From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 130 Date: 7/2/2004 6:56:33 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. KR Paint (Timothy Bellville) 2. RE: lack of power and over sensitivity (Doug Rupert) 3. RE: lack of power and over sensitivity -rebuff (Doug Rupert) 4. Tapering outter spars (joe_beyer@netzero.net) 5. Re: outboard spar taper (Boeing757mech1@aol.com) 6. Re: KR Paint (StRaNgEdAyS) 7. Re: outboard spar taper (StRaNgEdAyS) 8. Re: KR Paint (Timothy Bellville) 9. Re: KR Paint (James R Freeman) 10. Please add me to the list (Dan Heath) 11. O200 Prop (GavinandLouise) 12. Corvair availability (Mark Langford) 13. O200 (GavinandLouise) 14. Tapering Outboard Spars (rhartwig11@juno.com) 15. RE: Corvair availability (Brian Kraut) 16. Re: Corvair availability (Peter Waijenberg) 17. Re: outboard spar taper (Mark Langford) 18. outboard spar taper (larry flesner) 19. RE: outboard spar taper (Brian Kraut) 20. RE: KR Paint (Brian Kraut) 21. Re: Tapering Outboard Spars (GavinandLouise) 22. Re: Tapering Outboard Spars (StRaNgEdAyS) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 00:16:24 -0400 From: "Timothy Bellville" Subject: KR> KR Paint To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003601c45feb$57a08f30$9e2b4b0c@HPHome> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well Guys , I am very depressed with what happened today. It was about one week ago that I shot the finel coats of paint on my KR fusalage, and today I decided to finish the wing outer panels . I pulled the fusalage out in to the yard to clear the shop for the wings , in to 85 deg. direct sunlight. after shooting the last coat on the wing, I went out to play with the engine, and discovered to my dismay, that I had bubbles under the new paint in several areas. After talking to the folks at polyfiber, they said that I had solvent outgassing from the primer.Now I will admit that I was some what relived that it wasen't delaminating of the fiberglass,I still have a crappy paint job now. They also said that I picked just about the hardest paint to shoot(Navada Silver), for a novice painter(Me). So after wasting $250 on silver paint I guess I should conform to everyone else and paint it white. I was not completly happy with the paint job before the bubbles now I'm disgusted with it. I do love the color,but I doubt I have the experence to get it to look right. I do not know if I will be ready for Airventure. Damn, looks like I'm driving again. Tim ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 01:49:17 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> lack of power and over sensitivity To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <005601c45ff8$52119a70$3404e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tell that to a couple of those Cessna twins. Doug -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Brian Kraut Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:16 PM To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> lack of power and over sensitivity I completely agree that a KR is not overly sensitive. Spam cans are under sensitive ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 01:49:17 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> lack of power and over sensitivity -rebuff To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <005701c45ff8$53c230a0$3404e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks for the input Larry. Most of the information I am working with has been gleaned from the archives as well as various magazine articles regarding the KR. It's better getting first hand information from a pilot that has built and is actually flying the aircraft. What I said with regards to Jeanette was in no way meant to be derogatory, only an observation of what I have read here on the list. Not interested in pursuing further development (refinements of the breed), lack of parts, seeming indifference to prospective buyers of plans are some of the comments I have read posted by some of the long time builders along with a few of the newer ones. This may be due in part from the constant reminder of Ken and that has to be hard, or maybe she was only having a bad day when contacted, who knows. I have no problem with control sensitivity as am quite used to helicopters with well over a thousand hours in them. BTW the Bell has a hydraulic control actuation system to help keep it under control. Want some real fun, turn off the system and try keeping that fool thing in the air. I do however want a stable bird and not have to fight her every damn minute. I know, find another aircraft but that is not what I want to do. One I cannot afford it and two, I love the challenge. Many of the builders are on the right track with extending the fuselage towards the rear and increasing control surface area. All these changes have in my opinion at least made for a better machine. Larger engine or reduce weight, well engine seems the most sensible way to go here as I don't believe we can further reduce Ken's published empty weight. Let's face it when Ken flew the original times were far different and we were somewhat free to roar the skies with little or no instrumentation or radios. Today we have a whole new ballgame unless you plan on flying off your own property and drilling holes in the immediate area till you get tired and land. We fly for fun, we go places in our aircraft and we need instruments (at least the bare minimum) and we need radios and navigation equipment. This equipment has come a long way in the last few years but still adds precious weight to the bird. This brings us to the engine. The VDub while quite reliable in its