From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 34 Date: 4/18/2004 4:14:46 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: KR Dynel (Stephen Jacobs) 2. RE: Stick angles/incidence angle/trim tab (Stephen Jacobs) 3. RE: RE: KR Dynel (Doug Rupert) 4. RE: Stick angles/incidence angle/trim tab (Doug Rupert) 5. Re: thermostats for heat chamber control. (Joseph H Horton) 6. /incidence angle/trim tab (larry flesner) 7. thermostats for heat chamber control. (larry flesner) 8. Re: thermostats for heat chamber control. (Dan Heath) 9. RE: RE: KR Dynel (Kevin Angus) 10. RE: RE: KR Dynel (Stephen Jacobs) 11. KR1 (Cellcool) 12. RE: RE: KR Dynel (Kevin Angus) 13. Re: KR1 (Dan Heath) 14. RE: RE: KR Dynel (Dan Heath) 15. RE: KR Dynel (Donald Reid) 16. Search Archives for Dynel (Dan Heath) 17. Fiberglas Cloth (JIM VANCE) 18. SNF Pics (Dean Cooper) 19. Re: SNF Pics - spring driven? (Steve and Lori McGee) 20. Re: > Pitot (intrepid1ac@juno.com) 21. Re: SNF Pics - spring driven? (Dean Cooper) 22. Re: SNF Pics (Ray Fuenzalida) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:18:20 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: KR> RE: KR Dynel To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c4251d$b9bb0fa0$4364a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My curiosity is probably a bit outdated. The original KR designs called for a material called Dynel. From what I have read, this was more of a draper's synthetic fabric like rayon etc. - not intended to be a structural medium. It is however reported to be very effective (strong / tough?) when used as a composite fabric. The following ectract from an article by jck Cox (At Oshkosh) on the KR1. -- "Dynel" is a synthetic fiber made by Union Carbide. It is used on the KR-1 in much the same way as fiberglass cloth is used to make cowlings, etc. on other planes. Dynel has the advantage of being four times as strong as glass, but only half as heavy. The cloth is very soft and can be stretched to fit almost any shape. 4 ounce per square yard This outer shell is incredibly light and strong. This writer personally observed Ken Rand walking up and down the wing of the KR-1, and at the risk of a repair bill and/or a fat lip, I took the thin trailing edge of the elevator between two fingers and tried hard to deform it in any direction If it was cost effective and did the job, there must be reasons why it is no longer used - does anyone know what those reasons are. After a brief encounter with Kevlar, I hope to never use this uncooperative material ever again - even if it is 6 times as strong, half the weight and free. What is working best for a KR2S? Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:09:59 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Stick angles/incidence angle/trim tab To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000601c42524$f0b57250$4364a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> At 155 indicated my KR, standard wing built to plans, appears to fly >> with the nose down at a -2 degrees. >>> I did a quick check yesterday and found that my trim tab is "down" >>> (for nose up trim) at 155mph >>> My C.G. on that flight was probably about midpoint of the range >>> I tried to set my H.S. to zero degrees with the fuselage level and >>> that required a small shim under the forward spar Great stuff here, thanks Larry. I assume your KR is rigged with the standard +3.5 positive wing incidence at the root. We know the HS is zero (with a 24" longer moment) and you still need some of "up" trim in the cruise with a relatively neutral CG - I am really surprised and pleased to know this before I finalize anything. Assuming also that you used the typical 2 to 2.5 degrees washout that appears to be normal amongst builders - it looks like the relationship between the wing root and HS of +3.5 is about right (if not a little shy) - say 4 degrees decaulage should be pretty close. (For an RAF48) I would have expected this to be less - 2 to 2.5 degrees (with -2 washout). Maybe there is an influence from the other dimension - thrust line. I would imagine that your thrust line is pretty close to zero and thus effectively 2 degrees down thrust in the cruise. This may tell us why your bird is looking for a bit extra "up" in the cruise - to compensate for the engine pulling down. Interesting test would be to get the bird trimmed out in the cruise - let her settle down (everything balanced), then remove the thrust component by throttling back for a few seconds - my guess is that she will nose-up briefly before settling into a slower than expected glide. Your KR flies 2 degrees nose-down, so maybe the root should be at +1.5 for the best drag profile of the fuselage - and the stab <4 degrees. I wonder how this will change with: a) The newer Ashok wing sections b) A more deliberate airfoil section on the HS - 007) I think an airplane looks really cool in a nose down attitude - like the older Bonanza's - so mine will be rigged 1 degree up from whatever finally comes out here. Take care and enjoy. Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:49:27 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> RE: KR Dynel To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000e01c4253b$36603770$6704e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Steve: my only real experience with Kevlar is that it makes wonderful bulletproof vests but since I don't plan on entering combat zones with the KR, I think I'll leave it's usage to the military. Besides from what I've read the stuff is a bitch to work with. I believe your money would be better spent on glass cloth as carbon fiber prevents one from using buried antennae and these are a major drag factor to the finished product. I have 2 Nomex flight suits that I value highly and believe they would be of better use to a pilot than Kevlar. Doug Rupert. Simcoe Ontario -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jacobs Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 4:18 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: KR> RE: KR Dynel My curiosity is probably a bit outdated. The original KR designs called for a material called Dynel. From what I have read, this was more of a draper's synthetic fabric like rayon etc. - not intended to be a structural medium. It is however reported to be very effective (strong / tough?) when used as a composite fabric. The following ectract from an article by jck Cox (At Oshkosh) on the KR1. -- "Dynel" is a synthetic fiber made by Union Carbide. It is used on the KR-1 in much the same way as fiberglass cloth is used to make cowlings, etc. on other planes. Dynel has the advantage of being four times as strong as glass, but only half as heavy. The cloth is very soft and can be stretched to fit almost any shape. 4 ounce per square yard This outer shell is incredibly light and strong. This writer personally observed Ken Rand walking up and down the wing of the KR-1, and at the risk of a repair bill and/or a fat lip, I took the thin trailing edge of the elevator between two fingers and tried hard to deform it in any direction If it was cost effective and did the job, there must be reasons why it is no longer used - does anyone know what those reasons are. After a brief encounter with Kevlar, I hope to never use this uncooperative material ever again - even if it is 6 times as strong, half the weight and free. What is working best for a KR2S? Steve J _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:49:27 -0400 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> Stick angles/incidence angle/trim tab To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000f01c4253b$3861acc0$6704e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Steve plug the info you just quote into Aiplane PDQ and the program will do all the calculations, show boundary layer, separation points, drag figures as well as a the Reynolds numbers involved and can show what if any changes will occur prior to actual modification. It will also show what changes will occur as airfoils are changed and allow you to choose the most optimum foil for your intended use. The thing I enjoy most about the program however is the fact that it will show angles of attack where to expect stall and how violent they will tend to be as well as give the builder a realistic cruise and Vne for the engine installed. Any and all variable are dealt with and fully editable. From there it is simply a matter of feeding the information into X-Plane and you are able to get a feel for how the finished product will behave on completion. It is possible to rack up many hours of simulator time for your particular bird and therefore better prepare you for the flight testing stage. I have found that over my career that my personal dislike for surprises has kept me alive in more than one hairy situation that one would not otherwise think of. Doug Rupert Simcoe Ontario. -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+drupert=sympatico.ca@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+drupert=sympatico.ca@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jacobs Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 5:10 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> Stick angles/incidence angle/trim tab >> At 155 indicated my KR, standard wing built to plans, appears to fly >> with the nose down at a -2 degrees. >>> I did a quick check yesterday and found that my trim tab is "down" >>> (for nose up trim) at 155mph >>> My C.G. on that flight was probably about midpoint of the range >>> I tried to set my H.S. to zero degrees with the fuselage level and >>> that required a small shim under the forward spar Great stuff here, thanks Larry. I assume your KR is rigged with the standard +3.5 positive wing incidence at the root. We know the HS is zero (with a 24" longer moment) and you still need some of "up" trim in the cruise with a relatively neutral CG - I am really surprised and pleased to know this before I finalize anything. Assuming also that you used the typical 2 to 2.5 degrees washout that appears to be normal amongst builders - it looks like the relationship between the wing root and HS of +3.5 is about right (if not a little shy) - say 4 degrees decaulage should be pretty close. (For an RAF48) I would have expected this to be less - 2 to 2.5 degrees (with -2 washout). Maybe there is an influence from the other dimension - thrust line. I would imagine that your thrust line is pretty close to zero and thus effectively 2 degrees down thrust in the cruise. This may tell us why your bird is looking for a bit extra "up" in the cruise - to compensate for the engine pulling down. Interesting test would be to get the bird trimmed out in the cruise - let her settle down (everything balanced), then remove the thrust component by throttling back for a few seconds - my guess is that she will nose-up briefly before settling into a slower than expected glide. Your KR flies 2 degrees nose-down, so maybe the root should be at +1.5 for the best drag profile of the fuselage - and the stab <4 degrees. I wonder how this will change with: a) The newer Ashok wing sections b) A more deliberate airfoil section on the HS - 007) I think an airplane looks really cool in a nose down attitude - like the older Bonanza's - so mine will be rigged 1 degree up from whatever finally comes out here. Take care and enjoy. Steve J _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:52:43 -0400 From: Joseph H Horton Subject: Re: KR> thermostats for heat chamber control. To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20040418.075243.