From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 345, Issue 2 Date: 3/19/2004 10:36:37 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Balancing (Allen G. Wiesner) 2. Re: Balancing (Dean Cooper) 3. supplier accolades (j stevens) 4. Aileron Balancing and balancing other surfaces (Dan Heath) 5. Re: Balancing (Ross Youngblood) 6. FUD and the elevator counterweight. (Ross Youngblood) 7. Aileron balancing (Martindale Family) 8. Re: Nyloseal fittings 9. Re: Joe C. (joe) 10. Re: Nyloseal fittings (Phillip Matheson) 11. KRnet sticker update (Mark Langford) 12. Re: KRnet sticker update (Mark Langford) 13. Re:Balancing (Allen G. Wiesner) 14. Re:balancing (Allen G. Wiesner) 15. Re: Re:KR>Balancing (Mark Langford) 16. Original bellcrank lacking (Steve and Lori McGee) 17. Re: Re:KR>Balancing (Orma Robbins) 18. Condition inspection/ Engine rebuild (Orma Robbins) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:59:34 -0500 From: "Allen G. Wiesner" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Balancing Message-ID: <005401c40dec$b3ba4af0$d512da42@CPQ25208480116> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 >Also... from preflighting lots of C-152's you can see that Cessna uses >small spanwise triangular weights just FWD of the hinge line. This is much > more attractive than our giant lead arm... but weighs more. > > Ross, Netters: > > Along the same lines and stealing from Tony's books, I was thinking = about > this design: http://www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/Aileron_Balance.html While the idea of the Cessna style spanwise weights (which are also on C-170/172's) has merit and the web site seems to be the same idea it is = a lousy drawing - no allowance for down deflection of the aileron. As for = the total amount of weight, is anyone at the aileron balancing stage? If = so, try taping a mess of electrical solder in long runs to see how much it = takes (or plumbers' bar solder, if it can be found in strips that are narrow enough [remember, down deflection clearance]). Another possibility, if = you are a shooter, would be a row of ?.22 or .30 cal. cast lead slugs. If = it does work without too much weight penalty, then continuous lead wire = from Corbin in the approiate size could be epoxied to the bottom leading edge = of the aileron. As an extra benefit, it would also provide a rounded edge = to interface with a gap seal. Allen G. Wiesner KR-2S/TD S/N 1118 65 Franklin Street Ansonia, CT 06401 (203) 732-0508 flashyal@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:12:12 -0500 From: "Dean Cooper" To: "Allen G. Wiesner" , "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Balancing Message-ID: <049001c40dee$775233f0$0502a8c0@office> References: <000601c40c4b$dae2e580$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><5.2.1.1.0.20040318133002.028352d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com><045101c40dcd$f4f57400$0502a8c0@office> <002101c40de9$e6d53510$d512da42@CPQ25208480116> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Allen wrote: >...it is a lousy drawing - no allowance for down deflection of the >aileron. Allen, The only allowance necessary is the 1/4" or so created by inserting the hinge between the two pieces of spruce (see page 88 - Drawing 71 of the KR2 Plans). Keep in mind the down deflection is only 10 degrees, which may not even need the full 1/4" gap. I realize the drawing is not necessarily drawn to scale, but it is materially correct and was a visual I threw together to demonstrate the idea. Certainly, adjustments may be needed to actually install. With that said, I would like to hear from anyone that can test your idea with the solder to understand the weight difference. Thanks. Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:25:23 -0600 From: j stevens To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>supplier accolades Message-ID: <405B5733.5000005@usfamily.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Hi all don't know if I already gave this info but I just have to mention THE REAL SOURCE,. These people provide a great source for VW parts . There shipping is fast and the service exceptional. I ordered a set of spring loaded push rod covers (nylon), didn not feel 100% about the thinness of the covers, sent it back and exchanged them for the gold anodize aluminum spring loaded covers (which are beautiful). Even thought it was no fault of theirs they gave me a $20 discount on a $50 item and did not charge for the return shipping.!!! Just had to pass that along. Their web address is: www.800luvbugg.com 1-800-luv-bugg Joel ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:32:29 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>Aileron Balancing and balancing other surfaces Message-ID: <405B58DD.000008.02612@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Get your flame throwers ready. First, how many of you have ever seen a KR and thought, when you looked at it, "what ugly aileron balancing, that is". Anyone? I thought so. I have been to several gatherings and seen quite a few KRs and I can't recall ever thinking anything about the aileron balance weight, until Jim Faughn dropped one last year. Even then, my thoughts were