original form tends to lose that reliability as we demand more and more from it. The Corvair is a better choice but cores are getting harder to find without spending large dollars. I believe that they are a wise choice for those lucky enough to get them. Soobs/ Hondas/ and others all have water cooling and require PRSUs. What makes the Mazda stand out among the auto engines is it's outstanding reliability, ease of maintenance and overall cost to replace should that become needed. Add the fact that the rotary has no valve train to cause vibration or failure, Gobs of horsepower and torque, the overall weight of the engine itself and it seems the best candidate for aviation needs. Aviation engines are good but are pricey to buy and even pricier to maintain and repair, although some of the older engines can be had for a song they still have the high maintenance bill. I'm open to any and all ideas here folks as I'm still in the process of changing from the RAF 48 to the AS series airfoil. Doug ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 06:16:31 GMT From: "joe_beyer@netzero.net" Subject: KR> Tapering outter spars To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20040701.231714.7800.177029@webmail18.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain The best tool to use is a band saw. I didn't have one so I had to use a wood plane. It's doing it the hard way but It was all I had available to me at the time. I sanded the spar cap smooth before doing the assembly. You can also use a table saw as shown in the plans. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 04:18:12 EDT From: Boeing757mech1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> outboard spar taper To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20.2d5a6ebb.2e167444@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 7/1/2004 6:36:38 PM US Mountain Standard Time, brian.kraut@engalt.com writes: Anyone see any reason why cutting the taper before building the spar would have any advantage? Yeah, I the spar is 8.190" of an in thick at the root. Good luck finding a saw that will cut that deep. I used a 3000 dollar delta chimerical table saw and it could only cut 3" in depth. If I had it to do over again I would do it the same way and that is build a sled to push though the saw. If you build it right your spars will clamp down to it and all four caps will be within a few thousand of an inch. After you cut the taper on the fwd side of the caps you will have to start thinking upper right and lower left, upper left and lower right for the next two sleds. You will need to build 3 in all and this can all be done in one day. I saved all of the tooling I have made just in case I finish this one and want to build another. The only difference I would make is buying spar stock that is thicker than what the plans call for. I would then plane it down on a joiner to make it strait, true and square. For the center spar caps I would add at least a half of an inch to the vertical thickness and for the outer caps I would do the same at the root to allow plenty of room for placement of the wing attach fittings. Also make sure you use the correct blade in you table saw for ripping and cross cutting, you might want to ask you local wood working supply shop for the correct blade that will give a good glue joint when cross cutting or ripping but be prepared to spend 150 dollars for each blade. I would bet I have a 1000 tied up in just in saw blades alone. If any one would like to see pics of my sleds I will be happy to dig them out of the attic and snap a few digital pics. Chris Theroux Gilbert, Az ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 18:40:09 +1000 From: "StRaNgEdAyS" Subject: Re: KR> KR Paint To: Message-ID: <40E51F69.000061.02628@motherfucker> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey there Tim. Don't loose heart. I remember making some horrible mess ups when I started painting cars and bikes back in the late '80s. One job I totally stuffed up in '96 even after a lot of practice was a tank on one of my bikes. That was layering clear red tinter over flat white to get a deep blood red effect, but I did exactly the same thing you did, and failed to wait until the solvent had completely gone from the basecoat before I layered up 5 coats of clear red. It looked absolutely scary! Paint up a few pieces of scrap and get the hang of it. I'm no professional painter, but after doing a few practice pieces after even an 8 year break from painting as I have had now, I can manage a reasonable job. Cheers. Peter Bancks. strangedays@dodo.com.au http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 19:11:22 +1000 From: "StRaNgEdAyS" Subject: Re: KR> outboard spar taper To: Message-ID: <40E526BA.000063.02628@motherfucker> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" "If any one would like to see pics of my sleds I will be happy to dig them out of the attic and snap a few digital pics." Hey there Chris. I'd be interested in those pics. One thing I'll be doing is outsourcing the cutting of my spar caps, but if at a later stage I want to do it myself on another plane (npi) I'd be willing to bet those pics would be helpful. Once I've got my caps laminated, I'll be taking them along with an IGES file of my CAD caps to the local hardwood mill, who for a token sum will run them through their CNC mill, thus giving me absolutely perfectly finished spars that will even match the AS5048/5 airfoil curve. One of the benefits to living in a small timber town in the middle of nowhere is that it doesn't take long for people to get wind of interesting projects, and there has been plenty of people