From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 6:51 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Controls (Phillip Matheson) 2. Re: my web site (Phillip Matheson) 3. Re: Rudder Cables./ Stops (Phillip Matheson) 4. New Addition to the KR Family (Scott Cable) 5. Re: New Addition to the KR Family (Dan Heath) 6. KR vrs Dragonfly - safety (Steve and Lori McGee) 7. kr2 handling characteristics (Raymond Hightower) 8. Fiberglass (Gavin Donohoe) 9. (no subject) (Gavin Donohoe) 10. RE: (no subject) (Philip Maley) 11. Re: New Addition to the KR Family (Phil Matheson) 12. Re: Fiberglass (Dan Heath) 13. Re: Fiberglass (F Ross) 14. Re: kr2 handling characteristics (F Ross) 15. Re: Fiberglass (larry flesner) 16. Re: KR vrs Dragonfly - safety (F Ross) 17. Fiberglass (JIM VANCE) 18. Re: kr2 handling characteristics (Bob Stone) 19. Re: Fiberglass ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:57:01 +1100 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Controls Message-ID: <002001c39e5f$33ba3970$9696dccb@StationW2k04> References: <000a01c39ba5$74c543e0$0c4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Gavin My stick is made of 1" 4130, but your 1 1/8" T6 , and only a foot or so long, should be OK, but I'm not an engineer. Good luck with the project Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:05:57 +1100 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>my web site Message-ID: <002801c39e60$737ce5c0$9696dccb@StationW2k04> References: <1c0.10c3b0fa.2ccdb8f8@aol.com> <036c01c39c21$1d1c3eb0$4000a8c0@t1w419> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Barry If John Martindale is on line, he put a balance just behind his seat, it is similar the Mark Langfords set up only closer to the front. Aub Coote of Geelong has a spring loaded trim on his KR that works well, no weight at the rear at all. Reg Brody at Holbrook in Southern NSW( I looked at his yesterday, has a Bungee cord tension on his, that also seem s to work well, The spring loaded trim drawing is the one I mailed to Mark Langford some time back. I still may have a spare copy Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Kruyssen" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: Re: KR>my web site > John Monday as asked to very question I was about to ask. > I already have a CofG problem and have added lead to my front engine > mount to correct. Puting more weight that far back is really going to > cost me in weight. > > Are there other ways to get the same result? > Spring tention on the upper cable? or on both with a bias to the top cable? > Replace the cables with a push/pull rod and put the counter weight on > the foreward pivot point of the rod (rear spar)? > > On another note: > This is by far the best email list I've been part of. > The information is great, not to much bull .......dust. Thanks to all > who contribute to this list. > > The more I read, the more I learn and then I realise, the less I know! :-) > > Thanks > Barry Kruyssen > kr2@BigPond.com > > AUF Registered 19-3873 > http://users.tpg.com.au/barryk/kr2.htm > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "roger mitchell" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 10:10 AM > Subject: Re: KR>my web site > > > bear in mind the farther forward you can place the weight ,the more > effective per oz. it will be.on the stab. also a little wit of weigth > 10 ft. > aft of your C.G. has a large effect > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JSMONDAY@aol.com > To: krnet@mylist.net > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 5:55 PM > Subject: Re: KR>my web site > > > I would be curious to see if anyone has plans for the extended > elevator for > counter weight. I have heard people wanting to extend the h/s 6" on > either > side for better pitch control (when they are heavier!) Can I add on > to the end > of my elevator 6" on each side and add counter weight.. should it be > the full > length (deepth) or the horizontal stabilizer??? > > Thanks, > John Monday > KR2S > Laguna Beach, CA > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:36:28 +1100 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>Rudder Cables./ Stops Message-ID: <008001c39e64$b6ae72b0$9696dccb@StationW2k04> References: <003601c39dc0$96e5f380$0301a8c0@wotech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Why not put stops on your Rudder pedals, at Max travel , so they can only travel the correct distance, and then you can not damage the rudder horn. I know this will not stop putting weight on both pedals at the same time, but will help putting to much weight on one side of the horn Just my 2 cents Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:26:56 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>New Addition to the KR Family Message-ID: <20031029222656.94904.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 Netters, I know this isn't exactly KR related, but I'm proud to announce the newest addition to the KR Family of Builders and Pilots. His Name is Coy Lane Mathis, 6 lbs 7 oz. Has 19 inches of longitudinal length. Breathed his first breath of life at 2:03 pm Central time.... 2nd Grandbaby, 1st Grandson! Momma and baby are doing fine. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:30:32 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>New Addition to the KR Family Message-ID: <3FA04D98.000006.03924@Computer> References: <20031029222656.94904.