From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:04 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 245, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: IT PASSED (Brian Kraut) 2. Passing (Colin) 3. Vortex Generators (Gordon Sorensen) 4. Re: questions - wafs / rims (Steve and Lori McGee) 5. Glass Wetting Mark Langford 6. Re: Vortex Generators (Rick Wilson) 7. Colin's Lap Belt attachments (Scott Cable) 8. Re: Glass Wetting Mark Langford (Mark Langford) 9. Re: questions - wafs / rims (Mark Langford) 10. Fw: KR>questions - wafs / rims (Steve and Lori McGee) 11. Re: IT PASSED 12. Removing Adhesive Residue From Fiberglass And From Plywood 13. RE: IT PASSED (Jack Cooper) 14. RE: questions - wafs and spar depth (Ron Freiberger) 15. RE: Vortex Generators (Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)) 16. RE: rain and the kr (Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)) 17. RE: Vortex Generators (Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)) 18. RE: IT PASSED (Dan Heath) 19. Re: Removing Adhesive Residue From Fiberglass And From Plywood (Dana Overall) 20. Re: Colin's Lap Belt attachments (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:16:31 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Brian Kraut To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>IT PASSED Message-ID: <7867406.1071018992678.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Congratulations on your beautifull newborn KR. Let me be one of the first to welcome you as a completed KR owner. You will get taught the secret handshake as soon as you complete the first flight. Wishing you the best on the first flight and hoping that the hardest part is the drive to the airport with the butterflies in your stomach. larry flesner wrote: Netters, My KR passed it final inspection today with only 4 minor things to do / correct. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:29:53 -0500 From: "Colin" To: Subject: KR>Passing Message-ID: <004b01c3bec5$7f812270$f2452141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2 Congrats! Larry! That is great and it sounds like all the extra time you spent paid off. = Don't forget the double and then one more time check of everything just = before takeoff that first time. I remember a drag racer who was too = anxious to get out and try his combination once he thought he had it = right, and forgot to pin his hood, took off down the practice lane and = busted his windshield! Don't let a small detail bite you. TAKE YOUR = TIME> It is a beautiful plane, you should be proud! We are all proud of TIME> = you. Hope to be joining you real soon.=20 Worked on mounting the landing lights tonight. Mounted the toggle = switches over the weekend. Still need to wire out to the wings and = then.... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html Sanford, Florida KR Gathering 2004-see ya in Mt VernonFrom n56ml@hiwaay.net Tue Dec 09 18:48:22 2003 Received: from smtp3.knology.net ([24.214.63.14] helo=smtp2.knology.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1ATuOk-0009xN-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:48:22 -0800 Received: (qmail 31609 invoked from network); 10 Dec 2003 02:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO basement) (24.214.88.148) by smtp3.knology.net with SMTP; 10 Dec 2003 02:36:31 -0000 Message-ID: <012a01c3bec6$862acda0$1202a8c0@basement> From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" References: <002001c3bebe$60df5aa0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Subject: Re: KR>questions - wafs / rims Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:37:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Steve McGee wrote: > On the new wing design with the stronger spars, because the wafs will > be farther apart, does this this also create a higher rating in the wafs? < You are correct, as Brian said. I'm going to be picky here, but it's not actually the WAFs that's the weak point, it's the wood that the bolts going through the WAFs are bearing on that's going to fail first, as analyzed by Don Reid. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 02:46:51 +0000 From: "Gordon Sorensen" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Vortex Generators Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 Hi All There seems to be a little confusion of the theory and practical use of vortex generators. Here is my 2 cents worth. A Vortex generator is a group of small tabs on the top or bottom of the wing (also used on the vertical stab on some aircraft). They are small (short) enough to be only in the laminar flow of the wing. The tab is set at an angle to the airflow to introduce a rotation (or energy) to the airflow. This has the effect of keeping the airflow attached to the wing at a greater angle of attack. they do not reduce cruise speed at all. On laminar flow airfoils that are greatly affected by bugs on the leading edge, a vortex generator will help keep the airflow attached to the wing even with the bug or rain disturbing the flow. Many aircraft are using vortex generators, and we have them on the Cessna 414A that I fly. The vortex generators reduce the stall speed and Vmc (single engine control speed) with the resulting lower field length requirements. According to the specs, if more than 3 are mssing, we have to operate the aircraft as if it was not equiped. Another example is the New Piper Meridan. Piper added approx 72 vortex gens on the wings and horiontal stab and was able to increase the useful load by 240 lbs and keep the same stall speed. Hope this didn't add to the confusion. Gord Sorensen twotterdriver@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/features&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 20:51:54 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: "Brian Kraut" , "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>questions - wafs / rims Message-ID: <003a01c3bec8$9236fe00$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> References: <30124934.1071021003216.