-352761.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain You should be able to get exactly the thermostat that you are looking for at any place that sells propane forced air torpedo heaters. We have been using these for years to control temp heat in new construction. They are simply a thermostat with a 110 power cord with a male/female plug end. Plug the thermostat into the wall outlet and plug your device into the back of the thermostat plug. The last ones I bought were around $12. I had one on 100 watt bulb inside a box to keep the epoxy at 80 deg. for several years. No need to reinvent this one guys. Joe Horton Coopersburg, Pa. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:20:56 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> /incidence angle/trim tab To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040418072056.008d8100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I assume your KR is rigged with the standard +3.5 positive wing >incidence at the root. We know the HS is zero (with a 24" longer >moment) and you still need some of "up" trim in the cruise with a >relatively neutral CG - I am really surprised and pleased to know this >before I finalize anything. Steve J ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Wing 3.5 root, .5 at the tip, standard length - 8" total (4" tip instead of the plans recommended 8" tip) H.S. 0 degrees or as close as I could build it. Engine ? Don't know. I didn't build the engine mount but I'm ASSUMING it is a 0 degrees. If it wouldn't mess up my cowl I'd try shimming it up a degree or so. With me and full fuel my CG falls approx at midpoint. My CG moves forward 1" from full to empty fuel, I was at approx 1/2 tanks. I'm hoping to change the left main tire this morning and get in some quality KR time. It's forcasted to be windy so maybe the Tripacer will get some sun today. :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 07:32:36 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> thermostats for heat chamber control. To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040418073236.008dd100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >You should be able to get exactly the thermostat that you are looking >for at any place that sells propane forced air torpedo heaters. We have >been using these for years to control temp heat in new construction. >They are simply a thermostat with a 110 power cord with a male/female >plug end. Plug the thermostat into the wall outlet and plug your device >into the back of the thermostat plug. The last ones I bought were >around $12. I had one on 100 watt bulb inside a box to keep the epoxy >at 80 deg. for several years. No need to reinvent this one guys. Joe >Horton ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Joe, How many years since you bought one? I seem to recall mine costing me approx $29. That's why I suggested the wall thermostat which is usually the exact same heat range (50 to 90F) and usually sells for less than $10 plus a switch box $2 to mount it in. The kind you suggested would be a whole lot easier to use. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:32:23 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> thermostats for heat chamber control. To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40828367.000005.03084@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am using the kind that Joe suggested, but it only has a temp range of 40 to 90. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:17:43 -0600 From: "Kevin Angus" Subject: RE: KR> RE: KR Dynel To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Wonder if this will work for my KR1-B wing? http://www.auromat.com/auromat_eng.htm 20% reduction in resin, replaces 4 fiberglass layers with one Auromat layer.. at least that is what they claim... Then : http://johnrsweet.com/Polyester.html -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Doug Rupert Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 5:49 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> RE: KR Dynel Steve: my only real experience with Kevlar is that it makes wonderful bulletproof vests but since I don't plan on entering combat zones with the KR, I think I'll leave it's usage to the military. Besides from what I've read the stuff is a bitch to work with. I believe your money would be better spent on glass cloth as carbon fiber prevents one from using buried antennae and these are a major drag factor to the finished product. I have 2 Nomex flight suits that I value highly and believe they would be of better use to a pilot than Kevlar. Doug Rupert. Simcoe Ontario -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jacobs Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 4:18 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: KR> RE: KR Dynel My curiosity is probably a bit outdated. The original KR designs called for a material called Dynel. From what I have read, this was more of a draper's synthetic fabric like rayon etc. - not intended to be a structural medium. It is however reported to be very effective (strong / tough?) when used as a composite fabric. The following ectract from an article by jck Cox (At Oshkosh) on the KR1. -- "Dynel" is a synthetic fiber made by Union Carbide. It is used on the KR-1 in much the same way as fiberglass cloth is used to make cowlings, etc. on other planes. Dynel has the advantage of being four times as strong as glass, but only half as heavy. The cloth is very soft and can be stretched to fit almost any shape. 