From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 11:31 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 185, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. EAA Recognition (Mark Jones) 2. Re: EAA Recognition (Dan Heath) 3. Re: Lyc again (Phillip Matheson) 4. Re: EAA Recognition (Phillip Matheson) 5. RE: EAA Recognition (Ron Freiberger) 6. Re: EAA Recognition (Todd Servaes) 7. enlarging the horizontal fin and elevator after it has been finished. (Harold Woods) 8. Control (Colin) 9. Re: Control (Phillip Matheson) 10. Re: Baffels/ Canopies (Phillip Matheson) 11. update (William Clapp) 12. Re: update (Dan Heath) 13. cg /wing tanks (larry flesner) 14. Re: update (William Clapp) 15. Handheld or GPS (William Clapp) 16. RE: Baffels/canopy (Jack Cooper) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:11:06 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR-Net" Subject: KR>EAA Recognition Message-ID: <00ff01c38f62$429b5930$1b65a8c0@insp4100> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 I have been working with the EAA to give our KR more recognition. The = following is a link to a section of their website where they have done = this for us. Please take time to view this as I feel everyone should be = pleased. Let me know what you think. http://www.airventuremuseum.com/collection/aircraft/Rand%20Robinson%20KR-= 1.asp#TopOfPage Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI flykr2s@wi.rr.comFrom norman.seel@verizon.net Fri Oct 10 14:14:29 2003 Received: from out011pub.verizon.net ([206.46.170.135] helo=out011.verizon.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1A84aj-000HJQ-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:14:29 -0700 Received: from pavilion ([4.63.9.6]) by out011.verizon.net (InterMail vM.5.01.05.33 201-253-122-126-133-20030313) with ESMTP id <20031010211804.XRQW5896.out011.verizon.net@pavilion> for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:18:04 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c38f8d$1c96a020$06093f04@dslverizon.net> From: "Norm" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <00ff01c38f62$429b5930$1b65a8c0@insp4100> Subject: Re: KR>EAA Recognition Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:17:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [4.63.9.6] at Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:18:04 -0500 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Beautiful Job. Thank you. Norm Seel Brandon, FL norman.seel@verizon.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR-Net" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:11 PM Subject: KR>EAA Recognition I have been working with the EAA to give our KR more recognition. The following is a link to a section of their website where they have done this for us. Please take time to view this as I feel everyone should be pleased. Let me know what you think. http://www.airventuremuseum.com/collection/aircraft/Rand%20Robinson%20KR-1.a sp#TopOfPage Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI flykr2s@wi.rr.com_______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:59:18 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>EAA Recognition Message-ID: <3F872BB6.000001.03008@Computer> References: <00ff01c38f62$429b5930$1b65a8c0@insp4100> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2 Good work Mark. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From matheson@dodo.com.au Fri Oct 10 15:21:40 2003 Received: from 149.32.220.203.comindico.com.au ([203.220.32.149] helo=relay01.kbs.net.au) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1A85dk-000Hvk-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:21:40 -0700 Received: from [203.220.151.168] (helo=StationW2k04) by relay01.kbs.net.au with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A85hQ-0006LG-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:25:29 +1000 Message-ID: <002101c38f7d$a0fc7750$a897dccb@StationW2k04> From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <000f01c38ecf$2c248070$4560570c@donnas> Subject: Re: KR>Revmaster Engine parts Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:27:01 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I have a friend in Australia that has a Complete Revmaster engine for sale, it needs a new crank shaft, ( I'm told this is a typical thrust bearing problem) It has 250 Hrs total, with all log books and I'm trying to decide if it worth buying to rebuild. The Revmaster web page does not have an email address. Could some kind sole over there in US land close to Revmaster Aviation in Hesperia CA, call them and find me a price on a crank shaft, bearings, Rings and gaskets. I would be very grateful. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:50:34 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Lyc again Message-ID: <001601c38f80$ec834e80$a897dccb@StationW2k04> References: <000a01c38f00$0f1c7100$c64d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/index.php in the us Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin Donohoe" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 4:53 PM Subject: KR>Lyc again > I believe in the U.S there are suppliers for after market parts for Lycoming engines, so as to avoid the high costs of genuine parts can anybody advise me of some suppliers? Prices are outrageous here in Australia and I intend to overhaul myself!! > > Gav > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 29/09/2003 > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:54:41 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>EAA Recognition Message-ID: <003101c38f89$e03a3b30$a897dccb@StationW2k04> References: <00ff01c38f62$429b5930$1b65a8c0@insp4100> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Great Job, well done. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:17:36 -0400 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>EAA Recognition Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00ff01c38f62$429b5930$1b65a8c0@insp4100> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 I think you did a very good job. Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Jones Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 3:11 PM To: KR-Net Subject: KR>EAA Recognition I have been working with the EAA to give our KR more recognition. The following is a link to a section of their website where they have done this for us. Please take time to view this as I feel everyone should be pleased. Let me know what you think. http://www.airventuremuseum.com/collection/aircraft/Rand%20Robinson%20KR-1.a sp#TopOfPage Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI flykr2s@wi.rr.com_______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:36:32 -0700 From: Todd Servaes To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>EAA Recognition Message-ID: <3F875EA0.6050503@vfr.net> References: <00ff01c38f62$429b5930$1b65a8c0@insp4100> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Dear Mark, Thank you for your work securing some past due recognition for the KR line of airplanes. These great little planes seldom get their due. Todd Servaes KR-2S (still in many pieces) Mark Jones wrote: >I have been working with the EAA to give our KR more recognition. The >following is a link to a section of their website where they have done >this for us. Please take time to view this as I feel everyone should be >pleased. Let me know what you think. >http://www.airventuremuseum.com/collection/aircraft/Rand%20Robinson%20K >R-1.asp#TopOfPage > >Mark Jones (N886MJ) >Wales, WI >flykr2s@wi.rr.com_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:58:06 -0400 From: "Harold Woods" To: Subject: KR>enlarging the horizontal fin and elevator after it has been finished. Message-ID: <010b01c38f9b$1d6b73f0$08ee6418@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 It has been indicated that the tail volume of the KR2 is too small. = Greater elevator authority is justified in controling the stability of = the plane. It has been suggested by competant aeronautical authorities = that increasing the span of the elevator by 12 inches and increasing the = cord of the elevator by 3 inches will improve it's flying = characteristics. Nice idea after you have previously built it according = to plans. I am going to add foam to the ends of the present horizontal = stabilizer. (6 inches on each end. I will glass it onto the existing = tips with several layers of epoxy fibreglass.I will then lay up a number = of layers of glass for a new trailing edge and overlay it onto the = existing trailing edge and feather it out. I guess that I will have to = rebalance it again when I am done. Any comments from interested parties = would be welcome either + or -. Harold Woods Orillia,ON,Can. haroldwoods@rogers.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003From johnjane@chc.net.au Fri Oct 10 19:21:56 2003 Received: from 216.93.176.26 ([216.93.176.26] helo=Hot.net.au) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A89OG-000JW2-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:21:56 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by Hot.net.au (8.12.6/8.12.6) id h9B2PV3s037211 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:25:31 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from johnjane@chc.net.au) Received: from amipentium200 (async237-pool-v.in.com.au [203.202.110.237]) by green.hot.net.au (8.12.6/8.12.6) with SMTP id h9B2PSwT036902 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:25:29 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from johnjane@chc.net.au) Message-ID: <000a01c38f9f$0d668360$ed6ecacb@amipentium200> From: "John and Janet Martindale" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <010b01c38f9b$1d6b73f0$08ee6418@HAROLD> Subject: Re: KR>enlarging the horizontal fin and elevator after it has beenfinished. Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:26:14 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-scanner: scanned by Inflex 1.0.12.3 - (http://pldaniels.com/inflex/) X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Harold I reckon the elevator has too much authority. Move it an inch and pitch alters by a mile. It is the horizontal tail that needs increasing in volume not the elevator per say. That is, the elevator then has to work harder to move the tail either way from zero AoA thereby decreasing its sensitivity. John and Janet Martindale 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA ph: 61 2 6658 4767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harold Woods" To: Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 11:58 AM Subject: KR>enlarging the horizontal fin and elevator after it has beenfinished. > It has been indicated that the tail volume of the KR2 is too small. Greater elevator authority is justified in controling the stability of the plane. It has been suggested by competant aeronautical authorities that increasing the span of the elevator by 12 inches and increasing the cord of the elevator by 3 inches will improve it's flying characteristics. Nice idea after you have previously built it according to plans. I am going to add foam to the ends of the present horizontal stabilizer. (6 inches on each end. I will glass it onto the existing tips with several layers of epoxy fibreglass.I will then lay up a number of layers of glass for a new trailing edge and overlay it onto the existing trailing edge and