From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 6:15 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 169, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Looking for anyone around Albany NY (Eric Fichtner) 2. Re: 2004 Gathering (Dan Heath) 3. Carbon fibre seats (Darren Pond) 4. New FAA Licenses! (Ross Youngblood) 5. RE: Ground / Earth Wiring/ Stall Warning (Ross Youngblood) 6. Re: New FAA Licenses! (Brian Kraut) 7. RE: Ground / Earth Wiring/ Stall Warning (Brian Kraut) 8. Re: OK, Daniel Heath.....you asked for it!!-Weather (Brian Kraut) 9. Re: New FAA Licenses! (Mark Jones) 10. Glutton For Punishment - John Shafer Canopy Conversion (Dan Heath) 11. Grounding (Patrick Driscoll) 12. RE: Carbon fibre seats (Rick Hubka) 13. Engines (Gavin Donohoe) 14. RE: Grounding (Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA) 15. New W&B Sheet and Graphic Representation (Dan Heath) 16. Grounding (JIM VANCE) 17. RE: Carbon fibre seats (Scott Cable) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:58:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Fichtner To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Looking for anyone around Albany NY Message-ID: <20030924195844.98628.qmail@web20512.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 I am looking to buy a KR2. I would like to see one in person before I do and maybe sit in one. I was wondering if anyone lives within a 2 hour driving radius of Albany NY that has a KR2 and wouldn't mind a visit. Eric --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design softwareFrom AviationMech@aol.com Wed Sep 24 15:24:27 2003 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A2I3f-000JME-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 15:24:27 -0700 Received: from AviationMech@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r1.1.) id g.1ad.19e86167 (4214) for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:26:56 -0400 (EDT) From: AviationMech@aol.com Message-ID: <1ad.19e86167.2ca3742f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:26:55 EDT Subject: Re: KR>2004 Gathering To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 6018 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: In a message dated 9/24/2003 8:10:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, flesner@midwest.net writes: > the 2004 Gathering date Good look with getting a date. My personal hope is that the date is earlier in the year. I personally would choose to attend the KR gathering if there any conflict of events. If the date is not earlier a lot of KR flyers will need the satellite data, talked about in that long advertisement I read a note or two ago. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:14:33 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>2004 Gathering Message-ID: <3F722559.00000B.01616@Computer> References: <1ad.19e86167.2ca3742f@aol.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2 RE: If the date is not earlier a lot of KR flyers will need=0D the satellite data, talked about in that long advertisement I read a note= or=0D two ago.=0D =0D Are you speaking about the "in the cockpit weather on your cell phone".=20 That would be neat, but what would be better, would be not to need it. I know that there has to be a better time of year for generally good weathe= r around the country. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From larry.capps@comcast.net Wed Sep 24 17:31:09 2003 Received: from sccrmhc12.comcast.net ([204.127.202.56]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A2K2H-000K34-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:31:09 -0700 Received: from schpankme (12-251-66-163.client.attbi.com[12.251.66.163]) by comcast.net (sccrmhc12) with SMTP id <2003092500340001200t512me>; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:34:00 +0000 From: "Larry A Capps" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:34:47 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c382fc$d2c437b0$0200a8c0@schpankme> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C382D2.E9EE2FB0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20030924070051.00853e30@pop.midwest.net> X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Attachment - Canopy Height X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: larry.capps@comcast.net, KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C382D2.E9EE2FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thxs Larry, My canopy is 19.5 inches (as shown in the attachment) at the pilots head. The Pilot shown represents a 6' 2" - person, weight 250 lbs. I think this canopy should be sufficient for comfort. I'm debating on making a canopy like yours, the only change would be the rear of the canopy would resemble my current design. I do like your canopy very much. Larry A Capps Naperville, IL -----Original Message----- A recent post about canopy height reminded me that I had not gotten back with my measurements. The canopy height on my KR at the center, from top longeron to inside top of canopy is 19 inches. It drops to 18 1/2 inches at the pilots head location. My canopy assy runs vertically from the top longeron approx 7 1/2 inchs before arcing over to the top. My radius from side to top is the arc of a 32 gallon trash can lid. My results can be seen at: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/ Your results may vary! :-) Larry Flesner P.S. I hope to be flying in the next 30 days! ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C382D2.E9EE2FB0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 20:38:03 -0400 From: "Darren Pond" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Carbon fibre seats Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3F70EBD5.000003.01752@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 HI All Just wanted to let you know I had great success in making carbon fibre seats for my KR2. Wanted to thank Mark and Dan for all the info on their web sites. I made individual buck seat style that rap or hook over the front and aft spar caps. For the back rest I covered the back side of an Obus form back rest insert with plastic then laid up layers of carbon. It fits me just fine with and with out the already complete obus form back rest which come is several colours and happens to be designed to fit most people. I figure it did add up to about $250 Canada worth of materials and Obus form rests. Now onto the belly flap. Darren Pond KR2 C-GGGW 385hour TT before I got it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:39:34 +0100 From: "Ross Youngblood" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>New FAA Licenses! Message-ID: <20030925003934.13807.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 I have moved, and my Pilots License had made one too many trips through the laundry, so the Instrument raiting rubbed off on the plastic holder in my wallet. So I decided it was a good time to send in my $5.00-7.00 and get a replacement certificate. WOW! The new FAA license is a credit card like affar with a FAA hologram on the front. It has the DOT logo at the upper right, with all the normal text over an image of the Wright Flyer and a Airliner on the front, on the back is a picture of Orvile and Wilber Wright along with a picture of the Wright flyer in flight, along with a place for your signature. I was VERY suprised to get the new license for my money. This is somthing that will last, and is a much more official looking ID. There is no magnetic strip, and I don't expect they have a RFID in it, and there are no pins for a smart card, so it's just a plastic card... however, it is pretty! Don't know if anyone else has seen these new licenses yet. The date of issue shows this month, which is interesting as I thought the issue date resets the clock on a BFR, but I'm sure there is some REG that covers this. -- Ross http://n541ry.us -- ___________________________________________________ OperaMail free e-mail - http://www.operamail.com OperaMail Premium - 28MB, POP3, more! US$29.99/year Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 01:51:19 +0100 From: "Ross Youngblood" To: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com, "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>Ground / Earth Wiring/ Stall Warning Message-ID: <20030925005120.29309.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Well, I guess I should have prefaced my post with: "I was thinking about grounding my wing attach fittings." The idea was to run braid to the FWD fittings only so it would serve as a ground point. Then I don't have to run a third wire all the way back from wingtip lights fueltank etc to the firewall as any connection could pick up ground at the attach fitting. The main reason I had the idea as there was a bolt hole there already, and it's easy to add a star washer and a couple of wires. I should have also added that you probably want a seperate wire to connect the outer and inner fittings together, as if you rely on the bolts to give you good contact, you could have problems... i.e. radio noise, bad connections, hard to track down etc etc. That was when I was concerned about having a ground path for the fuel tanks to prevent static buildup. I'm relying on my grounded fuel sender to do this now. So, simply grounding the wing attach fittings is not a great idea in itself, but if you want to use the wing attach fitting on the removable wing as a ground point, it's an idea. -- Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Freiberger" Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:13:07 -0500 To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>Ground / Earth Wiring/ Stall Warning > Ross said, > I would recommend > running a 1/4" ground unshielded braid aft to the elev horn mount, and > mount it there. I would also consider running a braid to the wing > attach fittings, but I haven't done that. > > What possible electrical reason would you have for doing that? > > Ron Freiberger > mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html -- ___________________________________________________ OperaMail free e-mail - http://www.operamail.com OperaMail Premium - 28MB, POP3, more! US$29.99/year Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:06:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>New FAA Licenses! Message-ID: <30433175.1064451972608.