From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 15 Date: 4/7/2004 10:42:06 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: elevator mass balancing!! (Stephen Jacobs) 2. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (Dan Heath) 3. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (Dana Overall) 4. Re: Re: KR> Bbq at S-n-F (Dana Overall) 5. Opening the Engine Pt 3 (Orma Robbins) 6. Wheel positionong (Gavin Donohoe) 7. RE: Wheel positionong (Philip Maley) 8. Re: Painting - Should I shoot another layer of primer (Wayne Israelsen) 9. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (joe) 10. Spar Integrity (joe) 11. RE: Spar Integrity (Stephen Jacobs) 12. Update !!! (Mark Jones) 13. Re: Update !!! - Mark Jones. (Dan Heath) 14. RE: Update !!! (Brian Kraut) 15. Re: Update !!! (Mark Jones) 16. RE: Update !!! (Brian Kraut) 17. Re: Spar Integrity (joe) 18. Re: Update !!! (Mark Jones) 19. KR2 aircraft model in new DUATS flight planner (John Bouyea) 20. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (Phillip Matheson) 21. Fw: KR-2S Plans (Phillip Matheson) 22. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (Dana Overall) 23. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (larry severson) 24. Re: elevator mass balancing!! (Dana Overall) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 11:37:08 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c41bba$bd073650$4664a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> I have ,for sometime been concerned >>>> Reasons >>>> 1. twisting of the elevator tips >>>> 2. the mass balance arm and mountings must be able to carry 15 times >>>> the weight of the mass balance Thank you for the head-up on that - never really stopped to think about the G forces also acting on the balance weights. Not only is this force trying to pull the weights off the control surface - but if the weights are attached away from the control linkage - there will be a further tendency to "twist" the control surface (under G). Not sure why he wants as much as 15G ability. Torsional rigidity (lack of) is a contributing factor for flutter and I believe that the tendency to use thicker airfoil sections (up to 9%) on the stab will improve this as a potential weakness. Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 05:43:36 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40727BC8.000017.03124@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: He could not believe the plans do not insist on a gusset welded to the mass balance arm to stop cracking failure. He is most likely correct. Or you could use steel. For those of you who were not at the gathering last year, Jim Faughn had exactly this failure. He had it repaired while at the gathering and I think that he has replaced the aluminum arms with steel, but you need to ask him for the real story. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:19:32 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "Steve and Lori McGee" >15 Gs - hahhah - hehheh - in a tail, thats a good one. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Phillip Matheson" > > Reasons > > 1. twisting of the elevator tips > > 2. the mass balance arm and mountings must be able to carry 15 times > > the weight of the mass balance ( 12 times minimum and 3 for safety > > factor). > > >From this I would be concerned at adding 4130 lead filled tubing or >similar > > to my elevator tips. Steve, I respectfully mention you may want to rethink your comment. Several factors are present in the structural integrity of balance weights positioned forward of the pivot line on aircraft control surfaces. I'm sure an educated structural engineer like Mark or Don could chime in here to expound on my comments but yes, G load would be a consideration due to the forward extended moment of the counterbalance center. As the moment increases, so does the required integrity of the potential point of failure. A pull of G-factor on the airframe would result in an increased load factor on an arm supporting an extended moment/weight combination. Think of it this way: Would 1 lb. positioned at a moment of 8 inches exert the same failure mode as 1 lb. positioned at a moment of 2 inches when introduced to a 4 G pull. I just spent Friday, Sat and Sunday at a formation clinic using the T-34 formation flight manual for a wingman card to allow formation flight performace inside waivered airspace. The carrier brake from echelon requires a 2.5-4 G pull from a 60 degree bank at 150. While this may seem docile to some, remember the load factor on the flying surfaces increase at back increases. Just food for thougt. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS forms and more! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2004 07:26:06 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: Re: KR> Bbq at S-n-F To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Just another thought here. Previously I have hosted a very successful Beer and Brats at SNF. Had well over 50 there last year. Since I am flying in this year with Langford and Doug Steen, I'm not going to load the airplane down. Jimmy Buffet now has three tents at show center appropriately called "Margarettaville". They serve adult beverages and the best food at SNF. Saturday night is the night airshow. Why not organize a very informal KR get together at Margarettaville around 5-6PM on Saturday, eat dinner, drink a cold one, watch the airshow and retire to a campground for some hangar flying. Easy, not need to organize and a lot of fun. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Multiple plans available. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 20:42:52 -0400 From: "Orma Robbins" Subject: KR> Opening the Engine Pt 3 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <03ee01c41bcc$0d205e80$e33ed445@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Net I started the day investigating my prop hub installation. Again I laid the type 2 crank and My type 4 crank side by side. Here are the numbers: #4 bearing Journal T2 = 1.569 T4 = 1.569; #4 bearing OD vs. Hub OD 1.971 and 1.969; #4 bearing ID vs. Hub ID 1.573 and 1.570. I measured the bearing recesses in both cases and they were the same even though the T4 hub had been riding inside of that recess. Next I removed the fan support hub and the prop hub for a comparison of the tapered ends on the two cranks. The external appearance of both cranks is the same at the taper with the exception of the key slot. The T4 key slot was double the size of the T2 slot. The bolt hole on the T4 had been enlarged to accept a 1/2 in fine threaded bolt and was deep drilled. As for the prop hub, the size of it is designed to fit over an original crank which only needs to be modified by cutting a larger keyway and drill/tapping for the bolt. Orma L. Robbins Southfield MI 19 Years flying KR-2 N110LR http://www.aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:50:07 +1000 From: "Gavin Donohoe" Subject: KR> Wheel positionong To: "KR builders and pilots" Message-ID: <003901c41bd5$b11f0280$174d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Hi all, I'm fabricating my own Gear legs for a tricycle undercarriage on a KR2S. How far should the wheel axle centre be behind the rear of the front spar ??? Thanks Gav --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.648 / Virus Database: 415 - Release Date: 31/03/2004 ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:59:24 +0800 From: "Philip Maley" Subject: RE: KR> Wheel positionong To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <014c01c41bd6$fece49e0$0301a8c0@wotech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Gavin This has been discussed before on the list so a search of the archive should yield results (see below). I'd love to see the details of what you are doing so please post them on a web site somewhere (maybe Mark Langford could put the details somewhere on his site or I could put it on mine). On October 23, 2002 Mark Jones said "The centerline of the main gear axles, on the Diehl trigear, is 4 inches aft of the main spar." For a tailwheel configuration, one drawing I have shows the axle 7 inches forward of the front face of the main spar and 13.5 inches below the bottom face (tailwheel configuration). Cheers Phil Maley Perth, Australia -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Donohoe Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:50 PM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR> Wheel positionong Hi all, I'm fabricating my own Gear legs for a tricycle undercarriage on a KR2S. How far should the wheel axle centre be behind the rear of the front spar ??? ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 08:39:13 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" Subject: Re: KR> Painting - Should I shoot another layer of primer To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002801c41bed$50571560$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" As a painter I'll put in my .02 here. You would probably be OK with just spraying on the finish. However if there is going to be a reaction between one of the primers and the finish. You won't find out untill it is too late. The bright side of this is that you get to start sanding again;-). If you are this far, be safe, most finish systems have a base sealer that is applied prior to color. Save some heart ache and use a finish system rather than just buying a gallon of your favorite color. With that I will also tell you that I have mixed lots of different system with good success. Thanks Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Heath To: ; Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 3:53 PM Subject: Re: KR> Painting - Should I shoot another layer of primer > Well, I'll let you know how it goes after I paint mine. I'll bet that > no local paint person knows anything about Smooth Prime. > Subject: Re: KR> Painting - Should I shoot another layer of primer > > > > "it is primer, so it is OK." > > > > . I personally would rather > > spray the entire project uniformly just to make sure that the paint > did not > > curdle and cause me to have to re-accomplish part of all of my work. > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:58:17 -0700 From: "joe" Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002701c41c33$07f7b2c0$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dana, I flew the T-34 through departure stalls, which when held were violent. I found it difficult to fly through 60 degrees at 150. Anyone else familiar care to comment? Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 4:19 AM Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! > >From: "Steve and Lori McGee" > >15 Gs - hahhah - hehheh - in a tail, thats a good one. > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Phillip Matheson" > > > Reasons > > > 1. twisting of the elevator tips > > > 2. the mass balance arm and mountings must be able to carry 15 > > > times the > > > weight of the mass balance > > > ( 12 times minimum and 3 for safety factor). > > > >From this I would be concerned at adding 4130 lead filled tubing > > > >or > >similar > > > to my elevator tips. > > > Steve, I respectfully mention you may want to rethink your comment. Several > factors are present in the structural integrity of balance weights > positioned forward of the pivot line on aircraft control surfaces. > I'm sure > an educated structural engineer like Mark or Don could chime in here > to expound on my comments but yes, G load would be a consideration due > to the forward extended moment of the counterbalance