feather it out. I guess that I will have to rebalance it again when I am done. Any comments from interested parties would be welcome either + or -. > Harold Woods > Orillia,ON,Can. > haroldwoods@rogers.com > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 - Release Date: 9/29/2003_______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:34:04 -0400 From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Control Message-ID: <002701c38fa0$2344b2f0$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 8 Harold, I believe in my humble opinion that the KR series aircraft were never = intended to be for entry level people to learn to fly, or with very low = no hours, especially as a taildragger. I am not trying to be insulting = to anyone, but I have seen this many times when others are considering = an aircraft purchase. They desire more plane than their abilities can = operate. So they complain when a responsive aircraft is hard for them to = transition into. They expect a spam can airplane is truly representative = of all aircraft. To get similar speeds to the KR you have to own a = Mooney, or a Bonanza at 4 or 5 times the KR investment. To get their = speed and stability, they make them heavy, lots of dihedral, very = forward CG, and great big thirsty engines. Anyone can learn to fly one = of these, as they can a KR. I believe that your efforts of adding to the = horizontal stab area will only increase your parasitic drag, without a = significant increase in overall stability for the effort, and very = significant drop in overall speed. Giving more attention to moving the = CG forward, and keeping it forward will not only be cheaper, but will = also do more to add overall stability with very little penalty. If one = could get their CG into the first 2 inches fully loaded, and keep it = there throughout fuel burn, you would more closely emulate the certified = aircraft designs. A close inspection of their CG charts show that they = are designed so that as fuel burns, the CG moves forward, making the = aircraft more stable as it gets lighter. Just some thoughts... GREAT JOB MARK JONES!!!! Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From woody@illicom.net Fri Oct 10 19:46:14 2003 Received: from mail.illicom.net ([63.252.229.12] helo=illicom.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A89ll-000Jki-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 19:46:14 -0700 Received: from illicom.net [63.252.231.63] by illicom.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-8.03) id AFBD99A0122; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:49:33 -0500 Message-ID: <3F876FF2.1030708@illicom.net> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:50:26 -0500 From: Don Woodyatt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 (nscd2) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: krnet@mylist.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Declude-Sender: woody@illicom.net [63.252.231.63] X-Note: This E-mail was scanned by Declude JunkMail (www.declude.com) for spam. Subject: KR>Baffels X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Hi all, Does anyone have templates or info for baffles for a Revmaster 2100-D in a KR-2S. Also interested in various canopy and wing tip designs for same. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Woody woody@illicom.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:27:12 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Control Message-ID: <000b01c38faf$f23600a0$bf97dccb@StationW2k04> References: <002701c38fa0$2344b2f0$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Harold. wrote Harold, I believe in my humble opinion that the KR series aircraft were never intended to be for entry level people to learn to fly, or with very low no hours, especially as a taildragger. I am not trying to be insulting to anyone, but I have seen this many times when others are considering an aircraft purchase. They desire more plane than their abilities can operate. So they complain when a responsive aircraft is hard for them to transition into. They expect a spam can airplane is truly representative of ------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------- I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have spoken to many owers of KR's and they love it just the was it is. I hope to have my KR finished one day. The only thing I do not understand in your email is the CofG moving forward as fuel burns off ???? AS fuel burns from a header tank, I would as thought at the CofG would move aft !! ??????? Comments Please !!! Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 12:34 PM Subject: KR>Control Harold, I believe in my humble opinion that the KR series aircraft were never intended to be for entry level people to learn to fly, or with very low no hours, especially as a taildragger. I am not trying to be insulting to anyone, but I have seen this many times when others are considering an aircraft purchase. They desire more plane than their abilities can operate. So they complain when a responsive aircraft is hard for them to transition into. They expect a spam can airplane is truly representative of all aircraft. To get similar speeds to the KR you have to own a Mooney, or a Bonanza at 4 or 5 times the KR investment. To get their speed and stability, they make them heavy, lots of dihedral, very forward CG, and great big thirsty engines. Anyone can learn to fly one of these, as they can a KR. I believe that your efforts of adding to the horizontal stab area will only increase your parasitic drag, without a significant increase in overall stability for the effort, and very significant drop in overall speed. Giving more attention to moving the CG forward, and keeping it forward will not only be cheaper, but will also do more to add overall stability with very little penalty. If one could get their CG into the first 2 inches fully loaded, and keep it there throughout fuel burn, you would more closely emulate the certified aircraft designs. A close inspection of their CG charts show that they are designed so that as fuel burns, the CG moves forward, making the aircraft more stable as it gets lighter. Just some thoughts... GREAT JOB MARK JONES!!!! Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!_______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:35:45 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Baffels/ Canopies Message-ID: <001101c38fb1$23905230$bf97dccb@StationW2k04> References: <3F876FF2.1030708@illicom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Woody. Some KR builders in Australia have ordered a number of Vision Canopies from Todds Canopies in the states http://www.kgarden.com/todd/ This is a Dragonfly canopy. His pricers are about $300 us. Do not know abiut baffels as yet. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.ao Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Woodyatt" To: Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 12:50 PM Subject: KR>Baffels > Hi all, > Does anyone have templates or info for baffles for a Revmaster 2100-D > in a KR-2S. Also interested in various canopy and wing tip designs > for same. Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Woody > woody@illicom.net > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:33:04 -0400 From: "William Clapp" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>update Message-ID: <004c01c38fc1$873ba900$06fcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 Well, I feel good about building the KR right now. The last two weeks = (after some motivation from the Gathering) have been productive. I = finished up my header tank installation, Front deck is almost finished = down to primering, canopy is about ready primering, canopy is hinged and = locks installed, instrument panel is installed, brakes and rudder pedals = finished, rudder finally attached, and seat finished to desired = "sittability".... I can now sit in it- close the canopy - and dream.... = This weekend will be spent at a classic car show with my wind up car, = and hopefully having more fun on the plane. I hope to foam in the = turtledeck and get it made. I got a cowling off of Mark Langford's mold = ( Thanks Mark!) and installed temporarily to see what it looks like -- = Im impressed ! The lines arent bad at all . I have a Todds canopy = which wasnt too bad to install using Home Depot butt molding - I'd have = to show you a drawing to explain, but I had the canopy cut and = installed in less than a week and thats only two to three hours a day! = If I can find a way I will post pictures but I dont have a web site. = Hope everyone else is having as much fun as I am... Happy Building - = Bill ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:46:56 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>update Message-ID: <3F87D190.000018.03008@Computer> References: <004c01c38fc1$873ba900$06fcd241@clapp> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 12 RE: I have a Todds canopy which wasnt too bad to install using Home Depo= t butt molding - I'd have to show you a drawing to explain, but I had the canopy cut and installed in less than a week and thats only two to three hours a day! If I can find a way I will post pictures but I dont have a w= eb site. =0D =0D Bill,=0D =0D What is BUTT molding? Send me your pictures and I will post them. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Sat Oct 11 02:54:11 2003 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A8GRv-000M01-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:54:11 -0700 Received: from Computer ([151.213.92.252]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20031011095748.YYTS28866.mta02-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 04:57:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F87D423.00001A.03008@Computer> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:57:55 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <002701c38fa0$2344b2f0$05462141@Beverly> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: Re: KR>Control Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: RE: Giving more attention to moving the CG forward, and keeping it forwa= rd will not only be cheaper, but will also do more to add overall stability with very little penalty=0D =0D Colin,=0D =0D I totally agree with you on this, except that with a header tank, the CG does move aft as the fuel burns off. I am also in total agreement with J= im Faughn about the importance of getting the CG in the right place. I am convinced that CG is the key to stability on this aircraft.=0D =0D While a low time pilot can learn to fly a conventional gear aircraft, in = a KR, it is difficult. I did it, but not without much difficulty and sever= al mishaps. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Sat Oct 11 03:00:00 2003 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A8GXX-000M4F-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 02:59:59 -0700 Received: from Computer ([151.213.92.252]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20031011100336.YZKQ28866.mta02-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:03:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F87D57F.00001C.03008@Computer> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:03:43 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <000a01c38f9f$0d668360$ed6ecacb@amipentium200> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: Re: KR>enlarging the horizontal fin and elevator after it hasbeenfinished. Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: One other thing, remember that every ounce that you add to the tail will translate to some weight much larger than an ounce that you will have to = add somewhere forward of CG to offset it. =0D =0D I am building my second KR. I have 185 hours in my first one. I believe that there are mods that greatly enhance the original KR and messing with the tail aren't any of them. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 11 05:21:56 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.1.43]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A8Iku-000NGb-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:21:56 -0700 Received: from Beverly (5.70.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.70.5]) by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.5) with SMTP id h9BCPW1f004725 for ; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:25:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002c01c38ff2$c353c310$05462141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:25:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>cg X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Phillip and others, Not withstanding the KR, a much desired response of an aircraft is that = when it gets lighter, the CG moves forward to offset the natural = tendency of a lighter aircraft to be less stable. Most certified = aircraft have fuel tanks/cells located in a such a way as to cause the = CG to move forward as fuel is burned so that if the aircraft is properly = loaded, there will be no appreciable change in its stability due to = getting lighter. I was suggesting that if one really wanted to add to = the stability of the KR, then configuring for fuel just behind the main = spar, such as Mark's stub wing tanks, or one of the other similar = designs, would have the CG aft when full of fuel and moving forward to = offset the loss of weight stability. I have chosen to move the seats = forward 4/5" (bottom 4; back 5") to move the CG more forward. This is = actually a secondary benefit due to having to move the seat up anyway = for me to be able to fly the plane; I am too short to fly it properly = from the original seat position! Later I intend to add a drag racing = pre-made fuel cell of about 5 gallons, directly behind the right seat, = with outside venting and filler. It will pump into the header tank so = that during cruise flight I can run off the header tank giving the = performance gain of an aft CG while cruising. Just prior to descent, I = will refill the header tank, moving the CG back forward and stabilizing = the aircraft for landing. I believe that Larry Flesner has wing tanks = also located just behind the spar. This would also accomplish moving the = CG forward as fuel burns. My overall point was that rather than = changing airfoils, and adding length etc... the easier and I believe = more productive way of adding stability to the KR is to give maximum = attention to the CG placement and making sure that it gets into and = stays as close to the forward limit as practical. An aft CG brings the = CG too close to the Center of Pressure which is the main lift point of = the wing. A good analogy of this feeling is trying to balance on one = foot on a fence pole. You never quit compensating for = movement/balancing. A forward CG is like being able to drop your other = foot down to stabilize you. Big difference. Just don't go out the front = of the limit, or at slow speeds you will not have enough elevator = authority to maintain level flight, or to flare on landing. Sorry about being long winded... Colin Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From flesner@midwest.net Sat Oct 11 05:59:58 2003 Received: from capitol.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.180]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1A8JLi-000NTu-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 05:59:58 -0700 Received: from dsc04-cir-oh-207-221-233-108.rasserver.net ([207.221.233.108] helo=larry-flesner) by capitol.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1A8JPC-0001E2-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:03:35 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20031011075753.008aade0@pop.midwest.net> X-Sender: flesner@pop.midwest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:57:53 -0500 To: KR builders and pilots From: larry flesner In-Reply-To: <3F876FF2.1030708@illicom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: KR>wing tips X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: >Does anyone have templates or info for baffles for a Revmaster 2100-D >in >a KR-2S. Also interested in various canopy and wing tip designs for same. >Woody ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When I built my wing tips I was more concerned with getting them both the same shape than I was with the shape itself. The technique I "stumbled" upon actually produced a tip that very closely resembles a "Hoerner" style tip. Also, I added my tips after having the wing panels completely glassed. The technique should work with only the top surface glassed. The following is basiclly the way I did it: I added 2 two inch foam blocks to each wing tip (glued to the 36 inch rib) for a total of 4 inchs of foam. You should be able to make longer tips if you want and the process should still work. Next I sanded the foam to airfoil shape and glassed the top surface. When cured, I sanded the edge straight with a sanding board and then flipped the wing to "bottom up". I'll try not to lose you on what I call "cut-back" angle. I used a 2 inch cut-back but I think a 3 or 4 inch cut-back might be better and would make for a more tappered tip. I'd suggest you go 3 inches and if you don't like the angle cut again to 4 inches. Let me explain. I used a hacksaw blade to cut the foam. I biased the blade against the finished fiberglass edge of the top surface and followed the line on the bottom where the 2 inch foam blocks were joined. As the wing thickness varies so does the shape of the tip. It goes from a very flat angle at the thin trail edge to a much more shallow angle at the thick part of the wing just like a "Hoerner" tip. Next radius the lead and trail edge corners. I used a large mixing cup for the lead edge radius and a corner of a tape measure for the trail edge. Just pick something that looks right. Last, sand a small radius on the bottom side cut line and round over the lead edge radius. Two minutes of light hand sanding should do it. Add the glass and finish. Make sure you cut back the foam at the finished edge ( top surface ) and add some "resin rich flox" so you get a good bond between the top and bottom glass surfaces. If you go to http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/26.jpg you can get a bit of an idea what I'm talking about. This is a very poor picture and you can't really see the angle changes with wing thickness or the radiused corners. It does give you a bit of an idea of the 2 inch cutback angle and why I think it could be 3 or 4 inches. I'm sure this is clear as mud, right? Your results may vary........... Larry ( running up and down the runway in my KR ) Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:15:08 -0500 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>cg /wing tanks Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031011081508.007a1100@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <002c01c38ff2$c353c310$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 I believe that Larry Flesner has wing tanks also located just behind the spar. This would also accomplish moving the CG forward as fuel burns. >Colin Rainey KR2(td) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ My fuel tanks, 12.5 gal each, are located in each outer wing panel. They start 1/2 inch (foam) behind the forward spar and extend toward the trail edge 10 inches. They run the entire length of the outer wing panel from root to 36 inch tip rib. I had them figured mathmaticly at 12.5 gal before building and they turned out to be about 12.8 gal each. Because the main portion of the tanks are within the CG range, my CG location moves forward approx 1 inch from full tanks to empty tanks. picture at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/22.jpg Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:59:57 -0400 From: "William Clapp" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>update Message-ID: <004801c39010$b88f9580$5afcd241@clapp> References: <004c01c38fc1$873ba900$06fcd241@clapp> <3F87D190.000018.03008@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 To answer Dan's question about Butt molding - It is a tapered wood molding the cross section looks like a smooth curved triangle. 3/4 incch or so on the bottom and tapers to a point. Two of these are glued back to back to create a rail on top of the longerons and the canopy is sandwiched between. It is really quite simple to build and creates a curved surface that comforms to the fuse inside and out and provides a good hinge and latch attachment. I had these build in a couple hours and the canopy was installed the next day. Two days (a couple hours a day) later and it is finished and hinged. Dan has some pics. Hope this helps. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Heath To: Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 5:46 AM Subject: Re: KR>update RE: I have a Todds canopy which wasnt too bad to install using Home Depot butt molding - I'd have to show you a drawing to explain, but I had the canopy cut and installed in less than a week and thats only two to three hours a day! If I can find a way I will post pictures but I dont have a web site. Bill, What is BUTT molding? Send me your pictures and I will post them. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 12:02:23 -0400 From: "William Clapp" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Handheld or GPS Message-ID: <005101c39011$0fa4acc0$5afcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 15 Anybody have a good used handheld or GPS for sale? Just looking to save = a few bucks. The handheld is just until I can afford my radios.... I = may have to buy my radio and transponder after flying off = hours.....Gathering '04....Maybe..... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:30:24 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: RE: KR>Baffels/canopy Message-ID: <410-2200310611183024140@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 Don I was especially interested in canopies at the gathering this year and so took several pictures of canopies. Maybe the pictures on my website will help you. Click on the link in my signature block then click on 2003 gathering. Robert J. (Jack) Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net http://www.jackandsandycoooper.com/kr2 Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: Don Woodyatt > To: > Date: 10/10/03 10:49:33 PM > Subject: KR>Baffels > > Hi all, > Does anyone have templates or info for baffles for a Revmaster 2100-D > in > a KR-2S. Also interested in various canopy and wing tip designs for same. > Any thoughts greatly appreciated. > Woody > woody@illicom.net > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 185, Issue 1 *************************************