From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 333, Issue 1 Date: 3/7/2004 11:53:08 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Diehl wing tanks (Phillip Matheson) 2. Re: How light can a KR be?? (The Weber's) 3. Re: Gatherings 4. Re: KR2 soob engine mount (bill kirkland) 5. Re: Gatherings (Dana Overall) 6. Gatherings 7. Larry's Lady II (Stephen Jacobs) 8. Re: Gatherings (Dana Overall) 9. RE: Gatherings and No Shows.... (Ron Freiberger) 10. Template error? 11. spar cap width 12. SAA Fly-In; Re: KR>Gatherings (Ed Janssen) 13. Re: Template error? (Mark Langford) 14. Re: spar cap width (Mark Langford) 15. Re: Gatherings (Dan Heath) 16. Gatherings - wakeup call (Larry A Capps) 17. KR1-B wakeup call (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:18:26 +1100 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Diehl wing tanks Message-ID: <010901c403c8$f29e7530$2c97dccb@StationW2k04> References: <3.0.6.32.20040304091605.00838210@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 If not air will become trapped as you fill the tank and you would have large air bubbles in the tank instead of fuel. ----------------------------------------------- Larry. Thanks You are correct, I forgot to vent the air from the front top of the chamber. I emailed Dan Diehl and as asked if fuel getting onto the foam in his plyfoam, would effect the foam his reply " NO Problem" So I will drill a 3/8" or so right through the top corners of the tank from the inboard end and through the baffles and the patch the small hole the inboard end. simple to fix This why the KRnet works. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:43:42 -0600 From: "The Weber's" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>How light can a KR be?? Message-ID: <000f01c403cc$7ab1c960$4acab4d8@hppav> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 I built a KR-2 with a 1600 VW. No electrical. It weighed 480 pounds. I just completed a KR-2S with full electrical, wing tanks ect. Empty weight is 612. Good luck. Joe weber Cuba City, Wis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Anderson" To: Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: KR>How light can a KR be?? > About to finish my first plane--I'm already thinking about a KR2S. Not > for speed. Not for transglobal flight. Bare bones light. Maybe even an > 1835 engine. (My wife and I weigh 260# combined.) > > I've searched the archives without finding a direct answer to the question: > How light can you make it? Airframe alone? Airframe plus engine? > > Your thoughts would be much appreciated. > > -Eric Anderson > > ewander@mn.rr.com > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 3:15:58 +0000 From: To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Gatherings Message-ID: <200403070315.i273Fw3L002764@mxsf29.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Hope I didn't send this twice. I think any and all oportunities to get the KR out to the public is great. Why not meet using regional fly-ins. A couple examples are the Pancake breakfast held by a large EAA chapter near Atlanta, GA. And a Fly-in "thunder in the Valley", held in Columbus GA. KR'ers in the Southeast can make those and I'm sure others can make Fly-ins in their area. Steven Phillabaum Auburn, AL. Just get the KR out to the public. > > From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" > Date: 2004/03/06 Sat PM 05:15:02 GMT > To: "KRnet" > Subject: KR>Gatherings > > Netters > Here is an offlist post that summarizes my feelings very well, and > also identifies how I want to supplement the Gathering not replace it. > I intend to go this year where ever it is and when, but support Orma > on the date change. Here is the post, any/all feedback welcome: > Colin & Bev Rainey > KR2(td) N96TA > Sanford, FL > crainey1@cfl.rr.com > or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com > http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html________________________________ > _______ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:17:25 -0500 From: "bill kirkland" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>KR2 soob engine mount Message-ID: <008101c403fb$1c94b980$02488a3f@lndn.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Dave; Try Dave Johnson at "reductions" W.G.(Bill) KIRKLAND wkirkland@rogers.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dave Jeltema=20 To: krnet@mylist.net=20 Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:07 AM Subject: KR>KR2 soob engine mount Does anyone have a subaru EA81 engine mount, or plans for one = available for sale or is there anyone that makes them thank you = everyone keep up the good work! Thank You=20 Dave Jeltema -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar - includes FREE pop-up = blocking!