not about, ugly or not, but about safety. I look at pictures of the Little Beast that I used to have and never see those things. If you are willing to add even 1 pound to your plane ( flames now ), for this purpose, I think you are making a big mistake. Now really get your flames ready. While I don't believe that the plans are sacred" or anything like that, I do know that there have been, and are, a lot of KRs flying that have never had balance on the other surfaces. If I were to add an engine heavier and more powerful than the 2180VW, then I would balance them. I don't care what anyone says... a pound of extra weight on that tail, is a lot of weight to counter balance. If you have the engine for it, cool, but if you don't, use good sense, think about it and be sure it is worth the penalty that you will be paying. We used to have a saying in the computer services business when IBM was the only thing that executives would buy. FUD, Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. That is what IBM tried to throw in the faces of executives to get them to buy their product, and it worked. The only reason that I am standing up to the heat is because, it is too easy to fall into FUD when reading all the stuff that comes over this NET. Great stuff, but think about it all, and make good decisions. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:14:57 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Balancing Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <045101c40dcd$f4f57400$0502a8c0@office> References: <000601c40c4b$dae2e580$ba21f218@hot.rr.com><5.2.1.1.0.20040318133002.028352d0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <045101c40dcd$f4f57400$0502a8c0@office> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 5 I reallly like that design... it's elegant! It will be heavier as the moment arm is shorter... but it is elegant. In my case... I ended up making my ailerons so heavy, that if I re-did them and used your design, it would still be lighter than my current ailerons...(possible summer project). -- Ross On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:19:29 -0500, Dean Cooper wrote: > Ross wrote: > >> Also... from preflighting lots of C-152's you can see that Cessna >> uses > small spanwise triangular weights just FWD of the hinge line. This is > much > more attractive than our giant lead arm... but weighs more. > > > Ross, Netters: > > Along the same lines and stealing from Tony's books, I was thinking > about this design: > http://www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/Aileron_Balance.html > > But, didn't know how much extra weight it would require or what the > offset > in less drag would be (in addition to the reduced risk of falling off > :-) > > Any thoughts on this design? > > Dean Cooper > Jacksonville, FL > Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net > See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:21:07 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood To: KRnet Subject: KR>FUD and the elevator counterweight. Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <405B58DD.000008.02612@COMPUTER> References: <405B58DD.000008.02612@COMPUTER> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Love the remark about FUD... I think there is a lot of FUD with respect to elevator counter balancing. I note folks talking about adding XX larger engines, and that somehow the KR will cruise at 210Kts or somthing. I think that as you increase airspeed drag goes up by a cube so as we try to squeek another 5-10 knots of cruise, it gets more and more difficult. Are there a lot of KR's crusing close to the 190Mph Vne? I would expect that adding counterweights might do more to help the drag side of the equation, keeping the plane slower, so you can't get near a flutter condition. Rather than actually dampen any harmonic oscillations... which is what flutter is... a harmonic oscillation. -- Ross > We used to have a saying in the computer services business when IBM > was > the > only thing that executives would buy. FUD, Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. > That is what IBM tried to throw in the faces of executives to get them to > buy their product, and it worked. > > The only reason that I am standing up to the heat is because, it is > too > easy > to fall into FUD when reading all the stuff that comes over this NET. > Great > stuff, but think about it all, and make good decisions. > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > DanRH@KR-Builder.org > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > > See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:04:31 +1100 From: "Martindale Family" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Aileron balancing Message-ID: <003e01c40dfe$3e0fe5a0$75a0fea9@athlon2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 Folks You cannot balance with lead strips along the leading edge of the = aileron because the piano hinge is mounted at the very front along the = top edge. There must be a weighted arm somewhere that protudes forward = of the hinge and the longer you can make it the lighter it can be. Mine is per the plans but made of steel and doubled over both sides of = the aileron spruce front