From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 81, Issue 1 Date: Sunday, June 29, 2003 6:37 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? (Brian Kraut) 2. RE: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? (Bob Lee) 3. Re: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? (Mark Langford) 4. Re: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? (Gene Lukan) 5. RE: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? (David McKelvey4764) 6. Re: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? (Rick Wilson) 7. Re: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? (cartera) 8. Re: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? (Mark Langford) 9. NACA ducts (Gary W. Haun) 10. Re: NACA ducts (Mark Langford) 11. Re: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? (Ron Eason) 12. Rust and stuff 13. Re: 290 GPU (Russ & Brenda) 14. Re: chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel?/24" reamer (Robert Tate Gann) 15. ivoprop (larry severson) 16. corrosion on 4130 steel (Harold Woods) 17. Re: 290 GPU (Justin) 18. Re: ivoprop (Justin) 19. Re: 290 GPU (Russ & Brenda) 20. Re: 290gpu 21. Re: 290 GPU (Mark Langford) 22. prop (larry flesner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:43:04 -0400 From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Message-ID: <3EFDEFC8.2070303@earthlink.net> References: <011d01c33d9d$84d88cd0$1202a8c0@basement> <001101c33d9f$babb3030$74710c44@blah> <012801c33da0$7abf6090$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Powder coating adds probably a little more than that. I design bridge consoles for ships and we have to run taps back through all the tapped holes and make sure none of the clearance holes are too tight. I use Tool Black from Precision Brand Products in my machine shop for steel parts. It is a black oxide coating and adds only something like .0002 to the material. You can buy it from www.use-enco.com . You can also use gun blue from your local Wal Mart gun department. With either of these you still need to oil the part. They make more of a porus surface to hold the oil than a coating to prevent corrosion. I wrote a product review on the Tool Black that was in the March/April 2001 issue of The Home Shop Machinist that had some instructions. Contact me if you want an emailed copy. Mark Langford wrote: >Mark Youkey wrote: > >>I looked in "The Science and Engineering of Materials" and found that >>perhaps the best way is to zinc plate the steel. >> > > Hey, I have that book too! Guess I should have opened it. > >Actually, I'm looking for something I can do at home, but I may have to go >that way. I also considered powder painting it, which is supposed to be >only .002" thick, but last time I had something coated it looked more like a >.100", and had runs all over it. They make home-brew kits, so that might be >an idea. But plating is a distinct possibility, assuming they can handle >something 8 feet long. Waxing may just get me there too, as long as I >inpect it every time the wings are off, and it'll make it operate with less >friction. Call me optimistic on this one... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >N56ML "at" hiwaay.net >see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:42:53 -0400 From: "Bob Lee" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00ee01c33d87$a1e14440$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Mark, >From the photo, it's not clear to me where you are mounting the motor end of the flap actuator. I would suggest that you include a walking beam from the motor end of the flap actuator to a tab on the bottom of the flap torque tube. This will resolve the pull or push force on the flap torque tube and only leave a resulting torque on the flap torque tube. A square al tube could easily be used as the walking beam. It could extend to the rear spar and be attached to the rear spar with a short link to resolve the in and out motion as the flap motor extends and contracts as well as the net torque on the flap torque tube. The result is very light structural loads to be resolved by very strong parts of the aircraft structure. The floor is not sufficiently rigid to preclude flex that could result in change of flap deflection angle. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, so take a look at this link to see what I'm talking about: http://flyboybob.com/images/kr2/flapwalkingbeam.jpg. I used a very sophisticated freeware drafting package called bob-draw-pro so no comments about the quality of the drawing, you get what you pay for. Regards, Bob Lee ______________________________ N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024 91% done only 51% to go! Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501 mailto:bob@flyboybob.com http://flyboybob.