From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 193, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Update (Mark Jones) 2. Re: paint (Steven Eberhart) 3. Oil cooler (Colin) 4. Re: Update (Dan Heath) 5. Re: paint (Ray Fuenzalida) 6. Re: fairings (roger mitchell) 7. Re: paint (Timothy Bellville) 8. Re: paint (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:48:45 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Subject: KR>Update Message-ID: <006f01c395b9$39c97be0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 I have been making a cowl which is 90% complete. And I have been = sanding...sanding...sanding...sanding...well you know what I mean and if = you don't....you will. Here is a direct link to my newly added Body Work = page... http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/bodywork.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:03:14 -0500 From: Steven Eberhart To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>paint Message-ID: <3F91AA92.2050706@newtech.com> References: <20031017134220.16208.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com> <3F8FFE5B.6050707@newtech.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2 Mark, I guess I should have stated my thesis first. I was actually trying to=20 defend your choice of darker colors. Guess I didn't get my point across=20 very well. The post I was responding to was the one about parking your=20 red bottom airplane on a hot ramp was going to do a Sambo on it and melt=20 it down into butter. I was assuming the ramp temperatures would be=20 something on the order of the temperatures measured on the surface of=20 the red Lancair and would be within the Tg range of your post cured=20 composite structures. It doesn't matter if you put it out in the sun=20 while still black or baked it in an oven. They both result in a valid=20 post cure. You documented the post cure back somewhere in the depth of=20 your web site. But, I am worried about Dana exceeding the Tg of his posterior in that=20 black RV of his :-) Steve Eberhart Steven Eberhart wrote: > Interesting thought. Not jumping in on either side of this > discussion=20 but those that know me know that I usually run off to > find the nearest=20 expert to get the facts when a discussion like > this comes up. In this=20 case I headed for my library. I don't > think much of Martin Hollman but= =20 > in this case he is just reporting facts from reputable sources. In > his= =20 > book "Modern Aircraft Design Volume 2" he lists some temperatures >that=20 were measured by embedded thermocouples in the Red Lancair 320 >factory=20 demonstrator. =20 > A surface temperature of 153F was measured on the top surface of the=20 > wing on a 95F ambient day at Oshkosh. A surface temperature of 180F wa= s=20 > measured on a 104F ambient day. On the same type of surface but > painte= d=20 > white a surface temperature of 126F was measured on a 95F ambient day. >=20 The glass transition temperature for Safe-T-Poxy With room >temperature=20 cure is 151F but when post cured at a temperature of >200F the glass=20 transition temperature goes up to 196F. >=20 > I wonder if sitting out on a hot asphalt ramp would result in a post=20 > cure that would actually increase the glass transition temperature. Jus= t=20 > don't think I would want to launch into the wild blue immediately > after= =20 > the first environmental post cure before the surfaces had a chance >to=20 return to normal temperatures. :-) =20 > Just the facts mam. Now on Dana's black RV-7 I think the only thing he= =20 > should be concerned with it the glass transition temperature of his=20 >posterior :-) =20 > Steve Eberhart >=20 >=20 > Ameet Savant wrote: >=20 >> Okay, >> >> I am not totally convinced with this argument. >> >> If the heat radiating from a really hot asphalt >> parking spot happens to delaminate your airfoil skin >> over and over again. The birds flights also impose >> repeated stresses on the delaminated skins. then >> eventually the skin might depart from the structure. I >> don't think an aircraft can fly only on it's "wood >> spars". >> >> You give the anology of the steel structure with >> fabric on it. well I don;t think the plane can fly >> with the fabric torn in many places. I am talking >> about the wing only... The fueslage might be ok. >> However, I wouldn't want to reskin my fuselage every >> few years. >> >> The pain looks great!... but I have concerns that it >> is an unneccesary risk for an otherwise beautiful job! >> >> my 2=A2 >> >> Ameet Savant >> >> >>> I'm surprised that nobody's pointed out that >>> the manual says to >>> paint the thing white yet. My argument is that the structure of >>> this plane is wood, not composite. All the composite stuff >>> does while on the ground is >>> help the airfoils and decks retain their shape >>> (kinda like fabric on a steel >>> tube plane). The spar and landing gear take the 1g >>> loads while sitting on >>> the ground. When flying, the skin temperature will >>> be down to ambient about >>> 100 yards down the runway on takeoff, if not while >>> taxiing, so it's not a >>> factor. >> >> >> >>> Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search >> http://shopping.yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html >> >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html >=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:05:33 -0400 