face. The weight is tapered along the arm with = most as close to the rear spar as possible. Even so, I was surprised how = much was needed. If you ran the ailerons right out to the wing tip you = could maybe use a longer horn running forward along the tip and save = some weight Bear in mind that the arm and weight per the plans normally tucks flush = in the wing and causes no drag. There is some drag as it lowers in a = turn but you could argue that it assists in keeping the turn balanced. I = think in reality the drag is titchy given the small aileron movement = needed. I reckon the plan way is the simplest. To provide sufficient = space at the hinge for down displacement of the aileron just glass in = the aileron spruce front edge back at a slight angle relative to the = rear spar. Ron F, re the vacuum fittings. Despite their quality ? the parts I used = are cheap as is the tube. Cost is not really a factor although I do = appreciate your concern. I'm just curious as to how the manufacturer = intended this new design to come apart....maybe it don't and we go the = disposable razor path. Ron B, thanks for the site. There is apparently about one thread = difference in 22 over an inch and the thread angle is 55 degrees versus = 60. For the 1/8" fittings that are about 1/4 inch long I reckon they are = almost interchangeable using a tad of teflon.....OK OK.....I know bad = practice and I wouldn't do it....but... See Ya John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjane@chc.net.auFrom taildrags@hotmail.com Fri Mar 19 15:09:01 2004 Received: from sea2-f16.sea2.hotmail.com ([207.68.165.16] helo=hotmail.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B4T6r-000GOy-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:09:01 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:01:47 -0800 Received: from 129.162.1.32 by sea2fd.sea2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:01:47 GMT X-Originating-IP: [129.162.1.32] X-Originating-Email: [taildrags@hotmail.com] X-Sender: taildrags@hotmail.com From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: krnet@mylist.net Bcc: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:01:47 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Mar 2004 23:01:47.0907 (UTC) FILETIME=[28212530:01C40E06] Subject: KR>aerial photo- off topic X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Netters; It being "open line Friday", here's an item of passing interest. Paul Martin, former KR2 owner, took some really nice pictures of Wizard Island at Crater Lake. One nice one is at http://www.flysquirrel.net/WizardWeb.jpg Also, Paul and Linda are the proud parents of a new baby girl, Serena, born March 2. Paul should have her soloed in his Tri-Pacer in a few years, and gee- I wonder where they're going to put Serena with their two Samoyeds in the back seat of the Tripe? ;o) do not archive Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:22:50 EST From: TNCOMPRESSORMAN@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Nyloseal fittings Message-ID: <194.263753d7.2d8cdaca@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 In a message dated 3/19/2004 2:59:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, johnjane@chc.net.au writes: > 1) What is the secret in removing the tube from these new fangled > fittings? > 2) Do not use them in vacuum situations? > > I think you are describing "push lok" fittings, it has a fitting with a collar on the end and are available in a variety of materials / pressure ratings. we happen to use quite a few of these at work for pneumatic control lines. To remove the tubing simply push the tube and the collar in together then continue to hold the collar while you withdraw the tubing. Probably will be very difficult if you are using the opaque polyflow? tubing, as it is extremely soft,works very well with synflex air brake line. They will work for vacuum, but minor leaks are probable because pressure increases both the crush of the oring and grip of the teeth. Hope this helps. Riley Collins tncompressorman@aol.com rcollins64@hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:08:28 -0800 From: "joe" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Joe C. Message-ID: <001301c40e0f$792ce460$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> References: <20040318231721.HNFG673.fed1mtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Thanks Ron. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:17 PM Subject: KR>Joe C. > I demand to see a birth certificate. Otherwise, how do I really know > that you are Joe C.? > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:22:03 +1100 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Nyloseal fittings Message-ID: <002f01c40e11$5f0d3330$8297dccb@StationW2k04> References: <001701c40d87$b5133f20$75a0fea9@athlon2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 John Check out your local Auto Elect Shop, or speed shop, you will should be able to buy all these fittings locally. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:51:58 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>KRnet sticker update Message-ID: <01a801c40e26$4ff13350$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 KRnetHeads, I have a little more info on the KRnet stickers, although I don't have a = picture that I can show you yet. Orma Robbins and Joe Horton did a lot = of legwork and got pricing and even samples, but in the end I decided on = a local establishment because they seemed a little more flexible and = gave me exactly what I wanted.=20 Up to now we have orders for 120 stickers, so a 250 sticker minimum = would have meant no profit and a big pile of leftover stickers. The = local folks will make exactly the number I request and charge me a = dollar per sticker. And the good news is they'll make them oval shaped, = which will mean larger stickers for cheaper. I ended up opting for a = white background rather than clear so they will show up better on dark = surfaces, and they're a lot cheaper. They will be approximately 3.7" = wide by 3" tall. I have a nice stack of self-addressed stamped = enveloped ready to be stuffed. I'm waiting for proofs (Monday) and then = I should have them by the end of next week and have them on their way. Since I only have to order an exact amount, this means that if you want = them, you need to order them in the next couple of days or they'll be = "out of print". There won't be any left for the straglers. With only = selling 120, there will only be enough money to buy about one prop, but = I guess that's just the way it goes. Ordering info is REposted below: --------------------------------------------- Somebody brought up the idea of selling KRnet stickers a few weeks ago = to finance KRnet, help with the Gathering if needed, and finance a "KR prop rental" program. Best of all, we'd all end up with KRnet stickers! = Several folks have looked into having them made, and we're still working on that (anybody that has a line on sticker-making-for-cheap is welcome to = contact me). By the way, the original logo was dreamed up by Oscar Zuniga, and actually created by former member Robert Covington. I think we're far enough along that we need to know how many of these = things we're going to need to order. The best way I can think of to do that is = to let y"all order them, and then we'll know. You need to go through the online ordering process even if you send a check, just so we can capture = the quantity we're going to need. Bob Lee has conjured up a web page to let = you do that. Please pay attention and answer the questions, check the = boxes, and do it right to make sure everything works correctly. One thing I thought of (actually my wife thought of it) that would make = this a lot easier on me is if most everybody ordering would pay by check and = send a self addressed stamped envelope with their order. This would make it = very easy to open an envelope, look at the check, stuff stickers in the SASE, = and go to the next one. If you do that, I don't even think I'll have to use = the "envelope stuffer" volunteers. I'll still take Paypal, but that costs money, and it would allow me to screw up your address between my = computer and an envelope, and would be a lot more work. You'll see on Bob's = ordering page that there's a one dollar incentive to just send the self addressed stamped envelope with your check. As far as accountability, you're just going to have to trust me to do the right thing and keep up with it. = Then again, I may only get five orders and nobody will have to worry about! You can see the logo, and place your order, at http://krgathering.org/KRnet/KRnet_pro_shop_order.htm . We'll let it go = for about a week before we'll call it "done", and then we'll place our order with the vendor. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:31:10 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>KRnet sticker update Message-ID: <01e701c40e2b$c9fcff80$1202a8c0@basement> References: <01a801c40e26$4ff13350$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 OK, now I've got 7 private emails wondering how to order stickers. Just go back and read my message from a few minutes ago and it tells you how to order stickers. I reposted it because I didn't want to have to type it all over again, much less 7 times over again! Or, if you can't handle that, it's enclosed again below... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: KR>KRnet sticker update > KRnetHeads, > > I have a little more info on the KRnet stickers, although I don't have > a picture that I can show you yet. Orma Robbins and Joe Horton did a lot of legwork and got pricing and even samples, but in the end I decided on a local establishment because they seemed a little more flexible and gave me exactly what I wanted. > > Up to now we have orders for 120 stickers, so a 250 sticker minimum > would have meant no profit and a big pile of leftover stickers. The local folks will make exactly the number I request and charge me a dollar per sticker. And the good news is they'll make them oval shaped, which will mean larger stickers for cheaper. I ended up opting for a white background rather than clear so they will show up better on dark surfaces, and they're a lot cheaper. They will be approximately 3.7" wide by 3" tall. I have a nice stack of self-addressed stamped enveloped ready to be stuffed. I'm waiting for proofs (Monday) and then I should have