From: krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 162, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. extraneous posts (Mark Langford) 2. Gathering photos (Jack Cooper) 3. Seat Comfort Criteria (Scott Cable) 4. Hinges 5. Hinges 6. Re: KR2 project for sale - Calif (Dennis Mingear) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:10:46 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>extraneous posts Message-ID: <00dc01c37d68$8d904920$1202a8c0@basement> References: <20030917180756.80128.qmail@web40810.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Well, we've done it again. I saw Steve Makish at SNF and invited him to rejoin KRNet, assuring him that we were a civil bunch and only posted 5-15 messages per day. He'd been a member previously, but punched out after one of the firestorms last year. Steve has been flying a KR relentlessly for maybe 20 years, and has had a Type 1 and Type 4 VW, a Subaru, and finally, a Corvair. He's a true experimenter, and tried about 5 different carbs and props on every installation, looking for the magic combination. This guy was a wealth of the kind of information that we needed here. The bruhhaha over the metric system must have been the last straw, because I see that he unsubscribed on Sunday. Please, let's keep it down to KR stuff, and send the purely personal stuff directly to whoever it's intended for. If you can't figure out how to send something directly to somebody without bothering the rest of us, maybe you should just keep quiet... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:07:10 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Gathering photos Message-ID: <410-2200394181710830@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 I just posted some gathering pictures to my website. This year I paid special attention to canopies, turtle decks, vents and other things I will be building in the near future so that is what most of my pictures are of. I had a great time at the gathering. Wish more of you had been there.Bob, Great job on the 2002 gathering video. Thats motivation. Thanks. See my pictures at: http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/2003gathering.html http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/2003gathering2.html http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/2003gathering3.html Robert J. (Jack) Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net http://www.jackandsandycoooper.com/kr2 Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.From barryk@tpg.com.au Wed Sep 17 19:07:41 2003 Received: from mta03bw.bigpond.com ([144.135.24.147]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 19zoCr-000PxM-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:07:41 -0700 Received: from t1w419 ([144.135.24.69]) by mta03bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HLE006C50GMZ4@mta03bw.email.bigpond.com> for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:05:10 +1000 (EST) Received: from 203.55.158.170 ([203.55.158.170]) by bwmam01.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 2/14172835); Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:05:01 +0000 Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:04:24 +1000 From: Barry Kruyssen To: KR Net List Message-id: <006901c37d89$34ed62f0$c102070a@t1w419> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Re: Vents X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Jim Hill can you please contact me off net to discuss your vents. Thanks Barry Kruyssen kr2@BigPond.com AUF Registered 19-3873 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 05:59:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Seat Comfort Criteria Message-ID: <20030918125955.22991.qmail@web40801.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20030917180756.80128.qmail@web40810.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 For the benefit of those who were not able to make the KR Gathering, and for those of you who may be interested in seating design, I've decided to share some of my experience with you that I've learned as a Sr. Project Engineer for a Teir 1 Automotive Seating Company, and how this applies to the KR. Depending upon what your KR Mission Statement reads, if you are wanting more performance, and flights are less than 1 hour, than by all means use the lightest weight option that you can find which is the sling seat per plans. If you mission statement reads something like cross-country VFR, flights longer than 1 hour... etc. Then you probably already have ascertained that the sling seat is going to be pretty inadequate for this mission. After speaking with a number of KR pilots, most of them agree and have at least placed some sort of cushion between sore back-sides and the sling. Because of the required seating arrangement of the KR, the occupant is seated in the aircraft in a knee high position, very similar to a sports or race car. Because of the high knee point relative to H-point, this causes a number of seating comfort issues. 