From: krnet-bounces+markl=hiwaay.net@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 225, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. (no subject) (larry flesner) 2. Re: (no subject) (Mark Jones) 3. Re: Brian Kraut's KR Name (Scott Cable) 4. The diehl gear. (Steve and Lori McGee) 5. Larry Flesner !! (Steve and Lori McGee) 6. Re: The diehl gear. (Rick Wilson) 7. Dec 17 pin, patch, decal (larry flesner) 8. Pinholes and fillers (William Clapp) 9. Current weight and progress (William Clapp) 10. Re: Pinholes and fillers (Steven Eberhart) 11. lap belt support (Colin) 12. Re: lap belt support (Mac McConnell-Wood) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:30:10 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>(no subject) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031119173010.00804780@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <25416166.1069215164980.JavaMail.root@louie.psp.pas.earthli nk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 >I am still looking for a good name for the bird. If an appropriate >name popps into anyone's head when you look at the pictures please let me know. My wife is still calling it "The Mistress". (Brian) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ How about "Undercover Lover" !!! :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:58:13 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>(no subject) Message-ID: <006801c3aef8$feabcbe0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20031119173010.00804780@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 With that long nose and speed she will be traveling. She should be nothing but a streak in the sky. I propose "The Streaker" Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 5:30 PM Subject: KR>(no subject) > > >I am still looking for a good name for the bird. If an appropriate > >name > popps into anyone's head when you look at the pictures please let me > know. My wife is still calling it "The Mistress". > (Brian) > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > How about "Undercover Lover" !!! :-) > > Larry Flesner > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:43:02 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Brian Kraut's KR Name Message-ID: <20031120004302.88269.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <006801c3aef8$feabcbe0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 How about because you have the US color theme, and she's just a little bird, I purpose you name her "Little Miss" (like in Bicentenial Man). +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ --- Mark Jones wrote: > With that long nose and speed she will be traveling. > She should be nothing but a streak in the sky. I propose "The Streaker" +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > >I am still looking for a good name for the bird. > If an appropriate name > > popps into anyone's head when you look at the > pictures please let me know. > > My wife is still calling it "The Mistress". > > (Brian) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > How about "Undercover Lover" !!! :-) > > > > Larry Flesner ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:04:21 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Subject: KR>The diehl gear. Message-ID: <00a001c3af02$3b24f8e0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Can someone please give me the angle that the leg support is welded from = the spar? Specify whether it is from horizontal (the spar) or vertical = please ( straight down). Thank you. Safe Flying to ya! Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net=20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 19:07:23 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Subject: KR>Larry Flesner !! Message-ID: <00ad01c3af02$a814d9c0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 You here? Contact me off line please - thank you. Safe Flying to ya! Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net=20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:09:17 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wilson To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>The diehl gear. Message-ID: <20031120010917.12890.qmail@web21207.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <00a001c3af02$3b24f8e0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 Steve, The bracket is 45 degrees from either surface. I built mine at 48 degrees from the top surface (from horizontal because of the extra weight of the 0200. I figured that would give it about the right amount of preload for my application. I asked Dan Diehl and was told that they were at 45 degrees. Hope this helps, Rick Wilson. --- Steve and Lori McGee wrote: > Can someone please give me the angle that the leg > support is welded from the spar? Specify whether it > is from horizontal (the spar) or vertical please ( > straight down). Thank you. > > Safe Flying to ya! > Steve McGee > Endeavor Wi. > Building a KR2S widened. > lmcgee@maqs.net > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:43:01 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>Dec 17 pin, patch, decal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031119204301.007f79d0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <25416166.1069215164980.JavaMail.root@louie.psp.pas.earthli nk.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 Netters, Check out the following web address: http://barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=19595 Yes, I know, KR net rules say ads only on Friday but it's close and this only happens every 100 years. :-) Besides, if I don't do it now I'll forget about it. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:58:52 -0500 From: "William Clapp" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Pinholes and fillers Message-ID: <002301c3af12$3e1d8520$8dfcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 8 Ive read on the net that some suggest not to use a polyester type filler = such as USC "Icing" over the fiberglass. I have been using icing and = other fillers over metal and glass with no problems as of yet. I = normally use an epoxy primer or at least a 2K primer for the final = touches before paint. Has anybody had a bad experience with the = polyesters on fiberglass or carbon? My forward deck is a layer of = carbon on the top surface but has up to 1/8" filler in spots to get the = contour right for the canopy area. It would be nice to make a mold and = then a perfect deck but too much time and money to do for a little = difference in results. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:08:05 -0500 From: "William Clapp" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Current weight and progress Message-ID: <003501c3af13$87114040$8dfcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 As of today - fuselage on gear - all brakes and controls installed - = horizontal and elevator and trim finished - rudder finished - seat = finished - main and rear spar finished - Panel finish but lacking COMM = and TRANS. Canopy and forward deck finished - front tank finished - = cowling in progress - firewall ready to install (waiting on engine mount = - engine 50% built up (Corvair). The plane minus engine weighs in at = 186 lbs so far. I still have to build stub wings (have templates = made) and turtledeck. Wiring will become one of the next issues to deal = with - probably a winter project. I hope to have stub wing and = turtledeck finished by new year. My goal is to have a finished weight = of 600lbs. If the engine and all accesories are about 250 that only = leaves me with 160 lbs left to play with for the rest - We shall = see..... Happy Building Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:44:46 -0600 From: Steven Eberhart To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Pinholes and fillers Message-ID: <3FBC38AE.80203@newtech.com> References: <002301c3af12$3e1d8520$8dfcd241@clapp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Hi William, I would suggest that you do a few tests. I would suggest making a lay-up of two layers of BID large enough so you can cut four strips from it, each 1" x 6". The easiest way to do this is use Mark Langford's technique of putting the glass and epoxy between Visqueen layers and squeegee the resin into the cloth. After cured sand one side with 80 grit sandpaper. Make a sandwich out of two of the strips with the "Icing" between the strips. Only apply it along 4" or so of the strips so you will have a surface to grip to. After cure, try pulling the two strips apart. Make your own decision based on your adhesion tests. Try the same test with Poly Fiber's Smooth Prime between the two strips. I am betting the Smooth Prime test coupon will win hands down. This should give you the answers you are looking for. Steve Eberhart William Clapp wrote: > Ive read on the net that some suggest not to use a polyester type filler such as USC "Icing" over the fiberglass. I have been using icing and other fillers over metal and glass with no problems as of yet. I normally use an epoxy primer or at least a 2K primer for the final touches before paint. Has anybody had a bad experience with the polyesters on fiberglass or carbon? My forward deck is a layer of carbon on the top surface but has up to 1/8" filler in spots to get the contour right for the canopy area. It would be nice to make a mold and then a perfect deck but too much time and money to do for a little difference in results. Bill > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:19:46 -0500 From: "Colin" To: Subject: KR>lap belt support Message-ID: <003901c3af1d$89b2e1a0$f2452141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 Netters, I am looking for commentary critique of my mounting of the lap belts in = our KR. It is shown on our site and Dan Heath expressed a valid concern = about the mounting. I would appreciate any commentary critique of this = mounting and potential improvements. Those who have not gotten to this = pint yet here is your chance to learn before doing, to save you time. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html Sanford, Florida KR Gathering 2004-see ya in Mt VernonFrom DanRH@alltel.net Thu Nov 20 03:13:47 2003 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AMmkt-00022q-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:13:47 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.136]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20031120111916.GKAY15697.mta02-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 05:19:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3FBCA335.000018.02292@Computer> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:19:17 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <003501c3af13$87114040$8dfcd241@clapp> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Current weight and progress Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Bill,=0D =0D Your wings will eat up at least 120 or that 160. Outboard will be 40+ ea= ch. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet=0D Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 10:21:41 PM=0D To: KR builders and pilots=0D Subject: KR>Current weight and progress=0D =0D As of today - fuselage on gear - all brakes and controls installed - horizontal and elevator and trim finished - rudder finished - seat finish= ed - main and rear spar finished - Panel finish but lacking COMM and TRANS. Canopy and forward deck finished - front tank finished - cowling in progr= ess - firewall ready to install (waiting on engine mount - engine 50% built u= p (Corvair). The plane minus engine weighs in at 186 lbs so far. I still ha= ve to build stub wings (have templates made) and turtledeck. Wiring will bec= ome one of the next issues to deal with - probably a winter project. I hope t= o have stub wing and turtledeck finished by new year. My goal is to have a finished weight of 600lbs. If the engine and all accesories are about 250 that only leaves me with 160 lbs left to play with for the rest - We shal= l see..... Happy Building Bill=0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom s2cable1@yahoo.com Thu Nov 20 06:02:35 2003 Received: from web40803.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.78.180]) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AMpOF-0003Ij-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:02:35 -0800 Message-ID: <20031120140805.55026.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [130.76.64.17] by web40803.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:08:05 PST Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 06:08:05 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR>lap belt support To: KRnet In-Reply-To: <003901c3af1d$89b2e1a0$f2452141@Beverly> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Colin, The only thing that I would add is that I would echo Dan's concern about the mounting. I believe that the plans call for the lap belt mounts to be on the aft face of the rear spar. I recall seeing a KR accident photo sequence where the engine quit on takeoff, the plane stalled, dropped a wing and cart-wheeled after the right wingtip caught the ground. The last picture is the pilot reaching around and tossing the belts aside. The aircraft disintegrated around him, but he walked away. Why? Probably because the belts did their intended job and restrained the pilot in the structure, even while the structure was literally disintegrating around him. You have to ask yourself; Will the belt attachments that I made do their intended job of restraining myself and the passenger during a crash? Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of being able to do crash simulations / testing like in the automotive industry. While I was with my former employer (a Tier 1 automotive supplier), my office was on the other side of the wall from the sled lab. They had a pnuematic cylinder capable of a 60 G acceleration in the sled lab. Automotive seating systems are designed to restrain a crash dummy to 20 G's rearward in a test called FMVSS202, & 207/210. This federally mandated test simulates a rear end collision of about 25 mph (one of many mandated tests). Automotive seats are allowed to yield, but with no breakage of the welds, and must not allow the crash dummy to become unrestrained at any point of the simulation. This is a fairly tall order and is why most automotive seatbelt anchors are 10 mm diameter bolts. Seeing these test performed and looking at the results or aftermath was shall we say impressive? Really makes you wonder about getting in a car and driving in rush-hour traffic, knowing some idiot is on a cellphone, not paying attention, and goes plowing into the back of your car at 60 MPH.... OK, I'll get off of my soapbox now! Depending upon the seat that you are building, the belt attachment zone (for automotiveseating)is 45 degrees from "H"-point. It appears that you may be near or over the edge of the 45 degree attachment zone. Again depending upon where your H-point ends up as a result of your seat cushion design. Where would I attach my lapbelt anchors? Somewhere on the aft face of the rear spar, with the belt attachment bolts going through the rear spar. Wick's and others sell books on small aircraft crashworthness, which I think might be a big help for you in deciding for yourself on what to do. --- Colin wrote: > Netters, > I am looking for commentary critique of my mounting > of the lap belts in our KR. It is shown on our site > and Dan Heath expressed a valid concern about the > mounting. I would appreciate any commentary critique > of this mounting and potential improvements. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:15:07 -0000 From: "Mac McConnell-Wood" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>lap belt support Message-ID: <015b01c3af81$7924c240$5bc8403e@tinypc> References: <20031120140805.55026.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cable" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:08 PM Subject: Re: KR>lap belt support Colin,-My seat belt attachment is a 1/4" eye bolt going thro the top rear spar cap,(eye fwd) reinforced by a 1/2" 20 gauge steel strap fitted round the spar. My inspector was concerned about the tendancy for the bolt to pull through the top of the spar cap.She survived 2 heavy shunts. Send you a pic if you're interested. Regards Mac UK >. > --- Colin wrote: > > Netters, > > I am looking for commentary critique of my mounting > > of the lap belts in our KR. It is shown on our site > > and Dan Heath expressed a valid concern about the > > mounting. I would appreciate any commentary critique > > of this mounting and potential improvements. > > > ===== > Scott Cable > KR-2S # 735 > Wright City, MO > s2cable1@yahoo.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 225, Issue 1 *************************************