who are more than willing to lend a hand to the insane couple who are building planes! Cheers, Peter Bancks strangedays@dodo.com.au http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 05:26:17 -0400 From: "Timothy Bellville" Subject: Re: KR> KR Paint To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000d01c46016$a16f27e0$f42b4b0c@HPHome> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks Peter, After sleeping on it I still don't feel much better about it, but I still think I should go with the white.The guy from poly fiber said I should wait a week before sanding the bad areas down and re coating,he also sugested not repriming the silver. I have been thinking that maybe I need to put her back in the sun to" Bake " her again and identify the bad areas, then trim out the bubble with a razor knife to release the trapped solvent and remove the loose paint.I think this would allow me to feather edge the damaged areas without disturbing the good paint to much. It will take about three days to get the new paint from aircraft spruce,and for my next weekend off to paint it. God I hate waisting money and time. Thanks Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "StRaNgEdAyS" To: Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 4:40 AM Subject: Re: KR> KR Paint > Hey there Tim. > > Don't loose heart. > I remember making some horrible mess ups when I started painting cars > and bikes back in the late '80s. One job I totally stuffed up in '96 > even after > a lot of practice was a tank on one of my bikes. That was layering > clear red > tinter over flat white to get a deep blood red effect, but I did > exactly the > same thing you did, and failed to wait until the solvent had > completely gone > from the basecoat before I layered up 5 coats of clear red. It looked > absolutely scary! Paint up a few pieces of scrap and get the hang of > it. I'm no professional painter, but after doing a few practice pieces > after even an 8 year break from painting as I have had now, I can > manage a reasonable job. > > Cheers. > Peter Bancks. > strangedays@dodo.com.au > http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 00:53:33 -0400 From: James R Freeman Subject: Re: KR> KR Paint To: KRnet Message-ID: <01d201c45ff0$a670da20$2f4c3540@HP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Tim: Sorry to hear about the paint job. I wanted to see some pics of the silver KR. Did the Polyfiber people say if a second coat would work? Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Bellville" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 12:16 AM Subject: KR> KR Paint > Well Guys , I am very depressed with what happened today. It was about > one week ago that I shot the finel coats of paint on my KR fusalage, > and today I > decided to finish the wing outer panels . I pulled the fusalage out in > to the yard to clear the shop for the wings , in to 85 deg. direct > sunlight. after shooting the last coat on the wing, I went out to play > with the engine, and discovered to my dismay, that I had bubbles > under the new paint > in several areas. > After talking to the folks at polyfiber, they said that I had solvent > outgassing from the primer.Now I will admit that I was some what > relived that it wasen't delaminating of the fiberglass,I still have a > crappy paint job now. They also said that I picked just about the > hardest paint to shoot(Navada Silver), for a novice painter(Me). > So after wasting $250 on silver paint I guess I should conform to everyone > else and paint it white. > I was not completly happy with the paint job before the bubbles now I'm > disgusted with it. I do love the color,but I doubt I have the experence to > get it to look right. > I do not know if I will be ready for Airventure. > Damn, looks like I'm driving again. > Tim > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 06:52:13 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Please add me to the list To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40E53E5D.00000B.03356@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bill, Welcome, I guess you are on the list now. 99% complete, where have you been? Got pics? "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 21:03:57 +1000 From: "GavinandLouise" Subject: KR> O200 Prop To: "KR builders and pilots" Message-ID: <00e301c46024$48bdbd60$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Larry could you contact me off the list please I'm interested in what prop you are using on your O200? Gavin --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 27/06/2004 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 06:31:12 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> Corvair availability To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004901c46028$14fc1680$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Doug Rupert wrote: >The Corvair is a better choice but cores are getting harder to find >without spending large dollars.< I've paid exactly a hundred bucks for all four of the Corvair engines that I've bought. The MOST I've ever heard of anybody paying for one was $500, and that's the only one. $300 is considered "high". They are somewhat difficult to find immediately, but if you don't mind waiting a month or two, one will come up. Probably once a month somebody comes up with a few on the CorvAircraft list, and offers them to the other listers at no profit. They are usually $100-200. Even $500 may sound high, but when you consider that you'll have about $2500 in parts in it when you're done, the original purchase price just about pales into insignificance. The closest "Corsa" chapter is another excellent place to find engines too. That's where I got mine, located 90 miles away in Birmingham. There's a little more info on this at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/donors.html . I'll confess that they are sufficiently hard to find that I bought four (just in case I decide to build a twin next), but cost is not a real issue, unless you want one TODAY... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 21:02:25 +1000 From: "GavinandLouise" Subject: KR> O200 To: "KR builders and pilots" Message-ID: <00da01c46024$102b9f80$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Isn't it amazing that after all this time planning on putting a Subaru EJ22 in my KR2S I've just found a Continental O200 to use. Should be about 50 or 60 pounds lighter too and direct drive !!!!!! Now I've just got to rebuild it. Gavin Look out LKarry I'm coming to get you!!!! --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 27/06/2004 ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 06:43:34 -0500 From: rhartwig11@juno.com Subject: KR> Tapering Outboard Spars To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20040702.064334.3192.2.rhartwig11@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Would-be-builders, don't despair, it is not necessary to spend a lot of money on saw blades or table saw. When I built my KR2 airframe in about 1974 I did not have a table saw. I built what amounted to a small box out of particle board, screwed a used Skil circular saw to the inside of what would become the top and plunged the blade through. The blade was a 7 1/4" Sears hollow ground cabinet blade (not a carbide blade). This blade is very cheap, cuts a surface as smooth as a planer and you can rip all of the spruce for a KR2 without sharpening (A few years later I used the same blade in a table saw, without sharpening, to cut all of the rib caps and fuselage material for a Pietenpol.) The fence was a straight board clamped to the top. My taper sled was a straight board with a block attached to each end. A nail was driven through the block and into the end grain of the spar material. The result was a good glue surface on a very accurately cut spar cap. You can spend a lot of time and money on tooling that you only need once--better to spend both on the actual construction of the airplane. Dick Hartwig Waunakee, WI rhartwig11@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 07:52:35 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Corvair availability To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You can also buy a core from William Wynn for $300. That is what I did since he is not far from me and I knew I was getting the rigt models of everything. Considering that everything was disassembled, fairly clean, and checked I think his price is a bargain. You also sometimes have to buy more than one junkyard engine to be sure you have all the right parts in good shape so $300 for all good parts is a good deal. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Langford Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:31 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Corvair availability Doug Rupert wrote: >The Corvair is a better choice but cores are getting harder to find >without spending large dollars.< I've paid exactly a hundred bucks for all four of the Corvair engines that I've bought. The MOST I've ever heard of anybody paying for one was $500, and that's the only one. $300 is considered "high". They are somewhat difficult to find immediately, but if you don't mind waiting a month or two, one will come up. Probably once a month somebody comes up with a few on the CorvAircraft list, and offers them to the other listers at no profit. They are usually $100-200. Even $500 may sound high, but when you consider that you'll have about $2500 in parts in it when you're done, the original purchase price just about pales into insignificance. The closest "Corsa" chapter is another excellent place to find engines too. That's where I got mine, located 90 miles away in Birmingham. There's a little more info on this at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/donors.html . I'll confess that they are sufficiently hard to find that I bought four (just in case I decide to build a twin next), but cost is not a real issue, unless you want one TODAY... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 05:15:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Peter Waijenberg Subject: Re: KR> Corvair availability To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040702121548.35830.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I wish i could find a corvair engine in Europe. Importing a engine i will have to pay the price plus $500 for transport. Then on top of that for all the spares plus transport. Looking at Subaru now because it is easier to find in Europe. --- Mark Langford wrote: > Doug Rupert wrote: > > >The Corvair is a better choice but cores are > getting harder to find without > spending large dollars.