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Thanks for the info. Both my pilot and A&P tickets have addresses that go two houses back and they look like a dog ate them and spit them back up. Now I have an excuse to get new ones. -----Original Message----- From: Ross Youngblood Sent: Sep 24, 2003 8:39 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>New FAA Licenses! I have moved, and my Pilots License had made one too many trips through the laundry, so the Instrument raiting rubbed off on the plastic holder in my wallet. So I decided it was a good time to send in my $5.00-7.00 and get a replacement certificate. WOW! The new FAA license is a credit card like affar with a FAA hologram on the front. It has the DOT logo at the upper right, with all the normal text over an image of the Wright Flyer and a Airliner on the front, on the back is a picture of Orvile and Wilber Wright along with a picture of the Wright flyer in flight, along with a place for your signature. I was VERY suprised to get the new license for my money. This is somthing that will last, and is a much more official looking ID. There is no magnetic strip, and I don't expect they have a RFID in it, and there are no pins for a smart card, so it's just a plastic card... however, it is pretty! Don't know if anyone else has seen these new licenses yet. The date of issue shows this month, which is interesting as I thought the issue date resets the clock on a BFR, but I'm sure there is some REG that covers this. -- Ross http://n541ry.us -- ___________________________________________________ OperaMail free e-mail - http://www.operamail.com OperaMail Premium - 28MB, POP3, more! US$29.99/year Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:45:52 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Brian Kraut To: KR builders and pilots Subject: RE: KR>Ground / Earth Wiring/ Stall Warning Message-ID: <22603708.1064454353000.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Since there has been a lot of grounding messages lately I will throw in my two cents. I design electronics systems for ships and I also have a lot of experience with grounding on fiberglass boats, particularly with MF/HF radio grounding. I am by no means an expert on composite aircraft grounding so don't take everything I say as gospel. First, there are two types of grounding. There is bonding which is essentially using wire to connect two different pieces of metal so they are at the same electrical potential. This is what you do when you put a wire from one side of a hinge to the other side to prevent a strong charge from arcing accross your hinge and welding the two halves together or to keep a metal fuel tank from arcing through the anodized and somewhat insulated AN fitting into the fuel tube it is connected to. These arcs can be caused from lightning or even just highly charged air near a thunderstorm. This can also cause crackeling in your radio even when there is not enough of an arc to weld the hinges together. It is critical to bond metal flight surfaces that are hinged together, but it is really not necessary on the small mass of metal on the hinges of a fiberglass plane. Bonding metal fuel tanks and lines though is a must. The other type of grounding is RF grounding. This is done so high frequency radio waves have a path to ground. It both gives noise sources like your strobe power supply a path to ground and it also gives your radios their necessary ground plane. On a fiberglass boat with a sideband radio you want as much metal connected to your ground plane as possible. You connect the ground stud on the antenna tuner and the ground stud on the radio to the engine, metal thru hull fittings, and as much other metal as you can. You also run 20-50' of ground strap or copper screen around in the bottom of the boat when there isn't a lot of metal to connect to. On a KR you want to run ground strap to the ground studs on the radios, the case of the strobe power supply, the engine, engine mount, stainless firewall, and whatever else you can within reason. One thing that is important in your RF ground is that you should use copper strap if you can instead of wire. There is something called skin effect which caused higher frequency RF to travel only on the outer surface of the conductor instead of through the center so you really want a concuctor with a lot of outside surface area, not just a big gauge round wire. On boats you use 2" copper strap that is about .030" thick. For a KR you should look for copper tape about 3/4" wide. My KR has a very effective RF ground that the original builder put in. There are three pieces of 3/4" wide thin copper tape running along the bottom of the fusalage forward to aft. There is also copper tape under the glass in the wings connecting to the wing attach fittings. I believe there is even some connecting to the elevator and rudder hinges. The builder soldered pieces together where they connect and even went as far as to solder short wire leads to the straps with alligator clips on the ends to clip to the control cables. There are also pieces running off to all the aluminum pully attach fittings, etc. and connected to the fuel lines with hose clamps Mine