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 So then I believe the new spar was found to be about 18% stronger than the old one, so add 18% to the gross load? 1239# rated load? 1200 with safety margin? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 7:49 PM Subject: Re: KR>questions - wafs / rims > > The net result of using a thicker wing and having the WAFs further > apart is that there is less stress on them. If the center point of the lift on your wing was 10' from the WAFs and you were holding up 500 pounds of plane on that one wing the torque would be 500 foot pounds. If your WAFs were 6" apart from each other you would have 1000 pounds of tension on the bottom WAF and 1000 pounds of compression on the top one. If you could increase the distance between them to 1' you would only have 500 pounds acting on each one. > > > Steve and Lori McGee wrote: > > On the new wing design with the stronger spars, because the wafs will > be farther apart, does this this also create a higher rating in the wafs? > > I am pretty sure now I will be pushing the limit plus of the KR2S with this foam fused flyer, partially because lets see, the HS is larger, fuse both fore (4 inches) and aft (2 inches), and the wings are all larger than the kr2s plans. Having read in the archives that it is the wafs that were the weakest link, ( especially now with the larger spar). I would not worry about the extra weight if I could get the wafs that much stronger. I thought about increasing their thickness, but have been wondering what the added spacing does. > > I guess I am also going to have to bite the bullet on those dang > wheels with a heavier plane. Any of you heavy S guys using those Asuza rims? > > Any suggestions? > > Steve McGee > Endeavor Wi. USA > Building a KR2S widened. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:53:48 -0500 From: Boeing757mech1@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Glass Wetting Mark Langford Message-ID: <0404AE74.4371E94E.83FC6405@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Mark, You must work at a composite shop repair station the services Boeing aircraft. I then used the plastic sheet layup method to apply a layer of 5.85 oz fiberglass to the inside surface. This little known method is accomplished by first laying a sheet of 4 mil plastic (builder's plastic from Home Depot) over the object to be glassed, and outlining the shape with a Sharpie marker. The plastic is then laid out on the layup table and glass is rolled out on top of it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:56:37 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wilson To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Vortex Generators Message-ID: <20031210025637.78896.qmail@web21208.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 I thought that was what I said in Alabama "hillbilly english," Rick Wilson. > Hi All > > There seems to be a little confusion of the theory > and practical use of > vortex generators. Here is my 2 cents worth. > > A Vortex generator is a group of small tabs on the > top or bottom of the > wing (also used on the vertical stab on some > aircraft). They are small > (short) enough to be only in the laminar flow of the > wing. The tab is set > at an angle to the airflow to introduce a rotation > (or energy) to the > airflow. This has the effect of keeping the airflow > attached to the wing at > a greater angle of attack. they do not reduce > cruise speed at all. > > On laminar flow airfoils that are greatly affected > by bugs on the leading > edge, a vortex generator will help keep the airflow > attached to the wing > even with the bug or rain disturbing the flow. > > Many aircraft are using vortex generators, and we > have them on the Cessna > 414A that I fly. The vortex generators reduce the > stall speed and Vmc > (single engine control speed) with the resulting > lower field length > requirements. According to the specs, if more than > 3 are mssing, we have to > operate the aircraft as if it was not equiped. > > Another example is the New Piper Meridan. Piper > added approx 72 vortex > gens on the wings and horiontal stab and was able > to increase the useful > load by 240 lbs and keep the same stall speed. > > Hope this didn't add to the confusion. > > Gord Sorensen > twotterdriver@hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/features&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:02:30 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: KR>Colin's Lap Belt attachments Message-ID: <20031210030230.81907.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <004b01c3bec5$7f812270$f2452141@Beverly> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 Heh Colin, I ran accross an article that was a strength analysis done on the lap and shoulder belt attachments, done specicly for the KR-2. I can bottom line it for you- the article recommended 5/16 fasteners. It came up with the same numbers I arrived at. The analysis was done by a registered and licensed Mechanical engineer. If you contact me offline and send me your address, I'll be happy to make a copy of it and send it to you. s2cable1@yahoo.com or k.scott.cable@boeing.com ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:28:12 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR> Glass Wetting Mark Langford Message-ID: <000d01c3becd$a408a930$2402a8c0@800Athlon> References: <0404AE74.4371E94E.83FC6405@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 > You must work at a composite shop repair station the services Boeing aircraft. No, I learned that trick from the kind folks at Task Research in Oklahoma. I may not be the sharpest kid on the block, but I know a good idea when I see one! Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:36:37 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>questions - wafs / rims Message-ID: <001701c3bece$d16abe80$2402a8c0@800Athlon> References: <30124934.1071021003216.JavaMail.root@dewey.psp.pas.earthlink.net> <003a01c3bec8$9236fe00$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 > So then I believe the new spar was found to be about 18% stronger > than the > old one, so add 18% to the gross load? 1239# rated load? 1200 with safety > margin? I don't think you can make that leap. The spar is 18% stronger, but that's not how it'll fail. It's the compression of the wood fibers where the WAF bolts bear on the spar caps. So if the standard wing has WAFs centered on 6", and your new wing has WAFs centered on 7", then you might get away with putting 17% more load on them (7/6). I guess that's splitting hairs though. And this is all assuming that you haven't surpassed the strength of some other member somewhere first.... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:39:24 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Subject: Fw: KR>questions - wafs / rims Message-ID: <00a501c3becf$34e5a9c0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 ----- > So then I believe the new spar was found to be about 18% stronger > than the > old one, so add 18% to the gross load? 1239# rated load? 1200 with safety > margin? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Kraut" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 7:49 PM > Subject: Re: KR>questions - wafs / rims > > > > > > The net result of using a thicker wing and having the WAFs further > > apart > is that there is less stress on them. If the center point of the lift > on your wing was 10' from the WAFs and you were holding up 500 pounds > of plane > on that one wing the torque would be 500 foot pounds. If your WAFs > were 6" > apart from each other you would have 1000 pounds of tension on the > bottom WAF and 1000 pounds of compression on the top one. If you > could increase the distance between them to 1' you would only have 500 > pounds acting on each one. > > > > > > Steve and Lori McGee wrote: > > > > On the new wing design with the stronger spars, because the wafs > > will be > farther apart, does this this also create a higher rating in the wafs? > > > > I am pretty sure now I will be pushing the limit plus of the KR2S > > with > this foam fused flyer, partially because lets see, the HS is larger, > fuse both fore (4 inches) and aft (2 inches), and the wings are all > larger than the kr2s plans. Having read in the archives that it is > the wafs that were the weakest link, ( especially now with the larger > spar). I would not worry > about the extra weight if I could get the wafs that much stronger. I > thought about increasing their thickness, but have been wondering > what the > added spacing does. > > > > I guess I am also going to have to bite the bullet on those dang > > wheels > with a heavier plane. Any of you heavy S guys using those Asuza rims? > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Steve McGee > > Endeavor Wi. USA > > Building a KR2S widened. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:07:05 EST From: FIXERJONES@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>IT PASSED Message-ID: <11.1e230c80.2d07f5e9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 congrats larry,the excitement your having is still fresh in my mind. i went thru the same thing a month ago with my KR2,N212KR & since then, put 38 hrs on it! your going to have a blast with it,,enjoy! steve jones.venice fl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:14:04 +0000 From: rickcoy@comcast.net To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Removing Adhesive Residue From Fiberglass And From Plywood Message-ID: <121020030414.26155.36e3@comcast.net> Precedence: list Message: 12 My Diehl wing skins have some very old duct tape adhesive residue on them. There is also some on various plywood surfaces. I checked the archives on this but couldn’t find a definitive “I know this is safe because I’ve done it” kind of post. Any suggestions for safe ways to remove adhesive residue from fiberglass -- and from plywood? Rick Coykendall Recently Purchased a KR-2 Project rickcoy@comcast.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 23:32:08 -0500 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "KRnet" Subject: RE: KR>IT PASSED Message-ID: <410-22003123104328500@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 Congratulations Larry. I'll see it at the gathering in Sept 04, unless you are flying through NC. Robert J. (Jack) Cooper kr2cooper@earthlink.net http://www.jackandsandycooper.com/kr2.html Why Wait? Move to EarthLink. > [Original Message] > From: Larry flesner > To: KRnet > Date: 12/9/03 7:22:24 PM > Subject: KR>IT PASSED > > > > Netters, > > My KR passed it final inspection today with only 4 minor things to do > / correct. > > 1. label my outside canopy latch handle for "open" and "closed". > That item is done. > 2. A slight re-routing of my fuel line from the gascolator to the > carb. I plan to relocate my gascolator a few inches to take > care of that item. Estimated time 1 hour. > 3. Install a stretched spring in my crankcase vent line to the > air/oil separator to keep it from colapsing. Estimated time > 10 minutes. > 4. Re-safety my prop bolts with .040 wire instead of the .032 > I had used. He indicated he had seen the