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 Congratulations, it is always great to have a new builder and pilot. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From cartera@cuug.ab.ca Wed Oct 29 16:29:24 2003 Received: from [192.75.191.21] (helo=mail.cuug.ab.ca) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AF0gm-000OHd-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:29:24 -0800 Received: from cuug.ab.ca (pm1-120.cuug.ab.ca [192.75.191.120]) by mail.cuug.ab.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EB0255DCE for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:33:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FA05C98.2060704@cuug.ab.ca> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:34:32 -0700 From: cartera User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>New Addition to the KR Family References: <20031029222656.94904.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031029222656.94904.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Congratulations Grand Dad! Adrian Scott Cable wrote: >Netters, >I know this isn't exactly KR related, but I'm proud to announce the >newest addition to the KR Family of Builders and Pilots. His Name is >Coy Lane Mathis, 6 lbs 7 oz. Has 19 inches of longitudinal length. >Breathed his first breath of life at 2:03 pm Central >time.... 2nd Grandbaby, 1st Grandson! >Momma and baby are doing fine. > >===== >Scott Cable >KR-2S # 735 >Wright City, MO >s2cable1@yahoo.com > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears >http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ > >_______________________________________________ >see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:00:32 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Subject: KR>KR vrs Dragonfly - safety Message-ID: <000e01c39e81$387cd220$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 No I am currently not a pilot, but want to be and want to be an old = pilot. Please bear with me and read carefully before throwing stones = and kicking me off the site. Having worked in the quality field for 15 years it has become second = nature to apply simple improvements and controls on my decisions / = lifestyle for safety and enjoyment. Example - having been a = motorcyclest for 30 years, and the most mileage and riding in the last = 10, I do or keep control of a few things that statistics say will reduce = my chances of accidents. ( no I do not wear a helmet - study the stats = ) 1 - never drink at all of alcohol and drive. 2- Tires are most = suseptable to cause an accident in the 1st 100 miles and as they = approach baldness. 3- Always wear eye protection (duh) 4- Keep driving = within reasonable speeds on unknown roads. You do this and this takes = away like 80% of the causes of motorcycle accidents. Sooooooooooooo..... Stats combined from a couple web pages say that deaths in small = aircraft especially home builts may be as high as 50% caused by one = thing - the stall spin. =20 My question is.... From you experienced pilots - Do you believe the = Dragonfly literature, that is impossible for it to enter into a stall = spin scenario? Is the porpoising less dangerous and more easily = recovered from with engine power? = http://www.slipstreamind.com/dragonfly_faqs.htm Also in reading maybe only a 1/4 of the FAA accident descriptions on the = KR that Langford has wonderfully made available (thank you) on the = KRnet site http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/KRaccidents.doc it is = obvious there is a design problem with the elevator / cable / rudder = system, and I would encourage all of you to pull your inspection plates = and take a look at them if you haven't in a while.=20 I know when I took my intro flight in a Cessna 150 and the trainer let = me taxi around awhile getting use to steering with the brakes and or = rudder, it took about 10 seconds to say to myself that this is a real = screwed up design. ( my opinion of course) What I am saying is I = believe there probably are dead people out there due to over stressing = cables and connections over time from this design. Let the tomatoes fly Safe Flying to ya! Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. Planning to build KR2S or Dragonfly? lmcgee@maqs.net=20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:30:35 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Hightower To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>kr2 handling characteristics Message-ID: <20031030023035.51975.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 Is a KR2 okay for a low time pilot? --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney SpearsFrom crainey1@cfl.rr.com Wed Oct 29 20:45:25 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-04-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.134] helo=ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1AF4gW-0001zu-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:45:24 -0800 Received: from Beverly (5.70.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.70.5]) by ms-smtp-04.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id h9U4nph7006620 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:49:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001e01c39ea1$4068f750$05462141@Beverly> From: "Colin" To: "KR builders and pilots" References: <20031030023035.51975.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: KR>kr2 handling characteristics Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:49:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Raymond contact me offline. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sanford, Florida FLY SAFE!!!!From brigadier192003@yahoo.com Wed Oct 29 23:10:13 2003 Received: from web20504.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.226.139]) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AF6wf-0003Ua-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:10:13 -0800 Message-ID: <20031030071443.62807.qmail@web20504.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.170.143.151] by web20504.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:14:43 PST Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:14:43 -0800 (PST) From: gerald locker Subject: Re: KR>my web site To: KR builders and pilots In-Reply-To: <002801c39e60$737ce5c0$9696dccb@StationW2k04> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: --- Phillip Matheson wrote: > > Barry > If John Martindale is on line, he put a balance just > behind his seat, it is > similar the Mark Langfords set up only closer to the > front. > > Aub Coote of Geelong has a spring loaded trim on his > KR that works well, no > weight at the rear at all. > > Reg Brody at Holbrook in Southern NSW( I looked at > his yesterday, has a > Bungee cord tension on his, that also seem s to work > well, > > The spring loaded trim drawing is the one I mailed > to Mark Langford some > time back. I still may have a spare copy Good Morning, Could you, or someone out there tell me the best way to actually weigh the Kr-2 to find the CG. I would appreciate hearing from someone. We just bought an 80% finished KR-1 and a completed KR-2 but there is no record of any CG measurements taken, nor how it is done. Thanks, Gerald Locker > > > Phillip Matheson > matheson@dodo.com.au > Australia > VH PKR > See our engines and kits at. > http://www.vw-engines.com/ > http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ > See my KR at Mark Jones web > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barry Kruyssen" > To: "KR builders and pilots" > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 11:27 AM > Subject: Re: KR>my web site > > > > John Monday as asked to very question I was about > to ask. > > I already have a CofG problem and have added lead > to my front engine mount > > to correct. > > Puting more weight that far back is really going > to cost me in weight. > > > > Are there other ways to get the same result? > > Spring tention on the upper cable? or on both with > a bias to the top > cable? > > Replace the cables with a push/pull rod and put > the counter weight on the > > foreward pivot point of the rod (rear spar)? > > > > On another note: > > This is by far the best email list I've been part > of. > > The information is great, not to much bull > .......dust. > > Thanks to all who contribute to this list. > > > > The more I read, the more I learn and then I > realise, the less I know! > :-) > > > > Thanks > > Barry Kruyssen > > kr2@BigPond.com > > > > AUF Registered 19-3873 http://users.tpg.com.au/barryk/kr2.htm > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "roger mitchell" > > To: "KR builders and pilots" > > Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 10:10 AM > > Subject: Re: KR>my web site > > > > > > bear in mind the farther forward you can place the > weight ,the more > > effective per oz. it will be.on the stab. also a > little wit of weigth 10 > ft. > > aft of your C.G. has a large effect > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: JSMONDAY@aol.com > > To: krnet@mylist.net > > Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 5:55 PM > > Subject: Re: KR>my web site > > > > > > I would be curious to see if anyone has plans > for the extended elevator > > for > > counter weight. I have heard people wanting to > extend the h/s 6" on > > either > > side for better pitch control (when they are > heavier!) Can I add on to > > the end > > of my elevator 6" on each side and add counter > weight.. should it be the > > full > > length (deepth) or the horizontal stabilizer??? > > > > Thanks, > > John Monday > > KR2S > > Laguna Beach, CA > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:50:09 +1000 From: Gavin Donohoe To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <002301c39ecb$3b818700$7e4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 8 Well I guess all of you have nothing holding your KR's together other than epoxy!!!!! I thought this list was to help people like myself who are all alone out here with no local help. You know I really don't have the information in my instruction book or the plans. Why doesn't someone tell me what weight glass you have used and where you get the information ? it's ALMOST AS IF I've BEEN BLACKLISTED this isn't really such a silly question is it compared to some I've read on here. Gav --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 22/10/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:51:01 +1000 From: Gavin Donohoe To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>(no subject) Message-ID: <002c01c39ecb$547c7c60$7e4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 9 Guess I'll just call RR Gav --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 22/10/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:08:50 +0800 From: "Philip Maley" To: "'KR builders and pilots'" Subject: RE: KR>(no subject) Message-ID: <001a01c39ecd$d4e668a0$0301a8c0@wotech.net> In-Reply-To: <002c01c39ecb$547c7c60$7e4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Gavin I guess there are so many answers that none will be exactly correct. In fact my instructions don't even mention glass - the orignal design used Dynel fabric. Amazing how many people are not building to the plans these days! :-) You will probably find all you need by searching the archives at: http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp and http://www.escribe.com/aviation/krnet/ (two different locations, I don't know which one is "official". Kind regards Phil Maley Perth Australia -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+phil=wotech.com.au@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+phil=wotech.com.au@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Gavin Donohoe Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 5:51 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR>(no subject) Guess I'll just call RR Gav --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 22/10/2003 _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:02:45 +1100 From: "Phil Matheson" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>New Addition to the KR Family Message-ID: <004401c39ed3$7e7cc4e0$7e96dccb@Office> References: <20031029222656.94904.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Well done Give him a set of KR plans for a present Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( reserved) 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 06:32:52 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <3FA0F6E4.00000C.03924@Computer> References: <002301c39ecb$3b818700$7e4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 12 RE: I thought this list was to help people like myself who are all alo= ne out here with no local help.=0D =0D Gavin,=0D =0D You are right, this is your only hope. I looked for the answer to your question in AS and Wickes. I found an Email address of pilot@beegroup.co= m and my request to them was returned, address not known. There ain't no black list, we are all just busy building our planes and you have asked a question for which we may not have a definitive answer.=0D =0D Be thankful, when I built my first, I was all alone and had no KR Net. I= am building now and can't tell you what glass to use. I have tried two kind= s and cannot remember what they are, but it seems that the best one, althou= gh, maybe a little heavy, is the one sold for the Long EZ. If I remember correctly, it is 5.5 oz bid glass.=0D =0D I was going to look in my plans for you, but it is not in yours, I guess = it won't be in mine either.=0D =0D It also is difficult to estimate the amount of glass you would use and wh= at kind to use and how much resin to use, because there are so many variable= s.=20 What if you bought all pre-molded parts and were using wing skins, how mu= ch and what kind would you need. People use all different kinds of resin, w= e are using AeroPoxy, but will probably switch to West Systems for the cowl= ing mold, but if I bought a cowling that would fit, I would not need any of t= hat stuff.=0D =0D Also, you will want to only but what you will need in the next 6 months o= r so, because you want your resin to always be fresh.=0D =0D Netters, how about some suggestions for glass type and weight and what re= sin you like? Maybe some pros and cons to go along with it. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From GAVINANDLOUISE@bigpond.com Thu Oct 30 03:39:35 2003 Received: from mta02bw.bigpond.com ([144.135.24.138]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AFB9L-0004k9-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 03:39:35 -0800 Received: from oemcomputer ([144.135.24.78]) by mta02bw.email.bigpond.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.14 (built Mar 18 2003)) with SMTP id <0HNK0010VJ7MY3@mta02bw.email.bigpond.com> for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:43:07 +1000 (EST) Received: from bph-d2-p-77-126.tmns.net.au ([144.134.77.126]) by bwmam04.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_3_2d 29/19589438); Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:42:58 +0000 Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:46:32 +1000 From: Gavin Donohoe Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass To: KR builders and pilots Message-id: <007a01c39edb$777b46a0$7e4d8690@oemcomputer> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal References: <002301c39ecb$3b818700$7e4d8690@oemcomputer> <3FA0F6E4.00000C.03924@Computer> X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I wasn't serious about the black list stuff, it just seems silly to me that all of you are all at work glassing etc and no one can tell me if I should use 5oz or 100oz glass. And as it's no use asking the local fibreglass shop because he's running scared by liability where aircraft are involved, yes this list is our only hope. Remember some of us don't know Jack SH--T about fibreglass. Gav ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:32 PM Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass RE: I thought this list was to help people like myself who are all alone out here with no local help. Gavin, You are right, this is your only hope. I looked for the answer to your question in AS and Wickes. I found an Email address of pilot@beegroup.com and my request to them was returned, address not known. There ain't no black list, we are all just busy