From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:22 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 244, Issue 2 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. TurtleDeck Weight Question (Scott Cable) 2. RE: rain and the kr (Rick Wilson) 3. Re: TurtleDeck Weight Question (Ron Eason) 4. Vortex Generators (Mark Youkey) 5. Re: Vortex Generators (Dan Heath) 6. IT PASSED (larry flesner) 7. Re: IT PASSED--YEA the Crowd Goes WILD!!! (Scott Cable) 8. Re: TurtleDeck Weight Question (Joseph H Horton) 9. Re: IT PASSED (Mark Jones) 10. Re: Vortex Generators (Mark Youkey) 11. Re: TurtleDeck Weight Question (Joseph H Horton) 12. Re: Vortex Generators (Rick Wilson) 13. Re: IT PASSED (Mike Turner) 14. Re: IT PASSED (Dean Cooper) 15. Co-Cured-Co-Bonded, Hat Stiffened TurtleDeck (Scott Cable) 16. Re: IT PASSED (Joseph H Horton) 17. Re: Co-Cured-Co-Bonded, Hat Stiffened TurtleDeck (Dan Heath) 18. Re: Co-Cured-Co-Bonded, Hat Stiffened TurtleDeck (Scott Cable) 19. Re: questions - wafs / rims (Brian Kraut) 20. Re: questions - wafs / rims (Rick Wilson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: KR>TurtleDeck Weight Question Message-ID: <20031209225530.49435.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031208172648.19618.qmail@web40806.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 Netters: Does anyone have a weight of a Rand Robinson or other Turtledeck and could weigh it? ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:13:45 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wilson To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR>rain and the kr Message-ID: <20031209231345.92279.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 Alex, Vortex generators are generally not that effective except when used on canard airplanes. Rick Wilson. --- "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" wrote: > They are called Vortex generator, they are the > rain/bugs contamination fix. > I had asked before KR-netters opinion about to use > them on KR, but it seems > no body know about. Generally the Quickie and > Dragonfly owners who have installed them > reporting not only fixing bugs/rain contamination > fixing but as well lowering the stall speed. > > BR, > Alex Birca, > Moldova > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On > Behalf Of Ross Youngblood > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:51 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR>rain and the kr > > > Good thing you don't live in Oregon. > > I've seen some paint damage on spam cans out here > due to flying in severe rain. I haven't flown my KR > out here, but haven't heard from local EAA ers not > to fly in the rain generally. > > Their was a canard aircraft which had some rain > issues > and I think I heard some similar comments from a > Long-EZ > pilot who had some canard fix. I'm open to hearing > from netters on this, but haven't been "warned" off > of flying when the wing gets wet. > > I think this is one of those "laminar flow" type > concerns > and at the moment, I don't even recall if the KR > airflow > RAF-46 (I think) was a laminar flow airfoil. It's > older > so I would bet it is not laminar flow... but I'm a > hose > head, and often wrong. > > -- Ross > > -> each time it drizzles i don't fly i cant find any > information on the > -> effects > > of lite rain other then higher stick pressers with > the Kr. it seams that > > most wood propped airplanes don't fly anyway do to > damage with or > > without > > urethane edge is what i understand. i just like > to know if IM caught in a shower > > will it do damage to the aircraft i always wipe it > down if it gets wet or > > washing i also avoid the hinge points (controls) > mac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > n1055a flying > > flymaca711689@aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > -- > ___________________________________________________ > Check out the latest SMS services @ > http://www.operamail.com, which allows you to send > SMS through your mailbox. > > Powered by Outblaze > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:23:05 -0600 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>TurtleDeck Weight Question Message-ID: <006f01c3beab$6603dc80$6501a8c0@Administration> References: <20031209225530.49435.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Scott, I have a early copy of the RR turtle deck and it weighs 8.5 lbs. with1/8" [+or -] skin finished ready for paint. Krron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cable" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 4:55 PM Subject: KR>TurtleDeck Weight Question > Netters: > Does anyone have a weight of a Rand Robinson or other Turtledeck and > could weigh it? > > > ===== > Scott Cable > KR-2S # 735 > Wright City, MO > s2cable1@yahoo.com > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:26:35 -0600 From: "Mark Youkey" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Vortex Generators Message-ID: <036201c3beab$e3387940$6400a8c0@blah> References: <20031209231345.92279.