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:59:52 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Message-ID: <016001c33daf$d6fd4700$1202a8c0@basement> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Bob Lee wrote: > >From the photo, it's not clear to me where you are mounting the motor end of > the flap actuator. I would suggest that you include a walking beam from the > motor end of the flap actuator to a tab on the bottom of the flap torque > tube. Good point, and I'm sure it would work great, but the flap motor will only need to work hard when deploying the flaps, which is pulling the tube in the photo. Pushing the tube will retract the flaps, but I'll have air pressure helping out there, so it won't be working very hard in that direction. That's why I didn't bother to completely surround the tube with nylon bearing surface. I saved weight and hassle that way. PLUS, now that the flap bellcrank can actually be pushed too far in retraction, I can get a little bit of "spring" action by deflecting and twisting the torque tube and keep the flaps tightly retracted without any slop. Another thing is that I don't have room for anyting bigger than the actuator's tube. Any higher and I'd be into the bottom of the seat (and I don't want to limit my butt by an armrest), and any lower and I'd be through the floor. The bracket has since been installed, and is an aluminum angle. I reinforced the floor with two more layers of plywood (to answer your stiffness question). The plywood is built up in tiers to spread the load out over a large area, so I think I've taken care of that. The only reason I haven't replaced that picture with a newer one is that I don't have the flap torque tube back in place yet, so I'm too lazy to do it twice, but when I do I'll post it... Thanks, Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:01:54 -0600 From: "Gene Lukan" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Message-ID: <002801c33db0$1f3dfb40$7c92ad8e@ab.hsia.telus.net> References: <00ee01c33d87$a1e14440$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Mark, There is a teflon coating available at some of the powder coating shops that should work. They use it up here in the oil patch on nuts and bolts, and other applications, in corrosive environments. It enables nuts to be removed whereas previously a cutting torch was the only solution. I had some 4130 bushing coated with the stuff, it's called "dryfilm" on the bill and it is very thin. Gene Lukan elukan@telusplanet.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 9:12 AM Subject: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:04:19 -0500 From: "David McKelvey4764" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <011d01c33d9d$84d88cd0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Mark, You are correct. Alodine is for aluminum and magnesium. I'll need to run over to the shop and get the name of the stuff you use on steel, it's a clear blue liquid if that rings a bell. Sorry for the confusion. Dave -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 12:49 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Dave McKelvey wrote: > Mark, I've used alodine (1204 I think, I'll double check). I used it to > treat some torx bits that started rusting as well as steel hardware, I don't > think it's hard to find but I don't remember where I got my bottle. You do > want to clean it real well first and it will give it a flat black finish > otherwise it comes out brown. I thought Alodine was for aluminm, not steel. And my bottle of Alodine 1201 says "Chemical Coating for Aluminum" on it. Right now I have a piece of 4130 out in the sunny front yard that I mist every hour or so. One end is bare, and the other end I waxed with Blue Coral Poly Sealant. That'll be a data point after a few weeks, but so far one end is rusting, and the other looks new... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 13:15:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Wilson To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Message-ID: <20030628201504.22682.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <012801c33da0$7abf6090$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 Mark, If you know of a gun shop in your area they may be able to help you. Some of the larger shops have bluing or rebluing services. The metal is dipped in lye at a certain temperature to hot blue it, but some places have a cold bluing kit. Just a suggestion, Rick Wilson. rwdw2002@yahoo.com P.S. (This would make it look like a gun barrel) it would still have to be oiled, but wouldn't be nearly as susceptible to rust. --- Mark Langford wrote: > Mark Youkey wrote: > > > I looked in "The Science and Engineering of > Materials" and found that > > perhaps the best way is to zinc plate the steel. > > Hey, I have that book too! Guess I should have > opened it. > > Actually, I'm looking for something I can do at > home, but I may have to go > that way. I also considered powder painting it, > which is supposed to be > only .002" thick, but last time I had something > coated it looked more like a > .100", and had runs all over it. They make > home-brew kits, so that might be > an idea. But plating is a distinct possibility, > assuming they can handle > something 8 feet long. Waxing may just get me there > too, as long as I > inpect it every time the wings are off, and it'll > make it operate with less > friction. Call me optimistic on this one... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 14:35:40 -0600 From: cartera To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Message-ID: <3EFDFC1C.9020307@cuug.ab.ca> References: <00ee01c33d87$a1e14440$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Use a reamer they come in all sizes! Mark Langford wrote: > Some of you guys might know the answer to this, and since it's been quiet > I'll throw this out. My flap torque tube is a piece of .75" 4130 steel > tubing that extends from one end of the stub wing to the other, right > through the cockpit, where I have an RV flap motor attached to it by way of > a clamp-on bellcrank (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/03060120.jpg ). > I got smart a while back and painted it along with some other stuff, but the > fit was so tight on the holes that there's no way it'll fit back in the same > holes, and enlarging them would be very tough. Is there some thin chemical > conversion coating that I can apply to the new bare one that bought that > will keep it from rusting, while not adding a bunch to the outside diameter? > I even thought about waxing it, but if it doesn't work I'll have to take the > wings off to try something else, which sounds painful. > > I suppose worst case is that I figure out a way to open up the holes, so I'm > open to suggestions on that too. I guess I could "booger" up the tube a > little with burrs on one end and run it through while somehow rotating it > with a huge drill and open it up, but that doen't sound very exact, or > appealing. It's such a nice fit right now... > > Thanks, > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > -- THIS NAME AND ADDRESS IS NOT FOR SALE, RESALE OR TRADING!!!!!!!!! Adrian VE6AFY Calgary, Alberta Mailto:cartera@cuug.ab.ca http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~cartera ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 15:54:46 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Message-ID: <019201c33db7$825ba720$1202a8c0@basement> References: <00ee01c33d87$a1e14440$1202a8c0@basement> <3EFDFC1C.9020307@cuug.ab.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Adrian Carter wrote: > Use a reamer they come in all sizes! I'm not so sure they make one 24" long, and even if they did, I'd have to take out a loan to buy it. And I'd have to buy a huge drill to turn it... After the Teflon dry film suggestion I tried some Moly dry film that I had laying around. The folks at work trashed a case of it because it had expired. I had previously thought that it would just wipe off, but it's pretty much there to stay. I might try another sample, and take it to the beach with us shortly, for the ultimate test... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:05:15 -0500 From: "Gary W. Haun" To: Subject: KR>NACA ducts Message-ID: <000501c33db8$f8f49080$7501a8c0@haun4> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 I=92ve downloaded the NACA Submerged Inlet Data drawing provided by I believe, Mark Langford, but after working all night I=92m having some trouble understanding the direction of airflow through the duct. For explanation ease let=92s consider an airplane flying left to right with the airflow right to left over the fuselage. To act as an inlet, does the narrow, shallow end point into the airflow? Conversely, to use as an airflow exit duct does the broad end face forwards? =20 =20 =20 Gary W. Haun g.haun@insightbb.com KR-1, #5989, Master file #79 =20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release Date: 6/18/2003 =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:11:13 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>NACA ducts Message-ID: <019a01c33db9$cec4e480$1202a8c0@basement> References: <000501c33db8$f8f49080$7501a8c0@haun4> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 10 > I=92ve downloaded the NACA Submerged Inlet Data drawing provided by = I > believe, Mark Langford, but after working all night I=92m having some > trouble understanding the direction of airflow through the duct. For > explanation ease let=92s consider an airplane flying left to right with > the airflow right to left over the fuselage. To act as an inlet, does > the narrow, shallow end point into the airflow? Conversely, to use as a= n > airflow exit duct does the broad end face forwards? Does the photo at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/nacaducts/02082310.jpg give you a clue? Basically, you put the small end whereever the high spe= ed air is, and the wide end where you're trying to slow the flow down (such = as your engine's cylinder fins). Hence, since I have slow air coming out of= my cowling and want to re-accelerate it back to the free stream speed that t= he airplane is seeing, the small end faces rear for this application, but would face forward if you were trying to duct air to the carb, engine, or interior. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 16:48:39 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? Message-ID: <00b801c33dbf$0916c180$6401a8c0@Administration> References: <00ee01c33d87$a1e14440$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Use a good oil with corrosion inhibiters in it similar to cosmolene but better. Same as those use in over seas shipping. I can't recall a manufacture. KRRon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 10:12 AM Subject: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? > Some of you guys might know the answer to this, and since it's been quiet > I'll throw this out. My flap torque tube is a piece of .75" 4130 steel > tubing that extends from one end of the stub wing to the other, right > through the cockpit, where I have an RV flap motor attached to it by way of > a clamp-on bellcrank (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/03060120.jpg ). > I got smart a while back and