building our planes and you have asked a question for which we may not have a definitive answer. Be thankful, when I built my first, I was all alone and had no KR Net. I am building now and can't tell you what glass to use. I have tried two kinds and cannot remember what they are, but it seems that the best one, although, maybe a little heavy, is the one sold for the Long EZ. If I remember correctly, it is 5.5 oz bid glass. I was going to look in my plans for you, but it is not in yours, I guess it won't be in mine either. It also is difficult to estimate the amount of glass you would use and what kind to use and how much resin to use, because there are so many variables. What if you bought all pre-molded parts and were using wing skins, how much and what kind would you need. People use all different kinds of resin, we are using AeroPoxy, but will probably switch to West Systems for the cowling mold, but if I bought a cowling that would fit, I would not need any of that stuff. Also, you will want to only but what you will need in the next 6 months or so, because you want your resin to always be fresh. Netters, how about some suggestions for glass type and weight and what resin you like? Maybe some pros and cons to go along with it. N64KR Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 22/10/2003 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:23:02 -0800 (PST) From: F Ross To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <20031030122302.93439.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <007a01c39edb$777b46a0$7e4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 Gavin, Remember that most KR builders are people who have to choose between earning a paycheck, working on the KR, spending time with the spouse (we have women building KRs, too) and kids (or grandkids), going flying or checking the e-mail from KRnet. You won't quickly get answers to things you can figure out for yourself or find by browsing through a few books in the library. Some resources you may find helpful: Books: Composite Construction by Jack Lambie Kitplane Construction by Ronald J. Wanttaja Custom Built Sport Aircraft Handbook and EAA Aircraft Building Techniques WOOD both available from EAA Aviation Center, Oshkosh, WI 54903-3086 That said, and knowing how hard it is to contact Jeanette Rand, a quick check of my 2002 Wicks catalog, page 18 lists "KR Fiberglass Lightweight boat or tooling cloth in plain weave. 50" width, 5.85 OZ per sq yd. As used on the KR aircraft. Threads per inch 18 length X 18 width." A catalog from Wicks is a good resource. You will also find a GOLDMINE of information on Mark Langford's site. Links to so many great sites it boogles what few gray cells I have left. Copy everything and read it all. I recommend copying it because it is too extensive to sit there and read and it is great for those times when you don't have anything else to do. Good luck, Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk England UK alamokr2@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:28:12 -0800 (PST) From: F Ross To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>kr2 handling characteristics Message-ID: <20031030122812.51868.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031030023035.51975.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 --- Raymond Hightower wrote: > Is a KR2 okay for a low time pilot? No ===== Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England UK alamokr2@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 06:32:45 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031030063245.00825be0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <20031030122302.93439.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> References: <007a01c39edb$777b46a0$7e4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 Wicks catalog, >page 18 lists "KR Fiberglass Lightweight boat or >tooling cloth in plain weave. 50" width, 5.85 OZ per >sq yd. As used on the KR aircraft. Threads per inch 18 >length X 18 width." >A catalog from Wicks is a good resource. >Frank Ross, +=====================+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Wick's also has an "on-line" catalog or an "800" number you can call to order. When I started my project I just ASSUMED that the KR cloth in Wick's catalog was the correct glass. I sure hope my wings don't fall off. The wings will take more glass then the area figures out to be as you have to cut the glass at a 45 degree angle so the glass weave runs at an angle (as pictured in the plans. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:54:06 -0800 (PST) From: F Ross To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>KR vrs Dragonfly - safety Message-ID: <20031030125406.58684.qmail@web40909.