them by the end of next week and have them on their way. > > Since I only have to order an exact amount, this means that if you > want them, you need to order them in the next couple of days or they'll be "out of print". There won't be any left for the straglers. With only selling 120, there will only be enough money to buy about one prop, but I guess that's just the way it goes. Ordering info is REposted below: > > --------------------------------------------- > > Somebody brought up the idea of selling KRnet stickers a few weeks ago > to finance KRnet, help with the Gathering if needed, and finance a "KR > prop rental" program. Best of all, we'd all end up with KRnet > stickers! Several > folks have looked into having them made, and we're still working on > that (anybody that has a line on sticker-making-for-cheap is welcome > to contact me). By the way, the original logo was dreamed up by Oscar > Zuniga, and actually created by former member Robert Covington. > > I think we're far enough along that we need to know how many of these things > we're going to need to order. The best way I can think of to do that > is to > let y"all order them, and then we'll know. You need to go through the > online ordering process even if you send a check, just so we can > capture the > quantity we're going to need. Bob Lee has conjured up a web page to > let you > do that. Please pay attention and answer the questions, check the > boxes, and do it right to make sure everything works correctly. > > One thing I thought of (actually my wife thought of it) that would > make this > a lot easier on me is if most everybody ordering would pay by check > and send > a self addressed stamped envelope with their order. This would make > it very > easy to open an envelope, look at the check, stuff stickers in the > SASE, and > go to the next one. If you do that, I don't even think I'll have to > use the > "envelope stuffer" volunteers. I'll still take Paypal, but that costs > money, and it would allow me to screw up your address between my > computer and an envelope, and would be a lot more work. You'll see on > Bob's ordering > page that there's a one dollar incentive to just send the self > addressed stamped envelope with your check. As far as accountability, > you're just going to have to trust me to do the right thing and keep > up with it. Then again, I may only get five orders and nobody will > have to worry about! > > You can see the logo, and place your order, at > http://krgathering.org/KRnet/KRnet_pro_shop_order.htm . We'll let it > go for > about a week before we'll call it "done", and then we'll place our > order with the vendor. > > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > N56ML "at" hiwaay.net > see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:40:07 -0500 From: "Allen G. Wiesner" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re:KR>Balancing Message-ID: <008e01c40e2d$5cdb9c70$d512da42@CPQ25208480116> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 13 >Aren't fishing weights cheaper then bullets? >The only allowance necessary is the 1/4" or so created by inserting the >hinge between the two pieces of spruce (see page 88 - Drawing 71 of the >= K2 >Plans). Keep in mind the down deflection is only 10 degrees, which may >= not >even need the full 1/4" gap.=20 As for fishing weights being cheaper, it depends, but they are a lousy = shape, unless you are talking about "split shot" which are very = expensive per each in comparison with buck shot. The only problem is = that the buck shot has to be bought in 10 or 25 lb. bags. If the lead = is scrounged from old buildings, flashing etc. and/or wheel weights from = a tire shop it's literally dirt cheap; OTOH, pure lead wire from Corbin = is $20.00 per 10 LB. spool, dia. from .125' to .440" in several sizes. = Probably the easiest way to create a strip would be to cast one (or two) = inside a long (6'?) piece of 1" ALUMINUM "U" channel. Dean: don't get me wrong, I still think it's a neat and elegant idea; = BUT ... The aileron gap cutback per the KR-2 manual (page 88) is 1/2", which I = work out to be 12 degrees. So the only space available is the thickness = of the hinge material plus about 0.080" (2 deg.). However, as I see it, = there is nothing preventing a new construction spar being angled at 15 = or 20 degrees. The question is, would that be enough to allow for the = necessary amount of weight? Probably a gap seal wouldn't hurt either. As for some general numbers, lead weighs 0.4097 lbs/cu.in., so 6' x 3/4" = (the inside dims. of 1"x 1/8" "U" channel) x 1/4" would be 5.5 lbs., = 3/8" would be 8.3 lbs., etc.; and 0.440" round lead wire would be = approximately 4.3 lbs. per 6' strip. Allen G. Wiesner KR-2S/TG S/N 1118 65 Franklin Street Ansonia, CT 06401 (203) 732-0508 flashyal@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:00:20 -0500 From: "Allen G. Wiesner" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re:KR>balancing Message-ID: <011101c40e30$5bb08290$d512da42@CPQ25208480116> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 14 >Aren't fishing weights cheaper then bullets? >The only allowance necessary is the 1/4" or so created by inserting the >hinge between the two pieces of spruce (see page 88 - Drawing 71 of the >= K2 >Plans). Keep in mind the down deflection is only 10 degrees, which may >= not >even need the full 1/4" gap.