From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 16 Date: 7/6/2004 8:59:54 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: The 'killer turn' (Barry Kruyssen) 2. CL eqns available ?? Stall speeds (larry flesner) 3. Re: the "killer turn" (Mike Turner) 4. RE: Harleys and auto engines/BMW (Wolfgang Decker) 5. RE: Harleys and auto engines/BMW (gleone) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 08:40:33 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" Subject: Re: KR> The 'killer turn' To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: <00bc01c463aa$4395afd0$2700a8c0@T1W419b> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" All glider pilots have to do spin training (in Australia anyway) because thermalling is done in tight, slow turns, perfect spin conditions. I would suggest that getting spin training in a glider is more economical (it is here, glider $30/hr plus launch fees), every landing is a forced landing and when doing cross country flights you learn to read the air currents and the ground features that produce lift and sink. I would do at least 1 spin in 90% of all flights in a glider and only 10% of those would be on purpose. Let me put that in to better context, the best lift in a thermal is near it's centre, to get best climb out of a glider thats where I want to be. Therefore angle of bank arround 45 degrees, speed down to stall, fly with top rudder to side slip the aircraft marginally into the centre of the turn (this makes the fuslage create lift), now hit a little air pocket which changes you AoA and spinning you are. It is happens so often now that I barely loose 50ft and less than 1/4 turn in the spin. In some of the aircraft I catch the spin way before it happens as they mush before stalling. regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://users.tpg.com.au/barryk/KR2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Freiberger To: KRnet Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 7:08 AM Subject: RE: KR> The 'killer turn' Maybe an A of A indicator that has a warning device that is a big fist that comes out of the panel and smacks us between the eyes to get our attention is the answer. :-) Larry Flesner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` Perfect answer Larry; where can I get one? Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger at swfla.rr.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:30:29 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> CL eqns available ?? Stall speeds To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040706183029.008e9db0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >It wasn't readable so this time I pasted into notepad to convert it to >plain text and then still had to add formatting. It should be in >straight ascii now. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Wes, I'm still having trouble making sense of the numbers. My KR at approx 1075 pounds appears to have a best glide speed, from test flown, of about 75 mph indicated. If I read my notes correctly it was 12 degrees C and pressure of 29.99 inches. Does that sound about right. I figured a decent rate of 535 fpm. Not bad for an airplane with a 20 foot wingspan. 70 mph indicated was very close with 566 fpm or a 3 second difference in 500 feet of altitude. I'm not sure my flying was that percise and either of these figures would have a + or - error. My best rate of climb appears to be between 80 and 90 mph but it was hard to duplicate the numbers from one test to the next so I'm not sure how accurate they are. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 18:55:35 -0500 From: "Mike Turner" Subject: Re: KR> the "killer turn" To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: larry flesner To: KRnet Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: KR> the "killer turn" Larry I think it is important to point out that extreme care must be taken when trying to roll wings level when that low wing is very near a stall as the down deflected aleron will increase drag and A0A and make it quite possible to stall that low wing. I can only stress getting the stick forward first then bring the wings level slowely. Mike Turner # 2 (the best if terrain is not a concern) is to forget trying to save the turn and the approach. Roll to wings level so that all lift generated can be used to check the rate of decent. With all lift generate at 90 degrees to the ground we don't need such a high A of A to generate enough lift to check our decent at the slower airspeed. Fly out of the situation and do a better job on the approach next time. Keep the A of A below the stall angle and you won't find youself eating dirt. Larry Flesner _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:28:44 -0400 From: "Wolfgang Decker" Subject: RE: KR> Harleys and auto engines/BMW To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Go one step further and put the R1100 in. It produces up to 90 HP, and is actually used in Microlights in Europe. If I can find the link I will post it in one of the next messages. My only concern with the use of a 2 cylinder engine is the cooling however. After all, the excess heat needs to be dissipated through a much smaller surface area compared to the likes of a VW or a Corvair. Any thoughts on that? Wolfgang -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+wdecker=cox.net@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+wdecker=cox.net@mylist.net]On Behalf Of gleone Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:22 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: @WL KR> Harleys and auto engines The BMW motorcycle engine is being used for light aircraft. Actually, BMW was making aircraft engines before they began building motorcycles. The BMW logo represents a spinning propeller. Anyway, here are a couple of links worth looking at: http://www.ultralightnews.com/engineinfo/bmwconversion.htm http://www.homebuiltaircraft.com/classified/AdDetail aspx?itemid=153&directory=+160 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:15:04 -0600 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" Subject: RE: KR> Harleys and auto engines/BMW To: Message-ID: <40EB6AB8.000001.02780@YOUR-FD6NVJCER4> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I used to think the same thing about the BMW engine until I bought a BMW R-75. I could put my bare hand on the cylinder in the heat of summer and it was cool to the touch. Cooling is not much of a problem with the BMW. (Note: BMW motorcycles are the ONLY BMW I would ever own! Sorry if I offended any BMW owners out there.) Gene Leone, Worland, Wyoming When you give a lesson in meanness to a critter or a person, don't be surprised if they learn their lesson. -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 07/06/04 19:30:22 To: KRnet Subject: @SPAM++++ RE: KR> Harleys and auto engines/BMW Go one step further and put the R1100 in. It produces up to 90 HP, and is actually used in Microlights in Europe. If I can find the link I will post it in one of the next messages. My only concern with the use of a 2 cylinder engine is the cooling however. After all, the excess heat needs to be dissipated through a much smaller surface area compared to the likes of a VW or a Corvair. Any thoughts on that? Wolfgang -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+wdecker=cox.net@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+wdecker=cox.net@mylist.net]On Behalf Of gleone Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 12:22 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: @WL KR> Harleys and auto engines The BMW motorcycle engine is being used for light aircraft. Actually, BMW was making aircraft engines before they began building motorcycles. The BMW logo represents a spinning propeller. Anyway, here are a couple of links worth looking at: http://www.ultralightnews.com/engineinfo/bmwconversion.htm http://www.homebuiltaircraft.com/classified/AdDetail aspx?itemid=153&directory=+160 _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 16 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================