< > > I've paid exactly a hundred bucks for all four of > the Corvair engines that > I've bought. The MOST I've ever heard of anybody > paying for one was $500, > and that's the only one. $300 is considered "high". > They are somewhat > difficult to find immediately, but if you don't mind > waiting a month or two, > one will come up. Probably once a month somebody > comes up with a few on the > CorvAircraft list, and offers them to the other > listers at no profit. They > are usually $100-200. Even $500 may sound high, but > when you consider that > you'll have about $2500 in parts in it when you're > done, the original > purchase price just about pales into insignificance. > The closest "Corsa" > chapter is another excellent place to find engines > too. That's where I got > mine, located 90 miles away in Birmingham. There's > a little more info on > this at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/donors.html > . > > I'll confess that they are sufficiently hard to find > that I bought four > (just in case I decide to build a twin next), but > cost is not a real issue, > unless you want one TODAY... > > Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL > N56ML at hiwaay.net > see KR2S project N56ML at > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 07:18:39 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> outboard spar taper To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008801c4602e$b5887e80$5e0ca58c@net.tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dick Hartwig wrote: > Would-be-builders, don't despair, it is not necessary to spend a lot > of money on saw blades or table saw. I agree wholeheartedly. I did it the way the plans recommend (or maybe it was an old Newsletter) on a tablesaw. I don't know how it could be much easier. Taper required a little "backwards" thinking, but it's entirely do-able. See http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kspars.html for details. You could also do it with a belt sander or planer if you're careful by marking a line on both front and back and sanding to it. But you have to be careful with measuring and cutting no matter how you do it... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 07:32:39 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> outboard spar taper To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040702073239.008ca320@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Yeah, I the spar is 8.190" of an in thick at the root. Good luck >finding a >saw that will cut that deep. I used a 3000 dollar delta chimerical table saw and >it could only cut 3" in depth. If I had it to do over again I would do >it the >same way and that is build a sled to push though the saw. Chris Theroux +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Years ago on the net or in the newsletter someone suggested tappering only one side of the outboard caps. That also gave 90 degree glue joints on the upright spacers. That could be done after the spar is assembled. I don't know if this is an acceptable method or not. I cut my caps with a "plywood" blade on a radial arm saw that was 20 years old at the time. It was one of the few jobs on my entire project that required the help of a second person. I clamped the cap to a "sled" and slid it down the fence. Build a nice "sled" and place some block clamps on it that screw down. It takes a few minutes longer to set up for each cut but requires less time and expense in the long run. Simple is usually best. Try not to turn the project into brain surgery. For those attending the Gathering I plan to show you how you can build/rig your wing center section to within 1/10 of a degree using bubble levels. Sign up now. Classes are filling fast! :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 08:40:46 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> outboard spar taper To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I guess I did not phrase my question clearly. Several people replied with good ideas on how to cut the taper, but I already have that method down. As far as the spar being too thick at the root to cut the taper, I understand that the taper in that direction should be done before the spars are built. The spars are tapered in two different directions and my question was is there any advantage to doing the second taper before the spars are built instead of after. It is fairly easy to do the second taper after they are built and Mark's site shows how he did a good job of it. As far as what method is used to do the actual cut, that is what I have been working on for a few days. After doing a lot of searching I found that the best thing would be a Festool. http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/decoder_festoolsaw.asp The Festool has guide rails you can buy 12' long, clamp to the cap, and just slide the saw for a perfect straight taper. Only problem is the whole setup was about $700 for something I would only need once. What I am doing now is the sled through the table saw method like Mark shows on his site. Since I don't have as good of a saw, don't have cabinets the right height to extend the table, and I am not as good with it I added a few things to ensure a perfect cut. First, I started with a 10" wide piece of shelf board and ran it through the planer twice on each side to make it nice and flat and smooth. Then I screwed a piece of 2 X 2 X 1/8" aluminum angle 10' long to one side so I would have a perfect straight side against the rip fence. Then I clamped a 12' piece of 4 X 1.5 X 1/4" aluminum C channel to the rip fence for the ultimate straight long rip fence which really helps on long stock. Then I clamped 10" wide strips of plywood under the C channel on the blade side so I have essentially made my self a 12' long table for the table saw to keep the ends of the stock from rocking up and down. I also bought a Bench Dog feather board which does an incredible job keeping the stock tight against the rip fence and solves what used to be my biggest problem with running long stock through the saw. I have pictures and will put them on a web site as soon as this roll of film is done. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Boeing757mech1@aol.