From: krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 158, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: kr2 prop needed 2100d revmaster 2. Pushtubes 3. Access panel (Colin) 4. Re: Re Fly in 5. Re: kr2 prop needed 2100d revmaster (kevin) 6. Spars (Gavin Donohoe) 7. Glue joints (Gavin Donohoe) 8. Some 2003 Gathering notes (Ed Janssen) 9. Spar and glue (Colin) 10. Re: Spar and glue (Mark Youkey) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 17:37:27 EDT From: WA7YXF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>kr2 prop needed 2100d revmaster Message-ID: <79.18efc66e.2c94e817@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 When the inspector checked mine all he cared about was that the prop bolts were safety wired in the proper direction. Lynn I gotta tell U, when I had my signoff done I could have had a lawn mower blade on the front of 6399U and I don't think it really would have mattered. All inspectors operate differently I guess.---------------------GOOD LUCK ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:10:46 EDT From: WA7YXF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Pushtubes Message-ID: <12e.3189bd16.2c94efe6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Also hooking anything big at all up to the elevator horn in the tail is a @#$%&^ ! No Room! Definitely need some experienced thoughts... Thanks. Colin Rainey KR2(td) Colin, You might just chop a hole in aft end of the rear deck and do it right. It's real easy to put some foam in the opening and glass it over when you get done. That's why we build KRs. Just ask Dana if he would do that on his metallic thing. Lynn N37LH ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:21:04 -0400 From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Access panel Message-ID: <001301c37a56$15dc96a0$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 3 Hey Lynn What about cutting a second access hole in the pilot's side of the tail? = That would make it REALLY easy to work there. Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From WA7YXF@aol.com Sat Sep 13 18:13:39 2003 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19yLSM-000A4b-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:13:39 -0700 Received: from WA7YXF@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.111.27e6ee7b (4584) for ; Sat, 13 Sep 2003 21:15:55 -0400 (EDT) From: WA7YXF@aol.com Message-ID: <111.27e6ee7b.2c951b4a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 21:15:54 EDT Subject: KR>Access panel To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: 7.0 for Windows sub 10689 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: There ya go... Sounds like a winner... In the years to come you might really appreciate having access to the area like that. Lynn N37LH Hey Lynn What about cutting a second access hole in the pilot's side of the tail? That would make it REALLY easy to work there. Colin Rainey KR2(td) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:10:46 EDT From: AviationMech@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Re Fly in Message-ID: <65.18ee0ffd.2c953636@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 In a message dated 9/13/2003 1:55:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wkirkland@rogers.com writes: > 3 or 4 more days I remember the rain in Kentucky that kept us hanging around of a few extra days. This is why I mentioned that I hope the attendees will vote to hold the fly in earlier in the season. Congrats on the supreme effort Orma AKA AviationMech KR2 N110LR 1984 to Present www.members.aol.com/aviationmech also see me at www.aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:25:48 -0700 From: kevin To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>kr2 prop needed 2100d revmaster Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030913232548.0087bae0@pop3.wcoil.com> In-Reply-To: <79.18efc66e.2c94e817@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 Hello and thanks ,, all the IA's or a&p 's I,ve talked to check the pitch and diameter of the prop ,, to make sure it matches the log books , or they wont issue a condition inspection . Do you know of one that wont? If so let me know. This could save me time and $$ , Thanks KevinAt 05:37 PM 9/13/03 EDT, you wrote: >When the inspector checked mine all he cared about was that the prop bolts >were safety wired in the proper direction. Lynn > >I gotta tell U, when I had my signoff done I could have had a lawn >mower blade on the front of 6399U and I don't think it really would >have mattered. All inspectors operate differently I >guess.---------------------GOOD LUCK > > > > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:01:47 +1000 From: Gavin Donohoe To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Spars Message-ID: <001301c37a9e$ed82ce60$6f4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 6 I've been reading on Marks site about the new airfoils and have decided to go with the 5048/6 option !! I also like the idea of starting the wing dihedral inboard of the first rib. Has anybody done this yet and how was it done ?? I have lots of timber but not the right thickness, Is it stronger to laminate the spar centre sections from maybe 1" planks and bend them on the bench before the glue is set ??Maybe 1" is too thick to laminate maybe I need thinner pieces but more of them?? Can someone with experience help to answer some of these questions?? I want my spar to be as strong as I can get it!! Gav --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 11/09/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:35:35 +1000 From: Gavin Donohoe To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Glue joints Message-ID: <001201c37a9e$eca0f9e0$6f4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 7 Hi all, I've started to lay the timber out ready for gluing the fuselage sides, and was wondering, what's the best way to clean up excess glue from the joints?? Am I better to wipe it off while still wet? or am I better to let it dry and chip it off? Which is less messy and most successful? Gavin --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.518 / Virus Database: 316 - Release Date: 11/09/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 08:21:53 -0500 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Some 2003 Gathering notes Message-ID: <018b01c37ac3$29d08a50$8d00a8c0@dad> References: <001301c37a9e$ed82ce60$6f4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 8 A few notes from the Gathering. Early Thursday found the attendees standing around picking their noses, adjusting their shorts, and talking weather, until Mike Garbez taxied his plane from his hanger into the viewing area. All eyes fell on his plane for the rest of the day. Steve Bennett and Marty Roberts, just a few miles away, and Jim Faughn , about a 100 miles, were waiting for a break in the weather which never came until Friday morning when they flew in. We oldsters were surprised to see Steve Alderman fly in in his speedster. – yup, it’s still yellow. Terry Chisek also made it in from Kansas. So, as of Saturday at about 1:30 P.M., when I had to start driving back home, only 5 KRs were in attendance. Larry Flesner and Mark Langford motored in in Larry’s great little TriPacer which has become the camera ship for a number of past events. Video Bob, Larry, and Mark took to the sky Sat. morning and took some air to air shots of the KRs. Having a couple of the speediest KRs at an event such as this, naturally leads to a “see who’s fastest” scenario. Listening to the radio, I’m sure I heard Marty say something like “You got me” to Steve A. Marty and Jim tried their best to provide a little excitement. On one of Marty’s high speed fly-bys and a subsequent approx. 