From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 129 Date: 7/1/2004 8:59:58 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: canopy swap (Mike Turner) 2. lack of power and over sensitivity (Dan Heath) 3. lack of power and over sensitivity (larry flesner) 4. Re: canopy swap (Ron Eason) 5. Re: lack of power and over sensitivity (Kenneth B. Jones) 6. RE: lack of power and over sensitivity (Brian Kraut) 7. outboard spar taper (Brian Kraut) 8. comfirmation (Bill Page) 9. comfirmation (Bill Page) 10. RE: comfirmation (Brian Kraut) 11. over sensitivity (larry flesner) 12. RE: over sensitivity (Brian Kraut) 13. RE: spar skins (Brian Kraut) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 18:19:52 -0500 From: "Mike Turner" Subject: Re: KR> canopy swap To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian, I have clear canopy that I got from a guy at our EAA chapter. It still has the protective coating on it but I think it is for a kr2 not the kr2s. Mike Turner ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: KRnet Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 5:46 PM Subject: KR> canopy swap I have a new tinted Rand 2S canopy that I would like to trade for a untinted one. I realize it is a long shot, but if anyone has a clear one and wants a tinted one let me know. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:31:55 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> lack of power and over sensitivity To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40E49EEB.000003.03356@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: One glaring deficiency with the KR series aircraft has been lack of power and over sensitivity of controls and since Jeanette seems as though she is not interested in addressing these problems If you build a REAL KR2 or KR2S, this is an absolute false statement. While I don't think that Jeanette takes care of business, she is not in the business of re-designing the KR, beyond what has already been done. There are issues with the KR, but they are not what was cited in that statement. We constantly read stuff like this on the net, and persons new to the KR, may believe some of this. I am always reading about how over sensitive the KR is, from people who have never flown one. And then, when a new KR is born all I can read about is how great it flys and what fun it is. That does not read like a plane that is under powered and over sensitive. Build it, fly it, and then tell us about it. "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 20:04:15 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> lack of power and over sensitivity To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040701200415.00799920@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:31 PM 7/1/04 -0400, you wrote: >RE: One glaring deficiency with the KR series aircraft has been lack of >power and over sensitivity of controls and since Jeanette seems as >though she is not interested in addressing these problems ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Lack of power" is totally dependent on the empty weight of the aircraft you build and the engine you chose to use. It doesn't have to be under powered. Cut the weight or install a larger engine. Just keep in mind that there are limits to either. "Over sensitivity" of controls is a relative term. Depends on what you're used to. A Cessna or Piper it's not but it's no more sensitive then say a Bell 206 Jet Ranger. Talk about sensitive! Yet they are flown everywhere and landed on rooftops and all sorts of places. The KR controls are "light" and "very responsive" but "over sensitive", I don't think so after 70 hours on mine. There have been times, like when my four point harness popped open at 1000 feet, that I've wished the KR to be more stable so I could take my hand off the stick for more than a few seconds and wrestle about the cockpit. But then I wouldn't feel like a fighter pilot after a flight in the KR. As for Jeanette not addressing the problem she did, years ago, witht the 2S. If you are just starting a project that's what you should be building. I've come to realize that it is sometimes the pucker in the seat that pulls the grin on your face. :-) Larry Flesner - 70 hours and still grinning! ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 20:11:25 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: Re: KR> canopy swap To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006101c45fd1$7f5cd390$6501a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Anyone want to sell a KR2 std canopy? KRron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Turner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 6:19 PM Subject: Re: KR> canopy swap > > Brian, I have clear canopy that I got from a guy at our EAA chapter. > It still has the protective coating on it but I think it is for a kr2 not the kr2s. > > Mike Turner > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Kraut > To: KRnet > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 5:46 PM > Subject: KR> canopy swap > > > I have a new tinted Rand 2S canopy that I would like to trade for a untinted > one. I realize it is a long shot, but if anyone has a clear one and wants a > tinted one let me know. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:14:43 -0400 From: "Kenneth B. Jones" Subject: Re: KR> lack of power and over sensitivity To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <03c901c45fd1$f571dc60$8d7ba8c0@oemcomputer> And obvioiusly, still puckering. ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" > > I've come to realize that it is sometimes the pucker in the seat that > pulls the grin on your face. :-) > > Larry Flesner - 70 hours and still grinning! > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:16:27 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> lack of power and over sensitivity To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I completely agree that a KR is not overly sensitive. Spam cans are under sensitive. A KR has a different sensitivity that takes a tiny bit of getting used to. I gave three people some stick time in my KR and they all did the pitch roller coaster for just a few minutes then got used to the sensitivity and flew fine. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dan Heath Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 7:32 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> lack of power and over sensitivity ntly read stuff like this on the net, and persons new to the KR, may believe some of this. I am always reading about how over sensitive the KR is, from people who have never flown one. And then, when a new KR is born all I can read about is how great it flys and what fun it is. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:35:53 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: KR> outboard spar taper To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have an opinion (do I really have to ask?) on the best way to taper the outboard forward spar caps as viewed from the side. There are a couple of ways to do this. Obviously, the spar caps need to be taper from the top view before the spar is built. The plans say to also taper them from the side view before building the spar. The other method is to build the spar and put on the plywood webbing and then taper the caps by running the whole spar through the saw. This seems an easier way with the new airfoil because you will cut the taper and the angle and trim the plywood all at the same time. Anyone see any reason why cutting the taper before building the spar would have any advantage? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 20:57:39 -0500 From: "Bill Page" Subject: KR> comfirmation To: Message-ID: <015701c45fd7$f55237b0$4cd594d0@youryk5cbmeeo8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:10:48 -0500 From: "Bill Page" Subject: KR> comfirmation To: Message-ID: <016501c45fd9$cc2dc4b0$4cd594d0@youryk5cbmeeo8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Please add me to the list. kr-2 serial no. 8165. Aircraft is 99% complete and ready for paint & upholstery. Volkswagen 2180 cc engine, ellison throttlebody carb. Used a dragonfly canopy and Dan Deil wingskins and composit gear. At this point the weight is 565 lbs. I attended Red Oak this past year and plan to attend the gathering again this year. I do not think that I will have the time flown off for cross country travel. Maybe next year. Bill Page 732 Mt. Olive Road Starkville, MS 39759 bpage@netdoor.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:21:49 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> comfirmation To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Your message made it through so you are obviously on the list. Welcome. Do you have any pictures on a web site somewhere? Where is Starkville? I am in the Gulfport and Moss Point area a lot. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Bill Page Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:11 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> comfirmation Please add me to the list. kr-2 serial no. 8165. Aircraft is 99% complete and ready for paint & upholstery. Volkswagen 2180 cc engine, ellison throttlebody carb. Used a dragonfly canopy and Dan Deil wingskins and composit gear. At this point the weight is 565 lbs. I attended Red Oak this past year and plan to attend the gathering again this year. I do not think that I will have the time flown off for cross country travel. Maybe next year. Bill Page 732 Mt. Olive Road Starkville, MS 39759 bpage@netdoor.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 22:18:30 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> over sensitivity To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040701221830.008c6370@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A KR has a different sensitivity that takes a tiny bit of >getting used to. I gave three people some stick time in my KR and they >all did the pitch roller coaster for just a few minutes then got used >to the sensitivity and flew fine. Brian Kraut +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Anyone flying their own KR should have the "KR feel" by the time they do an hour or two fast taxi getting the tail up, cutting the power, then coming to a stop on the runway. The only PIO I had on my first flight was moving the stick too much/too quick on the flare. The hardest, but most important part, is to just stay relaxed. Don't start out with any time goals set in stone as to so many hours of taxi test and then you're going to fly. Wait for all conditions to be right and you'll know it when you feel it. Another thing I practiced several times to get the "feel" for the elevator was to hold the brakes, slowly bring up power, then hold the tail off the ground. It doesn't take but 20 or 30 seconds total to develop the feel. Just approach this maneuver with caution. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 23:46:16 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> over sensitivity To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" And do it with a rope tied to the tail wheel and secured to something that will keep you from going too nose low and breaking a prop if you can. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com Another thing I practiced several times to get the "feel" for the elevator was to hold the brakes, slowly bring up power, then hold the tail off the ground. It doesn't take but 20 or 30 seconds total to develop the feel. Just approach this maneuver with caution. Larry Flesner _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 23:55:18 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> spar skins To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" That is the one thing I don't like about the mahogany ply. It has three plies with the outside plies in the same direction, but they are thinner than the poplar center. All the birch plywood I have seen has plies about the same thickness and I would buy the birch if I did it again. I have no doubts that the mahogany is fine, but I do believe that the birch would be better, not to mention that it costs less. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Wood, Sidney M. Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:21 AM To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> spar skins Plywood has an odd number of plies with outside plies in the same grain orientation. That is the strongest dimension orientation. Sid Wood, Tri-gear KR-2 N6242 Mechanicsville, MD USA sidney.wood@titan.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------ And having said that, here's one from Don Reid where he advocates running the grain horizontal, rather than vertical. I'd trust just about anything Don says as gospel. ---------------------------------------------- Date: Jul 20, 1999 8:27 AM From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: Grain direction.....who cares it's plywood...my turn at a 'STUPID' Question Tim wrote: > Like Aircraft Plywood is either 90 or 45 degrees, I assume this is how > the ply's (3-7) are layered. So grain direction of the top sheet is of > interest, but I wouldn't think the orintation is as critical in > dealing with the Spar web as perhaps Aluminium ..... OK, here are some numbers. Anyone who is interested can make up their own mind. All data are for birch plywood and taken from ANC-18, Design of Wooden Aircraft Structures. (The thick pieces are included just to show the effect with more plys) thickness # plys parallel perpendicular 0.125" 3 15.17 5.544 0.160" 5 21.46 11.47 0.410" 7 131.1 80.91 All plys are equal thickness. The numbers are moment for fiber stress at the proportional limit in units of inch-pounds per inch of width. As to why the KR plans specify a vertical orientation, it is because Ken Rand and Stu Robinson got it wrong. ----------------------------------- Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 129 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================