=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 07:32:57 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Gatherings Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 >From: >I think any and all oportunities to get the KR out to the public is >great. >Why not meet using regional fly-ins. A couple examples are the Pancake >breakfast held by a large EAA chapter near Atlanta, GA. And a Fly-in >"thunder in the Valley", held in Columbus GA. KR'ers in the Southeast can >make those and I'm sure others can make Fly-ins in their area. I have long been a proponent of different areas of the US hosting little regional get togethers for the KR. With that said, I would in no way present an idea that would negitively impact the national gathering. Several years ago I, along with Langford, floated an east coast get together in TN. The weather didn't cooperate (yes, this was in the summer) but we still had a great time. As for getting KRs out. It just seems KRs, as a whole, do not fly much. I say this knowing full well the core of the gatherings do fly and religously attend the national gathering, SNF and Oshkosh. Case in point, last week. The fly-in was publicized in the local paper, and around the nation on several lists. I had three formation groups attend, one that performs at Oshkosh, and one made up of current F-16 pilots. One of the Oshkosh group is still an F-16 pilot along with another who is a retired fighter jock under contract hauling troops back and forth from Kuwait. It was quite an interesting group and lots and lots of ideas floating around. Yes, composites were in attendance and "allowed" to park on the ramp:-) At noon I quit counting airplanes and we had 107 by then, with 90+ experimental. I don't know how many more we had attend but the ramp was double stacked full and the 1500'+ taxiway was wingtip to wingtip both sides the entire taxiway. As Eberhart he was there. How many KRs.........none. I have been contacted by the KY Aeronautical Council for my writeup for statewide distribution and by Sport Aviation for pictures. I tried very hard to give the KR pub. Is this spilled milk, NO, I had a great time met new friends and saw old friends. I have a feeling in the very near future we are going to see a rise in visability of another core of newly flying KRs that will populate the ramps at fly-ins but for now the KR is missing in action, as a whole. What a shame. Flame away, but talking an airplane doesn't put it out there for people to see. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive _________________________________________________________________ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 06:55:29 -0600 From: rhartwig11@juno.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Gatherings Message-ID: <20040307.065529.1856.2.rhartwig11@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 The Sport Aviation Association fly-in at Urbana, IL on June 11-13 would be another event for KR's to attend. Most of the planes are tube/wood and rag, but fiberglass is not verboten--In fact, Ron Scott gave a forum last year on his "Ironsides" which is a wood and fiberglass original design high wing. The SAA is an organization started by Paul Poberezny and a few friends and is dedicated to low cost, grassroots flying. The fly-in has no commercial booths. You can learn more about it at-- http://www.sportaviation.org/ Dick Hartwig Waunakee, WI rhartwig11@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:28:01 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>Larry's Lady II Message-ID: <000501c40448$07021570$7064a8c0@homedesktop> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040221205149.00802490@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 >>>> My stretch is over a standard KR2. All other dimensions are standard. This surprised me - somehow the dihedral break on your airplane is not as pronounced - almost looks like a constant dihedral all the way from the root out. Maybe just the pictures that I saw. >>>> Moving the HS and elevator forward did give me some additional area on the vertical stabilizer which I wanted with the 0-200. I have been staring at the pics hoping to figure this one out (and avoid asking)- trying to see the connection between moving the stab and more fin area. >>>> A couple more inches of width would be nice. I guess the two questions are: a) if we are not to fussy about the drag, what is ideal. B) at point are we compromising the structural integrity of the boat. I am headed for 1200mm (47.25"). Take care Steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 09:16:40 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Gatherings Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8 I guess while I venting about KRs showing their faces here's another one:-) Delete if you don't want to read on. Someone made a statement that KR drivers seems to feel overwhelmed by Sun & Fun and Oshkosh. I have heard this throughout the years. How did this feeling come to fruition? Was it actual or just perceived? Is it something that happened 15 years ago? The dragonfly gang doesn't seem to feel this way, the ultralights certainly don't, other canarn drivers show up in masses, the............list goes on and on. Sun & Fun and Oshkosh provide the KR with the same parking arrangements as others get. It's own row. My own personnal feeling is you need to get these things out for the masses to see. Rand Robinson has given up the ship in not attending Sun & Fun and Oshkosh so it is up to you guys to keep the airplane out in the public. If is furthur my opinion, without the KRNet the KR would have died a slow death. Like I said before, flame on but I am still a strong supporter of the KR and will continue to be so. It is just frustrating when you try to do something and get no support.......just whining and woies me's. You can only beat your head on the wall so many times before you either see stars or see the light and say screw it. Sorry for the waste of space, no I take that back, I'm not sorry. I wouldn't have said it if I thought anything otherwise. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar – includes FREE pop-up blocking! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:31:46 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "Dana Overall" Cc: "KRNET" Subject: RE: KR>Gatherings and No Shows.... Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Sometimes, when people don't have an answer, they make one up. I see no reason for the poor showing of KR2s at major events. Maybe because they can't carry a big enough tent? Anyway, what about people who paint their airplanes black; maybe that's it. ;o) Anyway, nice job on the airplane picnic. That kind of effort should be rewarded with more than an ATTABOY, but that's all I have here handy. BTW, selling in pieces on eBay netted a couple of thousand extra, and was very interesting. Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dana Overall Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:17 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Gatherings I guess while I venting about KRs showing their faces here's another one:-) Delete if you don't want to read on. Someone made a statement that KR drivers seems to feel overwhelmed by Sun & Fun and Oshkosh. I have heard this throughout the years. How did this feeling come to fruition? Was it actual or just perceived? Is it something that happened 15 years ago? The dragonfly gang doesn't seem to feel this way, the ultralights certainly don't, other canarn drivers show up in masses, the............list goes on and on. Sun & Fun and Oshkosh provide the KR with the same parking arrangements as others get. It's own row. My own personnal feeling is you need to get these things out for the masses to see. Rand Robinson has given up the ship in not attending Sun & Fun and Oshkosh so it is up to you guys to keep the airplane out in the public. If is furthur my opinion, without the KRNet the KR would have died a slow death. Like I said before, flame on but I am still a strong supporter of the KR and will continue to be so. It is just frustrating when you try to do something and get no support.......just whining and woies me's. You can only beat your head on the wall so many times before you either see stars or see the light and say screw it. Sorry for the waste of space, no I take that back, I'm not sorry. I wouldn't have said it if I thought anything otherwise. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar - includes FREE pop-up blocking! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:40:45 +0000 From: To: Subject: KR>Template error? Message-ID: <200403071439.i27EdLbe065494@mxsf04.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 I noticed that the wing templates I downloaded for the AS5048/5 has a tip template for the 140.75" location which is labeled AS5048/6. Did I get the wrong drawings? I plan on using the AS5048/5 wing. Steven Phillabaum Auburn, AL. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:02:10 +0000 From: To: Subject: KR>spar cap width Message-ID: <200403071500.i27F0kOk049815@mxsf07.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Good morning. I looked in the KR Archive and did not find my answer. Is the Spar caps the same width on the new wing (AS5048/5) as the wing with the plans? Should I change my spruce order other than the basic order for the KR2S? Steven Phillabaum Auburn, AL. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 09:26:41 -0600 From: ejanssen@chipsnet.com (Ed Janssen) To: "KRnet" Subject: SAA Fly-In; Re: KR>Gatherings Message-ID: <002701c40458$97a96230$8d00a8c0@dad> References: <20040307.065529.1856.2.rhartwig11@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Dick makes a good point in suggesting this fly-in. I think Mark Langford will attest to this also, as he attended last year. Urbana is roughly in the center of IL. Frasca simulator plant (they provide tours) is on the field, as well as a very nice museum. Real grass roots flying. Lots of hanger talk. About the only speedy homebuilts attending last year were a bunch of tailwinds and a couple RVs. A nice variety of other slower homebuilts were there also - Piets, etc. At this point in time, the SAA organization is not too big and is non-commercial. William had a Corvair seminar as well. Paul Poberezny was even out helping mow the grass. :o) It'd be great to see a formation of KRs coming in. Ed Janssen mailto:ejanssen@chipsnet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:55 AM Subject: KR>Gatherings > The Sport Aviation Association fly-in at Urbana, IL on June 11-13 would > be another event for KR's to attend. Most of the planes are tube/wood > and rag, but fiberglass is not verboten--In fact, Ron Scott gave a forum > last year on his "Ironsides" which is a wood and fiberglass original > design high wing. The SAA is an organization started by Paul Poberezny > and a few friends and is dedicated to low cost, grassroots flying. The > fly-in has no commercial booths. You can learn more about it at-- > http://www.sportaviation.org/ > Dick Hartwig > Waunakee, WI > rhartwig11@juno.com > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:52:47 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Template error? Message-ID: <077901c40464$9f134f20$1202a8c0@basement> References: <200403071439.i27EdLbe065494@mxsf04.