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 4:18 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR> outboard spar taper Anyone see any reason why cutting the taper before building the spar would have any advantage? Yeah, I the spar is 8.190" of an in thick at the root. Good luck finding a saw that will cut that deep. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 08:47:03 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> KR Paint To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Don't feel too bad. It is probably not as bad as you think. All the prep work before you paint is what takes a long time. You may be able to fix it easier than it looks right now. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Timothy Bellville Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 5:26 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> KR Paint Thanks Peter, After sleeping on it I still don't feel much better about it, but I still think I should go with the white.The guy from poly fiber said I should wait a week before sanding the bad areas down and re coating,he also sugested not repriming the silver. I have been thinking that maybe I need to put her back in the sun to" Bake " her again and identify the bad areas, then trim out the bubble with a razor knife to release the trapped solvent and remove the loose paint.I think this would allow me to feather edge the damaged areas without disturbing the good paint to much. It will take about three days to get the new paint from aircraft spruce,and for my next weekend off to paint it. God I hate waisting money and time. Thanks Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "StRaNgEdAyS" To: Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 4:40 AM Subject: Re: KR> KR Paint > Hey there Tim. > > Don't loose heart. > I remember making some horrible mess ups when I started painting cars and > bikes back in the late '80s. One job I totally stuffed up in '96 even after > a lot of practice was a tank on one of my bikes. That was layering clear red > tinter over flat white to get a deep blood red effect, but I did exactly the > same thing you did, and failed to wait until the solvent had completely gone > from the basecoat before I layered up 5 coats of clear red. It looked > absolutely scary! > Paint up a few pieces of scrap and get the hang of it. I'm no professional > painter, but after doing a few practice pieces after even an 8 year break > from painting as I have had now, I can manage a reasonable job. > > Cheers. > Peter Bancks. > strangedays@dodo.com.au > http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com > http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 21:50:56 +1000 From: "GavinandLouise" Subject: Re: KR> Tapering Outboard Spars To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <013e01c4602a$d6041060$0100000a@vic.bigpond.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I can't understand what all the fuss is about !! It's just a case of using basic hand tools. Go back to basics and mark out all of your spar dimensions and get a good quality hand plane. You'll be surprised how quickly the excess material can be planed away, and accurately too. That's how all of mine were done and they are perfect. Gavin Australia P.S I'm a metal worke not a wood worker. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 9:43 PM Subject: KR> Tapering Outboard Spars > Would-be-builders, don't despair, it is not necessary to spend a lot of > money on saw blades or table saw. When I built my KR2 airframe in about > 1974 I did not have a table saw. I built what amounted to a small box > out of particle board, screwed a used Skil circular saw to the inside of > what would become the top and plunged the blade through. The blade was a > 7 1/4" Sears hollow ground cabinet blade (not a carbide blade). This > blade is very cheap, cuts a surface as smooth as a planer and you can rip > all of the spruce for a KR2 without sharpening (A few years later I used > the same blade in a table saw, without sharpening, to cut all of the rib > caps and fuselage material for a Pietenpol.) The fence was a straight > board clamped to the top. My taper sled was a straight board with a > block attached to each end. A nail was driven through the block and into > the end grain of the spar material. The result was a good glue surface > on a very accurately cut spar cap. You can spend a lot of time and money > on tooling that you only need once--better to spend both on the actual > construction of the airplane. > Dick Hartwig > Waunakee, WI > rhartwig11@juno.com > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 27/06/2004 ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 23:55:15 +1000 From: "StRaNgEdAyS" Subject: Re: KR> Tapering Outboard Spars To: Message-ID: <40E56942.000065.02628@motherfucker> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Gavin said: "I can't understand what all the fuss is about !! It's just a case of using basic hand tools. Go back to basics and mark out all of your spar dimensions and get a good quality hand plane. You'll be surprised how quickly the excess material can be planed away, and accurately too. That's how all of mine were done and they are perfect." Hear! hear! The only reason I'm getting mine done by CNC is because I can and it's a cheap, easy and accurate option for me. I don't have a table saw and before the gentleman at the mill made his offer to me, this is exactly how I was going to do them myself. Sometime the simplest solutions are in plane sight ;-) Cheers. Peter Bancks strangedays@dodo.com.au http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 130 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================