From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 239 Date: 12/13/2004 8:59:13 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: elevator counterbalance (larry flesner) 2. Re: Weight and Balance (Barry Kruyssen) 3. Weight and Balance (larry flesner) 4. W&B (Dan Heath) 5. RE: Prop Bank (Mark Jones) 6. Re: re: Lift - BS debunked (David Brandon Sr) 7. (no subject) (Shawn and Laura) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:45:09 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> elevator counterbalance To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041213164509.007fd3f0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'm planning to start work on my elevator soon (this will be the first >part of my project because it doesn't take up much room and I can scrap >it later if I don't like it.). I'm going to cover it in Carbon Fiber >rather than glass, and I also want to add counter balances. SNIP Has >anyone done this? If anyone has added counterbalances of some kind, >please let me know. Thanks alot guys. John Lindner +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Go to : http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/misc.html and check out Mark Langford's setup. The biggest advantage of going the way he did is that it keeps the balance weight further forward in the airplane. Depending on the setup, this weight could be equal to the weight of the elevator and amount to several pounds. A small weight all the way back at the tail can have a huge effect on the W&B. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:56:17 +1000 From: "Barry Kruyssen" Subject: Re: KR> Weight and Balance To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01b701c4e166$f6653c40$d000a8c0@technologyonecorp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Jim, Before getting certified scales I've done a weights and balances using 3 bath room scales. Step 1: Calibrate the scales by getting a known weight and recording what the scales read with known weights. I used 4 plastic drums each with 20kg in them to record the weights for 20, 40, 60 and 80 kg for each scale. Step 2: Get the plan level in the flying attitude and weigh the aircraft (I weighed it empty and with me in it so a got a semi accurate pilots arm length) Step 3: Repeat step 2 twice more switching the scales around to confirm/average your readings. Setp 4: Using the readings for each wheel, correct values using the calibrations, average them out and use the average values to calculate your C of G. Using the above method I got 0.2kg variance between scales when weighed on each wheel. SPECIAL NOTE: I made timber blocks with chocks to sit on the scales to ensure the load was central and always in the same place. I haven't yet confirmed my C of G with certified scales, I hope to do this soon. Regards Barry Kruyssen Cairns, Australia RAA 19-3873 kr2@BigPond.com http://users.tpg.com.au/barryk/KR2.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: JIM VANCE To: krnet Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 9:04 PM Subject: KR> Weight and Balance I have a standard conventional geared KR-2 powered by a 1915 cc GP VW with a rear drive. I have the battery mounted on the firewall at this time. I'm ready to weigh it, and would like to have it close to the right c of g before I rent the scales. Right now, when I bring the tail up to flight attitude, I have almost no weight on the tail. Is this an indication that it is nose heavy? Should I move the battery to behind the seats before I bother with weighing? I would appreciate input from those who have gone before. Thanks. Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:30:15 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Weight and Balance To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041213173015.00805470@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I'm ready to weigh it, and would like to have it close to the right c > of g before I rent the scales. Right now, when I bring the tail up to flight attitude, I have almost no weight on the tail. Is this an indication that it is nose heavy? Should I move the battery to behind the seats before I bother with weighing? > I would appreciate input from those who have gone before. Jim Vance +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Jim, Actually, you're probably pretty close. If you get known good weights with the certified scales and you're off a bit on the CG, you can calculate with paper and pencil the changes you need to make. Just take accurate measurements on the location and weight of anything you think about moving and then redo the W&B with the new numbers and see how the changes affected the C.G. For example, if you want to move the battery, remove it's weight from the empty weight of the airplane as well as it's W x D (arm) numbers from the W&B numbers. That will give you the C.G. without the battery. Now add it back in at it's new location, adding the weight back to the empty weight as well as it's arm (W x D) back in to W&B numbers. This will give you the new C.G. location. If this is clear as mud, set down with someone that can help you. This is not something you want to guess at. After the structure of the airplane, this is probably issue #2 in importance to safe flight. One suggestion. When it's on the scales, place a known weight in the baggage area and calculate the actual arm of the baggage area. Same with pilot and passanger location. When I place anything (on paper) in my baggage area it shifts the C.G. back really fast. I'm not sure I'm using the correct arm (inches) for my numbers. A couple of ten pound sacks of sugar or flour would be one cheap way to go. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:53:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> W&B To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41BE2B74.00000D.02792@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" For those of you doing W&B, there is a spread sheet that was donated by a well known builder, on KR-Builder.org, that you can download for your use. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:24:43 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> RE: Prop Bank To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <015701c4e173$54a67420$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A couple of days ago while I was away in Georgia, someone asked where to donate to the Prop Bank. Donations can be sent to the following: Mark Jones 615 Wexford Circle Wales, WI 53183 or if you use PayPal, my PayPal account is the same as my e-mail address: flykr2s@wi.rr.com For those who do not know what the prop bank is all about, please read the following: We have started a Prop Bank in which I am inventorying different size props for all types of engines being used in the KR aircraft. What we are asking is that you donate to the Prop Bank in order for us to purchase props. Right now we have only two props in inventory. If you make a donation to the Prop Bank, that gives you the right to borrow a prop from the Prop Bank with a small security deposit. Why should you join the Prop Bank and borrow a prop? This will give you the opportunity to test a prop on your airplane to determine if it is right for you. If you like the prop, it may be purchased from the Prop Bank. If you do not like the prop, you may return it and try another prop. Whether you buy a prop you test or not, it will at least give you some test results which you can use to help determine which prop is best for you before you do buy one. If you have a prop you wish to donate to the Prop Bank, I will gladly inventory it for you. Or, if you are willing to allow others to borrow your prop, please let me know so that I may list your prop. There are also two props on the loaner list right now. This could really be a good program if we are able to get enough donations to buy a wide variety of props. We will also be keeping stats on all prop performances, on the different KRs they are used on, for your benefit. If you are remotely interested in the Prop Bank, please help out with a donation. Thanks to those of you who have supported this project so far. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 22:47:28 -0500 From: "David Brandon Sr" Subject: Re: KR> re: Lift - BS debunked To: Message-ID: <001601c4e18f$a208dfc0$6401a8c0@DBRANDON> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Finally someone who appreciates fine cinema! Dave Message: 23 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:46:43 +1100 From: Bavo Subject: Re: KR> re: Lift - BS debunked To: KRnet Message-ID: <830558f904121314464c30cc0e@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Is that the African or European Swallow? On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:44:02 -0500, David Brandon Sr wrote: > all right smarty pants! > What is the minimum airspeed velocity neccessary to keep an unladen > swallow airborne? > > (hee,hee, icouldnt help myself) :.) > Dave ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:18:15 -0500 From: Shawn and Laura Subject: KR> (no subject) To: KRnet Message-ID: <41BE6987.9010000@sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed What is the minimum airspeed velocity neccessary to keep an unladen swallow airborne? African Swallow? ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 239 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================