From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 101 Date: 6/10/2004 9:00:48 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. thrown plug (j stevens) 2. Spar lamination direction - Oops (Stephen Jacobs) 3. Re: LED Fitting Todds Dragonfly Canopy (Phil Matheson) 4. Fitting Todd's Dragonfly Canopy (Phil Matheson) 5. Fitting Todd's Dragonfly Canopy (Phil Matheson) 6. Thrown plug (Colin & Bev Rainey) 7. Re: bolts and screws into aluminum should be heli-coiled (Dan Heath) 8. Re: thrown plug (StRaNgEdAyS) 9. Re: Spar lamination direction - Oops (Mark Langford) 10. RE: Reduction Drive Unit/ Prop Clearance (Wood, Sidney M.) 11. RE: Fitting Todd's Dragonfly Canopy (Brian Kraut) 12. RE: Spar lamination direction - Oops (Brian Kraut) 13. Re: Re: bolts and screws into aluminum should be heli-coiled (rparker) 14. RE: Spar lamination direction - Oops (Stephen Jacobs) 15. anti-seize compound torque (Mark Langford) 16. Re: Fitting Todd's Dragonfly Canopy (Scott Cable) 17. 1600cc VW (joe_beyer@netzero.net) 18. Re: 1600cc VW (Dan Heath) 19. Wickes (Dan Heath) 20. RE: Thrown plug (Doug Rupert) 21. RE: Spar lamination direction - Oops (Donald Reid) 22. Re: Thrown plug (FIXERJONES@aol.com) 23. Re: Spar lamination direction - Oops (TNCOMPRESSORMAN@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:09:49 -0500 From: j stevens Subject: KR> thrown plug To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <40C7ED1D.5000409@usfamily.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I threw a plug the other day, I was told that all bolts and screws into aluminum should be heli-coiled, I want to put this out there as a heads up. The problem is that aluminum is so soft it vibrates plugs out very easily. Joel ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:24:05 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: KR>Spar lamination direction - Oops To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c44ebb$ed219b30$8064a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" His take on it is exactly that, it doesn't matter either way, but don't put a bolt through the glue line. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This would otherwise be my reaction as well - but I am forced to give the matter more thought. My centre section spar caps comprise 6mm (1/4") laminations to allow the dihedral bend - so there is no way to avoid the WAF bolts intersecting glue lines. If I use the RR design WAF - all the bolts will intersect the same lamination. I plan to have a longer centre section, so the spar is substantially thinner (in front view) at the WAF location - not much room to move around. I opted for 1/4" laminations as I figured this would be about right to accommodate the dihedral bend. My first reaction on seeing this post was to consider thicker laminations and resort to steaming as a means of achieving the radius. My second reaction was to re-read all my material on glue joints. Every indication is that a properly done glue joint is as at least as strong as the host material. A scarf joint is allowed in a wing spar (cap) according to AC43 - at an angle similar to the minimum spec on grain run-out within wood, suggesting that a glue line is at least as strong as nature's own laminations (wood-grain) - is this not the very reason that a laminated beam is seen to be stronger than a single piece of lumber (of the same size and wood)? The topic should be a head up in other ways as well when we drill holes in the spars for various other reasons - this will influence the main undercarriage location (under the spar or in front of the spar) to avoid drilling even larger holes through the laminations. These holes offer an even greater moment arm than the WAF's. Steve J Zambia ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:06:04 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: Re: KR>LED Fitting Todds Dragonfly Canopy To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000401c44ec2$02aadab0$1097dccb@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all. I have a new todds canopy, and have found it to be different to the Dragonfly Canopy that Mark L and Marl J have used, it is narrower , more pointed at the front, and I can see fund and games to cut and fit to the forward deck, Has any one out there fitted a Todds Dragonfly canopy to their KR,??? I would like some of your input, If it is not too much trouble I have been over the two Marks web pages, and still concerned. I think I may make a paper mash canopy over the new one, and practice on the brummy paper canopy first . Any comments welcome. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:48:05 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: KR> Fitting Todd's Dragonfly Canopy To: "KR Builder & Pilots" Message-ID: <005f01c44ec7$b854f350$4996dccb@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all. I'm getting an Internal error 500 from the archives SO I have a new todds canopy, and have found it to be different to the Dragonfly Canopy that Mark L and Marl J have used, it is narrower , more pointed at the front, and I can see fund and games to cut and fit to the forward deck, Has any one out there fitted a Todds Dragonfly canopy to their KR,??? I would like some of your input, If it is not too much trouble I have been over the two Marks web pages, and still concerned. I think I may make a paper mash canopy over the new one, and practice on the brummy paper canopy first . Any comments welcome. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:48:25 +1000 From: "Phil Matheson" Subject: KR> Fitting Todd's Dragonfly Canopy To: "KR Builder & Pilots" Message-ID: <006001c44ec7$cb73aa30$4996dccb@Office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all. I'm getting an Internal error 500 from the archives SO I have a new todds canopy, and have found it to be different to the Dragonfly Canopy that Mark L and Marl J have used, it is narrower , more pointed at the front, and I can see fund and games to cut and fit to the forward deck, Has any one out there fitted a Todds Dragonfly canopy to their KR,??? I would like some of your input, If it is not too much trouble I have been over the two Marks web pages, and still concerned. I think I may make a paper mash canopy over the new one, and practice on the brummy paper canopy first . Any comments welcome. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 05:49:39 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Thrown plug To: Message-ID: <002d01c44ed0$3f791340$10412141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joel & netters Aluminum is not too soft to hold onto plugs if they are torqued properly. I have completed more tune-ups on aluminum head engines than I can remember, and never had a properly torqued plug back out. The secret is to use Permatex Antiseize on the plug threads, and install at the recommended 20 ft# of torque. Only if the threads are worn out, or some of the original threads have been pulled out by removing plugs in the past will you run into problems. To properly helicoil threads is alot of headache, aggravation, and possibility of getting metal into the engine if done with the heads installed. Protect and prevent, is better than repair. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 06:13:23 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Re: bolts and screws into aluminum should be heli-coiled To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40C83443.000009.00928@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You do need "case savers" for your head studs, but I have never had them for plugs or anything else. There is a special grease that you should apply to the threads of your plugs, but I am having a senior minute and can't think of what it is called. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 21:06:56 +1000 From: "StRaNgEdAyS" Subject: Re: KR> thrown plug To: Message-ID: <40C840D0.000001.03744@motherfucker> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I had this same problem with one of my motorcycles. It took 1/2 the thread with it, so I got all the plug threads helicoiled. That fixed it and I never had a plug come loose in it again. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 06:19:36 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>Spar lamination direction - Oops To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003101c44edc$d056fd30$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve Jacobs wrote: > My second reaction was to re-read all my material on glue joints. > Every indication is that a properly done glue joint is as at least as > strong as the host material. A scarf joint is allowed in a wing spar > (cap) according to AC43 - at an angle similar to the minimum spec on > grain run-out within wood, suggesting that a glue line is at least as > strong as nature's own laminations (wood-grain) - is this not the very > reason that a laminated beam is seen to be stronger than a single > piece of lumber (of the same size and wood)? Personally, I agree 100%. I'd still do it the way you are doing it, and have no reservations at all. If I build another one, it'll be just like you built yours. I'm not sure it's necessarily the glue that makes a laminated beam stronger (although is probably a contributor), but the fact that if there is a hidden knot inside a large monolithic beam it goes undetected, whereas in a lamination it would be culled out and replaced with good wood. Also, the wood grain isn't perfectly aligned between laminations, so there's a certain amount of "crack-checking" that goes on, like in plywood, which I would consider to be a good thing. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:43:45 -0400 From: "Wood, Sidney M." Subject: RE: KR> Reduction Drive Unit/ Prop Clearance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Phil, It does not matter whether tri or tail dragger. Tri-gear will be level and tail dragger will be level on take off and landing. A hard landing will put the prop down even more. Either way the prop will be mowing grass ( or dirt or pavement) and throwing sand at the fuselage and tail if you do not have enough ground clearance for your prop. All it takes is the barest touch and you will be replacing a ruined prop and worrying if the crank shaft is cracked. Sid Wood, Tri-gear KR-2 N6242 Mechanicsville, MD USA sidney.wood@titan.com Sid, Is that tri or tail dragger. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:45:54 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Fitting Todd's Dragonfly Canopy To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I spoke to Todd about a week ago and asked if the KR canopy and the Dragonfly canopy are the same. He told me that they were. At least HIS KR canopy and HIS Dragonfly canopy are the same. He also told me that his bubble is bigger and you trim out a different section of it depending on exactly what size and shape you need. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Phil Matheson Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 4:48 AM To: KR Builder & Pilots Subject: KR> Fitting Todd's Dragonfly Canopy Hi all. I'm getting an Internal error 500 from the archives SO I have a new todds canopy, and have found it to be different to the Dragonfly Canopy that Mark L and Marl J have used, it is narrower , more pointed at the front, and I can see fund and games to cut and fit to the forward deck, Has any one out there fitted a Todds Dragonfly canopy to their KR,??? I would like some of your input, If it is not too much trouble I have been over the two Marks web pages, and still concerned. I think I may make a paper mash canopy over the new one, and practice on the brummy paper canopy first . Any comments welcome. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au VH-PKR ( Phil's KR) 61 3 58833588 Australia.( Down Under) See My KR2 Building Web Page at: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html See our VW Engines and Home built web page at http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:48:03 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR>Spar lamination direction - Oops To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There are production planes with laminated bent spars made of a lot of thin laminations. I am sure that a lot of them have bolts through the glue joints. My main reason for stating that you should not drill throught the glue joint was because it is very hard to keep a drill bit going straight through the softer wood and the harder glue. You will need to be very carefull and use a good drilling jig to make sure the bit comes out where it is supposed to. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 7:20 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Spar lamination direction - Oops Steve Jacobs wrote: > My second reaction was to re-read all my material on glue joints. > Every indication is that a properly done glue joint is as at least as > strong as the host material. A scarf joint is allowed in a wing spar > (cap) according to AC43 - at an angle similar to the minimum spec on > grain run-out within wood, suggesting that a glue line is at least as > strong as nature's own laminations (wood-grain) - is this not the very > reason that a laminated beam is seen to be stronger than a single > piece of lumber (of the same size and wood)? Personally, I agree 100%. I'd still do it the way you are doing it, and have no reservations at all. If I build another one, it'll be just like you built yours. I'm not sure it's necessarily the glue that makes a laminated beam stronger (although is probably a contributor), but the fact that if there is a hidden knot inside a large monolithic beam it goes undetected, whereas in a lamination it would be culled out and replaced with good wood. Also, the wood grain isn't perfectly aligned between laminations, so there's a certain amount of "crack-checking" that goes on, like in plywood, which I would consider to be a good thing. Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:40:03 -0500 From: "rparker" Subject: Re: KR> Re: bolts and screws into aluminum should be heli-coiled To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040610134003.12614.qmail@server278.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" its Anti seize lubricant you can get it at any parts store. looks like aluminum dust suspended in silicone grease. Rich Parker Peterborough,NH USA http://theparkers.wwhotspots.com/~theparkers/kr/kr.htm -------Original Message------- > From: Dan Heath > Subject: KR> Re: bolts and screws into aluminum should be heli-coiled > Sent: Jun 10 2004 05:13:23 > > You do need "case savers" for your head studs, but I have never had them for > plugs or anything else. There is a special grease that you should apply to > the threads of your plugs, but I am having a senior minute and can't think > of what it is called. > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for > building has long since expired." > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > > See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -------Original Message------- ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:58:58 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR>Spar lamination direction - Oops To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001d01c44ef3$16bbea90$4964a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My main reason for stating that you should not drill through the glue joint was because it is very hard to keep a drill bit going straight +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Good point - could ruin an expensive spar if the drill bit goes walkies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. If I build another one, it'll be just like you built yours. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thanks - that gives me more confidence. Still bothers me that Don Reid did not like the idea - I was expecting a boffin (like him) to step up and declare this to be as good as (or better). My instinct is to stagger the WAF bolt holes so as to void having them on the same line - anyone have any thoughts on that. Holes in a row offer images of the perforations in toilet paper. What size bolt holes are required for mounting the Diehl type u/c? (I have old KR plans with retracts). I presume that the Grove rendition has bolts all the way through the spar from the bottom up? Thanks for the input Steve J Zambia ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:13:32 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> anti-seize compound torque To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005901c44ef5$1d574870$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Anti-seize compound is great stuff. But make sure you allow for its "lubricity" when you torque the plug or bolt. Typically you'd use somewhere between 25% and 50% less torque when installing something with anti-seize on it, if the given torque spec is "dry" torque. It's actually just as tight, but easier to get it that way when lubricated. At the very least, I'd reduce the torque by 20%. Personally, I use about 35%. Having stripped my first bolt at age seventeen on my brand new Karmann Ghia (which resulted in having to pull the engine to helicoil that exhaust stud), I've learned my lesson about over torqueing bolts when screwed into aluminum... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:15:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> Fitting Todd's Dragonfly Canopy To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040610141525.58294.qmail@web53006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Phil: Check-out my web-site (Actually Dan & Jerry's): http://kr-builder.org/ScottCable/index.html My Todd's Canopy fit very, very nice. --- Phil Matheson wrote: > Has any one out there fitted a Todds Dragonfly > canopy to their KR,??? I would like some of your input, If it is not too much trouble. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:53:12 GMT From: Subject: KR> 1600cc VW To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20040610.135345.13769.28904@webmail02.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain I have been flying with a 1641cc on my KR-2 for years with no problems. It cruses at about 100 at 2500 rpm with a 54x34 prop, and uses about three gallons per hr. of 100 LL. Climb rate varies with OAT. It's about 600 ft/min. It's got a Bendix mag., single ignition. ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:02:56 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> 1600cc VW To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40C8CC80.00000D.00928@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Why not fly it to the gathering this year. Sounds like a great plane. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 06/10/04 16:54:45 To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> 1600cc VW I have been flying with a 1641cc on my KR-2 for years with no problems. It cruses at about 100 at 2500 rpm with a 54x34 prop, and uses about three gallons per hr. of 100 LL. Climb rate varies with OAT. It's about 600 ft/min It's got a Bendix mag., single ignition. _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 17:04:46 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Wickes To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40C8CCEE.000011.00928@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I ordered some stuff from Wickes, Tuesday at 4PM. They sent it UPS ground and it arrived at 2PM today. Those guys are great. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:30:17 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> Thrown plug To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <003401c44f4b$57cada70$0af5e2d1@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I agree with Colin on this point. Aluminum is a soft material and I've had problems that required Heli Coils but these were only on high stress, high torque applications. Pulled so many transmission mounting and head to case bolts on my racing Harley's that it became standard practice to incorporate the changes in the original build stage of the process. As long as the plug threads are OK to begin with, and I would certainly have this checked as most mechanics in the auto industry are paid piece work and eliminate the anti-seize bit. For my own applications, steel or iron heads I run a thread chaser thru the holes to remove any and all carbon before installing new plugs. Aluminum heads require a little more caution as the chaser might have a tendency to remove metal so in these cases I use a 12 gauge shotgun bore brush dipped in solvent. In any case NEVER install plugs without a good quality anti-seize and save yourself grief further down the road. Doug Rupert ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:48:49 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: RE: KR>Spar lamination direction - Oops To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040610203254.01d84db0@pop.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:58 AM 6/10/2004, you wrote: >Thanks - that gives me more confidence. Still bothers me that Don Reid >did not like the idea - I was expecting a boffin (like him) to step up >and declare this to be as good as (or better). > >My instinct is to stagger the WAF bolt holes so as to void having them >on the same line - anyone have any thoughts on that. Holes in a row >offer images of the perforations in toilet paper. You should notice that in my original answer, I said "should not go through the glue line". I did not say "must not". If I were in that situation, I would try to align the laminations so that the hole misses the glue line. If I could not, then I would make darn sure that the hole is well drilled, perpendicular and also reamed to size. In the traditional construction, it is also acceptable to do a lot of different scarfing and inlaying techniques. Larger pieces may be scarfed with smaller. Cross banding (high density overlay, like birch plywood) can be inserted into the interior of the bolted joint area. This is tough to describe, but think of a mortice and tenon joint. The tenon is made of high density wood or plywood and glued into the mortice. This high density insert is trimmed flush with the end of the spar. The bolts then go through the tenon and spar material. As long as the spacing is greater than the allowable minimum, it makes no difference at all whether they are in line or staggered. Don Reid - donreid "at" erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://www.eaa231.org/AeroFoil/index.htm KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:18:17 EDT From: FIXERJONES@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Thrown plug To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <43.2ce30192.2dfa7069@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" the ngk sparkplugs i've been using have antisieze applied to the threads rite out of the box! ready to install,, steve jones n212kr ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:38:34 EDT From: TNCOMPRESSORMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: KR>Spar lamination direction - Oops To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <98.d1ea247.2dfa752a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/10/2004 9:59:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, askies@microlink.zm writes: What size bolt holes are required for mounting the Diehl type u/c? (I have old KR plans with retracts). I presume that the Grove rendition has bolts all the way through the spar from the bottom up? Steve, The bolts supplied for the attachment on the diehl gear are 1/4", I did replace mine with 5/16 due to the gross weight I am anticipating. I also floxed the attachment to the spar and the legs to the bracket. You need to do some planning as to where to drill these to place the holes as close to the centerline of the spar caps as you can. The spar will have an upward dihedral angle and the brackets need to be level to maintain the correct geometry. On my bird this also caused the bracket to protrude from the bottom of the wing on the front corner of the bracket. (new airfoil) no problem as the fairings will cover it I think the grove gear mounts on a 90* angle bracket that would be mounted to the spar in a manner similar to the diehl. I don't know if any of the KR plans show anything other than retracts (about 1/3 of book) I bought my plans in '96 or '97 Hope this helps Riley Collins Rutledge, Tn ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 101 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================