lighter wire > fail but never the .040. Estimated time 30 minutes. > > THEN IT IS READY TO FLY!!! > > The aircraft inspection took about 30 minutes and the paperwork was > maybe 1.5 hours. The inspector's only comment was " you're going to > have a nice airplane". I promised to stop in and see him on my way to > visit Mark Langford when I get the time flown off. He was going to > give me a 50 mile flight test area but I asked him to include one of > my favorite airports at 54 miles. He said he would just make it 55 > miles instead. > > What he looked for: > - general workmanship > - use of proper hardware and the correct use of that hardware. Bolts > the right length, only steel locknuts in the engine compartment, > turnbuckles safety wired, etc. > - All required placards and all controls, switches, knobs, etc., > labeled for operation. > - He suggested I install a heat shield on the bottom end of my brake > line to > shield it from the heat of the brake. My line is nylon. He didn't > write that one up but I have an easy fix in mind and will probably > take care of that item before first flight. > > It will be a few days before I have time to finish correcting the > items and the weather is forcasted to be bad for a few days so it will > probably be at least the weekend before first flight. I'll keep you > posted. > > Larry ( proud owner of a LEGAL KR2 ) Flesner > Carterville, Illinois > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 00:13:30 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KRnet" Subject: RE: KR>questions - wafs and spar depth Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <001701c3bece$d16abe80$2402a8c0@800Athlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Mark said; I guess that's splitting hairs though. And this is all assuming that you haven't surpassed the strength of some other member somewhere first.... is this where ASS U ME comes in? If it's well designed, like "The Deacon's One Horse Shay", it'll al come apart at once.... Ron Freiberger mailto: r.freiberger at earthlink.net r dot freiberger.... get it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:32:56 +0100 From: "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>Vortex Generators Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 Mark, Try for example this link:http: //home1.gte.net/pjbemail/VortexGen.html If you want more type "vortex generator" in google and you will find a lot of info. Alex Birca, Moldova -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Mark Youkey Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:27 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR>Vortex Generators Rick, Perhaps you can explain the vortex generator to me. We have them on the E-3, which is a modified Boeing 707. I don't see how they would help with bugs or rain, as they are on the top of the wing, 3/4 of the way back from the leading edge, and outboard of the elevators. I'm not sure what they do (besides generate a vortex), and I just figured they are a "big plane" thing, and I shouldn't mess with them on a KR. But obviously they do something, otherwise they wouldn't be there. Thanks, Mark Youkey myoukey@cox.net Oklahoma City ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Wilson" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 5:13 PM Subject: RE: KR>rain and the kr > Alex, Vortex generators are generally not that > effective except when used on canard airplanes. Rick > Wilson. > --- "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" > wrote: > > They are called Vortex generator, they are the > > rain/bugs contamination fix. > > I had asked before KR-netters opinion about to use > > them on KR, but it seems > > no body know about. Generally the Quickie and > > Dragonfly owners who have installed them > > reporting not only fixing bugs/rain contamination > > fixing but as well lowering the stall speed. > > > > BR, > > Alex Birca, > > Moldova > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On > > Behalf Of Ross Youngblood > > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:51 PM > > To: KRnet > > Subject: Re: KR>rain and the kr > > > > > > Good thing you don't live in Oregon. > > > > I've seen some paint damage on spam cans out here > > due to flying in severe rain. I haven't flown my KR > > out here, but haven't heard from local EAA ers not > > to fly in the rain generally. > > > > Their was a canard aircraft which had some rain > > issues > > and I think I heard some similar comments from a > > Long-EZ > > pilot who had some canard fix. I'm open to hearing > > from netters on this, but haven't been "warned" off > > of flying when the wing gets wet. > > > > I think this is one of those "laminar flow" type > > concerns > > and at the moment, I don't even recall if the KR > > airflow > > RAF-46 (I think) was a laminar flow airfoil. It's > > older > > so I would bet it is not laminar flow... but I'm a > > hose > > head, and often wrong. > > > > -- Ross > > > > -> each time it drizzles i don't fly i cant find any > > information on the > > -> effects > > > of lite rain other then higher stick pressers with > > the Kr. it seams that > > > most wood propped airplanes don't fly anyway do to > > damage with or > > > without > > > urethane edge is what i understand. i just like > > to know if IM caught in a shower > > > will it do damage to the aircraft i always wipe it > > down if it gets wet or > > > washing i also avoid the hinge points (controls) > > mac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > n1055a flying > > > flymaca711689@aol.com > > > _______________________________________________ > > > see KRnet list details at > > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > -- > > ___________________________________________________ > > Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.operamail.com, which > > allows you to send SMS through your mailbox. > > > > Powered by Outblaze > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > ===== > Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:35:14 +0100 From: "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>rain and the kr Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 But how about lowering the stall speed? Or, may be for better handling high angle of attack situation? Alex -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+alexander.birca=ericsson.