From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 260 Date: 12/30/2004 8:59:05 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. scarf joints. (haroldwoods) 2. RE: Pitot Static (Brian Kraut) 3. Fw: R?f. : Re: R?f. : KR> Pitot Static (Parley Byington) 4. RE: control surface loss. (Brian Kraut) 5. RE: Experimental (Brian Kraut) 6. RE: pitot static (Brian Kraut) 7. vinylester resin (Brian Kraut) 8. Re: vinylester resin (jscott.pilot@juno.com) 9. Re: Experimental (Randy Smith ) 10. Re: Experimental (Randy Smith ) 11. N-Number Reservation (Mike Turner) 12. Re: Pitot Static (Randy Smith ) 13. N-Numbers (Mike Turner) 14. RE: Experimental (Brian Kraut) 15. Pitot Static (larry flesner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:21:47 -0500 From: "haroldwoods" Subject: KR> scarf joints. To: Message-ID: <000c01c4eed7$18c2b790$0201a8c0@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Re Ken Crawford question on scarfing 1/8" European birch plywood. The 4'x4' multilayered aircraft birch is very strong (but heavy). do a 18 to 1 scarf on it with epoxy, (don't squeeze it to hard when clamping . The scarf will be stronger than any other part of the sheet.Make the scarf 2" wide. Harold Woods Orillia,ON. Can. haroldwoods@rogers.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:16:10 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Pitot Static To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" You can bend 1/4" tube pretty easy without a bender. Get some of the 3003 Versatube. You can buy a foot or two real cheap from either Spruce or Wicks. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Glasseyegav Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:20 AM To: KR builders and pilots Subject: KR> Pitot Static Hi all, Has anybody made their Pitot and static tubes from 3/8" tube?? I have plenty of 3/8" tube and a bender to suit. If it were to use 1/4" I'd have to source it and a bender as well!! I was planning on making a nice tip to press fit in the 3/8" tube, to reduce the inlet size and make it look a little nicer. Would this give the same results as the 1/4" tube installation?? Would the static work the same in 3/8" tube as it does with 1/4" tube?? Gavin ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:21:03 -0800 From: "Parley Byington" Subject: Fw: R?f. : Re: R?f. : KR> Pitot Static To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002b01c4eedf$6324f2a0$b991e304@Parley> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thursday, Dec. 30, 2005 Dear netters I installed my pitot tube on the top of the vertical stab. I found that it has a 5mph error but otherwise works just fine and no worries of someone breaking it off as they walk by or forgetting to install it (screw in types). The first one I had was installed out the bottom as per plans, I found that it had a 20 mph error due to turbulence around the retracts. Hope this helps. Happy New Year and many happy flying hours to all. Parley Byington Henderson NV N54PB parley@anv.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Serge VIDAL" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:59 AM Subject: Réf. : Re: Réf. : KR> Pitot Static > Nothing fancy, really. My idea is simply to use threaded inserts for > aluminum arrow tips. I will thread the pitot and static tubes > accordingly, or maybe simply glue the tip at the end of the tube, if > practical. The tip for the static will stay as is, and become a plug. > And I will drill a hole through the tip for the pitot. > > This is only meant to make these tube ends look nicer. > > Serge > > > > > > Steven Phillabaum > > Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem.com@mylist.net > 2004-12-30 14:39 > Veuillez répondre à KRnet > Remis le : 2004-12-30 14:40 > > > Pour : KRnet > cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) > Objet : Re: Réf. : KR> Pitot Static > > > > Hello, Serge and other netters; > > I custom make hickory bows and arrows. But, I don't quite understand > what you are talking about for the tip. "field points" are aerodynamic > but lack the hole in the middle. I also have a stock of arrow shaft > and treaded inserts for aluminum arrows. Those are hollow. Bill Clapp > has a removable Pitot tube which he takes off so no one will > accidentally break it off. I like his idea and I think you might be on > to something with the arrow points. I would like to find out more of > what you are thinking. > > Steven Phillabaum > Auburn, Alabama > > Now that the family holidays are over I will get back to work. > > > > From: "Serge VIDAL" > Now, as far as tips are concerned, my plan is to try and > > find a pair of arrows tips from an archery shop. Durable, > > weatherproof, aerodynamic... > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:26:39 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> control surface loss. To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In gliders we do a positive control check before the first flight every day. You have someone put pressure against each control surface and you move all the controls through their full range against the resistance. It is done on gliders because the control srfaces are removable for transport and you need to be sure all the linkages are correctly secured. I highly recommend doing this on a new homebuilt with as much pressure as you would ever reasonably expect to exert on the stick. If something is going to break you want it to break on the ground. A lot of people just check for free movement with no pressure on the control surfaces and that won't tell you if you have a weak link or a pulley bracket about to break off or something. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of haroldwoods Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:10 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> control surface loss. I had a complete control loss at 5000 feet while testing a Jodel D11. There was a very bad weld on the control stick. I was doing a power stall and applied strong back stick pressure at a high angle of attack.. It is unpleasant to go for a roller coaster ride with the stick in one hand and an unbelieving eye looking at the broken end. I found that a very high speed, the Bowden operated trim tab would not move. Thus my KR2M is going to have a strong electric trim tab, not only on the elevator but the rudder and aileron as well. The control stick and associated parts are stronger than normal. I do not object to the extra weight involved.I hope to get it in the air in 2005. Harold Woods Orillia,ON. Can. haroldwoods@rogers.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:37:07 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Experimental To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was going to register my Midget Mustang as an NX so I could get rid of the experimental and passenger warning sticker until I realized that you don't need to do it anyway on on single place. Duh. I also found out that if you want a short number with ones in it they are hard to come by. There was nothing left with the number one and only one other digit and my initials. I was looking for something short so I could fit 12" numbers on a very short fusalage. If you want something special go ahead and spend the five bucks a year to reserve the N number now. Just the reservation won't tip off the tax man that I know of. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:50 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Experimental >I think the KR2 is 30+ years old before 2007. I'm guessing it is >30+ as of this past year or even 2003. Holy smokes! A search of my Sport Aviation CD-ROM archive shows the KR-1 as having made its debut at Oshkosh in 1972, making it at least 33 years old!!! But hey, get this... guess what debuted that same year at Oshkosh? Richard VanGrunsven's RV-3! Yes, that's right... the RV-3 is AN ANTIQUE! Let's just see how many people (a) believe that, and (b) register their RV-3s as "NX...". But check it out for yourself in the Sport Aviation archives (just search for "Ken Rand" or "KR-1") The NX thing is legal. It's the FAA's job to know their own regulations and to adhere to them. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:40:11 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> pitot static To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I had an under wing pitot and static exactly like shown in the plans and it worked beautifully. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Don Chisholm Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:01 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> pitot static I did a real beauty pitot tube out of my leading edge out near the tip where it would be in unimpeded air. I wasn't even close to taking it to the airport when an apologetic individual knocked it off on a walk by. I suppose you could make a screw out one too much of a chance not to install it when you want to go flying.I did the one out of Bengalis's book under the wing with the static port. works for me Don Chisholm _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:45:50 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: KR> vinylester resin To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have some vinylester resin that I bought two or three months ago and have not opened yet. I know that promoted ve has a short shelf life, but what exactly happens to it when it expires? How can I tell if it is still good? I am probably only going to use it to make a mold so I don't care about strenght, but I don't want to lay it up and have it never cure if that is what happens. When I shake the can it sloshes around like it is still thin so it has not turned to jello or anything yet. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:52:55 -0700 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> vinylester resin To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20041230.195256.1336.2.jscott.pilot@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Brian, If it's still liquid, it's still good. As it get's old, it first turns to goo, then to stone. Jeff On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:45:50 -0500 "Brian Kraut" writes: > I have some vinylester resin that I bought two or three months ago > and have > not opened yet. I know that promoted ve has a short shelf life, but > what > exactly happens to it when it expires? How can I tell if it is > still good? > I am probably only going to use it to make a mold so I don't care > about > strenght, but I don't want to lay it up and have it never cure if > that is > what happens. When I shake the can it sloshes around like it is > still thin > so it has not turned to jello or anything yet. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:56:05 -0600 From: "Randy Smith " Subject: Re: KR> Experimental To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005201c4eee4$45615f60$9af97444@home> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Your problem will be that your plane is not just like the one built 30 yrs ago. The Dallas inspector here said you would not get it passed in this district unless the plane was identical and you could prove it. We all know that there is not one alike. I have a C on my Bellanca NC74372 because it is over 50 yrs old. We do a lot of traveling and I have had (the friendly) FAA inspectors give me a hard time over it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 4:37 PM Subject: Re: KR> Experimental > > >>>Someone put out on the Teenie forum that if your N number was NX >>>something, >>>then you did not have to put the EXPERIMENTAL inside the cockpit. >>>Does anyone know if this is true? >> >>I posted information here on this topic in Feb, 2002, where I >>mentioned >>that >>in 2007 the KR design would be 30 years old and builders would be eligible >>to apply the "NX" registration prefix in lieu of a passenger warning >>placard. > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > Oscar, > > I think the KR2 is 30+ years old before 2007. I'm guessing it is > 30+ as of this past year or even 2003. > > I went through this whole issue when deciding on an N number for my > KR. I picked 211LF and intended to have N X 211LF on the KR with the > X 211 maybe in a different color to stand out from the N and LF. The > "Spirit of St.Louis" , one of my all time favorite airplanes, was > X-211. 