From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 161 Date: 10/11/2004 8:59:24 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Aileron Travel? (Dan Heath) 2. Re: Wax em (Dan Heath) 3. Re: control surfaces stops (Dan Heath) 4. Engine baffles (Brian Kraut) 5. RE: KR2S for sale (Brian Kraut) 6. Re: Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! (Mike Turner) 7. RE: Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! (Brian Kraut) 8. HURRY! b-4 auction ends KR2S (Dave Jeltema) 9. Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! (Oscar Zuniga) 10. Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! (The Weber's) 11. Re: Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! (Mark Jones) 12. Re: Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! (Matthew Elder) 13. Re: KR Plans (Kandacer44@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:53:00 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Aileron Travel? To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <416B2AEC.000007.01776@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Actually, my plans show the center of the hole .650 below the bottom of the aileron spar, as if the distance from the hinge did not matter. I measured mine to the top of the aileron spar, which should be about where the top of the hinge will be, and it is about 2 7/8". Can anyone confirm any or none of this is correct? There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. -------Original Message------- Subject: Re: KR> Aileron Travel? Hi Dan, Before you flox in your aileron spar,make sure the distance between the hinge center line and the control horn bolt hole center line are 2.5"max. My drawings omitted this dimension and I was unable to get the full range of movement due to this error- .I expect subsequent drawings have been amended to cover this. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:01:47 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Wax em To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <416B2CFB.00000B.01776@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark, I had not seen this post. Glad you posted it, as I will be doing that very thing this week end. Wax is a great idea. There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:02:48 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> control surfaces stops To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <416B2D38.00000D.01776@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, Amen, Keep on building and don't sweat the small stuff. There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering I am with you on that one Dan. My seat also acts as an aileron stop plus elevator stop. Mark Jones (N886MJ) ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:04:36 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: KR> Engine baffles To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was just making some patterns for engine baffels for an O-200 and I was going to have them CNC punched. I was wondering how many other people would buy pre-punched and bent sheet metal engine baffels and if they would be willing to pay $150-$200 for them. They would have all the rivet holes punched already like an RV kit and should go together in a few hours with either solid rivets or pop rivets. I would do them for the O-200, VW, and the Corvair. Let me know at brian.kraut@engalt.com if you would be willing to buy them, what kind of engine, what time frame you would need them, and if you would be interrested in them punched, but not bent for less money. I am just trying to get an idea now if it would be worth the engineering time to do this and if I could make enough money to be worth it. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:15:18 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> KR2S for sale To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" O.K. guys, this looks like a great deal. Fair warning - buy it before I do. I only have two garages with a plane in each and I really don't have room for a third until the Stang goes to the airport next month. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dave Jeltema Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:14 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> KR2S for sale I have a kr2 for sale on e-bay if anyone is interested Item number: 2493627202 This will be sold to the highest bidder no matter what! HOWEVER EVERYONE ON THIS SITE GETS FIRST DIBS! if you want it, I will close the auction and sell it to you feel free to e-mail me at partslocaters@msn.com Thank You Dave Jeltema _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:26:41 -0500 From: "Mike Turner" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark I think the nylon screws are still a good idea. I don't think you would have had a problem if you had diped the nylon threads in wax first then they probely would have come out a lot eaiser. Mike Turner ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Jones To: KR Net ; jscott.pilot@juno.com Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 7:36 PM Subject: KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! Excellent comments on the self lock crimp on the nut plate. I just finished removing the nylon screws starting with the very smallest bit I had and working my way up to the crimp size. I then used a tap to start the threads till I felt the tap grab the nut plate then I backed off. I then carefully inserted a screw in each nut plate and threaded it in till it started to grab. Everything seems ok now, thank God !!! Learn from others mistakes and save you a lot of grief. I hope someone else will benefit from my mistakes. You can bet I will not try the nylon bolt thing again. Now on to making the counterbalance arm. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! > > Bummer. When I heard about doing it that way I kind of wondered if the nylon screws wouldn't get hung up, but I long ago concluded that experience doesn't mean anything over ideas on the net. You should be able to run through a drill a bit smaller than the crimp on the self locking threads in the nut plate. The only thing left should be some nylon residue that you can be rid of by simply running a screw through the nut plate. > > FWIW, when I did mine I waxed up some regular screws and ran them through the nut plates when I floxed them in place. They threaded out reasonably easily leaving the nut plates ready to use. > > As you probably already know, running a tap all the way through will ruin the self locking capability of the nut plates. If you can't get a screw started after drilling the nylon screws, start a tap into the nut plate, but just run it in deep enough that you can back it out and run a regular screw through the threads. > > Good luck. > > -Jeff > > -- "Mark Jones" > wrote: > Yesterday, I floxed in place the Aileron mounting spar into the right wing. I was very concerned about the nut plates on the back of the spar filling with flox and being clogged. So, I remembered someone stating they had put nylon screws in the nutplates to prevent this and theirs easily removed after the flox dried. Well....mine did not come out and now my screw holes are plugged with nylon bolts. Guess I will have to carefully drill them out and tap the nut plates to get the threads clean.........anyone know of a better way to get them out??????????????? Man, it is always something. I gotta get bird in the air before I go crazy. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:31:13 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The biggest problem with the nylon screws is that on self locking nuts they get way to tight to keep from breaking the screws. I think they also get to tight even for steel screws and sometimes unflatten them a little in my vise. I used short steel screws with enough washers behind them so they only went in a few threads and didn't hit the locking part of the nutplates. I put all the nutplates on first then I used a stick to glob on some fairly thick flox just around the tabs and made sure it didn't drip onto the threaded part. Not one of them stuck. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Mike Turner Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 9:27 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! Mark I think the nylon screws are still a good idea. I don't think you would have had a problem if you had diped the nylon threads in wax first then they probely would have come out a lot eaiser. Mike Turner ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Jones To: KR Net ; jscott.pilot@juno.com Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 7:36 PM Subject: KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! Excellent comments on the self lock crimp on the nut plate. I just finished removing the nylon screws starting with the very smallest bit I had and working my way up to the crimp size. I then used a tap to start the threads till I felt the tap grab the nut plate then I backed off. I then carefully inserted a screw in each nut plate and threaded it in till it started to grab. Everything seems ok now, thank God !!! Learn from others mistakes and save you a lot of grief. I hope someone else will benefit from my mistakes. You can bet I will not try the nylon bolt thing again. Now on to making the counterbalance arm. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! > > Bummer. When I heard about doing it that way I kind of wondered if the nylon screws wouldn't get hung up, but I long ago concluded that experience doesn't mean anything over ideas on the net. You should be able to run through a drill a bit smaller than the crimp on the self locking threads in the nut plate. The only thing left should be some nylon residue that you can be rid of by simply running a screw through the nut plate. > > FWIW, when I did mine I waxed up some regular screws and ran them through the nut plates when I floxed them in place. They threaded out reasonably easily leaving the nut plates ready to use. > > As you probably already know, running a tap all the way through will ruin the self locking capability of the nut plates. If you can't get a screw started after drilling the nylon screws, start a tap into the nut plate, but just run it in deep enough that you can back it out and run a regular screw through the threads. > > Good luck. > > -Jeff > > -- "Mark Jones" > wrote: > Yesterday, I floxed in place the Aileron mounting spar into the right wing. I was very concerned about the nut plates on the back of the spar filling with flox and being clogged. So, I remembered someone stating they had put nylon screws in the nutplates to prevent this and theirs easily removed after the flox dried. Well....mine did not come out and now my screw holes are plugged with nylon bolts. Guess I will have to carefully drill them out and tap the nut plates to get the threads clean.........anyone know of a better way to get them out??????????????? Man, it is always something. I gotta get bird in the air before I go crazy. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:35:37 -0400 From: "Dave Jeltema" Subject: KR> HURRY! b-4 auction ends KR2S To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Thank You Dave Jeltema _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 20:43:23 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I am thinking of filling them with wax....comments anyone???? Mark, that is exactly the way it's done on the Flying Squirrel (aka, "KR Construction Trainer"). You can either light a candle and let it melt/drip into a screw hole if that's convenient, or else just scrape some up and stuff it into the hole and tamp it in firmly with the end of a matchstick. Whatever the case, it comes right out later with a slightly undersized drill bit or what-have-you. If you'll be glassing over the nutplate area and need a locator to help "find" the covered-up nutplate, stick a matchstick or toothpick in the hole after the wax is in and leave a nub sticking out as you glass over. You can drill out the stick and the wax after the glass hardens. Be real careful with wax though... just put it in the nutplate holes and don't get carried away. Epoxy and flox will not stick to it, nor will many other adhesives or fillers. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:00:06 -0500 From: "The Weber's" Subject: Re: KR> Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002a01c4afff$32f42980$81cab4d8@hppav> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I screwed the nutplates to the spar. then I put the screws in to keep the holes opened. I put a little dab of grease on the end of each screw before I floxed the spar in. The screws came out easy. Joe Weber ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 5:40 PM Subject: KR> Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! > Yesterday, I floxed in place the Aileron mounting spar into the right wing. I was very concerned about the nut plates on the back of the spar filling with flox and being clogged. So, I remembered someone stating they had put nylon screws in the nutplates to prevent this and theirs easily removed after the flox dried. Well....mine did not come out and now my screw holes are plugged with nylon bolts. Guess I will have to carefully drill them out and tap the nut plates to get the threads clean.........anyone know of a better way to get them out??????????????? Man, it is always something. I gotta get bird in the air before I go crazy. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:29:22 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <009e01c4b003$4cee69a0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I actually do not use flox on the nut plate either. It happened when I floxed the spar into the wing. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 7:56 PM Subject: Re: KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! > I don't use flox for the nut plates, I rivet them on, so this problem > does not exist for me. Funny, I found that Jerry had done the same on > these ailerons, when I took them apart. > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building > has expired. > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > > -------Original Message------- > > So what method for keeping the epoxy out of the nut plates would you > > use next time? > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:32:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Elder Subject: Re: KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! To: KRnet Message-ID: <20041012023247.74176.qmail@web13922.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've used a steel bolt in the nut, and used vasaline on the bolt (before you put it in of course). They won't stick at all... Matt http://kr1.infinigral.com Mike Turner wrote: Mark I think the nylon screws are still a good idea. I don't think you would have had a problem if you had diped the nylon threads in wax first then they probely would have come out a lot eaiser. Mike Turner ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Jones To: KR Net ; jscott.pilot@juno.com Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 7:36 PM Subject: KR> Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! Excellent comments on the self lock crimp on the nut plate. I just finished removing the nylon screws starting with the very smallest bit I had and working my way up to the crimp size. I then used a tap to start the threads till I felt the tap grab the nut plate then I backed off. I then carefully inserted a screw in each nut plate and threaded it in till it started to grab. Everything seems ok now, thank God !!! Learn from others mistakes and save you a lot of grief. I hope someone else will benefit from my mistakes. You can bet I will not try the nylon bolt thing again. Now on to making the counterbalance arm. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Screwed, blued and tattoed !!! > > Bummer. When I heard about doing it that way I kind of wondered if the nylon screws wouldn't get hung up, but I long ago concluded that experience doesn't mean anything over ideas on the net. You should be able to run through a drill a bit smaller than the crimp on the self locking threads in the nut plate. The only thing left should be some nylon residue that you can be rid of by simply running a screw through the nut plate. > > FWIW, when I did mine I waxed up some regular screws and ran them > through the nut plates when I floxed them in place. They threaded out reasonably easily leaving the nut plates ready to use. > > As you probably already know, running a tap all the way through will > ruin the self locking capability of the nut plates. If you can't get a screw started after drilling the nylon screws, start a tap into the nut plate, but just run it in deep enough that you can back it out and run a regular screw through the threads. > > Good luck. > > -Jeff > > -- "Mark Jones" > wrote: > Yesterday, I floxed in place the Aileron mounting spar into the right wing. I was very concerned about the nut plates on the back of the spar filling with flox and being clogged. So, I remembered someone stating they had put nylon screws in the nutplates to prevent this and theirs easily removed after the flox dried. Well....mine did not come out and now my screw holes are plugged with nylon bolts. Guess I will have to carefully drill them out and tap the nut plates to get the threads clean.........anyone know of a better way to get them out??????????????? Man, it is always something. I gotta get bird in the air before I go crazy. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. > Now includes pop-up blocker! > Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! > _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------------------------- Matthew Elder Orangeburg, SC http://www.infinigral.com/melder ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:39:28 EDT From: Kandacer44@aol.com Subject: KR> Re: KR Plans To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <196.30bd7210.2e9c9de0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I'm looking for a set of KR-1 or 2 plans. I would like to get the original ones (KR2) before the advent of the plans with all of the premolded parts. Can anyone out there help me. I used to have a set, but I think they were thrown out. Thank you, Kandace (new list member) ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 161 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================