From: To: Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 144, Issue 1 Date: Sunday, August 31, 2003 12:01 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Norm Stapelberg (Dene Collett (SA)) 2. Cowling (Bob Sauer) 3. Re: new KR builder - spar question (John and Janet Martindale) 4. Re: Re: vertical winglets (John and Janet Martindale) 5. Winglets (Colin) 6. Re: Re: vertical winglets (Mark Langford) 7. Roll Call (RICHARD G ALPS) 8. Re: corvair engine (Mark Langford) 9. Re: Roll Call (Dan Heath) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:37:58 +0200 From: "Dene Collett (SA)" To: "krnet" Subject: KR>Norm Stapelberg Message-ID: <000701c36f40$ea2529c0$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Norman Stapelberg would you please contact me privately, I have lost your e-mail address and would like to communicate with you. Thanks Dene Collett mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 15:10:52 -0700 From: "Bob Sauer" To: "kr" Subject: KR>Cowling Message-ID: <006b01c36f43$93e29d60$fe393818@ph.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2 It's cowling time! Has anyone bought a KR2S cowling from RR and would = comment on the fit and quality? OR one final appeal to anyone that = has a spare cowling that could be adapted to the KR2S or is making or = has a mold and could make an extra to sell, I would appreciate hearing = from someone. Thanks From: resauer@cox.net Sun City West, AZFrom crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sat Aug 30 20:24:46 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.1.39]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19tIpa-000IBr-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:24:46 -0700 Received: from Beverly (5.70.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.70.5]) by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id h7V3QTka026003 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:26:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003c01c36f6f$a8680c30$05462141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 23:26:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Winglets X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: There was an article in Sport Aviation some time ago, but this year, = that featured an aircraft designed by a Canadian designer I think that = had a small winglet that had two parts, angled to different degrees that = he stated he had wind tunnel tested and found to benefit his aircraft = design. They looked to be about 6 inches tall each and at different = angles relative to the main wing. The Varieze and Longeze have winglets to serve as both improvements to = aerodynamics and act as rudders, and also the Lancair IV is using them, = maybe even the Legacy. In certificated aircraft I have seen many King = Airs and similar aircraft of late model production incorporating them = including the Cirrus SR20, & SR22. How much benefit they receive from = the use of winglets I don't know, but I would think that most of the = benefit for small aircraft would be in slower flight, like landing when = wingtip vortices will be the most prevalent for them. As Mark stated I = don't think that there is that much to be gained in smaller aircraft, = unless they have say over 200 knot cruise speeds. I believe the Dan = Diehl tips, or Horneir tips (found on the Zodiac 601) accomplish any = gains to be had in our small planes just fine. Most of their gain comes = from preventing higher pressure air trying to get from the underside of = the wing over the edge to the top, so I would think you would have to be = producing alot of lift in order to see significant gains. Just = opinions... Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From s.j.stys@worldnet.att.net Sat Aug 30 22:31:47 2003 Received: from mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.117]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19tKoV-000Ixw-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 22:31:47 -0700 Received: from yourwg5n33dutv (214.westallis-06rh16rt.wi.dial-access.att.net[12.84.203.214]) by mtiwmhc13.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc13) with SMTP id <2003083105333011300s7u27e>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:33:31 +0000 Message-ID: <007701c36f81$67fb69a0$d6cb540c@yourwg5n33dutv> From: "Sylvester Stys" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <006b01c36f43$93e29d60$fe393818@ph.cox.net> Subject: Re: KR>Cowling Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:33:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: KR Netters I am also looking for a cowl that will fit a KR2, Revmaster 2100 with 2" thread spool extensions (last major part before flight). Reply on or offline. s.j.stys@worldnet.att.