seen following this link: http://www.sportaviation.org/ Ed Janssen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 01:07:37 -0400 From: "William Clapp" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Aluminum tanks Message-ID: <003c01c32e45$0c085680$17fcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 10 After all the talk about the tanks, I looked at the one that Mark Jones = has and it reminded me of all te hours I spent repairing and sealing wet = wings and the horrible smell of the proseal. I would think that by now = there are better bonding agents for aluminum out there where one could = possible just glue aluminum panels together instead of riveting. = Anybody heard of anything like that? I am about ready to cut aluminum = for making my tanks and am still debating welding, riveting and proseal, = or any "new" options that I have not heard of. =20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 05:52:59 -0400 (EDT) From: foamhead@ls.net To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum tanks Message-ID: <36126.152.163.253.33.1055152379.squirrel@horace.ls.net> In-Reply-To: <003c01c32e45$0c085680$17fcd241@clapp> References: <003c01c32e45$0c085680$17fcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11 I am about ready to build my tanks. I am going to try alum. bonded with a vinyl ester/flox mixture. I will let you know how it works. Bob Farmer > After all the talk about the tanks, I looked at the one that Mark Jones > has and it reminded me of all te hours I spent repairing and sealing wet > wings and the horrible smell of the proseal. I would think that by now > there are better bonding agents for aluminum out there where one could > possible just glue aluminum panels together instead of riveting. Anybody > heard of anything like that? I am about ready to cut aluminum for making > my tanks and am still debating welding, riveting and proseal, or any "new" > options that I have not heard of. > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 07:00:26 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum tanks Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 Bob, since I am still receiving e-mails from the KRNet I'll throw this out too you. I would seriously recommend you rethink your idea to use vinyl ester resin/flox combination in building an aluminum tank. The tank, unless made as one piece, flexes. Proseal, or the product I'll mention later in this post, are made remain plyable and not become brittle as your resin/flox combination will do. Do what you want, it's just my opinion but you may get a tank that is leak proof until it's first go round with vibration. Remember, another decision factor in using aluminum tanks is the ability to use any type of fuel you want with no regard for additives. Some additives will adversely affect composite compositions. Proseal is messy but it is a product that is made for this use, there are others. I'm just familiar with Proseal and know how good it works. The new stuff Van's is recommending now is MC-236-B2 which is the quart number. I used less than a quart on Mark's tanks. In this case, I would seriously recommend one stick with products made for this use. Bob, I understand your desire to use products you have on hand or are familiar with but in this case I just really feel you will be disappointed in the final results when you have to go cutting into your foam wings to take out the tanks and replace them. As for gluing the sides together, when you put 10 gallons in the tank you have added 60 plus pounds. Add vibration throught the years and any "gluing" is going to be prone to separation. I still stick to my guns and say rivet is together for integrity and the piece of mind in knowing you will not have to cut your wings open to solve a problem that could have been avoided. I'll guarantee, the time you spend cutting a wing open is going to be in excess of the time you "saved" in cutting corners during the initial construction. The solid rivets I recommended in my documentation are going to cost you about $35.00, once again they are made for this arrangement. The bonding agent is $39.40. Is it worth saving $75.00 to reinvent the wheel?? I think Mark Jones can chime in on the plyability of the proseal and the rigidity of his wing tanks. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive >From: foamhead@ls.net >Reply-To: KR builders and pilots >To: "KR builders and pilots" >Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum tanks >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 05:52:59 -0400 (EDT) > >I am about ready to build my tanks. I am going to try alum. bonded with a >vinyl ester/flox mixture. I will let you know how it works. > >Bob Farmer > > > > > > > After all the talk about the tanks, I looked at the one that Mark Jones > > has and it reminded me of all te hours I spent repairing and sealing wet > > wings and the horrible smell of the proseal. I would think that by now > > there are better bonding agents for aluminum out there where one could > > possible just glue aluminum panels together instead of riveting. >Anybody > > heard of anything like that? I am about ready to cut aluminum for making > > my tanks and am still debating welding, riveting and proseal, or any >"new" > > options that I have not heard of. > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 07:27:21 -0400 From: Kenneth L Wiltrout To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum tanks Message-ID: <20030609.072721.2300.0.