From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Oil cooler Message-ID: <002201c395bb$923c1560$05462141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 3 Bill,=20 My only thoughts about your oil cooler/filter combo is that are you in = any way changing the routing of the oil flow through the block? Most = engines I have dealt with pump oil first to the main bearings to protect = the crank, and then "back up the pressure" through the oil filter and = then up through the block, arriving last at the camshaft, and lifter = valley. The Corvair is a flat engine design, and my experience has been = with v-engine designs. The only exception to this circulation pattern = has been the Buick V-6 which pumped oil through the filter first and = then to the top of the block, arriving at the crankshaft last. My point = being that although you may "see" great oil pressure on a gauge, your = engine may receive in-adequate oil circulation due to your filter = emptying back in a t the top of the block, rather than through a port = near the original oil filter location. Most oil filter housings I have = encountered have a source port from the oil pump, an exit port to the = block, ad an internal port to bypass the filter in the event of a = blocked filter. All auto filter relocation kits I have seen have a = plate that duplicates the filter, and just circulates through it = remotely. Thoughts....=20 Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sat Oct 18 14:08:49 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-01-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.131] helo=ms-smtp-01-eri0.tampabay.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1AAyJd-0003NQ-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:08:49 -0700 Received: from Beverly (5.70.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.70.5]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id h9ILCicF005605 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002e01c395bc$90ff8140$05462141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:12:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Pressure X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Bill,=20 OOOpsss, forgot to address one thing. Oil pressure should be read at = the lowest point in the block, not the highest point. If you read the = highest pressure, than when you get a drop in pressure, damage may have = been done elsewhere. If you see the pressure at the lowest pressure in = the engine, it will drop first there, and might give you adequate time = for shutdown prior to damage. Hence, on a small block Chevy, read the = pressure at the last cam bearing, at the top of the block, then at the = filter near the oil pump. Pressure loss there ensures that the rest of = the block is still getting good oil pressure, and prompt shutdown may = only require correction, instead of partial/total rebuild. Thoughts.... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From clappscar@cybersouth.com Sat Oct 18 14:30:08 2003 Received: from [207.53.87.62] (helo=cybersouth.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AAyeF-0003e7-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:30:07 -0700 Received: from clapp [65.210.252.80] by cybersouth.com (SMTPD32-7.15) id A0D46F501E2; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:29:56 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01c395bf$cfb147e0$50fcd241@clapp> From: "William Clapp" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <002e01c395bc$90ff8140$05462141@Beverly> Subject: Re: KR>Pressure Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:35:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: The problem with the Corvair is that there isnt a way to get a pressure after the oil enters the galley for the bearings. The original setup is to get pressure just after the pump. I would read pressure after the pump, filter, and cooler so I get pressure just as it enters the main galleys. The filter and cooler would be a full-flow system with an internal bypass at the filter only - non at the cooler. It seems to be the simplist way to route the oil system on the Corvair. Maybe not the optimal thing but best I can figure with this design..If someone has figured out another way please let me know... Thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: Colin To: KR builders and pilots Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 5:12 PM Subject: KR>Pressure Bill, OOOpsss, forgot to address one thing. Oil pressure should be read at the lowest point in the block, not the highest point. If you read the highest pressure, than when you get a drop in pressure, damage may have been done elsewhere. If you see the pressure at the lowest pressure in the engine, it will drop first there, and might give you adequate time for shutdown prior to damage. Hence, on a small block Chevy, read the pressure at the last cam bearing, at the top of the block, then at the filter near the oil pump. Pressure loss there ensures that the rest of the block is still getting good oil pressure, and prompt shutdown may only require correction, instead of partial/total rebuild. Thoughts.... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!