4 ounce per square yard This outer shell is incredibly light and strong. This writer personally observed Ken Rand walking up and down the wing of the KR-1, and at the risk of a repair bill and/or a fat lip, I took the thin trailing edge of the elevator between two fingers and tried hard to deform it in any direction If it was cost effective and did the job, there must be reasons why it is no longer used - does anyone know what those reasons are. After a brief encounter with Kevlar, I hope to never use this uncooperative material ever again - even if it is 6 times as strong, half the weight and free. What is working best for a KR2S? Steve J _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:58:53 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> RE: KR Dynel To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000a01c42566$716ae7e0$8e64a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Roger that guys - I know that Kevlar is a pain in any GRP /FRP application - I said as much. My interest is in the Dynel - sounds like it should be a great product but somehow it is not popular - maybe out of production? Maybe difficult to work with? Does anyone know why? Thanks for the URL to the Auromat site - it is worth a visit - I see potential here and will try some experiments. Thanks Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:22:17 +0200 From: "Cellcool" Subject: KR> KR1 To: Message-ID: <007301c42569$dcf3de60$010a0ac4@john> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Guys, I have rescued a KR1 from a hanger ( where it has stood since 1983, the owner / builder purchased a 172 tinny and now has shares in a Mooney ) and need a set of plans to finish the wings. The plans that came with the plane are KR2 photocopies and leave a large amount to the builders ingenuity. It is my intention to purchase a full set from RR to double check everything that I can, but would like to know if it is worthwhile changing to the longer extended wings and what advantages there are, speed, useful load, etc. and also is it worth changing the wing profile to another type. The KR fuselage is finished and inspected and passed / signed off, but still needs all the tail control surfaces finished. I have attempted to get 7076 in South Africa but it seems no go and must be imported as the aircraft industry uses 6061. Anyone offer any comments there? I need to make the hinges for the control surfaces and was at Swellendam yesterday and while looking at a Rans S7 I saw all the hinges are made of about .9mm stainless plate bent into "U" shapes. I asked if this worked and the Rans has 1700 hours on with not a single snag. Can I go this route also? Regards John Little. ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 13:41:00 -0600 From: "Kevin Angus" Subject: RE: KR> RE: KR Dynel To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "Steve: my only real experience with Kevlar is that it makes wonderful bulletproof vests" NOT. "Bulletproof"; It slows the penetration of bullets but many types of bullets /calibers can penetrate a level IV vest The correct term would have been "Bullet Resistant" or "Ballistic Vests" just as most watches are "Water Resistant" and a few are "Water Proof" (to n number of feet) I have a vest that we shoot during my training courses to show the students that "Bulletproof" really is just a movie/marketing term. Movies are wonderful fantasies but real life can be a killer. I'm waiting on the vest made from spider silk, they gene spliced a spider and goat, the goat produces the silk protein in it's milk, spider silk is about three times stronger then Kevlar. http://www.forbes.com/global/2001/0219/061.html this was written in 2001. What would happen if Auromat was made with spider silk? -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Doug Rupert Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 5:49 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> RE: KR Dynel Steve: my only real experience with Kevlar is that it makes wonderful bulletproof vests but since I don't plan on entering combat zones with the KR, I think I'll leave it's usage to the military. Besides from what I've read the stuff is a bitch to work with. I believe your money would be better spent on glass cloth as carbon fiber prevents one from using buried antennae and these are a major drag factor to the finished product. I have 2 Nomex flight suits that I value highly and believe they would be of better use to a pilot than Kevlar. Doug Rupert. Simcoe Ontario -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jacobs Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 4:18 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: KR> RE: KR Dynel My curiosity is probably a bit outdated. The original KR designs called for a material called Dynel. From what I have read, this was more of a draper's synthetic fabric like rayon etc. - not intended to be a structural medium. It is however reported to be very effective (strong / tough?) when used as a composite fabric. The following ectract from an article by jck Cox (At Oshkosh) on the KR1. -- "Dynel" is a synthetic fiber made by Union Carbide. It is used on the KR-1 in much the same way as fiberglass cloth is used to make cowlings, etc. on other planes. Dynel has the advantage of being four times as strong as glass, but only half as heavy. The cloth is very soft and can be stretched to fit almost any shape. 