From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 112 Date: 6/21/2004 9:00:08 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: VW parts (Buzz Frankel) 2. KR2S Plans #1087 (StRaNgEdAyS) 3. Seat Belt Attachments (larry flesner) 4. KR2S Plans #1087 (Ronald Metcalf) 5. Re: KR2S Plans #1087 (Allen G. Wiesner) 6. Seat Belt Attachments (larry flesner) 7. Re: KR2S Plans #1087 (Phillip Matheson) 8. Re: Seat Belt Attachments (Phillip Matheson) 9. Re: Seat Belt Attachments & H-Points (Scott Cable) 10. Seat Belt Attachments & H-Points (larry flesner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:10:24 -0600 From: "Buzz Frankel" Subject: RE: KR>VW parts To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001401c45745$b0c66b10$6401a8c0@BUZZ> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Assembled? Log? Running? I am interested, what do you want for it? ------------------------------------ Call Buzz First Buzz Frankel "By Referral Only" buzz.frankel@ipremier1st.com 8225 Cottongrass Ct Castle Pines, CO 80108 tel: (720)207-5205 fax: (206) 339-4559 ------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of JW Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:53 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>VW parts To KRnet, I am selling a VW type 4 2180 case for a friend. It is the case with only the heads,new cylnders,new pistons w/ connecting rods. Make offer off net, Justin _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:08:52 +1000 From: "StRaNgEdAyS" Subject: KR> KR2S Plans #1087 To: Message-ID: <40D69794.00002A.00980@motherfucker> Content-Type: Text/Plain Hello there all! I figured I'd chip in with an introduction. My name is Peter Bancks, My wife Sarah and I live in the sunny (but cold at the moment) South East of Queensland Australia. We recently recieved KR2 and KR2S plans # 9670 and #1087 respectively. We intend on building the S variant. We are about 2 hours out of Brisbane in a small country town called Blackbutt (yes REALLY). Out here there is not a lot to distract us from the task of building our first plane together (apart from the fact my wife is currently 8 weeks pregnant with our first child), so we hope to have it completed within 2 years. I do believe a friend of mine shot Murphy (of Murphy's Law fame) last week, so until they find a replacement (probably Shamus, Murphy's second cousin) we should be able to make some decent progress! That's about all for now, will keep you all posted, and submit a web address to be added to the KRnet.org list as it gets done. Cheers, Peter and Sarah Bancks ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 08:24:15 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Seat Belt Attachments To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040621082415.00891100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Netters, > Awhile back someone posted a message on his seat belt attachment. >It was an angle bracket made with 4130 steel that was bolted to the >rear spar using two bolts through the solid parts of the spar. could these brackets be made out of 6061-T6 Alum? If so what thickness angle alum. would be best. >Jim Morehead ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= You may be thinking of the following: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/fittings.jpg As for alum or not I'll let an engineer type answer that but if you are considering 1/4" alum, you may as well use a thinner steel. The weight savings would be very small if any. As for using fittings at all instead of attaching directly to the spar, the fittings move the attach point forward a bit to help hold you down as well as back. If the attach point is too far behind the point where the belt crosses you lap you won't get a very good vertical restraint. Just my "non-engineered" opinion. Larry Flesner Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 14:20:42 -0500 From: "Ronald Metcalf" Subject: KR> KR2S Plans #1087 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Out here there is not a lot to distract us from the task of building our first plane together >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good Luck Pete (& Sarah) I am sure you have already done this, but if not, research the mods that are most popular before you start. After many months of doing exactly that, for what it is worth, I believe that a KR2S with the cockpit widened to 39" (or so) and the fuselage stretched something like 4" ahead of the main spar and AT LEAST 14" aft of the rear spar makes for a near perfect and very cost effective 2 seat airplane. These mods are relatively simple and have no negative impact on the design intergity (strength) of the fuselage. The do impact on factory supplied canopy and deckings. There are tons of other mods including the updated with section, better hinges for the tail feathers etc. - then a thousand engine options ranging from Rotary, through Veedub to Vair, or a regular certified motor - even a turbine if you wish. You will have ample time to consider these in the months (years) ahead. The mods mentioned above happen in the early stages of building and need a decision before you start. Good luck Ron _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfeeŽ Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:38:14 -0400 From: "Allen G. Wiesner" Subject: Re: KR> KR2S Plans #1087 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008e01c457c7$4bd75c50$ba12da42@CPQ25208480116> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Hello there all! >I figured I'd chip in with an introduction. >My name is Peter Bancks, My wife Sarah and I live in the sunny (but >cold at the moment) South East of Queensland Australia. We recently >received KR2 and KR2S plans # 9670 and #1087 