211 was already taken > by the EAA for use on the replica "Spirit". Anyway, the problem > you ,or anyone, will run in to is trying to convince the inspector(s) > that the whole X thing is legal and get them to sign it off. That was > what I ran in to and finally said forget it. I stuck N 211LF on the > side, got it inspected, and went flying. > > Larry Flesner > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:02:14 -0600 From: "Randy Smith " Subject: Re: KR> Experimental To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005f01c4eee5$21a10a20$9af97444@home> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original You can't use the large N# on a KR there is no place long enough to put them. I wanted to fly mine to the Bahamas a few years ago and we had to have the large N# and could not make them fit, so we did not go. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: Re: KR> Experimental > Are you building a KR1 or a KR2 or a KR2S? Is it worth the trouble > just to have small letters and not put in EXPERIMENTAL sign. The sign > also helps mitigate liability. > > > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > building > has expired. > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:02:58 -0600 From: "Mike Turner" Subject: KR> N-Number Reservation To: "krnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://162.58.35.241/e.gov/NN/resreqform.asp ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:04:38 -0600 From: "Randy Smith " Subject: Re: KR> Pitot Static To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006801c4eee5$77840a00$9af97444@home> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original They sell the same tube at an airconditioning supply house ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" To: "KRnet" Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 8:16 PM Subject: RE: KR> Pitot Static > You can bend 1/4" tube pretty easy without a bender. Get some of the > 3003 Versatube. You can buy a foot or two real cheap from either > Spruce or Wicks. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of Glasseyegav > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 6:20 AM > To: KR builders and pilots > Subject: KR> Pitot Static > > > Hi all, > Has anybody made their Pitot and static tubes from 3/8" tube?? I have > plenty of 3/8" tube and a bender to suit. If it were to use 1/4" I'd > have to source it and a bender as well!! I was planning on making a > nice tip to press fit in the 3/8" tube, to reduce > the inlet size and make it look a little nicer. > Would this give the same results as the 1/4" tube installation?? > Would the static work the same in 3/8" tube as it does with 1/4" tube?? > > Gavin > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:10:25 -0600 From: "Mike Turner" Subject: KR> N-Numbers To: "krnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry, I tried to sent the link but it didn't work. Try Civil Aircraft Registry Spin the prop, light the fire, dance among the stars............N428CM ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:29:54 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Experimental To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There was something in the regs about only needing 12" numbers if they will fit, but looking in FAR 45.29 it says after 3/7/98 you need 12" numbers to penetrate an ADIZ. I know I saw something contrary to that recently, but can't find it now. This reg has specs for the width of characters in relation to their heights, spacing, and thickness of the lines also. Good reading before you paint something on. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Randy Smith Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 10:02 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> Experimental You can't use the large N# on a KR there is no place long enough to put them. I wanted to fly mine to the Bahamas a few years ago and we had to have the large N# and could not make them fit, so we did not go. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: Re: KR> Experimental > Are you building a KR1 or a KR2 or a KR2S? Is it worth the trouble > just to have small letters and not put in EXPERIMENTAL sign. The sign > also helps mitigate liability. > > > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > building has expired. > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:47:05 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Pitot Static To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20041230214705.00813c50@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The first one I had was installed out the bottom as per plans, I >found that it had a 20 mph error due to turbulence around the retracts. > >Parley Byington >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I built / installed the pitot/static setup per plans and mounted it just outboard of the center section and it works to within 1 to 3 mph at cruise based on a number of checks with the GPS. It seem to be accurate at the low end also as the KR lifts off just above 50mph indicated. I have a bit of extra length on the hoses and when installing the outer wing panel I run the hoses into the outer wing and out the mounting hole. With wing attached I stuff the hose as far as they will go into the 1/4" pitot/static tubes, stick the extra hose back into the wing and attach the pitot/static tubes. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 260 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================