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <000e01c39e81$387cd220$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 --- Steve and Lori McGee wrote: > No I am currently not a pilot, but want to be and > want to be an old pilot. Please bear with me and > read carefully before throwing stones and kicking me > off the site. Steve, First the disclaimer: I have not flown or built either a KR or Dragonfly. I am still a low time pilot and that doesn't look likely to change over the next three years. I have followed the KRnet and Dragonfly net for a few years and gone to many KR Gatherings and Canard fly-ins, which I highly recommend. I've ridden motorcycles for well over 30 years. Apples and oranges. As a biker, you know that many new bikers look for a bike with a low seat so they can put their feet on the ground. And you know how silly that is after you ride for awhile. Same with aviation. We learn things early on that make some of our initial concerns seem pretty silly. The problems you mention are not the ones to worry about. The Dragonfly is MUCH more comfortable than the KR. I like them both a LOT, but facts are facts. Do whatever you have to to get a ride in each plane and in any others you might want to build. Get as much flying experience as you can before you get started on building your dream plane. Flyers should not try to factor out things like stalls and spins, they should learn how to FLY THE AIRPLANE. That means knowing at all times what your plane is doing and why. Those stall-spin accidents you read about are a result of the pilot forgetting to FLY THE AIRPLANE at a really critical time, like when the engine quits or something equally distracting. Enjoy your flying and find an instructor who will help you learn to enjoy stalls and spins. Get a ride in a KR and a Dragonfly and decide for yourself. Good luck, ===== Frank Ross, EAA Chapter 35, San Geronimo, TX RAF Lakenheath, Suffolk, England UK alamokr2@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:05:49 -0600 From: "JIM VANCE" To: "krnet" Subject: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <005101c39ee8$cf64d900$0300a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 17 Aircraft Spruce has a # 7533 bi-directional glass with the following = specifications: 5.85 oz/square yard, thread count =3D 18 x 18, breaking strength 250 = x 250 pounds/inch, thickness =3D .009 inches. The description ends with = the statement "as used on KR aircraft". =20 =20 Their part number is 7533-60, and it costs $5.75 per lineal yard with a = 60 inch roll width. Jim Vance = Vance@ClaflinWildcats.comFrom rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com Thu Oct 30 06:18:39 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-02-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.132] helo=ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1AFDdH-0005rw-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 06:18:39 -0800 Received: from zippersystems (153-25.201-68.swfla.rr.com [68.201.25.153]) by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id h9UEN4KD025708 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:23:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KR Builders and Flyers" Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:23:04 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal Subject: KR>Fiberglass X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com, KR builders and pilots List-Id: KR builders and pilots List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: While we're on the subject (again), I'll ask one. If the original design was OK in dynel, which is pretty springy, is it really necessary to run glass at 45 degrees? Or do we just do it out of habit? Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:37:27 -0600 From: "Bob Stone" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: Re: KR>kr2 handling characteristics Message-ID: <001e01c39ef3$577a9a00$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> References: <20031030023035.51975.qmail@web40514.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 It's OK for a low time pilot to attempt flying a KR but only if he has a death wish. If you were trained on a Cessna l50 or 152 as most of us were, this is a very forgiving low performance aircraft. The KR's on the other hand are a high performance aircraft and not forgiving at all. Find someone who ownes a 2 place KR-2 and learn to fly it with them even if you have to pay for it. This will be money well spent. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, TX rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Hightower" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:30 PM Subject: KR>kr2 handling characteristics > Is a KR2 okay for a low time pilot? > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears_______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 9:55:08 -0500 From: To: KR builders and pilots Subject: Re: KR>Fiberglass Message-ID: <20031030145508.MMTD1849.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 wicks aircraft supply lists a kr glass in its list os glasses and coverings. google will give you the address. I think it' www.wicksaircraft.com. they will send you a catalogue also for asking. good reference--I've had good results with them since the 1970s--were just a few miles from the farm. > > From: Gavin Donohoe > Date: 2003/10/30 Thu AM 04:50:09 EST > To: KR builders and pilots > Subject: KR>Fiberglass > > Well I guess all of you have nothing holding your KR's together other than epoxy!!!!! I thought this list was to help people like myself who are all alone out here with no local help. > You know I really don't have the information in my instruction book or the plans. Why doesn't someone tell me what weight glass you have used and where you get the information ? it's ALMOST AS IF I've BEEN BLACKLISTED this isn't really such a silly question is it compared to some I've read on here. > > Gav > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.530 / Virus Database: 325 - Release Date: 22/10/2003 > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 204, Issue 1 *************************************