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+alexander.birca=ericsson.com@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Rick Wilson Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:14 AM To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR>rain and the kr Alex, Vortex generators are generally not that effective except when used on canard airplanes. Rick Wilson. --- "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" wrote: > They are called Vortex generator, they are the > rain/bugs contamination fix. > I had asked before KR-netters opinion about to use > them on KR, but it seems > no body know about. Generally the Quickie and > Dragonfly owners who have installed them > reporting not only fixing bugs/rain contamination > fixing but as well lowering the stall speed. > > BR, > Alex Birca, > Moldova > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On > Behalf Of Ross Youngblood > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 10:51 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR>rain and the kr > > > Good thing you don't live in Oregon. > > I've seen some paint damage on spam cans out here > due to flying in severe rain. I haven't flown my KR > out here, but haven't heard from local EAA ers not > to fly in the rain generally. > > Their was a canard aircraft which had some rain > issues > and I think I heard some similar comments from a > Long-EZ > pilot who had some canard fix. I'm open to hearing > from netters on this, but haven't been "warned" off > of flying when the wing gets wet. > > I think this is one of those "laminar flow" type > concerns > and at the moment, I don't even recall if the KR > airflow > RAF-46 (I think) was a laminar flow airfoil. It's > older > so I would bet it is not laminar flow... but I'm a > hose > head, and often wrong. > > -- Ross > > -> each time it drizzles i don't fly i cant find any > information on the > -> effects > > of lite rain other then higher stick pressers with > the Kr. it seams that > > most wood propped airplanes don't fly anyway do to > damage with or > > without > > urethane edge is what i understand. i just like > to know if IM caught in a shower > > will it do damage to the aircraft i always wipe it > down if it gets wet or > > washing i also avoid the hinge points (controls) > mac. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > n1055a flying > > flymaca711689@aol.com > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > -- > ___________________________________________________ > Check out the latest SMS services @ > http://www.operamail.com, which allows you to send > SMS through your mailbox. > > Powered by Outblaze > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Rick Wilson, Haleyville, Alabama KR2-0200A -99% rwdw2002@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:37:54 +0100 From: "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>Vortex Generators Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17 Thanks Larry, good enough explanation do not use vortex on KR and similar. Alex Birca -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+alexander.birca=ericsson.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+alexander.birca=ericsson.com@mylist.net] On Behalf Of larry severson Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:08 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Vortex Generators >Perhaps you can explain the vortex generator to me. Vortex generators prevent separation of the airflow from the wing surface by creating turbulent flow. It will help in reducing the effective stall speed for most aircraft because they are placed in the area in front of ailerons and flaps to guarantee that the airflow will not separate prior to hitting those surfaces. The stall becomes more recoverable. With the KR2's long aileron and a wing designed to stall at the tips first, they only create more drag without impacting stall speeds. {You will recognize the loss of lift on a KR2 long before you will be thrown into a spin.} Anything that creates turbulent flow creates drag (bad, bad, bad when you want to go fast with a small engine). Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:58:57 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: RE: KR>IT PASSED Message-ID: <3FD6FC71.000009.01444@Computer> References: <410-22003123104328500@earthlink.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 18 RE: I'll see it at the gathering in Sept 04, unless you=0D are flying through NC.=0D =0D And..... If you are flying through NC, SC is only a little, very short f= or a KR, way away. =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Wed Dec 10 03:14:07 2003 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AU2IB-000I24-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:14:07 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.136]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20031210110218.GXKT15697.mta02-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 05:02:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <3FD6FD40.00000B.01444@Computer> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:02:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <121020030414.26155.36e3@comcast.net> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Removing Adhesive Residue From Fiberglass And From Plywood Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: 3M makes a product, that I keep as if it were another tool. It is made specifically for removing gummy stuff. I have used it on everything, including canopy bubbles and it is perfectly safe. If you are interested= , I will get the specific name of it for you. I got it at my auto paint stor= e.