From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 114 Date: 6/23/2004 6:12:11 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: High Alt (larry severson) 2. fuel indicator question (Steelef@aol.com) 3. RE: High Alt (StRaNgEdAyS) 4. RE: fuel indicator question (Robin Wills) 5. Fw: mtow KR2s (Dan Heath) 6. High altitude (Serge F. Vidal) 7. Re: Mogas and Fibre Glass (Donald Reid) 8. RE: High Alt (larry flesner) 9. Re: High Alt (Mark Langford) 10. High Alt - follow-up (larry flesner) 11. High Alt - follow-up (larry flesner) 12. RE: High Alt (Stephen Jacobs) 13. Steel frame KR (Wesley Scott) 14. steel frame (Colin & Bev Rainey) 15. High alt (Colin & Bev Rainey) 16. KR structural analysis (Dan Heath) 17. RE: High Alt (Dan Heath) 18. Re: KR structural analysis (Brian Kraut) 19. Re: Mogas and Fibre Glass (TNCOMPRESSORMAN@aol.com) 20. Ailerons (Mark Jones) 21. Speed Brake (Mark Jones) 22. FOR SALE (Mark Jones) 23. Re: Ailerons (Dan Heath) 24. Re: Ailerons (Mark Jones) 25. FOR SALE (Mark Jones) 26. Re: Ailerons (Dan Heath) 27. Re: Ailerons (Dan Heath) 28. RE: Speed Brake (Jack Cooper) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:52:37 -0700 From: larry severson Subject: RE: KR> High Alt To: buzz@buzzfrankel.com, KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040622215155.024680c8@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:15 PM 6/22/2004 -0600, you wrote: >I am concerned mostly with the hot day high alt.take off. Density alt. >issues. I have not flown a KR before but many light composite planes, >your comments as to performance are helpful. > >I really would rather not eat the parameter fence at the other end of >the runway. Extend the wings or turbo the engine! Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 02:27:48 EDT From: Steelef@aol.com Subject: KR> fuel indicator question To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1e3.23818d9a.2e0a7ce4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Netters, several months ago I noticed a blip regarding a fuel indicator with no moving parts & non electrical. As I recall, it was constructed with 4 "plastic" lengths to designate 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 & full. It seems to me that it may have been a Bede contrivance, but perhaps not. I have recently searched back to locate this item, but to no avail. It may be for an overhead wing, so it would not help in our type of aircraft. Is there a memory better than mine available, huh? Franc Steel KR-2s dreamer No quotable sayings, yet ! ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:13:03 +1000 From: "StRaNgEdAyS" Subject: RE: KR> High Alt To: Message-ID: <40D93B8F.000004.03256@motherfucker> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Buzz. With reference to your concern about high altitude there are a couple of issues to take into account. Firstly, at altitude your MTOW is always going to be reduced over the MSL maximum. Extending the wings may well compensate for that, but then you are going to get a higher drag, requiring more HP to overcome it. Secondly, and of greater concern, the higher altitude will also affect the level of control authority, so while you may well get off the ground on that hot day at your high altitude strip with a moderate load, you may find that you lack sufficient elevator authority to get out of ground effect, and even though you may have sufficient lift from your wing extensions, and power up the yazoo from your turbo'ed engine, you are still going to trip over the boundary fence because you are stuck in ground effect. It's overcoming that ground effect that is going to be the reall isue for you, not the horsepower of your engine. I'll have a hunt around, because I also live at the top of a mountain range, and it is an issue that I too will have to deal with . Cheers. Peter Bancks. strangedays@dodo.com.au ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:19:26 +1000 From: "Robin Wills" Subject: RE: KR> fuel indicator question To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001301c4590b$90cec9c0$783532d2@robinwills> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I recently came across the same article and it is very similar in theory to a lawnmower fuel guage. Mike Mims has it on his site at: http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/anchor/270/gauge.jpg Seems just the trick, cheap, light and failsafe. Regards, Robin Wills RAAF Base Richmond Australia robinwills@iprimus.com.au A KR Beats a C130 for fun anyday. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 06:28:45 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Fw: mtow KR2s To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40D95B5D.000005.03556@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Forwarding a message from Marcel Hi Netters, I am helping a friend to get his airworthiness certificate for his KR2S. We would like to get an approval from the Dutch Aviation authorities for a higher MTOW. For an approval the Ducth autorities require an Airworthiness Certificate from a KR2s wich is already flying. I would like to get in contact with a KR-Bulder who is flying his KR2s with a higher MTOW than 980 lbs. Please e-mail me directly driessen2@tiscali.nl Thanks and regards, Marcel Driessen KR2S-Builder from The Netherlands 90% complete _____________________________________________________________________ Bent u toe aan sneller en goedkoper internet? Ga dan naar http://adsl.tiscali.nl ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:05:19 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" Subject: KR> High altitude To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000301c45901$362facf0$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My KR2 was built at sea level (Port Elisabeth, South Africa), and I flew it for two years at high altitude, hot conditions (Johannesburg). My fied was at 5300' altitude. The engine was a very good VW Type 4, 2 liter, which is rated at 65hp. But the combination of engine and prop had been carefully tuned for maximum cruise speed at seal level. I must say that as a single seater, the aircraft never disappointed me. With two on board and full fuel, it was another story. The scariest thing was take-off distance. It could take up to 1200 meters to get airborne sometimes. Then, the climb rate could be as low as 150 ft per minute. A more suitable propeller would have solved the problem, I think. But I opted for a more radical solution, and I improved the engine instead. I fitted a 2.4 liter, rated at 80 hp. The improvement was stunning. Anyway, my feeling is: - Wing loading is your biggest problem. Because of that, a KR will never take-off short at altitude, even with a huge powerplant. It needs to build plenty speed for take off!. If you plan to operate from high altitude, extend the wings. - Engines without a turbo will battle at altitude, no matter how big they are. If you can't get a turbo, at least, put two carbs instead of one. Make the engine breathe better! - Get the right propeller, to get the maximum RPM out of the engine! Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC - Taildragger, VW powered (2.4 liter, dual electronic ignition) - Total aircraft time: 390h - Aircraft hangared at: Orleans, France - Pilot moaning in: Tunis, Tunisia E-mail: serge.vidal@ate-international.com ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:40:32 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Mogas and Fibre Glass To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040623081035.01c073d8@pop.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >\My brother owns a vari-ez and the right tank developed a leak that >desolved about 6" of the foam in the wing. He swears that using mogas >only on 2 occasions caused the failure. However it's anyone's guess as >to what kind of epoxy was used as he didn't build it. A Vari-Eze is supposed to be built with Urethane foam around the tanks. Urethane is impervious to gasoline. Assuming that you mean the outboard wing panels that are made from polystyrene, any gas (Mo or Av) will dissolve the foam. If you spill gasoline on the glass surface of the outer panel of a Vari-Eze wing, it can migrate through the glass into the foam and damage the structure. This is a caution in the Rutan plans. I did a test to satisfy myself about all the gasoline issues. I had a sample specimen of Last-A-Foam and fiberglass in a sealed jar of Mogas for 4 years. There was no sediment, no discoloration, no delamination, and no apparent loss of strength of the sample. The Resin was Easy-Poxy II. There are numerous reports related to Mogas. The majority of them appear to be anecdotal and I disregard them. The ones that seem to have a solid technical basis indicate that a good quality resin will be impervious to gasoline (Mo or Av) if it is properly mixed; i.e., several minutes of mixing while scraping the sides and bottom of the container, the initial temperature is correct (greater than 70 F, preferably more), and no dilution agents are included. If you take a batch of epoxy and mix it for 30 seconds, the ultimate strength will be on the order of 90 percent of a properly mixed batch. In a structural application, you will probably not notice the difference. The resin/hardener chemical reaction would not be complete. Portions of the mixture are soluble in gasoline or alcohol and will come out in solution and cause problems. It is my opinion that if you use a good quality epoxy and mix it properly, taking care to eliminate pinholes, there should be no problems with the tanks, using either Mo or Av gas. Don Reid - donreid "at" erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://www.eaa231.org/AeroFoil/index.htm KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 07:46:02 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: RE: KR> High Alt To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040623074602.00897100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Firstly, at altitude your MTOW is always going to be reduced over the >MSL maximum. Extending the wings may well compensate for that, but then >you are going to get a higher drag, requiring more HP to overcome it. Peter Bancks. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Your max takeoff weight is reduced only if you don't have enough POWER to drag the aircraft into the air. Longer wings should help the climb rate and the penalty for the longer wings will be felt primarily in the cruise mode and is probably not more than a few miles per hour. Larry Flesner (CONTINUED BELOW) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Secondly, and of greater concern, the higher altitude will also affect >the level of control authority, so while you may well get off the >ground on that hot day at your high altitude strip with a moderate >load, you may find that you lack sufficient elevator authority to get >out of ground effect, and even though you may have sufficient lift from >your wing extensions, and power up the yazoo from your turbo'ed engine, >you are still going to trip over the boundary fence because you are >stuck in ground effect. It's overcoming that ground effect that is >going to be the reall isue for you, not the horsepower of your engine. >Peter Bancks. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It would appear to me that you have some misunderstandings on aircraft performance at higher altitudes. I would hope you clear them up before flying your KR. The single most important factor affecting performance at altitude is POWER. At 6000 feet you've lost 6 inchs of manifold pressure and a considerable percentage of the POWER output. When flying jumpers to 10,000 feet I can watch the manifold pressure drop with altitude. Starting at 30 inches at takeoff and dropping to 20 inches at 10,000 feet. I'm guessing I've lost more then 33 percent of my power. The airplane, however, flies just fine, even with 3 jumpers hanging out on the wing strut. My KR flies exactly the same at 6000 feet wheather I'm climbing with full power or decending at idle. Aircraft control with the control surfaces (rudder, elevator, ailerons) is a non-issue. The reason you hear of aircraft not being able to climb out of ground effect is again related to POWER. Ground effect is generally the distance of 1/2 the wingspan above the ground where the wing is much more efficent. It takes less POWER to fly the aircraft in ground effect. You can get youself into a situation where you can take off and fly in ground effect but can't climb above that because you don't have the POWER. Climbing out of ground effect has nothing to do with elevator authority but rather with the ability of the engine to generate enough POWER to pull the wing through the air at a speed that generates enough lift to climb. If you want better performance at altitude you need either more POWER or less weight so you don't need more POWER. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:03:38 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> High Alt To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01c601c45922$802fe880$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Buzz Frankel wrote: > I recently bought a KR-2 with a vw 1845 I am rebuilding...... I'm with Larry...what you need is more power. The quickest, easiest, cure is to stroke that 1835cc with an 82mm crankshaft and make it a 2180cc, especially if you're going to rebuild it anyway. 1835cc may work for pilot only if you don't mind a slow climb rate, but if you ever want to carry a passenger on a hot day, you'd be a lot safer with a 2180cc. GPASC at http://www.greatplainsas.com/ has everything you'd need to do it yourself. If you want a good performer with a passenger, stuff a Corvair in it, but the changes in everything from engine mount to cowling will set you back substantially in terms of time... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:26:14 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> High Alt - follow-up To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040623082614.00796b20@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I guess I should have stated the obvious. You could turbo you're smaller engine back to a sea level manifold pressure and your KR will think there are babes lying on a topless beach nearby. :-) That is , of course, dependent on wheather you engine has enough hp to fly your KR at the intended weight in the first place. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:37:56 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> High Alt - follow-up To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040623083756.007c47d0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I guess I should have stated the obvious. You could turbo you're smaller engine back to a sea level manifold pressure and your KR will think there are babes lying on a topless beach nearby. :-) That is , of course, dependent on wheather you engine has enough hp to fly your KR at the intended weight in the first place. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:40:29 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> High Alt To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000301c45940$cf12a0a0$4964a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It would appear to me that you have some misunderstandings on aircraft performance at higher altitudes. The single most important factor affecting performance at altitude is POWER ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Well said bwana Flesner (not just another pretty little face) Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:47:14 -0500 From: "Wesley Scott" Subject: KR> Steel frame KR To: "krnet" Message-ID: <002201c45941$be712950$c600a8c0@pbrain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Talked to Jeanette today about getting copies of the KR structural analysis. The result: You can't get the complete analysis. She did say that she thought someone had built a steel frame KR in Mississippi. Anyone have any ideas on who this was, how to contact them, and what type of success they had? -- wesley scott kr2@spottedowl.biz ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 15:20:46 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> steel frame To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001201c45957$2fe944e0$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Wesley Why would you want a steel frame? Pound for pound spruce is lighter at the same strength unless you use one of the exotic metals, then you might as well pick a different plane. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 15:43:16 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> High alt To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002d01c4595a$54122320$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Netters To simply expand on what Larry is saying, the most dramatic that high density altitude has on an airplane is to its power and thrust output. Thinner air (for discussion) regardless of how you get it, whether you are high elevation, or just very hot, or combinations will yield much lower power output from the powerplant, and less thrust achieved from the prop. This being said, you will also have a higher speed on takeoff roll, longer takeoff roll, higher stall speeds, due to the lowered amount of lift that the wing is able to achieve at this higher density altitude. The KR typically has a short takeoff roll anyway so it may not be that noticeable to someone with good power, but a marginal aircraft on a cool day at sea level, may not get off or out of ground effect on a high density altitude day. Just yesterday I was taking off in a C172, 180hp O-360 with an outside temp of 97 degrees, density altitude close to 2000 feet, field elevation of only 55 feet above sea level. The Vr for the aircraft is published as 55 knots, but we did not separate from the runway until nearly 65 knots, and rolled 2/3 of a 3500 foot long runway. Climb on a cool day is this aircraft is normally on the order of 1250-1500fpm with only 2 on board, yet 750-800fpm was the best it would do until passing through 1200ft then it started running alittle stronger as the air cooled alittle. The indicated speeds will be adjusted by the change in density altitude by the way the indicator works, so they will appear in the normal range, but actual speeds are higher, no difference then when flying at 6000-8000. The difference being you are still touching the ground in the takeoff instance. Those with surplus hp and torque do not notice these effects as much, but a clue might be to take note that most aircraft that I have seen that fly mountainous areas regularly are either turbo-charged, or the next size larger engine available, i.e.: IO-540 in place of an O-360 etc... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:47:49 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> KR structural analysis To: , "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40D9FA85.000001.01936@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Did you ask her why you can't get the complete analysis? Can you get any part of the analysis? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:53:50 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: RE: KR> High Alt To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40D9FBEE.000003.01936@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Larry, Let's see if I understand... If I want better climb on a hot day or at high altitudes, what is it that I need? OH, I know, longer wings. Darn, I think I just flunked. OH OH, now I know, it's POWER. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:58:55 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: Re: KR> KR structural analysis To: KRnet Message-ID: <200406231758.AA54526112@mail.engalt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I would imagine that back in the 70s it was a bunch of hand written data and calculations. I suspect that even if you had it you would need to be a structural engineer to understand it and in that case you could probably redo it on a computer in less time than reviewing what Ken did. I would also not be surprised to find that the spars and a few other major items were calculated and a lot of the rest was eyeballed and fudge factored. I am not criticizing the design at all by saying this. I am sure that a lot of homebuilts are designed this way and we know that the KR is very structurarly sound. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Dan Heath" Reply-To: KRnet Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:47:49 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) >Did you ask her why you can't get the complete analysis? Can you get >any part of the analysis? > > > >See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > >"There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for >building has long since expired." > >Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > >See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > >See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org > > > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:09:09 EDT From: TNCOMPRESSORMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Mogas and Fibre Glass To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <145.2cc87a9c.2e0b5985@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 6/23/2004 8:41:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, donreid@erols.com writes: A Vari-Eze is supposed to be built with Urethane foam around the tanks. Urethane is impervious to gasoline. Assuming that you mean the outboard wing panels that are made from polystyrene, any gas (Mo or Av) will dissolve the foam. Don, It was the right outer wing panel, in front of the attachment. Outer wings are blue polystyrene foam that almost vanishes when contacted by gasoline or solvents. Should have been clearer as there is nothing in the strake area that fuel should hurt. Best Regards Riley Collins Rutledge, TN ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:51:01 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Ailerons To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <003e01c45974$8f271c80$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The KR2S plans call for ailerons 72" long and 5" deep. Has anyone made them different. Maybe shorter and deeper? Maybe just shorter? From all I have heard, it takes very little movement of the ailerons to bank the plane. I am close to cutting mine out and would appreciate any thoughts on this. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:54:40 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Speed Brake To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <004701c45975$116390c0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am going to install a speed brake in the next couple of days. I am using an electric Van's RV flap actuator to raise and lower the speed brake. Has anyone using a speed brake placed the speed brake in any other location other than the rear spar? My speed brake will be 30" x 9". Any thoughts on the proper location and why would be greatly appreciated. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:02:19 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> FOR SALE To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <005a01c45976$22ea2600$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have a Rand Robinson flap handle actuator assembly which I would like to sell. It is new and has never been used. Rand sells them for $90.00. E-mail me privately if you wish to make me an offer. The highest offer takes it and buyer pays shipping. My e-mail is flykr2s@wi.rr.com Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:15:36 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Ailerons To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40DA0F18.000001.00888@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark, Is that in an S supplement? The 2 is 7 at the root and 4.5 at the tip. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:53:06 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Ailerons To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006a01c4597d$3b63d940$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My plans show 7" at the root and 5" at the tip and 72" long. Sorry I did not make that any clearer. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 6:15 PM Subject: Re: KR> Ailerons > Mark, > > > > Is that in an S supplement? The 2 is 7 at the root and 4.5 at the tip. > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for > building has long since expired." > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 18:56:35 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> FOR SALE To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <008c01c4597d$b7e46840$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have a Rand Robinson flap handle actuator assembly which I would like to sell. It is new and has never been used. Rand sells them for $90.00. E-mail me privately if you wish to make me an offer. The highest offer takes it and buyer pays shipping. My e-mail is flykr2s@wi.rr.com Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:47:58 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Ailerons To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40DA24BE.000007.00888@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: My plans show 7" at the root and 5" at the tip and 72" long. Mark, That seems right. The 2 is 72" long also. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 20:54:01 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Ailerons To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40DA2629.000009.00888@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: Maybe shorter and deeper? Mark, I guess the other Mark has made them a lot shorter and deeper. However if you are going to balance them per the plans, deeper will get you in trouble with the aft spar of the wing. Also, something to consider is that the KR is designed to be an "aileron" controlled plane and changing the dynamics of that may give you results that would be less than desirable. Certainly, unless there is a pressing need to do something else, why not go with what you know. Besides, we need to see your plane in Mt. Vernon this year. See my MANTRA below. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 28 Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:11:12 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" Subject: RE: KR> Speed Brake To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <410-22004642411112828@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Mark Check Rich Siefert's KR on the link below. It looks to me like its attached at the front spar. http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/pinebluff2001/ > [Original Message] > From: Mark Jones > To: KR Net > Date: 6/23/2004 6:50:32 PM > Subject: KR> Speed Brake > > I am going to install a speed brake in the next couple of days. I am using an electric Van's RV flap actuator to raise and lower the speed brake. Has anyone using a speed brake placed the speed brake in any other location other than the rear spar? My speed brake will be 30" x 9". Any thoughts on the proper location and why would be greatly appreciated. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 114 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================