From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 253 Date: 12/25/2004 8:59:05 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Purchase (joe) 2. Re: rear spars (RENOSADLER@aol.com) 3. Re: rear spars - But wouldn't this effect the washout with a lot of movement in them? (Dan Heath) 4. Re: Trim Tube/Cable (Parley Byington) 5. Fw: KR> Trim Tube/Cable (Parley Byington) 6. Re: nut staplers (Mike Turner) 7. Re: Trim Tube/Cable (larry flesner) 8. RE: nut staplers (Brian Kraut) 9. Re: Trim Tube/Cable (larry severson) 10. rear outer spar caps (BABYWOLF@aol.com) 11. Re: rear outer spar caps (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:18:17 -0800 From: "joe" Subject: KR> Purchase To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001001c4ea5a$4a3d3ce0$0a0110ac@o7p4e3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I plan to build an account starting with 2500 dollars and to notify Krnet of every $500 addition so that i may purchase, as near as possible to completion, a project or aircraft. My Email address is: fegbdf@earthlink.net Please make all replies to my email address so as not to disturb KR netters with uneccessary comments. Thank you, Joe C. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 12:42:07 -0500 From: RENOSADLER@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> rear spars To: krnet@mylist.net (KRnet) Message-ID: <52137D0F.1DB99684.0B9B9FA7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 A couple of days before Christmas there a few messages posted about the the suport of the rear spars with the concese being don't lose any sleep over it. But wouldn't this effect the washout with a lot of movement in them? Check archives couldn't find anything on this... ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 12:51:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> rear spars - But wouldn't this effect the washout with a lot of movement in them? To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41CDA889.000003.02112@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" When it is all glassed together, there will be no movement other than normal flexing that is needed. You will not be able to see any bending or flexing. Unless you did not build it to plans, you have nothing to be concerned about See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:24:34 -0800 From: "Parley Byington" Subject: Re: KR> Trim Tube/Cable To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001801c4eab7$606eb7c0$495ae404@Parley> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dec. 25, 2004 First and most important, Merry Christmas to everyone on the Krnet. I used a spring attachment to the elevator cables and a crank from a camping trailer window to apply pressure to either the up or down cable. I also used this same type of setup for the rudder and it works just fine. One can attach one end of one of the springs to a stationary point with the other end attached to the down cable. The other spring is attached to the trim crank (control) and the other end to the up cable. Adjust the tension on the springs to have neutral pressure when level and the crank in the mid position. Many aircraft use this type of setup i.e.. the tri-pacer. Disclaimer: as with all information on the net, the builder /user uses this information solely at their own risk and responsibility. Experimental aircraft is just that, you experiment with what you think and know will work for your own enjoyment and sense of accomplishment. taking in consideration safety for yourself and others. I also designed and built my own fuel gage that uses no internal moving parts with the exception of the needle movement on the gauge itself. This gauge costs under $20.00 to build and is accurate within 1/2 of a gallon in all attitudes of my KR. I didn't like the sight gauge because my tank is non-linear and was unnerving to see it moving all over the place whenever I was maneuvering. My gauge uses a capacitive type sensor that I built into the baffles inside the tank to sense the fuel level, the same way the fighters and commercial type aircraft use. Hope this information is of use to some of you out there. Keep up the good work and have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Thanks Parley Byington Henderson, Nv. parley@anv.net N54PB KR-2 flying since 1991 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 11:30:07 -0800 From: "Parley Byington" Subject: Fw: KR> Trim Tube/Cable To: Message-ID: <002c01c4eab8$265679a0$495ae404@Parley> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Parley Byington" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: Re: KR> Trim Tube/Cable > Dec. 25, 2004 > > First and most important, Merry Christmas to everyone on the Krnet. > > I used a spring attachment to the elevator cables and a crank from a camping > trailer window to apply pressure to either the up or down cable. I also > used this same type of setup for the rudder and it works just fine. One > can attach one end of one of the springs to a stationary point with > the other end attached to the down cable. The other spring is > attached to the trim crank (control) and