_______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:05:04 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Update Message-ID: <3F91C720.000007.02224@Computer> References: <006f01c395b9$39c97be0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Mark,=0D =0D I am getting a "page cannot be displayed". =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:48:10 PM=0D To: KR Net=0D Subject: KR>Update=0D =0D I have been making a cowl which is 90% complete. And I have been sanding.= =2E sanding...sanding...sanding...well you know what I mean and if you don't.= =2E. you will. Here is a direct link to my newly added Body Work page...=0D http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/bodywork.html=0D =0D Mark Jones (N886MJ)=0D Wales, WI USA=0D E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com=0D Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at=0D http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html=0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom DanRH@alltel.net Sat Oct 18 16:02:27 2003 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AB05b-0005ZG-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:02:27 -0700 Received: from Computer ([151.213.92.252]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20031018230621.JZWK28866.mta02-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:06:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3F91C76C.000009.02224@Computer> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:06:20 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <006f01c395b9$39c97be0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: Subject: Re: KR>Update Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Mark,=0D =0D Please disregard, must have been on my end. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KR builders and pilots=0D Date: Saturday, October 18, 2003 4:48:10 PM=0D To: KR Net=0D Subject: KR>Update=0D =0D I have been making a cowl which is 90% complete. And I have been sanding.= =2E sanding...sanding...sanding...well you know what I mean and if you don't.= =2E. you will. Here is a direct link to my newly added Body Work page...=0D http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/bodywork.html=0D =0D Mark Jones (N886MJ)=0D Wales, WI USA=0D E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com=0D Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at=0D http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html=0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom aviator42@msn.com Sat Oct 18 17:23:21 2003 Received: from bay5-dav62.bay5.hotmail.com ([65.54.173.92] helo=hotmail.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AB1Lt-0006Am-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:23:21 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:27:16 -0700 Received: from 63.157.36.65 by bay5-dav62.bay5.hotmail.com with DAV; Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:27:16 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [63.157.36.65] X-Originating-Email: [aviator42@msn.com] From: "Mike Turner" To: , "KR builders and pilots" References: Subject: Re: KR>Project for sale... half price day Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:27:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 8.5 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V8.50.0017.1202 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:27:23 -0500 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Oct 2003 00:27:16.0731 (UTC) FILETIME=[BFF1D4B0:01C395D7] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Ron, if you decide to part it out I would be interested in the = insts and panel also the landing gear. Mike Turner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ron Freiberger=20 To: KR Builders and Flyers=20 Cc: jfredhensley@comcast.net=20 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 8:01 PM Subject: KR>Project for sale... half price day I've decided to sell my KR2 project. You can see details at http://home.swfla.rr.com/ronmartha/ in the Ron'sKR2 directory. This aircraft was started as a stretch KR2 with 14 inches added aft, and 5 = inches forward. Width is standard, and controls are set to allow single or = dual operation. Spars are finished and wing parts ready to foam. Aluminum = tanks <3> and set up for good CG control. See detailed description at = KR2.rtf Lots of pictures, in a somewhat organized grouping. I've spent $11,317 somewhat wisely, and will sell for half price = ($5653) until mid November. Then, if not sold, I will part it out on eBay = when I get back to Florida in January. See $'s invested at KR INVEST.rtf If you want to see what I've built previously, see MY Planes.doc Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:34:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Fuenzalida To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>paint Message-ID: <20031019033420.60064.qmail@web42003.