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Why not just alum weld the tank??????? On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 07:00:26 -0400 "Dana Overall" writes: > Bob, since I am still receiving e-mails from the KRNet I'll throw > this out > too you. I would seriously recommend you rethink your idea to use > vinyl > ester resin/flox combination in building an aluminum tank. The > tank, unless > made as one piece, flexes. Proseal, or the product I'll mention > later in > this post, are made remain plyable and not become brittle as your > resin/flox > combination will do. Do what you want, it's just my opinion but you > may get > a tank that is leak proof until it's first go round with vibration. > > Remember, another decision factor in using aluminum tanks is the > ability to > use any type of fuel you want with no regard for additives. Some > additives > will adversely affect composite compositions. > > Proseal is messy but it is a product that is made for this use, > there are > others. I'm just familiar with Proseal and know how good it works. > The new > stuff Van's is recommending now is MC-236-B2 which is the quart > number. I > used less than a quart on Mark's tanks. > > In this case, I would seriously recommend one stick with products > made for > this use. Bob, I understand your desire to use products you have on > hand or > are familiar with but in this case I just really feel you will be > disappointed in the final results when you have to go cutting into > your foam > wings to take out the tanks and replace them. As for gluing the > sides > together, when you put 10 gallons in the tank you have added 60 plus > pounds. > Add vibration throught the years and any "gluing" is going to be > prone to > separation. I still stick to my guns and say rivet is together for > > integrity and the piece of mind in knowing you will not have to cut > your > wings open to solve a problem that could have been avoided. I'll > guarantee, > the time you spend cutting a wing open is going to be in excess of > the time > you "saved" in cutting corners during the initial construction. The > solid > rivets I recommended in my documentation are going to cost you about > $35.00, > once again they are made for this arrangement. The bonding agent is > $39.40. > Is it worth saving $75.00 to reinvent the wheel?? > > I think Mark Jones can chime in on the plyability of the proseal and > the > rigidity of his wing tanks. > > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > RV-7 slider/fuselage > http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > > > > > >From: foamhead@ls.net > >Reply-To: KR builders and pilots > >To: "KR builders and pilots" > >Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum tanks > >Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 05:52:59 -0400 (EDT) > > > >I am about ready to build my tanks. I am going to try alum. bonded > with a > >vinyl ester/flox mixture. I will let you know how it works. > > > >Bob Farmer > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all the talk about the tanks, I looked at the one that > Mark Jones > > > has and it reminded me of all te hours I spent repairing and > sealing wet > > > wings and the horrible smell of the proseal. I would think that > by now > > > there are better bonding agents for aluminum out there where one > could > > > possible just glue aluminum panels together instead of riveting. > > >Anybody > > > heard of anything like that? I am about ready to cut aluminum > for making > > > my tanks and am still debating welding, riveting and proseal, or > any > >"new" > > > options that I have not heard of. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:05:47 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum tanks Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 Kenneth, aluminum welding would certainly be my first choice. With that said, so many KR builders don't want to use outside contractors in their construction. One of the construction parameters in designing the tank construction process used in Mark's tanks was the ability of the average KR builder to construct these tanks in his shop. Thus, the use of Proseal for leak integrity and rivets for structural integrity. These are both very well proven methods in tank construction. Another criteria was the ability to use the thinest material possible but still maintain adequate structure. I don't know enough about welding aluminum to even say whether you can weld weld .032. Remember, you want it as light as possible but not to the point of infringing upon structural integrity. I know Steve Eberhart is finishing contruction of his second tank, maybe he could chime in. Proseal is messy and smelly but I totally final constructed Mark's second tank on a Sunday late morning and early afternoon. As I remember, it took me 3.5 hours. Like childbirth, it's a pain you forget.........or so I hear. Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive >From: Kenneth L Wiltrout >Why not just alum weld the tank??????? > > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:01:05 -0600 From: cartera To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum tanks Message-ID: <3EE49321.7000306@cuug.ab.ca> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 Hello Gang, Dana is right the coefficient of expansion does not work well with epoxy as the sealant, rivets are the only the answer with the proper sealant. However, I just want to expand of the use of vinylester in tank construction. Vinylester is impervious to all acids and chemicals, fuel, this is used in chemical factories where a 20 foot piece of pipe can be placed on ones shoulder be it 2" or 6". I have seen these pipes used in the petroleum industry which we have a lot up here. Only thing is to leave a hole in the top so one can put your arm in to fill the corners and then patch, this is what I used in my KR and nary a leak in 20 years, use the balloon trick to check for leakage. Just a pointer to inform that aluminum is not the only way to go. It is easier to custom build this way. Good Luck and Happy Flying! Dana Overall wrote: > Bob, since I am still