may have been done a little on the overkill side, but I probably have a good three square feet of ground plane in the copper strap alone and several more in everything else that is connected to it and the entire weight of all the copper tape, leads, etc. is well under a pound. One other thing about RF grounding is that it is sometimes more black magic instead of science. Sometimes you can get radio interference from something that should be connected to the ground plane that isn't and sometimes you can clear up interference from disconnecting something from the ground plane that you think should be connected. Good luck. -----Original Message----- From: Ross Youngblood Sent: Sep 24, 2003 8:51 PM To: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com, KR builders and pilots Subject: RE: KR>Ground / Earth Wiring/ Stall Warning Well, I guess I should have prefaced my post with: "I was thinking about grounding my wing attach fittings." The idea was to run braid to the FWD fittings only so it would serve as a ground point. Then I don't have to run a third wire all the way back from wingtip lights fueltank etc to the firewall as any connection could pick up ground at the attach fitting. The main reason I had the idea as there was a bolt hole there already, and it's easy to add a star washer and a couple of wires. I should have also added that you probably want a seperate wire to connect the outer and inner fittings together, as if you rely on the bolts to give you good contact, you could have problems... i.e. radio noise, bad connections, hard to track down etc etc. That was when I was concerned about having a ground path for the fuel tanks to prevent static buildup. I'm relying on my grounded fuel sender to do this now. So, simply grounding the wing attach fittings is not a great idea in itself, but if you want to use the wing attach fitting on the removable wing as a ground point, it's an idea. -- Ross ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Freiberger" Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:13:07 -0500 To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>Ground / Earth Wiring/ Stall Warning > Ross said, > I would recommend > running a 1/4" ground unshielded braid aft to the elev horn mount, and > mount it there. I would also consider running a braid to the wing > attach fittings, but I haven't done that. > > What possible electrical reason would you have for doing that? > > Ron Freiberger > mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html -- ___________________________________________________ OperaMail free e-mail - http://www.operamail.com OperaMail Premium - 28MB, POP3, more! US$29.99/year Powered by Outblaze _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:52:12 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Brian Kraut To: pond27@rogers.com Cc: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>OK, Daniel Heath.....you asked for it!!-Weather Message-ID: <16868342.1064454733241.JavaMail.root@misspiggy.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 I looked up a few airport identifiers and put them in and got a "Bad Airport" message on the phone so I would say they don't have Canada coverage yet. That brings up the one gripe I have on the system. You put in airport identifiers and it centers the screen on the selected airport which is great, but you can't scroll the picture to the sides so if you want the weather centered in the midddle of nowhere where you are flying and there are no airport around you are out of luck. You can, however, zoom out and get the big picture anywhere. I think I know the answer but can you see if it can access Ontario Canada Weather Sounds like a really cool modern-day instrument Darren -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: September 20, 2003 7:31 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>OK, Daniel Heath.....you asked for it!!-Weather I subscribed to the service about two months ago and I love it. The images are great and very accurate. Their tech support is also excellent. I had a brand new model of Samsung phone and they gave me a free trial to see if it would work on my phone. When it didn't work they modified their software in one day to work on my phone. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:07:42 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>New FAA Licenses! Message-ID: <004901c38309$f9067480$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <20030925003934.13807.qmail@operamail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 The date of issue reflects the day that license was printed. Had several replaced with new addresses as I moved and these all had the date of issue as a printed date. I had requested they print my original issue date of 1976 on mine, but to no avail as they now show my issue date as being this past August. I too have my new license and really like it except the print being black on a fairly dark background makes it difficult to read and almost impossible to make a photocopy of. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Youngblood" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:39 PM Subject: KR>New FAA Licenses! > I have moved, and my Pilots License had made one too > many trips through the laundry, so the Instrument > raiting rubbed off on the plastic holder in my wallet. > > So I decided it was a good time to send in my $5.00-7.00 > and get a replacement certificate. > > WOW! > > The new FAA license is a credit card like affar with > a FAA hologram on the front. It has the DOT logo at the > upper right, with all the normal text over an image of > the Wright Flyer and a Airliner on the front, > on the back is a picture of Orvile and Wilber Wright > along with a picture of the Wright flyer in flight, > along with a place for your signature. > > I was VERY suprised to get the new license for my money. > This is somthing that will last, and is a much more > official looking ID. There is no magnetic strip, and > I don't expect they have a RFID in it, and there are no > pins for a smart card, so it's just a plastic card... however, it is > pretty! > > Don't know if anyone else has seen these new licenses > yet. > > The date of issue shows this month, which is interesting > as I thought the issue date resets the clock on a BFR, but I'm sure > there is some REG that covers this. > > -- Ross > http://n541ry.us > > > > -- > ___________________________________________________ > OperaMail free e-mail - http://www.operamail.com > OperaMail Premium - 28MB, POP3, more! US$29.99/year > > Powered by Outblaze > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:09:22 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>Glutton For Punishment - John Shafer Canopy Conversion Message-ID: <3F724E52.000020.01616@Computer> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 10 Well the canopy conversion is back on track. The cut has been made and t= he door will open.=0D =0D I had to get more resin. I placed an order with Wicks. We usually use A= S.=20 I needed several other little things as well. I placed the order at 11:3= 0 on Monday. I got it today with no back orders. Pretty good service.=0D =0D See Conversion progress and if you are thinking about doing a canopy door like this one, take a real good look at this page and stay tuned before y= ou start cutting.=0D =0D http://kr-builder.org/NewCanopy/index.html =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From cgardn628@rogers.com Wed Sep 24 19:21:13 2003 Received: from fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com ([66.185.86.74]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A2Lkn-000LB5-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 19:21:13 -0700 Received: from mdgwd52jlrmc3l ([63.138.149.186]) by fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com (InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTPid <20030925022327.HMLY165573.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@mdgwd52jlrmc3l> for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:23:27 -0400 Message-ID: <008401c3830c$18eeb850$6401a8c0@mdgwd52jlrmc3l> From: "cgardn628" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <9D054CEF43F1C243A279E5435E9717461DBC20@sviemxs02.gate01.skylines.global> Subject: Re: KR>KR-2S Weight and Balance Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:24:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [63.138.149.186] using ID at Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:23:26 -0400 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Christian, I have not done the tests you mention . I would guess that my KR2S has neutral stability . It stays where you put it in a turn with little tendancy to come out on it's own. Same goes for climb or dive, with level wings . The "hands off " time is maybe 3-5 seconds before some correction is required, depending on turbulence. This is not an IFR type , stable platform aircraft , but a lot of fun to fly VFR and very manageble , even for a low time pilot ( like me) with only about 200 hours ( 90 of them in the KR) . My tail sizes are "stock " RR KR2S and my trim tab is almost neutral , with one pilot and full header tank ( 12 gallons of fuel). Full flap ( 3 notches ...40 degrees ?) puts the trim tab down approx. 1" at the TE. Regards Chris Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 6:58 AM Subject: RE: KR>KR-2S Weight and Balance Chris, I believe you fly a KR-2S with VW engine? Does you airplane have a neutral or even slightly negative stability. Did you do the Stability test as described in the EAA Sport aviation (stick force measurements?)? - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 22:50:20 -0500 From: "Patrick Driscoll" To: "KR Mailing list" Subject: KR>Grounding Message-ID: <006c01c38318$24a431a0$7f2cdacf@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 Just wanted to know if anyone knew what happened to the carbon fiber = cords that used to come off the trailing edges of aircraft in the 40's = and 50's to discharge static buildup. I worked electronics in the Air = Force in the 50' but got out of it when I got out and didn't do any more = electronic work after that, so I am not sure how they cope with static = buildup on aircraft surfaces now, ( I don't see the cords on aircraft = anymore). Pat Driscoll ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:57:09 -0600 From: "Rick Hubka" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>Carbon fibre seats Message-ID: <000001c38319$17f948e0$6701a8c0@hubka22> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Sounds a lot like the carbon fiber seat I made here... http://www.hubka.com/kr-2s_hubka_seat.htm My seat sits 1" off the bottom of the fusalage floor to keep the DF canapy as low as possible and for comfort. The hollow centre 2" arm rest hosts pushrods to a horz stab bell crank. It will also host a push rod for my flaps. I made the arm rest strong enough to park my car on so it can be a step in for passangers because I will have a pilot side Gull Wing entry door. I like the "Obus form back rest" idea. I think I'll incorporate that into the foam insulation for the seat. Take Care and happy building Rick Hubka rick@hubka.com http://www.hubka.com/kr_main.htm Calgary Alberta Canada -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Darren Pond Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 6:38 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Carbon fibre seats HI All Just wanted to let you know I had great success in making carbon fibre seats for my KR2. Wanted to thank Mark and Dan for all the info on their web sites. I made individual buck seat style that rap or hook over the front and aft spar caps. For the back rest I covered the back side of an Obus form back rest insert with plastic then laid up layers of carbon. It fits me just fine with and with out the already complete obus form back rest which come is several colours and happens to be designed to fit most people. I figure it did add up to about $250 Canada worth of materials and Obus form rests. Now onto the belly flap. Darren Pond KR2 C-GGGW 385hour TT before I got it. _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:22:29 +1000 From: Gavin Donohoe To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Engines Message-ID: <000a01c3833e$2b8edda0$d64d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 13 Hi All, Well the age old question, Which engine to use for my KR2S??? Here in Australia we have an engine manufacturing facility for light aircraft engines called Jabiru, and from all accounts they are first class engines. This is what I was at first going to use. However the price is fairly high at just over $18000 AUD for a six cylinder 3300 cc model producing 120 hp. At only 178 lbs in weight they are ideal power plants though a little out of my price range !!! My question is if I go for a VW engine what size do I need for over 100 hp, and can I get a kit of accessories for it, and build an engine from the wrecking yard to fit them to??? Which model VW do I need? What about Corvair engines for Australia ( we don't have them here ) How would I get one over here and what's available to help me build one??? How much are they second hand, and are there any left of the correct model for modification?? Hows the weight of an O200 conti compare to these options ? Thanks Gavin --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 18/09/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:51:45 +0200 From: Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: RE: KR>Grounding Message-ID: <9D054CEF43F1C243A279E5435E9717461DBC29@sviemxs02.gate01.skylines.global> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 Pat, they are still there (at least on B737/767/777's), about 4 inches long and wire, hard plastic coated. If lightning decides to hit in the vicinity of those straps, they melt away like butter. And I guess that's what there main reason is, lightning protection... Cheers Christian OE-VPD http://www.members.aon.at/oevpd -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Driscoll [mailto:patrick36@usfamily.net] Sent: Donnerstag, 25. September 2003 05:50 To: KR Mailing list Subject: KR>Grounding Just wanted to know if anyone knew what happened to the carbon fiber cords that used to come off the trailing edges of aircraft in the 40's and 50's to discharge static buildup. I worked electronics in the Air Force in the 50' but got out of it when I got out and didn't do any more electronic work after that, so I am not sure how they cope with static buildup on aircraft surfaces now, ( I don't see the cords on aircraft anymore). Pat Driscoll ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:08:19 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>New W&B Sheet and Graphic Representation Message-ID: <3F72BE93.000028.01616@Computer> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 15 Chris Gardiner sent his W&B Sheet and a picture of the data points with a= ll dimensions in inches.=0D =0D They are the ones prefixed with CG=0D =0D They are at http://kr-builder.org/WeightAndBalance/index.html=0D =0D Thank you Chris. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From christian.kogelmann@aua.com Thu Sep 25 03:57:22 2003 Received: from mailaua1.aua.com ([193.154.227.29] helo=s0037928.vie.aua.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A2ToI-000NXr-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 03:57:22 -0700 Received: by s0037928.vie.aua.