4 ounce per square yard This outer shell is incredibly light and strong. This writer personally observed Ken Rand walking up and down the wing of the KR-1, and at the risk of a repair bill and/or a fat lip, I took the thin trailing edge of the elevator between two fingers and tried hard to deform it in any direction If it was cost effective and did the job, there must be reasons why it is no longer used - does anyone know what those reasons are. After a brief encounter with Kevlar, I hope to never use this uncooperative material ever again - even if it is 6 times as strong, half the weight and free. What is working best for a KR2S? Steve J _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:44:47 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> KR1 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4082DAAF.000003.02908@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Y0U Asked: if it is worthwhile changing to the longer extended wings Look at Richard Shirley's on KRNet.org. Build it like that and you will have more fun than anyone deserves to have on this planet. He used a different wing, but it is much shorter. Don't know what the airfoil designation is, but there are others on the net who do. YOU Asked: hinges are made of about .9mm stainless plate bent into "U" shapes I suppose that you can go any route that you like, but I would use extruded aluminum, full length hinges for the ailerons and the Dr. Dean hinges for the tail surface hinges. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:48:43 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: RE: KR> RE: KR Dynel To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4082DB9B.000005.02908@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. Now I know exactly what I will make the wing skins out of, the next time I build some. I think that the question was, what is the reason why Dynel is no longer in favour? It is most likely hard to get, but I heard that it is a bear to work with as it wants to move around a lot an that when it is cured that it bristles up like a porcupine when you sand it. This is only hearsay, because I have never seen the stuff and really don't care if I ever do. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 04/18/04 15:41:26 To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> RE: KR Dynel "Steve: my only real experience with Kevlar is that it makes wonderful bulletproof vests" NOT. "Bulletproof"; It slows the penetration of bullets but many types of bullets /calibers can penetrate a level IV vest The correct term would have been "Bullet Resistant" or "Ballistic Vests" just as most watches are "Water Resistant" and a few are "Water Proof" (to n number of feet) I have a vest that we shoot during my training courses to show the students that "Bulletproof" really is just a movie/marketing term. Movies are wonderful fantasies but real life can be a killer. I'm waiting on the vest made from spider silk, they gene spliced a spider and goat, the goat produces the silk protein in it's milk, spider silk is about three times stronger then Kevlar. http://www.forbes.com/global/2001/0219/061.html this was written in 2001. What would happen if Auromat was made with spider silk? -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Doug Rupert Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 5:49 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> RE: KR Dynel Steve: my only real experience with Kevlar is that it makes wonderful bulletproof vests but since I don't plan on entering combat zones with the KR, I think I'll leave it's usage to the military. Besides from what I've read the stuff is a bitch to work with. I believe your money would be better spent on glass cloth as carbon fiber prevents one from using buried antennae and these are a major drag factor to the finished product. I have 2 Nomex flight suits that I value highly and believe they would be of better use to a pilot than Kevlar. Doug Rupert. Simcoe Ontario -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jacobs Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2004 4:18 AM To: 'KRnet' Subject: KR> RE: KR Dynel My curiosity is probably a bit outdated. The original KR designs called for a material called Dynel. From what I have read, this was more of a draper's synthetic fabric like rayon etc. - not intended to be a structural medium. It is however reported to be very effective (strong / tough?) when used as a composite fabric. The following ectract from an article by jck Cox (At Oshkosh) on the KR1. -- "Dynel" is a synthetic fiber made by Union Carbide. It is used on the KR-1 in much the same way as fiberglass cloth is used to make cowlings, etc. on other planes. Dynel has the advantage of being four times as strong as glass, but only half as heavy. The cloth is very soft and can be stretched to fit almost any shape. 4 ounce per square yard This outer shell is incredibly light and strong. This writer personally observed Ken Rand walking up and down the wing of the KR-1, and at the risk of a repair bill and/or a fat lip, I took the thin trailing edge of the elevator between two fingers and tried hard to deform it in any direction If it was cost effective and did the job, there must be reasons why it is no longer used - does anyone know what those reasons are. After a brief encounter with Kevlar, I hope to never use this uncooperative material ever again - even if it is 6 times as strong, half the weight and free. What is working best for a KR2S? Steve J _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 15:53:58 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: KR> RE: KR Dynel To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040418155038.01d3a380@pop.