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Rick, Perhaps you can explain the vortex generator to me. We have them on the E-3, which is a modified Boeing 707. I don't see how they would help with bugs or rain, as they are on the top of the wing, 3/4 of the way back from the leading edge, and outboard of the elevators. I'm not sure what they do (besides generate a vortex), and I just figured they are a "big plane" thing, and I shouldn't mess with them on a KR. But obviously they do something, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Thanks, Mark Youkey myoukey@cox.net Oklahoma City ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Wilson" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 5:13 PM Subject: RE: KR>rain and the kr > Alex, Vortex generators are generally not that > effective except when used on canard airplanes. Rick > Wilson. > --- "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" > wrote: > > They are called Vortex generator, they are the > > rain/bugs contamination fix. > > I had asked before KR-netters opinion about to use > > them on KR, but it seems > > no body know about. Generally the Quickie and > > Dragonfly owners who have installed them > > reporting not only fixing bugs/rain contamination > > fixing but as well lowering the stall speed. > > > > BR, > > Alex Birca, > > Moldova > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On > > Behalf Of Ross Youngblood > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:51 PM > > To: KRnet > > Subject: Re: KR>rain and the kr > > > > > > Good thing you don't live in Oregon. > > > > I've seen some paint damage on spam cans out here > > due to flying in severe rain. I haven't flown my KR > > out here, but haven't heard from local EAA ers not > > to fly in the rain generally. > > > > Their was a canard aircraft which had some rain > > issues > > and I think I heard some similar comments from a > > Long-EZ > > pilot who had some canard fix. I'm open to hearing > > from netters on this, but haven't been "warned" off > > of flying when the wing gets wet. > > > > I think this is one of those "laminar flow" type > > concerns > > and at the moment, I don't even recall if the KR > > airflow > > RAF-46 (I think) was a laminar flow airfoil. It's > > older > > so I would bet it is not laminar flow... but I'm a > > hose > > head, and often wrong. > > > > -- Ross > > > > -> each time it drizzles i don't fly i cant find any > > information on the > > -> effects > > > of lite rain other then higher stick pressers with > > the Kr. it seams that > > > most wood propped airplanes don't fly anyway do to > > damage with or > > > without > > > urethane edge is what i understand. i just like > > to know if IM caught in a shower > > > will it do damage to the aircraft i always wipe it > > down if it gets wet or > > > washing i also avoid the hinge points (controls) > > mac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > n1055a flying > > > flymaca711689@aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at > > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > -- > > ___________________________________________________ > > Check out the latest SMS services @ > > http://www.operamail.com, which allows you to send > > SMS through your mailbox. > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > ===== > Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:49:25 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Vortex Generators Message-ID: <3FD65F85.00002D.02580@Computer> References: <036201c3beab$e3387940$6400a8c0@blah> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 Long EZ owners started using them on the canard because it is a laminar f= low wing that looses lift when it gets contaminated with anything. Dirt, rai= n, bugs, anything. A friend and EZ owner was barely able to keep his nose u= p long enough to get it on the ground once, so he installed them and they w= ork =0D =0D The Vortex Generators, turn a laminar flow wing into a turbulent flow win= g, such as is the RAF-48, commonly used on the KR. If you are using a turbulent flow wing, I don't believe that there would be any reason for using these.=0D =0D I think that the subject came up because the new wing is a type of Lamina= r Flow wing. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From larry2@socal.rr.com Tue Dec 09 16:20:15 2003 Received: from ms-smtp-03-qfe0.socal.rr.com ([66.75.162.135] helo=ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1ATs5P-0006vt-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:20:15 -0800 Received: from SteveCanyon.socal.rr.com (cpe-66-75-117-49.socal.rr.com [66.75.117.49]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id hBA08NF4012551 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:08:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20031209155731.02511fa0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> X-Sender: larry2@pop-server.socal.rr.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:08:15 -0800 To: KRnet From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR>Vortex Generators In-Reply-To: <036201c3beab$e3387940$6400a8c0@blah> References: <20031209231345.92279.