the other end to the up > cable. Adjust the tension > on the springs to have neutral pressure when level and the crank in > the mid > position. Many aircraft use this type of setup i.e.. the tri-pacer. > > Disclaimer: as with all information on the net, the builder /user > uses this > information solely at their own risk and responsibility. Experimental > aircraft is just that, you experiment with what you think and know > will work > for your own enjoyment and sense of accomplishment. taking in consideration > safety for yourself and others. > > I also designed and built my own fuel gage that uses no internal > moving parts with the exception of the needle movement on the gauge > itself. This gauge costs under $20.00 to build and is accurate within > 1/2 of a gallon in > all attitudes of my KR. I didn't like the sight gauge because my tank > is non-linear and was unnerving to see it moving all over the place > whenever I > was maneuvering. My gauge uses a capacitive type sensor that I built > into the baffles inside the tank to sense the fuel level, the same way > the fighters and commercial type aircraft use. > > Hope this information is of use to some of you out there. Keep up the good > work and have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. > > Thanks > Parley Byington > Henderson, Nv. > parley@anv.net > N54PB KR-2 flying since 1991 > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 14:01:29 -0600 From: "Mike Turner" Subject: Re: KR>nut staplers To: "KRnet" , "KR Net" , "Corvaircraft" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This is for you guys that are worried about those nut staplers. You just have to know what "women want" They like for you to buy them stuff and think about them all the time. Which is exactly what I do. When I started building a kr I let her know how much I was thinking about her by naming the kr after her "The Miss Carolyn". Every chance I get I buy stuff for her. Instead of wasting money on stupid stuff like flowers for her birthday I got her control cables and some an bolts. For valentines day I got her a matching set of alum fuel fillers rings with settings of plastic fuel filler caps Along with this wonderful gift I got her another matching set of fuel senders with gages. Mothers day came landing gear and brakes. For Christmas I got her a new table saw. Sometimes I get her stuff out of the blue just to surprise her and show her just how much I love her. I made her an instrument panel out plywood and let her pick out a color to stain it. After she stained it and put on about 8 coats of clear finish it looked beautiful. When the kr is done I'll let her pick what ever color she wants to paint it. She's so happy I'm getting all this stuff for her she is almost speechless. She did however ask me to get her some real sharp kitchen knives and a pair of scissors for the new year -----my guess is that she wants them for trimming off excess epoxy. Mike Turner Jackson Missouri ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Jones To: KR Net ; Corvaircraft Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 8:03 AM Subject: KR> Merry Christmas I e-mailed my wife at work and simply told her the three words women love to hear. She responded with an e-mail that had the same three words in it. I replied back to her stating that I sure was glad she loved me because then she would not be so mad when the 18 wheeler pulled up in the drive and unloaded the new airplane kit I had bought. I thought this would be an easy way of telling her. She replied, "If it does, you will picking staples out of your nuts for a year." I cancelled the order. Some women just don't get it. Mark Jones (N886MJ) _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 15:49:59 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> Trim Tube/Cable To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041225154959.007ffe40@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I used a spring attachment to the elevator cables and a crank from a >camping trailer window to apply pressure to either the up or down >cable. Many aircraft use this type of setup i.e.. the tri-pacer. > >Disclaimer: as with all information on the net, the builder /user uses >this information solely at their own risk and responsibility. Parley >Byington ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Parley, Your system obviously works well on your KR and this reply is not an attempt to discredit it. I would like, however, to set the record straight on the Tripacer trim system. Having owned one for 6 1/2 years and flown it for 500+ hours, I know of what I speak. The Tripacer, like most of the early Piper designs, uses a movable horizontal stabilizer for trim. It pivots on the rear H.S. spar and uses a jackscrew assembly on the front mount to move the lead edge up and down, changing the pitch of the H.S. for trim. The benifit of such a system is that whatever speed and C.G. location you have the aircraft trimmed for, you still have full elevator deflection available. The early C-182 (1956 + 1957 ? ) used the same setup and,in my estimation, Cessna took a step backwards