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:58 PM 4/18/2004, you wrote: >My interest is in the Dynel - sounds like it should be a great product >but somehow it is not popular - maybe out of production? Maybe >difficult to work with? Does anyone know why? The word on Dynel in old issues of both the KR newsletters and Sport Aviation articles is that it soaks up resin like a sponge. The final layup will be significantly heavier than glass. In addition, the final surface is not as nice and needs more work to prep it for paint. Don Reid - donreid "at" erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://www.eaa231.org/AeroFoil/index.htm KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:00:03 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Search Archives for Dynel To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4082EC53.00000C.02908@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I searched the archive for Dynel and got 65 hits. http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp Try it, you'll like it. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:11:23 -0500 From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: KR> Fiberglas Cloth To: "krnet" Message-ID: <003101c42589$b4a3d6c0$0300a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Aircraft Spruce has a glass cloth designated #7533. Their description is "5.85 oz/sq. yd. Lightweight boat or tooling cloth. Plain weave. Thread Count 18 x 18. Breaking Strength 250 x 250 lb./in. Finished weight 5.64 oz.sq. yd. Thickness .009" as used on KR aircraft." It comes in a 60 inch width and is priced at US$ 5.75 per lineal yard. I used it on my KR-2 without any serious problems. If I could get it to work, anyone can work with it. Jim Vance Vance@ClaflinWildcats.com ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:23:53 -0400 From: "Dean Cooper" Subject: KR> SNF Pics To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <031701c4258b$736a88a0$0502a8c0@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Netters, We had 4 KR's show up at SNF this year. I took pics of the 3 that I saw (I heard there was a 4th, but, it left before I could see it) and posted them here: http://www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/2004_SunNFun1.html Steve Jones' tri-gear was being photographed for Sport Aviation. It would be great if we could get the visibility on our plane! As Brian mentioned earlier, Dinner Friday night was great. Thanks to Virg for hosting. This trip has gotten me motivated and looking forward to the gathering in Mt. Vernon. Mark L / Dana O - Brian and I looked for you at Margaritaville last night with no luck... Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:54:00 -0500 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" Subject: Re: KR> SNF Pics - spring driven? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000f01c4258f$ab617b20$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Explain to me please what you mean by spring driven trim? Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 17:42:51 -0400 From: intrepid1ac@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> > Pitot To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20040418.174256.-494587.0.intrepid1ac@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A certain line of Spam Cans uses a 1/4" aluminum tube running the full length of the wing, then attaches the pitot tube at the outer end of the wing with a short length of Tygon(tm) or similar hose. No propwash, landing gear, blanking in a slip, etc. concerns at all. Simply remove the plastic/f'glas wingtip to access the pitot tube installation, especially handy when the local mud- daubers have Homesteaded on the one day you forgot to put on the pitot cover. Art Cacella 1970 American AA-1 N6155L "Dinkie" 1972 KR-1 Plans, still not started ( but four metal homebuilts underway ) Winston-Salem, NC ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 19:08:09 -0400 From: "Dean Cooper" Subject: Re: KR> SNF Pics - spring driven? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <031f01c4259a$03f6be30$0502a8c0@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve wrote: > Explain to me please what you mean by spring driven trim? Steve, For the rudder, he has a spring attached from the rudder pedal to an adjustment knob. By tightning or loosening the knob you add or release pressure on the pedal and, therefore, the rudder. The aileron works the same way, except it is connected to the stick instead of the rudder pedal. Looks simple and easy to use. Robert actually used the adjustment knob from a guitar, which was interesting, Hope this helps... Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 16:13:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Ray Fuenzalida Subject: Re: KR> SNF Pics To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040418231318.38941.qmail@web42001.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Good photos. Makes me jealous and even sorrier that I couldn't make it this year. Ray --- Dean Cooper wrote: > Netters, > > We had 4 KR's show up at SNF this year. I took pics > of the 3 that I saw (I heard there was a 4th, but, > it left before I could see it) and posted them here: > > http://www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/2004_SunNFun1.html > > Steve Jones' tri-gear was being photographed for > Sport Aviation. It would be great if we could get > the visibility on our plane! As Brian mentioned > earlier, Dinner Friday night was great. Thanks to > Virg for hosting. This trip has gotten me motivated > and looking forward to the gathering in Mt. Vernon. > > > Mark L / Dana O - Brian and I looked for you at Margaritaville last > night with no luck... > > Dean Cooper > Jacksonville, FL > Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net > See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! 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