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: >Perhaps you can explain the vortex generator to me. Vortex generators prevent separation of the airflow from the wing surface by creating turbulent flow. It will help in reducing the effective stall speed for most aircraft because they are placed in the area in front of ailerons and flaps to guarantee that the airflow will not separate prior to hitting those surfaces. The stall becomes more recoverable. With the KR2's long aileron and a wing designed to stall at the tips first, they only create more drag without impacting stall speeds. {You will recognize the loss of lift on a KR2 long before you will be thrown into a spin.} Anything that creates turbulent flow creates drag (bad, bad, bad when you want to go fast with a small engine). Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:03:42 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>IT PASSED Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20031209180342.0084dbf0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <006d01c3bdfb$03dc5c40$1202a8c0@basement> References: <4b.379b785e.2d06254f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 Netters, My KR passed it final inspection today with only 4 minor things to do / correct. 1. label my outside canopy latch handle for "open" and "closed". That item is done. 2. A slight re-routing of my fuel line from the gascolator to the carb. I plan to relocate my gascolator a few inches to take care of that item. Estimated time 1 hour. 3. Install a stretched spring in my crankcase vent line to the air/oil separator to keep it from colapsing. Estimated time 10 minutes. 4. Re-safety my prop bolts with .040 wire instead of the .032 I had used. He indicated he had seen the lighter wire fail but never the .040. Estimated time 30 minutes. THEN IT IS READY TO FLY!!! The aircraft inspection took about 30 minutes and the paperwork was maybe 1.5 hours. The inspector's only comment was " you're going to have a nice airplane". I promised to stop in and see him on my way to visit Mark Langford when I get the time flown off. He was going to give me a 50 mile flight test area but I asked him to include one of my favorite airports at 54 miles. He said he would just make it 55 miles instead. What he looked for: - general workmanship - use of proper hardware and the correct use of that hardware. Bolts the right length, only steel locknuts in the engine compartment, turnbuckles safety wired, etc. - All required placards and all controls, switches, knobs, etc., labeled for operation. - He suggested I install a heat shield on the bottom end of my brake line to shield it from the heat of the brake. My line is nylon. He didn't write that one up but I have an easy fix in mind and will probably take care of that item before first flight. It will be a few days before I have time to finish correcting the items and the weather is forcasted to be bad for a few days so it will probably be at least the weekend before first flight. I'll keep you posted. Larry ( proud owner of a LEGAL KR2 ) Flesner Carterville, Illinois ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:21:26 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>IT PASSED--YEA the Crowd Goes WILD!!! Message-ID: <20031210002126.73913.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20031209180342.0084dbf0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 All Right Larry!!!! I'll bet it will be a hard next few nights... Airplane noises are now dominating your thoughts and conversation? That's GREAT NEWS!!!!! Wait till the weather's perfect, then go FLYING!!!! --- larry flesner wrote: > It will be a few days before I have time to finish > correcting the items > and the weather is forcasted to be bad for a few > days so it will > probably be at least the weekend before first > flight. I'll keep > you posted. > > Larry ( proud owner of a LEGAL KR2 ) Flesner > Carterville, Illinois > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:22:42 -0500 From: Joseph H Horton To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>TurtleDeck Weight Question Message-ID: <20031209.192243.-316917.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 Scott, It has been a few years now but I recall that my tu On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) Scott Cable writes: > Netters: > Does anyone have a weight of a Rand Robinson or other Turtledeck and > could weigh it? > > > ===== > Scott Cable > KR-2S # 735 > Wright City, MO > s2cable1@yahoo.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:28:57 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>IT PASSED Message-ID: <003801c3beb4$9a0c6480$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> References: <4b.379b785e.2d06254f@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20031209180342.0084dbf0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Congratulations Larry. Can't wait for that first flight report. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: KR>IT PASSED ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:28:06 -0600 From: "Mark Youkey" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Vortex Generators Message-ID: <037a01c3beb4$7b522e80$6400a8c0@blah> References: <20031209231345.92279.qmail@web21202.mail.yahoo.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031209155731.02511fa0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Larry & Dan, Thanks! Now I know, and it all makes sense to me now. I suppose that the only acceptable application on a fast KR would be a sort of deployable vortex generators that deploy when you drop the flaps, and retract in a "clean" configuration. That sounds like a lot of work....but it would sure be cool. Mark Youkey myoukey@cox.net Oklahoma City ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry severson" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:08 PM Subject: Re: KR>Vortex Generators > > >Perhaps you can explain the vortex generator to me. > > Vortex generators prevent separation of the airflow from the wing > surface by creating turbulent flow. It will help in reducing the > effective stall speed for most aircraft because they are placed in the > area in front of ailerons and flaps to guarantee that the airflow will > not separate prior to > hitting those surfaces. The stall becomes more recoverable. With the > KR2's long aileron and a wing designed to stall at the tips first, > they only create more drag without impacting stall speeds. {You will > recognize the loss of lift on a KR2 long before you will be thrown > into a spin.} Anything > that creates turbulent flow creates drag (bad, bad, bad when you want > to go > fast with a small engine). > > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:26:52 -0500 From: Joseph H Horton To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>TurtleDeck Weight Question Message-ID: <20031209.192652.-316917.1.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Scott, It has been a few years but I recall that my turtle deck from RR was around 9 lbs. This was for the 2S. Hpe this helps-- Joe Horton On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) Scott Cable writes: > Netters: > Does anyone have a weight of a Rand Robinson or other Turtledeck and > could weigh it? > > > ===== > Scott Cable > KR-2S # 735 > Wright City, MO > s2cable1@yahoo.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:35:31 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wilson To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Vortex Generators Message-ID: <20031210003531.75548.qmail@web21204.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <036201c3beab$e3387940$6400a8c0@blah> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 Mark, Actually I should have said that vortex generators are effective on swept wings, such as the vari-eze and longeze, velocity,etc. The airflow seperates from the top of the wing more on swept wings than on straight ones. Vortex generators are like small gates or dams that make the airflow stick closer to the surface for a longer portion of the wing surface. It makes the wing fly better at slower airspeeds. This is about the best I can do in general terms. You can read more about the subject on some of the canard aircraft sites. Rick Wilson. ps. That was my point, they don't help that much with bugs or rain. --- Mark Youkey wrote: > Rick, > > Perhaps you can explain the vortex generator to me. > We have them on the > E-3, which is a modified Boeing 707. I don't see > how they would help with > bugs or rain, as they are on the top of the wing, > 3/4 of the way back from > the leading edge, and outboard of the elevators. > > I'm not sure what they do (besides generate a > vortex), and I just figured > they are a "big plane" thing, and I shouldn't mess > with them on a KR. But > obviously they do something, otherwise they wouldn't > be there. > > Thanks, > Mark Youkey > myoukey@cox.net > Oklahoma City > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Wilson" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 5:13 PM > Subject: RE: KR>rain and the kr > > > > Alex, Vortex generators are generally not that > > effective except when used on canard airplanes. > Rick > > Wilson. > > --- "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" wrote: > > > They are called Vortex generator, they are the > > > rain/bugs contamination fix. > > > I had asked before KR-netters opinion about to > use > > > them on KR, but it seems > > > no body know about. Generally the Quickie and > > > Dragonfly owners who have installed them > > > reporting not only fixing bugs/rain > contamination > > > fixing but as well lowering the stall speed. > > > > > > BR, > > > Alex Birca, > > > Moldova > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] > > > On Behalf Of > Ross > > > Youngblood > > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:51 PM > > > To: KRnet > > > Subject: Re: KR>rain and the kr > > > > > > > > > Good thing you don't live in Oregon. > > > > > > I've