From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1 Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 12:04 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: selling KR 2S Plans (bill kirkland) 2. Re: KR2 Flight? (Herb Hickox) 3. selling KR 2S Plans (larry flesner) 4. Re: selling KR 2S Plans (cartera) 5. Mike Meyer Problem with gear. (Dan Heath) 6. Re: selling KR 2S Plans (Aggie lewanda) 7. Re: selling KR 2S Plans (Max Hardberger) 8. Oshkosh (Jim Faughn) 9. Re: KR2 Flight? (Herb Hickox) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 15:15:33 -0400 From: "bill kirkland" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>selling KR 2S Plans Message-ID: <002001c35605$c971a7c0$68c88b3f@lndn.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> References: <20030728022834.96664.qmail@web40310.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20030728071613.0088d100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Larry; You can sell them but if you built an airplane from them the new owner isn't entitled to build a second airplane. If you haven't built a KR from them the new owner can register with RR as a new builder and they will give him/her a new registration no. and any outstanding updates. W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND wkirkland@rogers.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 8:16 AM Subject: KR>selling KR 2S Plans > > >Since this is going out to the entire net, > >is there anything legally or ethically wrong > >with me selling the one set of plans I bought from R.R. in 2000? > >Dean Allen > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > I don't think you will have any problems in that area. The new > owner of the plans should contact Jeanette Rand and register > as the new owner for Jeanette's records as the ownership of > the plans allows you to build one KR aircraft from them. > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:02:57 -0400 From: "Herb Hickox" To: , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR2 Flight? Message-ID: <001401c3561d$2c1acca0$ab4fd8cd@v0e7g2> References: <001801c3556a$685e2300$ed4fd8cd@v0e7g2> <3F25FFB4.8000702@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Thanks! for the offer of the KR2 flight. I will be happy to take you up on your offer when you are ready. How did you obtain your KR2? Purchase or build? Herb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:01 AM Subject: Re: KR>KR2 Flight? > I have a KR in Jacksonville that you can look at. I haven't flown it > myself yet, but I will have it at the airport in about 2-3 weeks and I > will give you a ride as soon as I get it in the air and get some sole > time under my belt. > > Herb Hickox wrote: > > >I am new to the list and am interested in building a KR2 but would like to fly in one before I commit. Can anyone help me out...I live in St. Augustine, Fl. > > > >Herb (904)797-6126 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:05:40 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>selling KR 2S Plans Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030729170540.007d85c0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <002001c35605$c971a7c0$68c88b3f@lndn.phub.net.cable.rogers. com> References: <20030728022834.96664.qmail@web40310.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20030728071613.0088d100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 >Larry; You can sell them but if you built an airplane from them the new >owner isn't entitled to build a second airplane. If you haven't built a KR >from them the new owner can register with RR as a new builder and they will >give him/her a new registration no. and any outstanding updates. >W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I recall the seller in the original post indicated he had purchased the plans several years ago and had never started constructon. That was the info on which I based my comments. You are right, the purchase of a set of plans allows for the constructon of one aircraft. I doubt if anyone would ever be challenged on building more but it wouldn't be legally "playing fair" with the designer. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:28:37 -0600 From: cartera To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>selling KR 2S Plans Message-ID: <3F270325.2060203@cuug.ab.ca> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030729170540.007d85c0@pop.midwest.net> References: <20030728022834.96664.qmail@web40310.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20030728071613.0088d100@pop.midwest.net> <3.0.6.32.20030729170540.007d85c0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Hi Guy, I bought my plans second hand and no a/c was built off them, I asked Jeanette for a new number but she refused to I applied my own without any problems for the powers that be. But this was in Canada. Happy Flying and a good time at Airventure larry flesner wrote: >>Larry; You can sell them but if you built an airplane from them the new >>owner isn't entitled to build a second airplane. If you haven't built a KR > >>from them the new owner can register with RR as a new builder and they will > >>give him/her a new registration no. and any outstanding updates. >>W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > I recall the seller in the original post indicated he had purchased > the plans several years ago and had never started constructon. > That was the info on which I based my comments. You are > right, the purchase of a set of plans allows for the constructon > of one aircraft. I doubt if anyone would ever be challenged on > building more but it wouldn't be legally "playing fair" with the > designer. > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > -- Adrian cartera@cuug.ab.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:41:21 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>Mike Meyer Problem with gear. Message-ID: <3F270621.000007.02880@Computer> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 Mike and Netters,=0D =0D I copied Dan on my reply post about your problem. Here is his reply to m= e.=0D =0D Thanks for forwarding this to me. No one has reported this problem to us before. The lower brackets are fabricated and possibly could be bent to = the wrong angle. I would suggest to Mike Myers that he send the lower bracke= ts to me for an exchange on two new ones. We have not heard from him but wo= uld like to correct this problem. A few years ago we changed the design of t= he lower bracket which aids in alignment. There is now definitely a right a= nd left bracket. There is a fair amount of camber built into the design so when the airplane is loaded to gross weight the wheels will be straight u= p and down. With our gear, a 4G landing would flex the gear and create a large amount of negative camber. =0D Thanks again for forwarding his complaint to us.