9G pullup, his fiberglass baggage container came loose from its mooring behind the seat and audibly banged down on top of his elevator controls, leaving Marty with only partial up travel. That had to increase his pulse a bit. Everybody held their breath as Marty made a long flat approach with Steve A. flying chase to an uneventful landing. On landing Steve Bennett effectively grounded Marty for the rest of the day by handing him a “cool one”. Not to be outdone, Jim, during a flyby, had his right aileron balance weight fall off. Again, all eyes were on him as he made a nice uneventful landing. So, the repairs that followed became some “entertainment” for the rest of the day and early Sat. morning. With the help of Mike Garbez’s well equipped shop, a new aileron bracket and weight were made for Jim; and some T-88 was supplied to re-glue in a wood support for Marty’s rear shelf. Both were back flying late Sat. morning. During all this time, Terry took up the slack by giving a number of rides until Jim and Marty were back in the air. As far as displays, Mark Langford had some cowl pieces to show off, somebody displayed an aluminum wing tank, and John Backer showed a nifty wheel pant and mold of his design. Those were just some of the highlights. I’m sure others will give their accounts, plus pictures at some point in the next few days. Stay tuned. Ed Janssen Ed Janssen mailto:ejanssen@chipsnet.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:22:28 -0400 From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Spar and glue Message-ID: <001001c37ac3$3efc9d60$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 Gavin, All that I have read and found while working myself is that you should = wipe up the glue as you assemble; it is too easy to damage the joint or = surrounding wood chipping off, especially near joints. Also don't clamp = the joints so tight as to squeeze all the glue out. Apply just enough = pressure to maintain a firm contact and the glue will do the rest. = Otherwise you will starve the joint of enough adhesive to make a proper = strength joint. I was talking to a T-18 driver the other day and he brought up a = good point that applies to your question about the wing dihedral and = spars. He told me that the reason the T-18 has the wing straight for = most of its length and then the dihedral on the outer wing panel is the = significant weight savings. Since the spar is straight up to that point = it does not have to be as strong, nor as heavy. If you have the dihedral = begin at the fuselage, then the spar has to be alot stronger, and = therefore heavier. If this is true, and I don't have reason to doubt = him, then basically doing away with the stub wing and beginning the = dihedral at the fuselage will require a significantly stronger spar to = carry the additional loads. Not being an engineer, I don't know the = particulars. Maybe Scott Cable, or Lynn can comment as to why. The RV = guys can compare their spar size to that of a T-18. This guy John said = his hanger mate has an RV6 and his spar is alot bigger and heavier, yet = the planes are very close in size and weight, load carrying. Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From Frlfarmer@wmconnect.com Sun Sep 14 07:21:38 2003 Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.100]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19yXkw-000EgP-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 07:21:38 -0700 Received: from Frlfarmer@wmconnect.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.155.243d1bc4 (4004) for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:23:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Frlfarmer@wmconnect.com Message-ID: <155.243d1bc4.2c95d3fe@wmconnect.com> Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 10:23:58 EDT To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Open House X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: There will be a open house at Twin County Airport (HLX) Sep. 20. In southwest Virginia near the Blue Ridge Parkway. Homebuilts welcome. Lots of things to see and do in the area that weekend. It would be nice to see some of the KR people there. For more info e-mail me off the net at frlfarmer@wmconnect.com or Tim Brown at twincountyairport@valink.com Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:59:35 -0500 From: "Mark Youkey" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Spar and glue Message-ID: <001301c37ae1$9381bf50$7e7e0c44@blah> References: <001001c37ac3$3efc9d60$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 >nor as heavy. If you have the dihedral begin at the fuselage, then the >spar has to be alot stronger, and therefore heavier. If this is true, and I don't have reason to doubt him, then basically doing away with the stub wing and beginning the dihedral at the fuselage will require a significantly stronger spar to carry the additional loads. Not being an engineer, I don't know the You know that when you are in a turn, your wings have to produce more lift perpendicular to the wing to result in the same vertical force... The same occurs with dihedral angle. Both wings are in a constant bank, but towards each other, therefore wings with dihedral must produce more lift than wings without dihedral to achieve the same vertical force, and hence, must be built stronger. According to my number crunching, during straight and level, a 5 degree dihedral carries 1.00382 times to load of a wing with no dihedral. 10 degrees carries 1.0154 times the load. (My formula was just 1/cos(5 deg)) Those numbers lead me to believe that the real problem is that when you have a dihedral, you have a joint in the middle of your spar, where the bending moment is the largest (right under your seat). So, in order to beef this joint up enough to have the same strength as a straight spar takes a bit of weight---think about how heavy the joint is where you connect the outer wings to the stub wings. Perhaps I'm wrong, but the above is the reason I'm not persuing dihedral throughout my entire wing. Mark Youkey myoukey@cox.net Oklahoma City ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 158, Issue 1 *************************************