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 Do you still have this problem when you have the Diehl wing skins? Instead of foam and fiberglass, you have a prefab fiberglass shell over wood spars and foam ribs. almost everything else is wood. I had been thinking of a military motif which would have a lot of dark green. >From a new builder (half way there - bought it that way). Ray --- Oscar Zuniga wrote: > Netters; > > Mark Langford knows what he's doing. The critical > temp for extruded > polystyrene foam (blue Dow or pink Owens-Corning) is > about 165F, a > temperature that can be exceeded when a "KR of > color" sits out on the ramp > in the sun at your typical fly-in. However, > urethane foam (polyisocyanurate > or other) does not have this same critical > temperature at which it loses its > dimensional stability, and I believe Mark has used > urethane foam for the > majority of his construction. > > One of the main problems with polystyrene foam and > the temperature > limitation that indicates the use of predominately > white paint is that the > plane will develop a case of the "bulges", where > bumps and blisters, and > later sags and valleys, as well as ridges, develop > as the plane's structure > heats up into that temperature. These are the > things that can lead to > delamination of the fiberglass skins and also make > the plane look plumb > ugly. > > This is besides the thermal effects on the > structural airframe epoxy and the > fiberglass skin epoxy, both of which have their own > problems but not like > the polystyrene foam. > > What was it Virg always says, "build to the plans"? > If you don't know what > you're doing, paint it white and you'll be on the > safe side... > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with MSN Messenger 6.0 -- download > now! > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_general > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 04:00:50 -0500 From: "roger mitchell" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>fairings Message-ID: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 oscar I have made a fairing for my kr2s tail wheel,could possably make a = mold to reproduce it for those intrested,will try to send a picture of = it if you want ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Oscar Zuniga=20 To: krnet@mylist.net=20 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 1:11 PM Subject: KR>fairings Netters; Someone asked the question about the possibility or benefit of fairing = the=20 tailwheel. I haven't seen any takers on that, so I thought I'd throw = out=20 something I just read in the Fall '03 issue of "To Fly" last night, = about a=20 Thorp T-18 that a gent built and documented the performance changes = due to=20 fairings, cowlings, and etc. since the Thorp was originally conceived = and=20 designed as an open-cockpit airplane with the engine cylinders hanging = out=20 in the breeze and unfaired Wittman-style spring gear. The Thorp is similar to the KR in a few ways, but that's not the = point. =20 What is of interest is the magnitude of the gain for each modification = or=20 improvement. Among other things, the builder said that each of the=20 following gained 2 to 4 MPH in top speed: adding wheel pants, fairing = the=20 pant/landing gear leg junction, and fairing the tailwheel spring. He = did=20 not mention a "pant" for the tailwheel itself. He also said that=20 down-pointing exhaust stacks cost him 3 MPH (ergo, Mark Langford's = approach=20 of turning them into the slipstream. Also a potential for some thrust = gain). He figured that with the fairings and streamlining he did on = his=20 airplane, every 10 MPH gain in top speed due to drag reduction equated = to 25=20 fewer HP required (for the Thorp)... with the associated weight, = complexity,=20 cost, fuel consumption, and the rest of it. And of course the rate of = climb=20 has the same gains and losses as top speed. In passing, and since it's Friday (in Texas, anyway), here's something = I=20 didn't know... also from "To Fly". Art Chester, the racer who built = the=20 "Goon", "Jeep", and "Swee' Pea" back in the pre-WWII days, worked for = North=20 American and was on the P-51 design team. He is responsible for the = design=20 and construction of the innovative box-beam bed mount for the Allison = engine=20 in the P-51. Also interestingly, the British specs for the airplane = (we=20 made some for them) were for a pilot size of 5'-10" and 145 lbs., = which were=20 Art's exact measurements. So he was the "test dummy" for fitting the=20 cockpit of the prototype to the British specs and everything was made = to fit=20 him. The longer I live, the more I learn! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American = Greetings!=20 Go to = http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=3Dmsne134 _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:34:46 -0400 From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>paint Message-ID: <002701c3963d$62288520$705f570c@donnas> References: <20031017134220.16208.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com><3F906996.000001.02736@Computer><1dd501c3950b$c72cd990$1202a8c0@basement><002b01c39557$9c4e5ae0$9f5f570c@donnas> <1e5b01c3957a$93b1fd10$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Hi Mark, Well I'd be lying if I said you didn't scare the hell out of me about using silver paint.