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Steven Phillabaum wrote: > I noticed that the wing templates I downloaded for the AS5048/5 has a > tip template for the 140.75" location which is labeled AS5048/6. Did I get the wrong drawings? I plan on using the AS5048/5 wing.< Error? Who, me? If it's posted on the web, it must be right! There's only one version of the wing that's a hybrid between AS5048 and AS5045 (or AS5046, whatever), so you've got what you need. The reason I call these things several different names is that I originally used an AS5045 as the spar tip rib, but by the time you get done with the foam extension, you're pretty close to an AS5044. The last digit of the airfoil is the ratio of the thickness to the chord, but with the ten left out (I didn't name it, so don't blame me), so the AS5045 is a 15% airfoil and the AS5048 is an 18% airfoil. It bothered me a little that the tip wasn't an honest 15% tip, so I redid it so that the real tip (140.75") really IS an AS5045, and the spar tip rib is something closer to an AS5046. Got it? The bottom line is that regardless of what it's called, there's only one version of that implementation of the "new wing" published to the web, and you've got it, so get back to work! Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:58:59 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>spar cap width Message-ID: <077f01c40465$7ca28450$1202a8c0@basement> References: <200403071500.i27F0kOk049815@mxsf07.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Steven Phillabaum wrote: > Is the Spar caps the same width on the new wing (AS5048/5) as the wing with the plans? Should I change my spruce order other than the basic order for the KR2S?< Spar caps are made from the same wood. If anything, you might need a little more of the spacer material between the caps, but I doubt it, and if you need it, it won't be much and you can get it in two days from Wicks in a very small box. One difference in the AS5048/15 (or whatever we want to call it) is that those pieces have to be tapered, unlike the plans version. This optimizes the wing strength to weight ratio, but makes construction a little more difficult, because those vertical members are going to want to keep sliding around while they cure. You'll need to screw a block down to the table (or figure some other way) to keep them from sliding around before the T-88 cures. One other thing is that if you're planning on using the Diehl gear, go ahead and put some solid spruce stringers in between the caps at the point where the gear attach fitting goes, but I think that's mentioned in the instructions at http://www.krnet.org/as504x/as5046inst.html . Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:37:13 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Gatherings Message-ID: <404B6BD9.000008.02764@Computer> References: <20040307.065529.1856.2.rhartwig11@juno.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 15 There is also another great little fly-in coming to Lumberton NC, up near Jack Cooper, around May 15th. I'll be there and if the WannaBee, CouldBee= , it WouldBee. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:07:05 -0600 From: "Larry A Capps" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>Gatherings - wakeup call Message-ID: <000101c40477$61f3e650$0700a8c0@schpankme> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Do what others Do (lead by example ?), dump your - KR project - and build an unrelated aluminum homebuilt called the RV. Then, post how great this aluminum bird is to put together here on the KRNet and then ridicule those for not more aggressively supporting the KR - i.e. putting your money where your mouth is. The reason more people aren't building KRs is because there is NO definitive KR design to build. To participate on this group you need a slide rule and the ability to design. Very few people are willing to do that, most would prefer to take a proven design and duplicate it. In order to get more KRs into circulation the die needs to be cast, which is required of any good design (where the hell is that cooking cutter). Lets look at facts: - The KR-2 weighs 450 lbs empty - The KR-2S weighs 550 lbs empty - The ELF, wizbang, or what ever you want to call the current List Design weighs 700+ lbs empty. Builders there ain't no plans for this bird, your on your own. Of course some enterprising feller might come up with a set of plans you can build from, until then your living in a fantasy world if you think your going to start and complete something without a road map. Regards, Larry A Capps Naperville, IL -----Original Message----- I guess while I'm venting My own personnal feeling is you need to get these things out for the masses to see. It is just frustrating when you try to do something and get no support .......just whining and woies me's. Sorry for the waste of space, no I take that back, I'm not sorry. I wouldn't have said it if I thought anything otherwise. Dana Overall ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 13:37:37 