in the design when they went with a fixed H.S. and an elevator trim tab on later models. They just aren't the same airplanes in the landing mode. The Tripacer does have spring interconnects between the ailerons and rudder to make for nearly co-ordinated flight when using either control independantly. It was Pipers attempt in the early 50's to make an airplane handle more like the family Buick station wagon. Personally, I could take it or leave. It has no real downside, even when cross-controllng on landings. As for electric trim, I have the Ray Allen servo mounted in my elevator and it works quite well. A cable (mechanical) system would be faster acting, depending on the setup, and might actually be effective if one lost the elevator control as in a cable disconnect or broken bellcrank, etc. At cruise speed, say 150 mph, my electric system is too slow and behind the airplane to maintain pitch control. I know, I've tried it several times. Getting behind the airplane, I go into increasingly stronger dive and climb modes until I scare the s*&t out of myself and take control of the KR with the stick again. I hope I never have to try it for real. It might work at a lower landing speed but I'd still bet I'd have more than a few minor repairs to make. I know I'd need a new seat. The permenant pucker wrinkles would not be repairable. :-) I'll even go out on a limb here after 114.7 hours on my KR. I'd say that maintaining control system integrity is the single most critical factor on the KR, at least the elevator and ailerons. I don't think it would be a controllable airplane if you lose either of these. It's not a Cessna where you can keep the wings level with rudder, etc. Different KR's with different wing washouts, control surface areas, fuselage lengths, will all handle differently so one statement does not apply to all. Personally, I'll take losing an engine , 10 to 1, over losing either elevator or ailerons. You hardly need rudder if the wheels are not in contact with the ground. All that said, I LOVE MY KR !!!!! It's an AWSOME flying airplane. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:10:10 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR>nut staplers To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Or trimming off what she can't staple. --She did however ask me to get her some real sharp kitchen knives and a pair of scissors for the new year -----my guess is that she wants them for trimming off excess epoxy. Mike Turner Jackson Missouri Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 14:26:27 -0800 From: larry severson Subject: Re: KR> Trim Tube/Cable To: KRnet Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20041225142442.00c48ff0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >I also designed and built my own fuel gage that uses no internal moving >parts with the exception of the needle movement on the gauge itself. >This gauge costs under $20.00 to build and is accurate within 1/2 of a >gallon in all attitudes of my KR. I didn't like the sight gauge >because my tank is non-linear and was unnerving to see it moving all >over the place whenever I was maneuvering. My gauge uses a capacitive >type sensor that I built into the baffles inside the tank to sense the >fuel level, the same way the fighters and commercial type aircraft use. I bought a capacitive sensor from Kragan auto for $19.95 that worked well. Of course that did not include the readable gage. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 19:17:47 EST From: BABYWOLF@aol.com Subject: KR> rear outer spar caps To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bulding a kr2s and have rear outer wing cap stock from kr2 kit --plans call for caps to be 78.5 inches and my stock is 78.25 I can splice .25 on each of the cap pieces or I can glue a .25 piece over the end of the 2 caps before I glue the webs Comments and criticisms appreciated. Garry Cowles Santa Fe NM ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:07:51 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> rear outer spar caps To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008101c4eaf8$23fb5780$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Garry Cowles wrote: > Bulding a kr2s and have rear outer wing cap stock from kr2 it --plans > call for caps to be 78.5 inches and my stock is 78.25 I can splice .25 on > each of the cap pieces or I can glue a .25 piece over the end of the > 2 caps > before I glue the webs Comments and criticisms appreciated. You have several options, but the easiest is to just go ahead and use what you have. The KR2S plans call for adding foam/glass spar tips anyway, so now you have to add another quarter inch. It's not a biggie. The wingtips will bury the error and nobody will ever know it happened. Now if you were building an aluminum plane you might have a problem, but you don't. Glueing blocks to the ends is probably not the answer though, as they will have very little strength, not that you need much at the tips. Don't sweat it... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 253 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================