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:59:06 +0200 Message-ID: <9D054CEF43F1C243A279E5435E9717461DBC2A@sviemxs02.gate01.skylines.global> From: Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA To: 'KR builders and pilots' Subject: RE: KR>KR-2S Weight and Balance Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:00:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Thanks Chris, that's what I have, except that you horizontal stabilizer incident must be better for you trim tab position. My trim tab is neutral at half fuel and two in the plane. I have about the same "hands-off" time, but sure it is fun to fly. Thanks again Christian OE-VPD http://www.members.aon.at/oevpd -----Original Message----- From: cgardn628 [mailto:cgardn628@rogers.com] Sent: Donnerstag, 25. September 2003 04:24 To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>KR-2S Weight and Balance Christian, I have not done the tests you mention . I would guess that my KR2S has neutral stability . It stays where you put it in a turn with little tendancy to come out on it's own. Same goes for climb or dive, with level wings . The "hands off " time is maybe 3-5 seconds before some correction is required, depending on turbulence. This is not an IFR type , stable platform aircraft , but a lot of fun to fly VFR and very manageble , even for a low time pilot ( like me) with only about 200 hours ( 90 of them in the KR) . My tail sizes are "stock " RR KR2S and my trim tab is almost neutral , with one pilot and full header tank ( 12 gallons of fuel). Full flap ( 3 notches ...40 degrees ?) puts the trim tab down approx. 1" at the TE. Regards Chris Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 6:58 AM Subject: RE: KR>KR-2S Weight and Balance Chris, I believe you fly a KR-2S with VW engine? Does you airplane have a neutral or even slightly negative stability. Did you do the Stability test as described in the EAA Sport aviation (stick force measurements?)? - _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:12:39 -0500 From: "JIM VANCE" To: "krnet" Subject: KR>Grounding Message-ID: <003f01c38356$291b7fc0$0500a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 16 Thanks, Brian, for a very good message on grounding and wiring. If you use shielded wire to suppress noise, be sure to ground only one = end. If you ground both ends, it becomes a wire and can conduct = current. This sometimes makes for more radio noise that if there were = no shield at all. I've found that it is most effective to ground all = shields to a common point. I used shrink tubing to cover the ungrounded = end of the shield. Also, buy some wire numbers and mark the ends of each wire and put the = number on you wiring schematic. You can't believe the hours you will = save when the bird goes together for the last time. Also, you will = reduce troubleshooting in subsequent years to a few minutes rather than = days. Don't ask me how I know. Jim Vance = Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:18:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable To: KR builders and pilots Subject: RE: KR>Carbon fibre seats Message-ID: <20030925131807.52789.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <000001c38319$17f948e0$6701a8c0@hubka22> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17 Check out my post about Seat Comfort Criteria, this may help. Nice work so far... --- Rick Hubka wrote: > Sounds a lot like the carbon fiber seat I made > here... > > http://www.hubka.com/kr-2s_hubka_seat.htm > > My seat sits 1" off the bottom of the fusalage floor > to keep the DF > canapy as low as possible and for comfort. The > hollow centre 2" arm > rest hosts pushrods to a horz stab bell crank. It > will also host a push > rod for my flaps. I made the arm rest strong enough > to park my car on > so it can be a step in for passangers because I will > have a pilot side > Gull Wing entry door. > > I like the "Obus form back rest" idea. I think I'll incorporate that > into the foam insulation for the seat. > > Take Care and happy building > > Rick Hubka > rick@hubka.com > http://www.hubka.com/kr_main.htm > Calgary Alberta Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On > Behalf Of Darren Pond > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2003 6:38 PM > To: KR builders and pilots > Subject: KR>Carbon fibre seats > > > > HI All > Just wanted to let you know I had great success in > making carbon fibre > seats for my KR2. Wanted to thank Mark and Dan for > all the info on their > web sites. I made individual buck seat style that > rap or hook over the > front and aft spar caps. For the back rest I covered > the back side of an > Obus form back rest insert with plastic then laid up > layers of carbon. > It fits me just fine with and with out the already > complete obus form > back rest which come is several colours and happens > to be designed to > fit most people. > > I figure it did add up to about $250 Canada worth of materials and > Obus form rests. > > Now onto the belly flap. > > Darren Pond > KR2 C-GGGW 385hour TT before I got it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Linden, MI s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 169, Issue 1 *************************************