respectively. We intend on >building the S variant. >I do believe a friend of mine shot Murphy (of Murphy's Law fame) last >week, so until they find a replacement (probably Shamus, Murphy's >second >cousin) we should be able to make some decent progress! Welcome to the group. I assume your friend is a relative of Ned Kelly. Allen G. Wiesner KR-2SS/TD S/N 1118 65 Franklin Street Ansonia, CT 06401 (203) 732-0508 flashyal@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:47:39 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Seat Belt Attachments To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040621164739.00891b40@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Netters, > Awhile back someone posted a message on his seat belt attachment. >It was an angle bracket made with 4130 steel that was bolted to the >rear spar using two bolts through the solid parts of the spar. > could these brackets be made out of 6061-T6 Alum? >If so what thickness angle alum. would be best. >Jim Morehead >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You may be thinking of the following: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/fittings.jpg As for alum or not I'll let an engineer type answer that but if you are considering 1/4" alum, you may as well use a thinner steel. The weight savings would be very small if any. As for using fittings at all instead of attaching directly to the spar, the fittings move the attach point forward a bit to help hold you down as well as back. If the attach point is too far behind the point where the belt crosses you lap you won't get a very good vertical restraint. Just my "non-engineered" opinion. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:24:30 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> KR2S Plans #1087 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001801c457de$86033590$c897dccb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Peter & Sarah Welcome. We have a few builders here in Australia, If I can be of any help please contact me, I'll send another email off the net, to welcome you again. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:01:05 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> Seat Belt Attachments To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00d401c457e3$a2535720$c897dccb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Larry What is the Braking Strain on the WIRES holding your seat belts brackets in?? That really makes any easy installation. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:25:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> Seat Belt Attachments & H-Points To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040621232543.36454.qmail@web53010.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jim & Netters: The discussion awhile back about belt attachments was between myself and Colin Rainey.... If I recall the bottom line of that discussion was 1/4" minimum diameter bolts through .16 thick aluminum. 3/16ths fasteners just weren't strong enough to carry the weight of an average sized pilot to the G loading a KR is capable of generating. A 1/4 inch diameter bolt (aircraft grade) develops it's full shear capability at .160 thick 2024-T851 according to the Mil-HDBK-5H on material allowables. 2024-T851 is a stronger material than 6061-T6, you could use either, 2024-T851 would allow about 4660 lbs of shear per attachment. 6061-T6 is only good for about 3961 lbs (about 15% less). This is of course assuming that you keep at least 2D + .03 edge distance or greater. Please remember these allowables are for an aluminum joint, and in regards to the KR seat belt attachment, you'll have to factor in the fact that the joint is aluminum to spuce, which is obviously much weaker. As far as belt attachment location, find the "H"-Point of the occupant (center of the hip socket) and draw a line horizontal from there. draw another line 45 degrees below the first line again starting from the H-Point. This is your lap-belt attachment zone. Because we sit typically in front of the rear spar, you could unintentionally locate the lap belt attachment higher than your H-point, which would do little for vertical restraint, and be very uncomfortable during flight. As always, your results may vary, please don't take my word alone, test, research and do the math for yourself..... Jim Morehead wrote: >what thickness angle alum. would be best. >Jim Morehead >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You may be thinking of the following: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/flesner/fittings.jpg ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:46:21 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Seat Belt Attachments & H-Points To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040621214621.00891d10@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Because we sit typically in front of the rear spar, you could unintentionally locate the lap belt attachment higher than your H-point, which would do little for vertical restraint, and be very uncomfortable during flight. >Scott Cable +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ My brackets place my attach point approx 4 inches forward of the rear spar and approx 1 1/2 inches off the floor. In the 60+ hours of flight time so far they seem to be comfortable and effective. I have two 3/16 inch bolts holding each bracket to the rear spar and either a 5/16 or a 3/8 inch bolt holding each end of the belt to the bracket. And Phil, the wires make for VERY easy installation and removal. :-) 66 hours total !!! 60 hours since the middle of February. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 112 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================