=0D Dan Diehl =0D =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From captmax@maritimeatty.com Tue Jul 29 17:14:55 2003 Received: from imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.67]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19hecJ-0008Wl-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:14:55 -0700 Received: from toshibauser ([67.35.229.242]) by imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.27 201-253-122-126-127-20021220) with SMTP id <20030730001512.XIZA19337.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@toshibauser> for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:15:12 -0400 Message-ID: <015b01c3562f$a2d75ae0$0100a8c0@toshibauser> From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <20030728022834.96664.qmail@web40310.mail.yahoo.com><3.0.6.32.20030728071613.0088d100@pop.midwest.net><3.0.6.32.20030729170540.007d85c0@pop.midwest.net> <3F270325.2060203@cuug.ab.ca> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 19:15:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: KR>selling KR 2S Plans X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Since my business deals with contracts, I can add to this discussion that the covenant to build only one aircraft per set of plans purchased is enforceable only against the original purchaser. If he violates the terms of his purchase contract by selling the plans, that is a matter between him and his contracting partner (here, RR). Anyone who buys the plans from him is violating no laws, and is not even violating a contract, since the second purchaser has no contract with RR. Even language on the plans themselves-- "For one A/C only" or something like that--has no effect on the second purchaser. As to the morality of buying used plans, that's a question for a priest, not a lawyer. I can only say that the second purchaser has violated no laws or contract. The above is for general reference only and is not meant to be legal advice. Max Hardberger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:43:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Aggie lewanda To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>selling KR 2S Plans Message-ID: <20030730004359.20067.qmail@web40306.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <015b01c3562f$a2d75ae0$0100a8c0@toshibauser> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 Max, I am the original purchaser/would be seller, and never built an aircraft. If someone buys the plans from me and they build an aircraft (which would be "one aircraft" because I did not build one)am I in violation of anything? Thanks Dean --- Max Hardberger wrote: > Since my business deals with contracts, I can add to this discussion that > the covenant to build only one aircraft per set of plans purchased is > enforceable only against the original purchaser. If he violates the terms of > his purchase contract by selling the plans, that is a matter between him and > his contracting partner (here, RR). Anyone who buys the plans from him is > violating no laws, and is not even violating a contract, since the second > purchaser has no contract with RR. Even language on the plans themselves-- > "For one A/C only" or something like that--has no effect on the second > purchaser. > > As to the morality of buying used plans, that's a question for a priest, not > a lawyer. I can only say that the second purchaser has violated no laws or > contract. > > The above is for general reference only and is not meant to be legal advice. > > Max Hardberger > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:05:00 -0500 From: "Max Hardberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>selling KR 2S Plans Message-ID: <018e01c35636$99e43b40$0100a8c0@toshibauser> References: <20030730004359.20067.qmail@web40306.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Dean Did you sign any kind of agreement when you bought the plans, or is there anything posted on the website or in the promotional materials you reviewed prior to purchase that put you on notice that you couldn't sell the plans? If not, then you are free to do with them as you wish, including selling them. If the notice or warning is only contained in the materials you received after you paid for them, then it has no legal effect, since you would have to have been advised of the restriction BEFORE you bought them for it to be part of your purchase contract. In other words, a seller can't make a sales contract under certain terms, then add to those terms unilaterally after the sale is effected. Remember that many statements are made in the course of business intended to intimidate others, but without legal effect. For example, the ticket you purchase at the county fair says, "No responsible for injuries, etc.," but of course that language has no significance. Of course the fair is liable for the negligence of its employees. But there's no law against making such a statement, even if it means nothing, and it's worth the cost of printing the back of the ticket with the disclaimer if it dissuades just one person from suing. Whether or not you built a plane from the plans is actually irrelevant; the issue is whether you agreed not to sell them before you bought them. I hope this is of some value. Max ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 20:38:25 -0500 From: "Jim Faughn" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Oshkosh Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 For those that can't make it to the big show, I have put a few pictures on my web site that are representative of my trip to date. Go to www.jfaughn.com and then click on Oshkosh 2003 the trip Hope my site holds up to the traffic. Take care. By the way, I'm having fun, wish you were here..... see you in Red Oak. Jim Faughn N891JF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 22:13:49 -0400 From: "Herb Hickox" To: , "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>KR2 Flight? Message-ID: <001201c35640$59f91e60$cb471bd1@v0e7g2> References: <001801c3556a$685e2300$ed4fd8cd@v0e7g2> <3F25FFB4.8000702@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Dear Brian, I would love to look at you KR2 when it is convenient for you. Herb ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 112, Issue 1 *************************************