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRNet" Subject: KR>KR1-B wakeup call Message-ID: <001501c4047b$a5da6b60$2502a8c0@800Athlon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 NetHeads, I guess it's obvious from my recent posts that I've been thinking about the KR1-B Motorglider. One of the things I asked my FSDO rep a few weeks ago was "what defines whether an aircraft is a motorglider or not?". He didn't know, but when I offered up the formula that I mentioned a few weeks ago (ratio of empty weight divided by wingspan squared < .62) he said he'd never seen it, but it sounded good to him. He also said "if the plans maker calls it a motorglider, that just about clinches it". Keep in mind that the whole point of this exercise was the fact that you don't have to have a medical to fly a "powered glider", which is exactly what the KR1-B Motorglider is, by definition. What got me going on this was an article about the new Sonex motorglider in a recent magazine, where the author says he built it purely as an endrun around the medical, and it worked! Dana (or somebody) mentioned that some kind of paperwork would almost certainly be required. I'd think that somebody that knows they can't get a medical, but dearly wants to fly, would have the determination to be the first to prove the point by doing whatever it takes to get a KR1-B signed off as a motorglider. William Wynne mentioned yesterday that two British builders had become the first homebuilders (or even manufacturers) to get approval to fly a plane with only one set of spark plugs in their country. They did the research, proved that it was being done elsewhere, provided the necessary paperwork, and accomplished their mission. I think the KR1-B could be done the same way, although there may not be a problem at all with it, given the fact that one has already been built and flown, and it was 30 years ago. Going by what my FSDO said, I'll bet I could build one and fly it with no medical, no questions asked, but you definitely ought to check with your FSDO first. So, given the above info, I ordered a set of KR1-B plans myself last month, and got them yesterday. They are $35, plus $5 shipping from Rand Robinson. They include an instruction sheet and five large drawings. I've always wondered about the details, and found precious little information about them, and nobody willing to share much (more than a few words at a time). I also bought a set of never-used KR1 plans from Royce in South Africa, so I may be one of the few clowns that owns a full set of KR plans. My 1-B plans are number 411, which is, oddly enough, the number for "information". Here's the deal. A standard KR1 is where you start. You can buy one already built, and just build a new set of wings for it. It's probably based on a 1600cc VW engine, but an 1835cc is practically the same weight. Spars and RAF48 airfoil are the same as the KR1's stub wings, so you don't have to change a thing on the KR1 except add a flap handle if it doesn't have one. The new wings have an 8" transition from the stub wings' RAF48 to the -B's GA(W)-1 airfoil, and spars that are about 120" long, but thicker front to back. Construction is pretty much the same, with the exception of huge flaps and ailerons that look a lot like the ones on my KR2S, all located in the outer wings. Aileron actuation is by the stock bellcrank system, and then an "extender" pushrod running out to the start of the ailerons, and a new bellcrank out there. Flap extension is almost exactly like what I'm doing, except there's also a piano hinge added between the big hinge brackets. The neatest thing about the KR1-B wing is the flaps. They are a combination of flaps and spoilers, made possible by a very simple arrangement of the flap hinge pivot line. It's hard to explain, but the hinge line is at the bottom, and the gap to the top of the airfoil surface extends way forward, so that when the flaps go down, the top of the flap sticks up into the slipstream, and spoils the lift. Sort of like an upside down Frise aileron, but with a sharp edge rather than a rounded nose. I just love this concept, and it's so easy to do! Talk about glide control! See the info sheet at http://www.krnet.org/kr1binfo1.pdf for a few more details, and note the 38 mph stall speed (with flaps). And wouldn't that get you into the Sport Pilot category (yes, we've beat the Sport Pilot/medical horse already)? It should be noted that if you use the formula mentioned, you must keep the plane as light as humanly possible to keep it under .62, and in fact, I'd add a few more inches to the span for insurance. I asked Jeannette why she didn't even mention the KR1-B on her web page, and she said it was because it lived in a bit of a gray area and she wasn't sure if the FAA would look "askance" at somebody building one as a medical dodger. Judging from why my FSDO told me, that wouldn't be a problem for ME. I would think that a call to your FSDO would answer that question for YOU. So, you guys that are worried about your medicals, start looking for a used KR1 and build yourself some wings! Gotta go put the washing machine back together... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 333, Issue 1 ************************************* ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================