receiving e-mails from the KRNet I'll throw this > out too you. I would seriously recommend you rethink your idea to use > vinyl ester resin/flox combination in building an aluminum tank. The > tank, unless made as one piece, flexes. Proseal, or the product I'll > mention later in this post, are made remain plyable and not become > brittle as your resin/flox combination will do. Do what you want, it's > just my opinion but you may get a tank that is leak proof until it's > first go round with vibration. Remember, another decision factor in > using aluminum tanks is the ability to use any type of fuel you want > with no regard for additives. Some additives will adversely affect > composite compositions. > > Proseal is messy but it is a product that is made for this use, there > are others. I'm just familiar with Proseal and know how good it works. > The new stuff Van's is recommending now is MC-236-B2 which is the quart > number. I used less than a quart on Mark's tanks. > > In this case, I would seriously recommend one stick with products made > for this use. Bob, I understand your desire to use products you have on > hand or are familiar with but in this case I just really feel you will > be disappointed in the final results when you have to go cutting into > your foam wings to take out the tanks and replace them. As for gluing > the sides together, when you put 10 gallons in the tank you have added > 60 plus pounds. Add vibration throught the years and any "gluing" is > going to be prone to separation. I still stick to my guns and say rivet > is together for integrity and the piece of mind in knowing you will not > have to cut your wings open to solve a problem that could have been > avoided. I'll guarantee, the time you spend cutting a wing open is > going to be in excess of the time you "saved" in cutting corners during > the initial construction. The solid rivets I recommended in my > documentation are going to cost you about $35.00, once again they are > made for this arrangement. The bonding agent is $39.40. Is it worth > saving $75.00 to reinvent the wheel?? > > I think Mark Jones can chime in on the plyability of the proseal and the > rigidity of his wing tanks. > > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > RV-7 slider/fuselage > http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > > > > >> From: foamhead@ls.net >> Reply-To: KR builders and pilots >> To: "KR builders and pilots" >> Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum tanks >> Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 05:52:59 -0400 (EDT) >> >> I am about ready to build my tanks. I am going to try alum. bonded with a >> vinyl ester/flox mixture. I will let you know how it works. >> >> Bob Farmer >> >> >> >> >> >> > After all the talk about the tanks, I looked at the one that Mark Jones >> > has and it reminded me of all te hours I spent repairing and sealing >> wet >> > wings and the horrible smell of the proseal. I would think that by now >> > there are better bonding agents for aluminum out there where one could >> > possible just glue aluminum panels together instead of riveting. >> Anybody >> > heard of anything like that? I am about ready to cut aluminum for >> making >> > my tanks and am still debating welding, riveting and proseal, or any >> "new" >> > options that I have not heard of. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html >> > >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > -- Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:17:19 -0400 From: Kenneth L Wiltrout To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Aluminum tanks Message-ID: <20030609.121719.2300.1.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Understood--------------------Thanks! On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 08:05:47 -0400 "Dana Overall" writes: > Kenneth, aluminum welding would certainly be my first choice. With > that > said, so many KR builders don't want to use outside contractors in > their > construction. One of the construction parameters in designing the > tank > construction process used in Mark's tanks was the ability of the > average KR > builder to construct these tanks in his shop. Thus, the use of > Proseal for > leak integrity and rivets for structural integrity. These are both > very > well proven methods in tank construction. > > Another criteria was the ability to use the thinest material > possible but > still maintain adequate structure. I don't know enough about > welding > aluminum to even say whether you can weld weld .032. Remember, you > want it > as light as possible but not to the point of infringing upon > structural > integrity. > > I know Steve Eberhart is finishing contruction of his second tank, > maybe he > could chime in. Proseal is messy and smelly but I totally final > constructed > Mark's second tank on a Sunday late morning and early afternoon. As > I > remember, it took me 3.5 hours. Like childbirth, it's a pain you > forget.........or so I hear. > > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY > RV-7 slider/fuselage > http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > > > > > >From: Kenneth L Wiltrout > >Why not just alum weld the tank??????? > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 12:27:09 -0500 From: "SPRAGUE, DONALD E. (JSC-SD) (KS)" To: "'krnet@mylist.net.'" Subject: KR>hot battery Message-ID: <7C3C0FB750552747873452E91E6D06F9EEE6BA@jsc-mail08.jsc.nasa.gov> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPartTM-000-f028d45c-2ac7-4de6-9c94-804c7236f7e3" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------=_NextPartTM-000-f028d45c-2ac7-4de6-9c94-804c7236f7e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Netters, I've just recently started doing some extensive taxiing in a KR I bought last year (completed