seen some paint damage on spam cans out > here > > > due to flying in severe rain. I haven't flown > my KR > > > out here, but haven't heard from local EAA ers > not > > > to fly in the rain generally. > > > > > > Their was a canard aircraft which had some rain > > > issues > > > and I think I heard some similar comments from a > > > Long-EZ > > > pilot who had some canard fix. I'm open to > hearing > > > from netters on this, but haven't been "warned" > off > > > of flying when the wing gets wet. > > > > > > I think this is one of those "laminar flow" type > > > concerns > > > and at the moment, I don't even recall if the KR > > > airflow > > > RAF-46 (I think) was a laminar flow airfoil. > It's > > > older > > > so I would bet it is not laminar flow... but I'm > a > > > hose > > > head, and often wrong. > > > > > > -- Ross > > > > > > -> each time it drizzles i don't fly i cant find > any > > > information on the > > > -> effects > > > > of lite rain other then higher stick pressers > with > > > the Kr. it seams that > > > > most wood propped airplanes don't fly anyway > do to > > > damage with or > > > > without > > > > urethane edge is what i understand. i just > like > > > to know if IM caught in a shower > > > > will it do damage to the aircraft i always > wipe it > > > down if it gets wet or > > > > washing i also avoid the hinge points > (controls) > > > mac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > n1055a flying > > > > flymaca711689@aol.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > see KRnet list details at > > > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > -- > > > > ___________________________________________________ > > > Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.operamail.com, > > > which allows you to > send > > > SMS through your mailbox. > > > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at > > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > ===== > > Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% > rwdw2002@yahoo.com > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:46:43 -0600 From: "Mike Turner" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>IT PASSED Message-ID: References: <4b.379b785e.2d06254f@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20031209180342.0084dbf0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 13 Congraulations Larry on your inspection. Can't wait to see it. Is that = 55 staute miles or nautical miles? If your out flying drop in to Cape = Girardeau Mo. sometime. (cgi) ---only 48 statute from you. Let me know = when and I'll be there. Good luck on your first flight!! Mike Turner ----- Original Message -----=20 From: larry flesner=20 To: KRnet=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:03 PM Subject: KR>IT PASSED Netters, My KR passed it final inspection today with only 4 minor things to do / correct. 1. label my outside canopy latch handle for "open" and "closed". That item is done. 2. A slight re-routing of my fuel line from the gascolator to the carb. I plan to relocate my gascolator a few inches to take care of that item. Estimated time 1 hour. 3. Install a stretched spring in my crankcase vent line to the=20 air/oil separator to keep it from colapsing. Estimated time 10 minutes. 4. Re-safety my prop bolts with .040 wire instead of the .032 I had used. He indicated he had seen the lighter wire=20 fail but never the .040. Estimated time 30 minutes. THEN IT IS READY TO FLY!!! The aircraft inspection took about 30 minutes and the paperwork was maybe 1.5 hours. The inspector's only comment was " you're going to have a nice airplane". I promised to stop in and see him on my way to visit Mark Langford when I get the time flown off. He was going to give me a 50 mile flight test area but I asked him to include one of my favorite airports at 54 miles. He said he would just make it 55 miles instead. What he looked for: - general workmanship - use of proper hardware and the correct use of that hardware. Bolts the right length, only steel locknuts in the engine compartment, turnbuckles safety wired, etc. - All required placards and all controls, switches, knobs, etc., = labeled for operation. - He suggested I install a heat shield on the bottom end of my brake = line to shield it from the heat of the brake. My line is nylon. He didn't write that one up but I have an easy fix in mind and will probably=20 take care of that item before first flight. It will be a few days before I have time to finish correcting the = items and the weather is forcasted to be bad for a few days so it will probably be at least the weekend before first flight. I'll keep you posted. Larry ( proud owner of a LEGAL KR2 ) Flesner Carterville, Illinois _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:53:52 -0500 From: "Dean Cooper" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>IT PASSED Message-ID: References: <4b.379b785e.2d06254f@aol.com> <3.0.6.32.20031209180342.0084dbf0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 14 Congrats Larry! Thanks for sharing the news. Look forward to hearing = about your first flight! Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@msn.com See my KR project at: www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: larry flesner=20 To: KRnet=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 7:03 PM Subject: KR>IT PASSED ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:13:22 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: KR>Co-Cured-Co-Bonded, Hat Stiffened TurtleDeck Message-ID: <20031210011322.6265.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031209.192652.-316917.1.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 OOOOO-; As soon as Dan gets my newest pictures (that are being developed) I'll have some additional photos of the build process.--No Pressure Dan:-) -- When Dan's site comes back up: My Turtledeck is co-cured, co-bonded and hat-stiffened. The outer "skin" is 2 plys of BID and 1 ply of lightweight deck cloth. The Hat stiffeners are fabricated from 2 plys of 3 in BID Tape. To briefly explain how it was fabricated: Created a Foam Tool Laid-up and cured the Outer Skin Removed the Outer Skin from the Foam Tool Carved the Hat Cavities into the Foam Tool Applied Duct Tape into the Hat Cavities Laid-up the Hats over the Duct Tape Applied Cotton Flox to the Hat Flange perimeter Positioned the Outer Skin onto the Foam Tool Allowed the whole assembly to cure I removed the CO-cured and bonded assembly from the foam tool last night and weighed it: 4lbs 10 oz. I still have to build the rear canopy "roll hoop", and add two more layers of BID along the bottom edge where the piano hinge attaches. Add maybe .75 - 1.5 pounds? Weights gotten from other builders RR Premolded parts thus far are between 8.5 and 9 lbs. Not premolded, Maybe as much as 11 lbs? For a weight savings of 2.25 - 5 lbs, x the moment arm aft of CG... I think I'm going the right direction! --- Joseph H Horton wrote: > Scott, > It has been a few years but I recall that my turtle deck from RR was around 9 lbs. This was for the 2S. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:20:49 -0500 From: Joseph H Horton To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>IT PASSED Message-ID: <20031209.202049.-413985.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Alright Larry, I'm going for a beer to salute you. Here's to a great first flight! Best of luck-- Joe Horton > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "larry flesner" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:03 PM > Subject: KR>IT PASSED ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:23:39 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Co-Cured-Co-Bonded, Hat Stiffened TurtleDeck Message-ID: <3FD6759B.000033.02580@Computer> References: <20031210011322.6265.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 17 RE:: My Turtledeck is co-cured, co-bonded and=0D hat-stiffened.=0D =0D Scott,=0D =0D What do you mean by "co"? And, did you leave the HATs in? I am looking forward to getting the pics.=0D =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Tue Dec 09 17:38:36 2003 Received: from mta01.alltel.net ([166.102.165.143] helo=mta01-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1ATtJE-0008Ww-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:38:36 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.136]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20031210012645.FOQZ11508.mta01-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:26:45 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3FD6765B.000035.02580@Computer> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:26:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <3.0.6.32.20031209180342.0084dbf0@pop.midwest.net> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>IT PASSED Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Well, now we know. There will be at least 1 KR at next years gathering.=20 And a FINE one at that.=0D =0D Did you have any doubts? =0D =0D I am interested to hear about your brake line fix. We have nylon also. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From lmcgee@maqs.net Tue Dec 09 17:50:27 2003 Received: from diamond.maqs.net ([66.187.32.14]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1ATtUh-00097L-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 17:50:27 -0800 Received: from lori8v5h2xi9m3 (oxfo-pvc-133-39.dsl.maqs.net [66.187.41.37]) by diamond.maqs.