=20 As for fishing weights being cheaper, it depends, but they are a lousy = shape, unless you are talking about "split shot" which are very = expensive per each in comparison with buck shot. The only problem is = that the buck shot has to be bought in 10 or 25 lb. bags. If the lead = is scrounged from old buildings, flashing etc. and/or wheel weights from = a tire shop it's literally dirt cheap; OTOH, pure lead wire from Corbin = is $20.00 per 10 LB. spool, dia. from .125' to .440" in several sizes. = Probably the easiest way to create a strip would be to cast one (or two) = inside a long (6'?) piece of 1" ALUMINUM "U" channel. Dean: don't get me wrong, I still think it's a neat and elegant idea; = BUT ... The aileron gap cutback per the KR-2 manual (page 88) is 1/2", which I = work out to be 12 degrees. So the only space available is the thickness = of the hinge material plus about 0.080" (2 deg.). However, as I see it, = there is nothing preventing a new construction spar being angled at 15 = or 20 degrees. The question is, would that be enough to allow for the = necessary amount of weight? Probably a gap seal wouldn't hurt either. As for some general numbers, lead weighs 0.4097 lbs/cu.in., so 6' x 3/4" = (the inside dims. of 1"x 1/8" "U" channel) x 1/4" would be 5.5 lbs., = 3/8" would be 8.3 lbs., etc.; and 0.440" round lead wire would be = approximately 4.3 lbs. per 6' strip. Allen G. Wiesner KR-2S/TG S/N 1118 65 Franklin Street Ansonia, CT 06401 (203) 732-0508 flashyal@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:36:29 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: Re:KR>Balancing Message-ID: <020101c40e34$ea19bca0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <008e01c40e2d$5cdb9c70$d512da42@CPQ25208480116> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 My aileron counterweights are 3/4" thinwall 4130 tubing filled with lead. It was awfully easy to pick up a pile of free tire weights at the Firestone store and melt them down in an old boiler on the hot plate. Takes a few minutes to melt them, ladle off the road scum on top, and then you've got yourself some fine looking FREE lead! Poured it into the end of the tubing (one end was stuck in a coffee can full of sand) and in a few minutes I had a nice leading edge aileron weight. One thing I'd do differently is pour some epoxy in the tube first, and tilt and rotate it so that there's a little epoxy to hold it in place. Otherwise when it cools off it will contract and slide around a little in there (kinda like mine did). My ailerons are different from everybody else's but use the weight in the nose principle that's been mentioned. I've never posted the photos, but I'm sure I have some somewhere and will post them after my plane is flying. There IS a little image of the aileron before I built it at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/frise.jpg , which shows a counterweight in the nose, but it turned out round and with no support other than the foam, plywood ribs, and carbon nose. I also have a photo of the ailerons somewhere, but just spent twenty minutes searching for it and finally gave up. Each aileron needed 25" of this tubing/lead stuff, and ended up weighing 3.5 pounds each. The weight is evenly distributed and support directly by the ribs and carbon fiber nose and end caps, which is better than a point load for the purists among us. Installing these things was a pure joy, and far simpler than I'd ever dreamed. I just built the ailerons as if they had no weights, then bored out the leading edge with a spade bit mounted on two 18" extensions and epoxied it in place, sealing it in with a carbon fiber plug on the end cap. Just to prove that I'm anal retentive, I encased them in shrink tubing to eliminate the possibilty of galvanic corrosion eating it's way through the carbon fiber. I can't see these things ever falling out. I'll post details one of these days. Getting ready for some more Champ taildragger touch and goes tomorrow... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 23:43:20 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Subject: KR>Original bellcrank lacking Message-ID: <000a01c40e3e$407afe20$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 16 I am making my own design as I am using push tubes rather than cables. = In starting the drawings in autocad I began with the original dimensions = as I figured they would be close. By my calculations the original = design can not attain the 10 degree down aileron without hitting and = binding. This must be what you guys have been talking about lately. Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:05:26 -0500 From: "Orma Robbins" To: "Allen G. Wiesner" , "KRnet" Subject: Re: Re:KR>Balancing Message-ID: <001c01c40e41$58054520$422ed445@ROBBINS1> References: <008e01c40e2d$5cdb9c70$d512da42@CPQ25208480116> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 literally dirt cheap If you want lead real cheap, then go the the local gas station and pick up an old battery. drain the acid, wash out the case, cut the case, take out the lead, melt it down, take out the bits you don't want and pour the molten lead into what ever shape you want. As a kid we used to make fishing weights. Caution, lead is poison. Breathing the fumes can cause brain damage. Rather then mess with old lead spend the money and buy the lead shot. handle with gloves. Orma L. Robbins Southfield MI 19 Years flying KR-2 N110LR http://www.aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:30:07 -0500 From: "Orma Robbins" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Condition inspection/ Engine rebuild Message-ID: <003301c40e44$caae6bd0$422ed445@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 18 Hi Net As part of my condition inspection, I tested my compressions on my type = 4, and not to my surprise, three of my cylinders are not leaking. two = have exhaust and one has blow by. The weakest cylinder is down to 68 = present. I have decided to open my case after almost 20 years. I plan = to have the crank polished and or ground and add new bearings. I plan = to change the cam to a new one which will reach peek torque at 3600 RPM. = My local expert tells me that it will be high lift and short duration. = The jury is still out on which cylinders I will install, I am leaning = toward either 103 or 105 mm. I have also started the process of having = some parts machined so that I can turbo charge the engine. My ultimate = goal is to achieve or exceed a minimum of 500 FPM climb rate at a gross = weight of 1050 which is my certified gross. I will keep the net posted = as to progress or strange findings. Any comments or thoughts is as = always appreciated. If anyone has any sources for cylinders at = reasonable prices, let me know. Orma L. Robbins Southfield MI 19 Years flying KR-2 N110LR http://www.aviation-mechanics.com From cptcsd@npcc.net Fri Mar 19 22:43:40 2004 Received: from [66.170.44.31] (helo=localhost.localdomain) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1B4aCq-000LuP-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 22:43:40 -0800 Received: from ownerwam9o2stk ([65.209.137.130]) by localhost.localdomain (8.12.8/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2K6aEAW024990 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:36:27 -0500 From: "Rich Meyer" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: Re:KR>Balancing Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 01:36:19 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c40e45$a7e39a20$8289d141@ownerwam9o2stk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <020101c40e34$ea19bca0$1202a8c0@basement> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Sounds basically a good plan, Mark. A couple notes for others: 1. Take some care not to breathe the fumes when you play with melting lead. I know that inhaled is much worse on the brain cells than ingested (as from kids gnawing on windowsills painted with old lead-based paint), and this sounds like it might qualify as "inhaled." I melted lead like this long ago to cast a slug for a sailboat keel, and that's been my excuse in the years since. We don't need a bunch of KR pilots lowering their IQs. (Someone with medical expertise may correct me, but I'm going to keep using this excuse anyway.) 2. I doubt that pouring epoxy in the tube before pouring the molten lead in would have held it. In your case, you could just stick a drift punch to the lead after it has cooled, thump it once or twice with a hammer, repeat at the other end. Expanding the lead like that to the form tube it should grip tight. Or, use copper tubing for your form tube -- the lead will bond to that. 3. Thinwall 4130? I know one gets in the habit of using the lightest material that will work, but this is the obvious case when heavier is not bad. If you have that thinwall around and want to use it, fine, but wouldn't a length of 1/2" iron pipe have had more texture inside and out for bonding inside to lead or outside to carbon fiber? Iron a bit less dense than lead, you might have needed a few more inches total. 'Course, the iron pipe could rust, so . . . My choice would be copper tubing. Anything wrong with that, that I'm not seeing? Any other metal touching this? Rich Meyer Millersburg IN 46543 cptcsd@npcc.net -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Mark Langford My aileron counterweights are 3/4" thinwall 4130 tubing filled with lead. It was awfully easy to pick up a pile of free tire weights at the Firestone store and melt them down in an old boiler on the hot plate. Takes a few minutes to melt them, ladle off the road scum on top, and then you've got yourself some fine looking FREE lead! Poured it into the end of the tubing (one end was stuck in a coffee can full of sand) and in a few minutes I had a nice leading edge aileron weight. One thing I'd do differently is pour some epoxy in the tube first, and tilt and rotate it so that there's a little epoxy to hold it in place. Otherwise when it cools off it will contract and slide around a little in there (kinda like mine did). ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 345, Issue 2 ************************************* ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================