but not flown yet). The battery, garden tractor type, died and I replaced it with an AGM-fiberglass matrix battery. The battery is mounted on the engine side of the firewall and the starboard exhaust pipe runs within an inch of it. The pipe is wrapped with a heatproof cloth. After a couple hours of ground work, runups and taxiing, the battery case has become deformed from the heat of the exhaust pipe, though it still functions. Is there a way to shield the battery effectively or duct blast air between it and the exhaust pipe? Anyone else had this problem? Don (Houston, TX). ------=_NextPartTM-000-f028d45c-2ac7-4de6-9c94-804c7236f7e3-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:25:34 -0700 From: larry severson To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Corvair in a KR2 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030609112342.02cb8f98@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <01a601c32c75$a60e0bc0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <1d1.b0e5200.2c100456@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20030605094522.00793860@pop.midwest.net> <3.0.6.32.20030606072701.007acce0@pop.midwest.net> <001001c32c4a$7a105a80$2321fea9@audiovideo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 18 >As for one that's actually FLYING, there's not a KR2S flying a Corvair YET, >but there will be several shortly. There ARE two KR2s flying behind a >Corvair, one belonging to Steve Makish, and the other belongs to Bob Lester, >both of Boca Raton, FL. 30HH was just sold for $5500. It has flown with a corvair engine for some time. However, it was not an efficient setup getting 135 MPH at 5.5 GPH. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:38:27 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Corvair in a KR2 Message-ID: <00db01c32eb6$5262fb50$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> References: <1d1.b0e5200.2c100456@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20030605094522.00793860@pop.midwest.net> <3.0.6.32.20030606072701.007acce0@pop.midwest.net> <001001c32c4a$7a105a80$2321fea9@audiovideo> <5.1.0.14.0.20030609112342.02cb8f98@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 Larry Severson wrote: > 30HH was just sold for $5500. It has flown with a corvair engine for some > time. However, it was not an efficient setup getting 135 MPH at 5.5 GPH. Yes, I knew about that one. Inefficient, for sure. It's the one that was pulled directly from a Corvair and hung on an airplane, blower fan and all! That costs about 6 or 7 horsepower right there, and I also believe it used the stock carburetors, which have no mixture control, hence the high fuel burn rate. And it had the stock cam, which is pretty inefficient at 3000 rpm. Not one of the better thought out "conversions", but an example of one that's been flying for something like 20 years, nonetheless. I'd love to know more about it (like how many hours it's flown) if anybody knows... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:38:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>ProSeal Message-ID: <20030609183839.24113.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <003c01c32e45$0c085680$17fcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 20 ProSeal is still what is used most often in aerospace, there was a 3M epoxy called metalset, which was light green color that we used to bond nonstructural aluminum pieces together on the Apache, and was also used to bond the skin to the spars and leading / trailing edges of the main rotor blades. all of these applications were dry. As messy and smelly as ProSeal is, it's very good at sealing aluminum. We were required to use ProSeal on all electrically "bonded" joints on the Apache. All grounding studs etc. received ProSeal after testing for electrical "bond". You can imagine how much "fun" it was trying to avoid this stuff while working on the transmission deck or cockpits! William Clapp wrote:After all the talk about the tanks, I looked at the one that Mark Jones has and it reminded me of all te hours I spent repairing and sealing wet wings and the horrible smell of the proseal. I would think that by now there are better bonding agents for aluminum out there where one could possible just glue aluminum panels together instead of riveting. Anybody heard of anything like that? I am about ready to cut aluminum for making my tanks and am still debating welding, riveting and proseal, or any "new" options that I have not heard of. _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).From larry2@socal.rr.com Mon Jun 09 11:41:32 2003 Received: from orngca-mls01.socal.rr.com ([66.75.160.16]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19PRaG-000Ayv-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:41:32 -0700 Received: from SteveCanyon.socal.rr.com (cpe-66-75-117-49.socal.rr.com [66.75.117.49]) by orngca-mls01.socal.rr.com (8.11.4/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h59IalM12235 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20030609113758.02cca5c8@pop-server.socal.rr.com> X-Sender: larry2@pop-server.socal.rr.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:39:32 -0700 To: KR builders and pilots From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR>KR2 Simulator In-Reply-To: <3EE2638F.000008.01596@dan> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I have MS2002 complete with controls and peddles, and would love to work with a KR2 model for it. When you try that KR2S that I sent you, let me know how it works and if you >make any improvements to it, I would like to try them. I have never used it > but my new computer, joy stick, and MS Simulator will be here on Monday. > > > >Do you have rudder pedals? Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 61, Issue 1 ************************************