1.) The seat cushion (or sling)shape curves upward very abuptly at the rear spar. In medium to long flights this will cause the occupant to experience "tail burn" and numbness in the lower extremities. The Occupant's weight is always applied through the Ishial tuberosities in the hip. (The Ishial tuberosities are the bony horns of the hip that protrude downward) Because of the abrupt curvature of the seat cushion, even more weight is concentrated into this area of the body. 2.) In order to package the occupant into the small confines of a KR, the back or recline angle is high, and the back panel is flat. The human spine has curvature naturally occurring, it is NOT flat. Because of the high recline angle, more upper body weight is concentrated onto the shoulders, mid and lower back. This causes poor blood ciculation, and pressure points, which leads to back, neck and shoulder problems and fatigue. In short, it's uncomfortable. 3.) Sling seats have no way of absorbing vibration. Vibration is the leading cause of numbness and fatigue. 4.) No side bolsters or side support for the occupant(s). This causes the occupant to tense musles to maintain seating posture. This causes fatigue and discomfort. 5.) No armrests cause upper back and shoulder discomfort because the upper body remains unsupported. This also causes neck, shoulder and upper backache. Recommendations: 1.) Fabricate a fiberglass or CF seat like Mark Langford's or others have built. 2.) Automotive Comfort criteria mandates 50mm cushion and 35mm minimum meat to metal. That's 2 inches to any hardpoint in the cushion and 1.25 inches in the back. 3.) Incorporate some sort of suspension mat in the Ishial area of the cushion. Go to your local wrecking yard and get a wire or nylon web seat suspension mat from a car. Attach it with the same size springs. Insure that the fully loaded seat does not bottom on the belly skin and clears all routings. 4.) Incorporate some form of adjustable lumbar support in the back. This could be a "dogbone" shape of upholstered foam with velcro to attach it to the back upholstery. 5.) Incorporate cushion and back bolsters in either the foam or glass/CF seat frame. 6.) Incorporate curvature into the back. 7.) Incorporate armrests into the seat and side panels This is regardless of weather you have single or dual sticks, almost manditory for center stick. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:22:14 -0400 From: To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Hinges Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 4 I know this is in the archive but I got frustrated trying to find the exact info. I am going to use the new airfoil elevator and rudder. Question is what size of chanel aluminum to use for the hinges? I don't want to get my hinges in a bind. I don't want to use pushrod ends either. (plans built, cost, weight, you know the stuff.) Mark I couldn't get on to your site to look at what you did. Steve Phillabaum skphil@charter.net Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:34:33 EDT From: WA7YXF@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Hinges Message-ID: <24.45d63ae8.2c9b2a89@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 I used the aluminum channel on mine. Guys who have been flying with them tell me they wear badly and soon. Especially the rudder. Many drill them out and put in bushings. If I were to do it over, I would use steel channel. Steel would weigh more but, not as much as the pushrod ends. Lynn N37LH I am going to use the new airfoil elevator and rudder. Question is what size of chanel aluminum to use for the hinges? I don't want to get my hinges in a bind. I don't want to use pushrod ends either. (plans built, cost, weight, you know the stuff.) Mark I couldn't get on to your site to look at what you did. Steve Phillabaum skphil@charter.net Auburn, Alabama ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:02:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Dennis Mingear To: SBailey@mandelcom.com, KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>KR2 project for sale - Calif Message-ID: <20030918160237.59223.qmail@web12601.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <00a901c35711$95c608f0$b52dae40@frontlinegroup.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 Hello Scott, I live about 40 miles east of SF in Pittsburg. Do you still have the project for sale? Dennis ... Scott Bailey wrote: Netters, I'm paring down to one KR project - that means my other has to go: Here's what it consists of: - KR2 in boat stage - well built - On Diehl gear (tail dragger) - With Diehl wing skins (both stub and outer wings) - some flight instrumentation - w/converted VW engine (low time) - Also have 100 hp EA81 Subaru long blocks (Japanese truck version) too, if interested. (wanted to use in the KR but ran out of time) My asking price is $3500 for the project plus engine. I don't want to sell parts, if I can help it. This would be a great way for someone to take a short cut to a completed plane. I'd be happy to provide more details and photos to interested parties. Scott Bailey (650) 637-1992 San Fran area sbailey@mandelcom.com _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 162, Issue 1 *************************************