=0D =0D This should be in the archives, because I have posted this more than once= =2E =0D =0D N64KR=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Click on the pic=0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From bo124rs@hotmail.com Wed Dec 10 04:01:29 2003 Received: from bay13-f34.bay13.hotmail.com ([64.4.31.34] helo=hotmail.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AU321-000IKF-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 04:01:29 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 03:49:40 -0800 Received: from 64.12.96.200 by by13fd.bay13.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:49:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [64.12.96.200] X-Originating-Email: [bo124rs@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bo124rs@hotmail.com From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Bcc: Subject: Re: KR> Glass Wetting Mark Langford Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:49:40 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Dec 2003 11:49:40.0659 (UTC) FILETIME=[B1E87030:01C3BF13] X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: > > You must work at a composite shop repair station the services Boeing >aircraft. > Nah, but he has stayed at a Holiday Inn Express:-) Let's see now Mark, you've had stuff in space, a ton of "stuff" with Lionhart (sp) and now Boeing...................royalties, I say royalties!! Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Get holiday tips for festive fun. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:04:29 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Removing Adhesive Residue From Fiberglass And From Plywood Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 19 >From: "Dan Heath" > >3M makes a product, that I keep as if it were another tool. It is made >specifically for removing gummy stuff. I have used it on everything, >including canopy bubbles and it is perfectly safe. One word of caution here, I visited the manufacturer of Van's canopies. During the course of my visit a discussion of cleaning canopies came up. They recommend not using off the shelf products such as Windex, 409 and the such. Their advice is to avoid using anything which might, in it's chemical combination, craze or blemish the canopy. For canopies, they recommend kerosine rinsed off afterwards with a combination of Dawn diswashing liquid, then straight water. I know this doesn't apply to removing adhesive from plywood, I just thought I'd throw it out as a thought. The nuts and bolts of their arguement is you have no idea what the chemical makeup is of off the shelf products. That big ol bubble is too costly, too man hour intensive, too nice looking to ruin for the sake of brevity. A case in point about using products around your canopies. The front windscreen of the RV canopy is drilled then attached to the roll bar with screws. Several years ago, people decided they needed to improve on the instructions and Loctite the screws. Guess what, everybody ended up with spider webs around each hole which just so happen to be two inches apart..........a lot a crazing. Now, everyone is using a product called Vibratite which is proven not to craze the Van's canopy. Be careful what you use around canopies it could come back to haunt you a couple years down the road. I put some loctite around a drilled hole (trying to get it to penetrate an edge) in a scrap piece. So far no crazing, but it will here in a couple months. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ online games and music with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 06:56:26 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Colin's Lap Belt attachments Message-ID: <007d01c3bf1d$05fe8930$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> References: <20031210030230.81907.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 20 Scott Cable wrote: > I ran accross an article that was a strength analysis > done on the lap and shoulder belt attachments, done > specicly for the KR-2. > I can bottom line it for you- the article recommended > 5/16 fasteners. RR had their structural engineer guy whip up an attachment system for the shoulder belts back in 1998, but it doesn't actually mention bolt size! (See the two links below for details). I think the plans call for 3/16 bolts holding the seat belts, and I get the impression from the links below that he intended the shoulder belts to be bolted with .25" bolts, but if the scale of the drawing means anything, it's clearly 3/16" or even less. I'm not saying I agree, or that it's right, just throwing it out there as the "official" word from RR, for whatever that's worth. http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/seat1.jpg http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/seat2.jpg The above links are accessible from http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/misc.html also, about 2/3 of the way down. Scott, did that article appear in an old Newsletter or something? If so, aim me towards it and I'll check it out. Thanks, Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 245, Issue 1 *************************************