center. As the > moment increases, so does the required integrity of the potential > point of failure. > A pull of G-factor on the airframe would result in an increased load > factor on an arm supporting an extended moment/weight combination. > Think of > it this way: Would 1 lb. positioned at a moment of 8 inches exert the same > failure mode as 1 lb. positioned at a moment of 2 inches when > introduced to > a 4 G pull. > > I just spent Friday, Sat and Sunday at a formation clinic using the > T-34 formation flight manual for a wingman card to allow formation > flight performace inside waivered airspace. The carrier brake from > echelon requires a 2.5-4 G pull from a 60 degree bank at 150. While > this may seem docile to some, remember the load factor on the flying > surfaces increase at > back increases. > > Just food for thougt. > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS > forms and > more! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 17:20:39 -0700 From: "joe" Subject: KR> Spar Integrity To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003e01c41c36$28583e60$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Just a reminder(probably not needed here), that increasing the structural integrity along one axis may also call for compensation along other axis. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 02:27:45 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Spar Integrity To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000301c41c37$29353b70$5864a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> Just a reminder(probably not needed here), that increasing the >>> structural integrity along one axis may also call for compensation >>> along other axis. Roger that Joe - I am reading as much as I can on that. Are you referring to wing rigidity in twisting as the other axis? I read things about guys doing regular 6G pull-ups with a heavy KR and must except that the stock KR wing is pretty strong as it is (if built right). Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:15:16 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Update !!! To: "Corvaircraft" , "KR Net" Message-ID: <004d01c41c46$2b3ca660$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" As of tonight: Fuselage...complete Cockpit...complete Instruments....complete Engine & prop....complete Tail feathers and controls....complete Canopy....almost complete (must install latches) Fuselage lighting....complete Fuel system....complete Fuselage primer and body work.....close Things left to do....build outboard wings...fly baby fly. Last weekend, I had an inspection by an EAA Technical counselors and two of his partners. They went over my plane with a fine tooth comb. The inspection passed with flying colors. They were extremely impressed with the Corvair engine installation and could not believe how smooth that engine runs. They also stated it was really nice to inspect a plans built plane which showed true craftsmanship and innovations and not just a kit like most everyone else builds. They called this the true art of building a plane, the grassroots which everyone else evolved from. To say the least, I am very proud of their report on my plane and am really pumped to get it finished. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:40:34 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Update !!! - Mark Jones. To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40736A22.000001.02320@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Go baby Go. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:43:31 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Update !!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hold the canopy closed with vise grips, finish the paint with a few cans of Rustoleum, and have Mark FedEx you his outboard wings and you can make it to Sun and Fun! Did you finish the subs and not start the outboard wings yet? I guess there is no problem with doing that, I have just never seen it done that way. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Jones Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:15 PM To: Corvaircraft; KR Net Subject: KR> Update !!! As of tonight: Fuselage...complete Cockpit...complete Instruments....complete Engine & prop....complete Tail feathers and controls....complete Canopy....almost complete (must install latches) Fuselage lighting....complete Fuel system....complete Fuselage primer and body work.....close Things left to do....build outboard wings...fly baby fly. Last weekend, I had an inspection by an EAA Technical counselors and two of his partners. They went over my plane with a fine tooth comb. The inspection passed with flying colors. They were extremely impressed with the Corvair engine installation and could not believe how smooth that engine runs. They also stated it was really nice to inspect a plans built plane which showed true craftsmanship and innovations and not just a kit like most everyone else builds. They called this the true art of building a plane, the grassroots which everyone else evolved from. To say the least, I am very proud of their report on my plane and am really pumped to get it finished. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 21:52:00 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Update !!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007601c41c4b$4cdb9380$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" > > Did you finish the subs and not start the outboard wings yet? I guess there > is no problem with doing that, I have just never seen it done that > way. Heck...I did not know there was any other way. My out board wings are framed, as in spars, ribs, and wing tanks done. Need to install lights, pitot & static tubes, run a few wires, glass, paint etc. How are you doing your wings where they will match the stubs if you do not do the stubs first? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:02:34 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Update !!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was referring to glassing it all as one piece and then cutting the outboards off. I am guessing that you are going to cover the stubs with bagging film or something, bolt on the spars, then glass the outboards just up to the stubs? Or are the outboards stiff enough with just the spars and ribs that you can glass them off the plane? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mark Jones Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:52 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Update !!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" > > Did you finish the subs and not start the outboard wings yet? I guess there > is no problem with doing that, I have just never seen it done that > way. Heck...I did not know there was any other way. My out board wings are framed, as in spars, ribs, and wing tanks done. Need to install lights, pitot & static tubes, run a few wires, glass, paint etc. How are you doing your wings where they will match the stubs if you do not do the stubs first? Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:06:11 -0700 From: "joe" Subject: Re: KR> Spar Integrity To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000501c41c4d$48071620$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The KR has very good structural integrity, as everyone well knows. However, when we hear of someone doing a 6g pullup, it does not usually refer to a quick jerk of the stick, which can pull the wings off most aircraft, and has in the case of early Bxxxxxxxts. You rightly point out the twisting of the longitudinal axis which is called flutter along this axis usually tested between the cockpit and the tail. Refer to Lancair Ground Vibration Testing along this axis for a more complete explanation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Jacobs" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 5:27 PM Subject: RE: KR> Spar Integrity > >>> Just a reminder(probably not needed here), that increasing the > >>> structural integrity along one axis may also call for compensation > >>> along other axis. > > > Roger that Joe - I am reading as much as I can on that. Are you > referring to wing rigidity in twisting as the other axis? > > I read things about guys doing regular 6G pull-ups with a heavy KR and > must except that the stock KR wing is pretty strong as it is (if built > right). > > Steve J > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:13:10 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Update !!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008001c41c4e$41cb8420$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Now I understand.....yes, it is possible to glass them off the plane if you have built the frame rigid enough. The way I am doing mine is to have the frame of the wing mounted to the stub wing. The aluminum outboard wing tanks are then installed and floxed and foamed in place. My tanks take up half of each outboard wing. Once the tanks are installed the frame will be so rigid that it will not twist or distort during installation of the skins. By doing mine this way, the bolt pattern will match exactly with the stub WAF's.....but I do like your idea of having Langford send me his so I can get in the air sooner. I even offered to buy them from him two years ago when he left his soldering iron on and caught his fuselage on fire. For some reason he would not sell them to me. Must have been one of those April 1st things or either he was worried about liability issues. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:02 PM Subject: RE: KR> Update !!! > I was referring to glassing it all as one piece and then cutting the > outboards off. I am guessing that you are going to cover the stubs > with bagging film or something, bolt on the spars, then glass the > outboards just > up to the stubs? Or are the outboards stiff enough with just the > spars and > ribs that you can glass them off the plane? > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of Mark Jones > Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:52 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: Re: KR> Update !!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Kraut" > > > > Did you finish the subs and not start the outboard wings yet? I > > guess > there > > is no problem with doing that, I have just never seen it done that > > way. > > Heck...I did not know there was any other way. My out board wings are > framed, as in spars, ribs, and wing tanks done. Need to install > lights, pitot & static tubes, run a few wires, glass, paint etc. > > How are you doing your wings where they will match the stubs if you do > not do the stubs first? > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 22:32:58 -0700 From: "John Bouyea" Subject: KR> KR2 aircraft model in new DUATS flight planner To: "KRNet" Message-ID: <000001c41c61$c95542b0$0201a8c0@dell4600> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey guys. This is not an advertisement. I do want to tell you that the new DUATS weather briefing and flight planning tool went to duplication today. Approximately 7000 copies of the program will be distributed at Sun & Fun in Buildings B & D. The basic program and access to DUATS is free. A little bird told me the default selected aircraft is a KR2 performance model. There are many other airplane models in the software a user can pick. The FIRST one they'll see is our little favorite. Just doing my part to "spread the word." John Bouyea KR2 - hanging the engine accessories KR2S - boat hanging from the rafters john_0310@bouyea.net www.bouyea.net ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:49:18 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003e01c41c64$11f9afe0$bb97dccb@ralf> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Steve and Lori McGee" >15 Gs - hahhah - hehheh - in a tail, thats a good one. > --------------- I may have made a mistake, with the 15 times factor, he may have said 13. But it was quite considerable, I'm not qualified to give this information, I can only pass it on. So please do not shoot the messenger. But I only hope it makes us ask questions when we modify something. I at least went to the trouble to find out from someone qualified. Mark , Don, Dana, Dan and others Please keep the information flowing on this great KRnet. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and home built Parts and Kits at: http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:14:40 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: KR> Fw: KR-2S Plans To: "KR Net List" Message-ID: <00ba01c41c67$9d0cfda0$bb97dccb@ralf> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" John, A fellow builder in Australia, is looking for a set of KR2S plans, his email is listed below. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and home built Parts and Kits at: http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bavo" To: Sent: 07 April 2004 12:25 Subject: [saaa_ch20] KR-2S Plans > Do you have a set of plans for a KR-2S they are no longer using? Or do > you know of anyone who has a friend/brother/cousin/neighbour/etc who > does? Please let me know. > Thanks, > John. > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saaa_ch20/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > saaa_ch20-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 06:12:29 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "joe" >Dana, > I flew the T-34 through departure stalls, which when held were >violent. >I >found it difficult to fly through 60 >degrees at 150. Anyone else familiar care to comment? >Joe > > I just spent Friday, Sat and Sunday at a formation clinic using the > > T-34 formation flight manual for a wingman card to allow formation > > flight performace inside waivered airspace. The carrier brake from > > echelon requires a 2.5-4 G pull from a 60 degree bank at 150. While > > this may >seem > > docile to some, remember the load factor on the flying surfaces > > increase >at > > bank increases. > > > > Just food for thougt. The formation clinic instructors were pilots from TeamRV and Falcon Flight who perform formation flights at Sun & Fun and Oshkosh. Stu Macgurdy is one of the few pilots in the nation who can issue a wingman card to a non warbird pilot to fly formation in waivered airspace. The training and check ride is extensive. We used the T-34 manual for standard 4 ship formation rules flying...............hit me here...........RV's. With that said, I've flown a T-34 and can't imagine it won't hold a 4G, 60 degree bank at 150 for 4-5 seconds in a carrier break. Remember, a 60 degree bank, without pull, automatically generates 2Gs wing loading. The point of the statement was pilot induced G-loading. With that said, my Biannual yesterday in a 172 was like riding a tricycle:-) Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 08:33:36 -0700 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040407082048.00b25438@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed 60 degree level turn requires 2G input. Anything greater will cause a climb. As the G load goes up, the stall speed increases. The 2 G loading is not automatic with 60 degree bank. It requires increased backpressure. At 06:12 AM 4/7/2004 -0400, you wrote: >> I flew the T-34 through departure stalls, which when held were >>violent. I found it difficult to fly through 60 degrees at 150. Anyone >>else familiar care to comment? Joe >>While this may seem >> > docile to some, remember the load factor on the flying surfaces >> > increase >>at bank increases. Not automatically. Up, down, left, right, the pilot determines what the plane will do. >>The formation clinic instructors were pilots from TeamRV and Falcon >>Flight who perform formation flights at Sun & Fun and Oshkosh. Stu >>Macgurdy is one of the few pilots in the nation who can issue a wingman >>card to a non warbird pilot to fly formation in waivered airspace. The >>training and check ride is extensive. We used the T-34 manual for >>standard 4 ship formation rules flying...............hit me >>here...........RV's. With that said, I've flown a T-34 and can't imagine >>it won't hold a 4G, 60 degree bank at 150 for 4-5 seconds in a carrier break. It will, if you add power. >>Remember, a 60 degree bank, without pull, automatically generates 2Gs >>wing loading. No, it doesn't. Without pulling back on the stick, the nose will drop and the V V will go negative rapidly. I took my private ticket ride in a T-34. I also, have time in the T-33, T-37, and T-38 while getting my Air Force wings. They are all planes. From a J2 Cub to a B747, increasing bank requires pulling back on the stick to maintain level flight. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2004 13:41:35 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR>elevator mass balancing!! To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed OK, geez Larry let's split hairs.........................a "level" 60 degree bank places 2Gs of wing loading which increases stall speed. Does that satisfy you? What the heck did this have with the discussion. GEEZ........and that's being nice!! Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host. Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page – FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 15 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================