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Sauer" To: "kr" Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 5:10 PM Subject: KR>Cowling It's cowling time! Has anyone bought a KR2S cowling from RR and would comment on the fit and quality? OR one final appeal to anyone that has a spare cowling that could be adapted to the KR2S or is making or has a mold and could make an extra to sell, I would appreciate hearing from someone. Thanks From: resauer@cox.net Sun City West, AZ_______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:48:31 +1000 From: "John and Janet Martindale" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>new KR builder - spar question Message-ID: <000001c36f96$ce67ea00$a66ecacb@amipentium200> References: <20030830.081910.2572.0.red-bridge@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 > This all makes perfect sense, but.......... Yep, draw it out full scale to ensure that your inner and outer WAFS will intersect properly. It may be that the short webs serve to provide both proper spacing and load spread about the bolts. My outer caps were slightly oversize (only a 1/16" or so) and I had a devil of a time getting their WAFS to slide inside the innner ones. John and Janet Martindale 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA ph: 61 2 6658 4767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:07:55 +1000 From: "John and Janet Martindale" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Re: vertical winglets Message-ID: <000101c36f96$cff19740$a66ecacb@amipentium200> References: <003701c36f14$5f0fb5c0$6401a8c0@greg> <022201c36f17$2c66a040$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 > I can't point to a specific reference for this "opinion", but I remember > reading that they do help at speeds over 400 mph...... Aye Mark, are you in the mood for an aerodynamic debate? :-) I thought winglets recovered waste energy derived from induced drag, that is, the wing tip vortices. Is not induced drag greatest at large angles of attack viz. usually at low speeds? Obviously, on balance, the recovered energy over all flight attitudes is worth the manufacturers while. Best regards John and Janet Martindale 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA ph: 61 2 6658 4767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 05:38:30 -0400 From: "Colin" To: Subject: KR>Winglets Message-ID: <001b01c36fa3$a32725b0$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 There was an article in Sport Aviation some time ago, but this year, = that featured an aircraft designed by a Canadian designer I think that = had a small winglet that had two parts, angled to different degrees that = he stated he had wind tunnel tested and found to benefit his aircraft = design. They looked to be about 6 inches tall each and at different = angles relative to the main wing. The Varieze and Longeze have winglets to serve as both improvements to = aerodynamics and act as rudders, and also the Lancair IV is using them, = maybe even the Legacy. In certificated aircraft I have seen many King = Airs and similar aircraft of late model production incorporating them = including the Cirrus SR20, & SR22. How much benefit they receive from = the use of winglets I don't know, but I would think that most of the = benefit for small aircraft would be in slower flight, like landing when = wingtip vortices will be the most prevalent for them. As Mark stated I = don't think that there is that much to be gained in smaller aircraft, = unless they have say over 200 knot cruise speeds. I believe the Dan = Diehl tips, or Horneir tips (found on the Zodiac 601) accomplish any = gains to be had in our small planes just fine. Most of their gain comes = from preventing higher pressure air trying to get from the underside of = the wing over the edge to the top, so I would think you would have to be = producing alot of lift in order to see significant gains. Just = opinions... Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From Sonerai1@worldnet.att.net Sun Aug 31 03:29:20 2003 Received: from mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.115]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19tPSS-000KPT-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:29:20 -0700 Received: from donnas (68.detroit12rh16rt.mi.dial-access.att.net[12.87.95.68]) by mtiwmhc11.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc11) with SMTP id <2003083110310311100mn9g2e>; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:31:04 +0000 Message-ID: <002b01c36fab$0bb6b580$445f570c@donnas> From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 06:31:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Kr Progress X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: HI everyone, I just finished putting the third coat of smooth -prime on the bottom of = my KR2 . This marks the completion of the retrofit to the fixed gear = (Fuselage mount, spring gear from great plains,). This stuff is great to work with and sands very well, to bad it is so = expensive. I made my mounting brackets from 6x8x1/2" , 6061 extruded alum. angle = (X3) and doublers on the forward part of the spar to clear the cross = member on the front of the spar. I cut three 4x6" holes in the floor , = and used the original holes on the spar for mounting the angle brackets. With her on her back I did the alignment of the spring gear, and used = the original holes for mounting to the brackets. I then cut a foam wedge = and glassed it in to the bottom of the fuselage to flair in the leading = edge of the gear. Filling the holes from the original gear was a lot of sanding but = straight forward, and now you could never tell it had retracts. I plan on top coating the belly before I put her back on her gear,as to = not have to do it on my back, but to also have it done, and allow me to = concentrate on the top. Tim Bellville N7038V ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 09:09:06 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Re: vertical winglets Message-ID: <02bc01c36fc9$72622490$1202a8c0@basement> References: <003701c36f14$5f0fb5c0$6401a8c0@greg><022201c36f17$2c66a040$1202a8c0@basement> <000101c36f96$cff19740$a66ecacb@amipentium200> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 John Martindale wrote: > Aye Mark, are you in the mood for an aerodynamic debate? :-) Nope, not at all. I don't know diddly about aerodynamics, so it would be a lopsided debate. I just threw out the only tidbit I remember about winglets. I've seen various formulas for making them, and they have lots of variables. It takes about 5 minutes to sand a Hoerner tip onto a wing. It probably takes a lot more time and experimentation to get winglets set up properly. But I'd be the last to stand in your way if that's what you want to do to your KR. What I'd like to see is winglets retrofitted to an existing plane, and then report back on the differences in all flight regimes. I doubt the improvements would be worth the time expended, but you guys are more than welcome to prove me wrong... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 08:33:04 -0600 From: "RICHARD G ALPS" To: "KR Net" Subject: KR>Roll Call Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 Richard & Vicki Alps will be at Red Oak. Arriving early Thursday by camper. Confess we haven't made reservations = for that, and don't know the phone or location of camp grounds. We = could use a little help in that area. Also, would like to rent a car = for the duration so we will have some way to get from the camp grounds = to the airport?? Plan to be there for the whole thing. I have twenty year old plans for = a KR-2, and want to build a KR-2S. I have two Corvair engines, not = rebuilt yet, but have William Wynne's instruction book. Also have a = stack of spruce, a pile of foam, and three boxes of plywood... you know, = the expensive kind that is aircraft grade and ultra thin, like 5/32" or = something like that. Other than that, we are set. Look for an older couple. I am 64 and = wife is 9 younger. Look forward to meeting everyone. Richard AlpsFrom Frlfarmer@wmconnect.com Sun Aug 31 07:32:42 2003 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19tTFx-000LzL-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 07:32:42 -0700 Received: from Frlfarmer@wmconnect.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.39.3d3a9d1c (4426) for ; Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:34:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Frlfarmer@wmconnect.com Message-ID: <39.3d3a9d1c.2c83616e@wmconnect.com> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 10:34:22 EDT To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>corvair engine X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: corvair engine on E-Bay ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:04:45 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>corvair engine Message-ID: <02ce01c36fd9$98cd65d0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <39.3d3a9d1c.2c83616e@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 VairHeads, There are three Corvair engines on ebay that will not do for aircraft use, the 61-63, the 150 horse turbo, and the 140 horse. Bottom line is that you want a 65 or later 110hp, with the proper heads. The one that WILL work is item number 2429660739, for sale by William Wynne (aka the Corvair Authority), and I would expect the price to rise considerably by the time it's sold. Still, I think he sells them for around $8000 normally, so right now it's a deal since it's only $3000 so far. Note, however, that it has a front starter arrangement which will probably lead to a hump in the cowling, unless you use a 12" spinner, which WW recommends anyway. I don't know how many people buy Corvair engines only to discover that they've bought the wrong year. Still, many of the parts are interchangeable, and it never hurts to have a little practice tearing one down, I guess. By all means, if you guys are thinking about buying a Corvair engine, buy William's manual (see http://www.flycorvair.com/ ) FIRST so you'll buy the correct engine (or see the head and engine number codes at http://www.corvaircraft.com/ ). And definitely join the CorvAircraft list, by sending a message to corvaircraft-join@mylist.net . I run it too, so you should be right at home... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 12:53:28 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Roll Call Message-ID: <3F522808.000001.00304@Computer> References: Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 Richard,=0D =0D I think you can camp at the airport. Mike Garbez or Steve Bennett can probably fill you in on that. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Red Oak - 2003=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Sunday, August 31, 2003 10:31:45 AM=0D To: KR Net=0D Subject: KR>Roll Call=0D =0D Richard & Vicki Alps will be at Red Oak.=0D =0D Arriving early Thursday by camper. Confess we haven't made reservations f= or that, and don't know the phone or location of camp grounds. We could u= se a little help in that area. Also, would like to rent a car for the dur= ation so we will have some way to get from the camp grounds to the airpor= t??------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 144, Issue 1 *************************************