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 82BDFDB15A for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:38:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <002001c3bebe$60df5aa0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:38:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2727.1300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>questions - wafs / rims X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: On the new wing design with the stronger spars, because the wafs will be = farther apart, does this this also create a higher rating in the wafs? =20 I am pretty sure now I will be pushing the limit plus of the KR2S with = this foam fused flyer, partially because lets see, the HS is larger, = fuse both fore (4 inches) and aft (2 inches), and the wings are all = larger than the kr2s plans. Having read in the archives that it is the = wafs that were the weakest link, ( especially now with the larger spar). = I would not worry about the extra weight if I could get the wafs that = much stronger. I thought about increasing their thickness, but have = been wondering what the added spacing does. =20 I guess I am also going to have to bite the bullet on those dang wheels = with a heavier plane. Any of you heavy S guys using those Asuza rims?=20 Any suggestions? Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net=20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:43:54 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Co-Cured-Co-Bonded, Hat Stiffened TurtleDeck Message-ID: <20031210014354.1513.qmail@web40811.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3FD6759B.000033.02580@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 18 The composites use of the term "co" means simultaneously. Hence: the hat stiffeners are simutaneously cured and simultaneously bonded, into the outerskin. Another way of describing it is that the hat stiffeners were bonded and cured at the same time to the skin. The Hat stiffeners get their name because they resemble a Top Hat in section. Sort of like _/\_ shaped upside down? I showed some pictures to folks here at work, and a couple of folks described my pictures as "innovative" and "clever". I think they're just being nice! --- Dan Heath wrote: > RE:: My Turtledeck is co-cured, co-bonded and > hat-stiffened. > What do you mean by "co"? And, did you leave the > HATs in? I am looking forward to getting the pics. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:49:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Brian Kraut To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>questions - wafs / rims Message-ID: <30124934.1071021003216.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 The net result of using a thicker wing and having the WAFs further apart is that there is less stress on them. If the center point of the lift on your wing was 10' from the WAFs and you were holding up 500 pounds of plane on that one wing the torque would be 500 foot pounds. If your WAFs were 6" apart from each other you would have 1000 pounds of tension on the bottom WAF and 1000 pounds of compression on the top one. If you could increase the distance between them to 1' you would only have 500 pounds acting on each one. Steve and Lori McGee wrote: On the new wing design with the stronger spars, because the wafs will be farther apart, does this this also create a higher rating in the wafs? I am pretty sure now I will be pushing the limit plus of the KR2S with this foam fused flyer, partially because lets see, the HS is larger, fuse both fore (4 inches) and aft (2 inches), and the wings are all larger than the kr2s plans. Having read in the archives that it is the wafs that were the weakest link, ( especially now with the larger spar). I would not worry about the extra weight if I could get the wafs that much stronger. I thought about increasing their thickness, but have been wondering what the added spacing does. I guess I am also going to have to bite the bullet on those dang wheels with a heavier plane. Any of you heavy S guys using those Asuza rims? Any suggestions? Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:08:08 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wilson To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>questions - wafs / rims Message-ID: <20031210020808.60809.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <002001c3bebe$60df5aa0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 20 Steve, My KR2 weighs 690 lbs. with the 0200. I'm using azusa wheels on it. It has flown with them and they are still in great shape. Rick Wilson. --- Steve and Lori McGee wrote: > On the new wing design with the stronger spars, > because the wafs will be farther apart, does this > this also create a higher rating in the wafs? > > I am pretty sure now I will be pushing the limit > plus of the KR2S with this foam fused flyer, > partially because lets see, the HS is larger, fuse > both fore (4 inches) and aft (2 inches), and the > wings are all larger than the kr2s plans. Having > read in the archives that it is the wafs that were > the weakest link, ( especially now with the larger > spar). I would not worry about the extra weight if > I could get the wafs that much stronger. I thought > about increasing their thickness, but have been > wondering what the added spacing does. > > I guess I am also going to have to bite the bullet > on those dang wheels with a heavier plane. Any of > you heavy S guys using those Asuza rims? > > Any suggestions? > > Steve McGee > Endeavor Wi. USA > Building a KR2S widened. > lmcgee@maqs.net > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 244, Issue 2 *************************************