( I have two Gal.) Do you see any problems using a handheld with it's own antenna not grounded to the airframe?Would it be the same as in a Spam can? I don't plan on using the Nav on it as this is a day VFR only plane(mine, not the design) As far as the feather fill, I too am not trying to achieve perfection but get close as I can within reason and feather fill is said to be great at sanding and filling imperfections, But I still want the UV protection from the smooth prime. Thanks again, Tim Bellville KR2 N7038V ---- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 9:20 AM Subject: Re: KR>paint > Tim wrote: > > > I plan on using "Nevada silver" as a base and considering a checkerboard > > pattern on the nose. > > The thing about silver is that is entirely composed of metallic aluminum > chips. You might argue that it's very thin, and you'd be right, be so is > aluminum foil, the stuff that people use to make ground planes out of. I > was thinking about painting my plane the same color as my car, which has a > little metallic in it. An electrical engineer buddy whose specialty is > antennas modeled my vertical stab and antenna in some software that analyzes > antenna patterns at specific frequencies. While the signal improved > slightly out front (for 123 kHz), it just about got killed completely from > behind, thanks to the vertical stab and rudder behind it. That's bad > enough, but then it dawned on me that the other half of antenna dipole is > buried INSIDE the fuselage, and beneath the aft deck, so you might as well > throw that leg away entirely! That's when I went to just plain red. Based > on his analysis, and the experience of others, silver paint would seriously > degrade antenna performance, which is why I'm probably going with a very > light gray on top instead. My thinking is that white or light gray is easy > to see from above, and a dark color such as red is easy to see from below. > If neither of those arguments hold water, then it's just because I like red! > > > As A side note, do you see any problem using feather fill over > smoothprime? > > I don't know about Feather Fill, but I sprayed an entire layer of urethane > primer over Smooth Prime on my plane. Not that it proves anything, just > that I don't think there'll be a problem with what I did. Can't say about > Feather Fill, since it's polyester based. Wouldn't you want to follow > Smooth Prime with the primer or sealer that's recommended for your top coat? > For example, DuPont's Ultimate 2K urethane primer is OK for use directly > under DuPont's urethane colors, and it has a great build and is easy to > sand. It's working for me. Feather Fill might be just fine, but I don't > know. I guess I should let somebody that knows what they're talking about > answer that one... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 09:43:11 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>paint Message-ID: <1eaf01c3964f$51f417c0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <20031017134220.16208.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com><3F906996.000001.02736@Computer><1dd501c3950b$c72cd990$1202a8c0@basement><002b01c39557$9c4e5ae0$9f5f570c@donnas><1e5b01c3957a$93b1fd10$1202a8c0@basement> <002701c3963d$62288520$705f570c@donnas> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Tim Bellville wrote: > Do you see any problems using a handheld with it's own antenna not grounded > to the airframe? Would it be the same as in a Spam can? I don't know if it would be any worse than if attached to the radio, but it might be, since the rado frame probably acts as a primitive ground plane. It certainly wouldn't be as good as a spam can, since they really do have ground planes. But I'm no expert on antennas. > As far as the feather fill, I too am not trying to achieve perfection but > get close as I can within reason and feather fill is said to be great at > sanding and filling imperfections, But I still want the UV protection from > the smooth prime. I can't help but think that Feather Fill has been written into KR folklore with old issues of the Newsletter with a status that it probably deserved then, but wouldn't rate now. I went to buy some last year and had to special order the stuff. The guy at the paint store said he just didn't ever sell it anymore...no demand at all. It's 30 year old technology, and you know as well as I do that paint has come a long way in 30 years. I used DuPont's Ultimate 2K urethane primer on mine. It has a high build, filled all the scratches from my 80 grit sandpaper that I "finished" with, and is impervious to just about everything, just like urethane paint. I could have primed the plane with it, gotten oil all over the belly during testing, and just wiped it off with a solvent and painted it later on. Just about all automotive paint has UV protection built into it now. The clearcoat that I'm using is where all the UV protection is in the Nason basecoat/clearcoat system. This protects the clearcoat, the paint, the primer, and the composites below. I guess manufacturers got the clue in the 80's with all that clearcoat fading to oblivion on the hoods of so many GM cars. Smooth Prime's great claim to fame is filling pinholes, and it does that by virtue of having a relatively slow drying time so that you have time to force the stuff down into the pin holes with a roller. Once that's done, Smooth Prime has done its job in my book, and the majority of it can be sanded off. After that, it's time for a coat of whatever primer your topcoat requires, and the top coat. I think the use of peelply goes a long way toward eliminating the need for Smooth Prime entirely, and it sure is a lot quicker, less messy, and cheaper! I should mention that I'm not an expert on paint either....I just play one on KRNet! I'm just forwarding what I've learned in the last few months in hopes that it might help others. Painters that actually know what they are talking about are welcome to chime in... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 193, Issue 1 *************************************