painted it along with some other stuff, but the > fit was so tight on the holes that there's no way it'll fit back in the same > holes, and enlarging them would be very tough. Is there some thin chemical > conversion coating that I can apply to the new bare one that bought that > will keep it from rusting, while not adding a bunch to the outside diameter? > I even thought about waxing it, but if it doesn't work I'll have to take the > wings off to try something else, which sounds painful. > > I suppose worst case is that I figure out a way to open up the holes, so I'm > open to suggestions on that too. I guess I could "booger" up the tube a > little with burrs on one end and run it through while somehow rotating it > with a huge drill and open it up, but that doen't sound very exact, or > appealing. It's such a nice fit right now... > > Thanks, > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 18:31:32 -0500 From: To: "KR Builders and Flyers" , "Mark Langford" Subject: KR>Rust and stuff Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Mark, In the marine business in southWET Florida I've learned to use a product called OSPHO, and it's a rust converter. Recently, I needed some here in Indiana and couldn't find any, so I bought a product at Menards (kinda like Lowes and Home Depot). It's by KleenStrip, which is a recognizable brand and available brand. There are two kinds of Rust, FE2O3 and FE3O2, and I can never recall which is which. BUT, if you pick up some 4130 tubing or plate you'll see that it is very dark in color. That's the good rust, and if you'll take some sandpaper and clean some of it off, you'll get the Orange stuff we commonly call rust (usually overnight). That black coating normally forms at a higher temperature, which is why your welded parts have dark joints, and hold up pretty well with no support on your part. The OSPHO or RustConverter turns red rust into the black kind, and it's quite hard, and you should paint right over it. In my usages, it seems to do somewhat the same thing on bare steel too. It's complicated chemically, but easy to do. It's why we also just wire brush a welded airframe and NEVER clean it "bright" before chromating (ancient technology) or epoxy painting You must first clean off scale and oil. After treating the holes and your scraped up bolts, I would then put some epoxy on them and push them into place. Another thought; you can get an adjustable reamer at a machine shop. Those have a small screw protruding from the "business" end, and you can adjust them up to maybe .005 over nominal size. Bring those holes out to a reasonable fit, and use new bolts while you're at it. There's many an aircraft bolt that's been scraped a bit at assembly, and we never hear much about it if they're in a dry location. Keep on keepin' on..... Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 19:11:21 -0500 From: "Russ & Brenda" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>290 GPU Message-ID: <00c201c33dd2$f8b45460$2321fea9@audiovideo> References: <002101c33ca9$b0ca66a0$92fcfea9@o0c8u6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 We have a KR2S that is stretched an additional 4 in in the center. Has any one used on of the GPU engines and if so what were the results? Does this sound reasonable? Does anyone know the weight of these units and what's required to convert them to aircraft use? Thanks, Russ Houck. see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 21:23:03 -0500 From: "Robert Tate Gann" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel?/24" reamer Message-ID: <00b401c33de5$5fb972a0$80c78d41@com> References: <00ee01c33d87$a1e14440$1202a8c0@basement><3EFDFC1C.9020307@cuug.ab.ca> <019201c33db7$825ba720$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Hello all, I'm new to the list. I have silently been following it for months but here I think I might can contribute. You don't need to purchase a 24" long reamer. What you can do is purchase a chucking reamer. I would recommend for this application getting an expandable type, your tube being .750 you can over expand the reamer to give you your desired diameter. Enco Tools lists this reamer here, http://www.use-enco.com/pdfs/259.PDF for $26.73. There are many other sources. The shank of the reamer will be a smaller diameter than the flutes.( on a .750 the shank will be approximately .687 if I remember.) Turn the first 3/4" to 1" of the shank down to 7/16" diameter. ( If you do not have access to a lathe this can be done using a belt/ disk sander or a bench grinder.) Take a piece of 24" long 5/8" diameter cold roll or hot roll steel and drill a 7/16" hole into one end. I have also used black pipe for this. Insert the turned down reamer shank into the hole in the steel and weld the two together using care to align the two as close as possible. Dress any weld splatter or buildup down smaller than your reamer. I have used this trick many times over the last 17 years at work. It is much cheaper than purchasing an extended reamer. Tate Gann Henderson, Tn. > Adrian Carter wrote: > > > Use a reamer they come in all sizes! > > I'm not so sure they make one 24" long, and even if they did, I'd have to > take out a loan to buy it. And I'd have to buy a huge drill to turn it... > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 20:02:21 -0700 From: larry severson To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>ivoprop Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20030628195359.024cceb0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <000801c33b8e$d4d305a0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 Is anyone familiar with the in-flight adjustable prop by Ivoprop? I plan to visit airports at a variety of MSL from SL to 6000 ft. It seems like the only answer. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 23:14:18 -0400 From: "Harold Woods" To: Subject: KR>corrosion on 4130 steel Message-ID: <00a901c33dec$8767aa40$08ee6418@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 16 Marks problem of corrosion on the torque tube for his ailerons might be = solved by the use of "rust proof compound L". This was a grease that was = developed in the 1940s to prevent the rusting of military supplies=20 sent by boat to the South Pacific. I forget which company made it. It = sticks to metal like the proverbial sh*t to a blanket. You can apply it = to workshop machines like drill press columns and it will be there years = later. It is a grease and as such is a lubricant. Harold Woods Orillia, ON,Can. haroldwoods@rogers.comFrom ECLarsen81@aol.com Sat Jun 28 22:14:48 2003 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19WUWV-000Ki6-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:14:47 -0700 Received: from ECLarsen81@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.1ac.170bc4cd (4196) for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2003 01:13:34 -0400 (EDT) From: ECLarsen81@aol.com Message-ID: <1ac.170bc4cd.2c2fcf7e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 01:13:34 EDT Subject: Re: KR>chemical corrosion coating for 4130 steel? To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Mark, You could use a self etching wash primer like the PPG DP 701, it's a two equal part mix. By asking at the local jobber store (Auto Value here) you could find who is using it locally and get a pint. I think the smallest they sell is quart and you won't need a half gallon of the stuff. Swab the inside of the tube like you would a gun barrel, and spray the outside with enough to wet it. Same as if using zinc cromate. I use it all the time at our shop for repair and rebuild work and it works great. Ed Larsen Ypsi, MI << Mark Langford wrote: > Some of you guys might know the answer to this, and since it's been quiet > I'll throw this out. My flap torque tube is a piece of .75" 4130 steel > tubing that extends from one end of the stub wing to the other, right > through the cockpit, where I have an RV flap motor attached to it by way of > a clamp-on bellcrank (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/03060120.jpg ). > I got smart a while back and painted it along with some other stuff, but the > fit was so tight on the holes that there's no way it'll fit back in the same > holes, and enlarging them would be very tough. Is there some thin chemical > conversion coating that I can apply to the new bare one that bought that > will keep it from rusting, while not adding a bunch to the outside diameter? > I even thought about waxing it, but if it doesn't work I'll have to take the > wings off to try something else, which sounds painful. > > I suppose worst case is that I figure out a way to open up the holes, so I'm > open to suggestions on that too. I guess I could "booger" up the tube a > little with burrs on one end and run it through while somehow rotating it > with a huge drill and open it up, but that doen't sound very exact, or > appealing. It's such a nice fit right now... > > Thanks, > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:22:22 -0500 From: "Justin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>290 GPU Message-ID: <003101c33ded$a78a0650$81dd1818@computer> References: <002101c33ca9$b0ca66a0$92fcfea9@o0c8u6> <00c201c33dd2$f8b45460$2321fea9@audiovideo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 An O-290 GPU engine. This guy is running just that. Not flying yet but in contruction of it.Obvously heavier than a corvair and not near as much HP so why you would want that engine is beyond me ut there you have it. http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/index.html Justin KR2S ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russ & Brenda" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 7:11 PM Subject: Re: KR>290 GPU > We have a KR2S that is stretched an additional 4 in in the center. Has any > one used on of the GPU engines and if so what were the results? Does this > sound reasonable? Does anyone know the weight of these units and what's > required to convert them to aircraft use? > Thanks, > Russ Houck. > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:25:12 -0500 From: "Justin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>ivoprop Message-ID: <003b01c33dee$0ce32770$81dd1818@computer> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030628195359.024cceb0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 I am somewhat familiar with that prop. I wont be using it because it doesnt actually move the blades but "tweaks" them to change pitch. Fiberglass blades that will have fatiage and many reports of these props failing in flight.I plan on using this prop. www.climbandcruise.com Justin KR2S ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry severson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 10:02 PM Subject: KR>ivoprop > > > Is anyone familiar with the in-flight adjustable prop by Ivoprop? I plan to > visit airports at a variety of MSL from SL to 6000 ft. It seems like the > only answer. > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:19:28 -0500 From: "Russ & Brenda" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>290 GPU Message-ID: <010101c33dfe$0419e7e0$2321fea9@audiovideo> References: <002101c33ca9$b0ca66a0$92fcfea9@o0c8u6><00c201c33dd2$f8b45460$2321fea9@audiovideo> <003101c33ded$a78a0650$81dd1818@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 Hey Justin, the information I have is that the engine weighs 245 pounds and produces between 115 and 130 hp depending on carb and fuel. Is that correct or not? Thanks, Russ. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 10:22 PM Subject: Re: KR>290 GPU > An O-290 GPU engine. This guy is running just that. Not flying yet but in > contruction of it.Obvously heavier than a corvair and not near as much HP so > why you would want that engine is beyond me ut there you have it. > > http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/index.html > > Justin > KR2S > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Russ & Brenda" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 7:11 PM > Subject: Re: KR>290 GPU > > > > We have a KR2S that is stretched an additional 4 in in the center. Has any > > one used on of the GPU engines and if so what were the results? Does this > > sound reasonable? Does anyone know the weight of these units and what's > > required to convert them to aircraft use? > > Thanks, > > Russ Houck. > > > > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 03:58:56 EDT From: BABYWOLF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>290gpu Message-ID: <50.1f03255e.2c2ff640@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 20 i had a gpu in a stits skycoup. was hard to get infor on the engine Faa has requires a mod on the oil pump and a reinforcement on the crank flange engine swallowed a valve with about 400 hrs on it these engines are very similar to the ones used in piper colts i believe they need mods on the valves to use 100 ll ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 07:39:29 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>290 GPU Message-ID: <020401c33e3b$7e903b40$1202a8c0@basement> References: <002101c33ca9$b0ca66a0$92fcfea9@o0c8u6><00c201c33dd2$f8b45460$2321fea9@audiovideo><003101c33ded$a78a0650$81dd1818@computer> <010101c33dfe$0419e7e0$2321fea9@audiovideo> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 21 Russ wrote: > Hey Justin, the information I have is that the engine weighs 245 pounds and > produces between 115 and 130 hp depending on carb and fuel. Is that correct > or not? Russ, I'd check into the prices for parts for the 0-290 before I jumped. If I remember correctly, three years ago Mike Mims had to pay $70 for ONE top ring for his, and I wouldn't swear it was even new! I'm no expert on aircraft engines, but my understanding is that parts for that particular engine are very hard to come by, and very expensive when you find them. By contrast, every thing you'd need to rebuild a Corvair RIGHT can be bought from one of 3 or 4 places, at VW prices. And also check the weight. There's a large chunk of aluminum that bolts to the generator and is commonly milled off. I'm not sure about the weight but it's something to check on if you really buy one of these. William Wynne likes to tell the story of what happens when a homebuilder tears into an airplane engine and inspects all the parts. The lifters look worn so he trashes them, then starts looking for some "new" ones. He discovers the prices are ridiculous (I've heard $60 a piece for some), so the guy goes back and fishes them out of the trash and reinstalls them. On the other hand, a Corvair guy just tears the thing down to nothing (it's easy) and pitches about 1/2 of the thing in the trash, and buys all new stuff for the rebuild. A full set of lifters for a Corvair is $44. Rings? $48 for a FULL set for all six cylinders! $2500 will completely rebuild and convert a Corvair with mostly new parts (which you paid a mere hundred bucks for to start with). Try that with a certified engine! I could go on for days on this subject, but I'll just point you to two places: My Corvair website at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/ and William Wynne's Corvair conversion manual website at http://www.flycorvair.com/ . It's a no-brainer... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 08:31:31 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>prop Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030629083131.00816110@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <003b01c33dee$0ce32770$81dd1818@computer> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030628195359.024cceb0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 22 .I plan on using this prop. www.climbandcruise.com >Justin ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Justin, You have checked the price list, haven't you????????? $5000 + !!! What performance gains could you possibly get to make it worth spending that kind of money? Larry Flesner ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 81, Issue 1 ************************************