From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 37 Date: 4/20/2004 9:00:17 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. type 4 Failures (Orma Robbins) 2. Re: WAF angle (Mark Langford) 3. Re: type 4 Failures (Orma Robbins) 4. RE: type 4 Failures? What failures (Serge F. Vidal) 5. Re: type 4 Failures (Mac McConnell-Wood) 6. Fwd: KR> type 4 Failures (FIXERJONES@aol.com) 7. Re: type 4 Failures (orma@aviation-mechanics.com) 8. Wing Ribs (hhductworks@pacific.net) 9. Re: Wing Ribs (Boeing757mech1@aol.com) 10. Fw: Garry Morgan KR 2ss (Phillip Matheson) 11. Re: type 4 Failures (Mark Langford) 12. Re: Wing Ribs (Bob Stone) 13. Re: Wing Ribs (Ross Youngblood) 14. Type 4 failures (Orma Robbins) 15. Re: Type 4 failures (Eduardo Iglesias) 16. Starter Rotation (Pat Driscoll) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:33:35 -0400 From: "Orma Robbins" Subject: KR> type 4 Failures To: "KRnet" , Message-ID: <054c01c426cb$527f7d80$c724d445@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Steve and KR netters, After a few posts that I put on the net about the rebuild of my type 4, Mark L. suggested that I should talk to you and others about you crank failures. My experiences with the type 4 have been really good and others have been the opposite. Your experiences could help me prevent from some future failure. I would like to ask a few questions of you and anyone else that has had a failure of a type 4 Crankshaft. 1. What part of the crank failed. 2. What size was the crank 3. Was it a stock VW crank 4. Was it in any way modified, ie for the prop hub, and how was it modified 5. Was it damaged prior to failure, such as prop strike etc. 6. Any significant history from the engine in it prior usage, such as sudden stoppage from an auto accident or engine dropped #3 valve etc. I appreciate any and all comments. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 07:04:30 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> WAF angle To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <013e01c426cf$a58f3c50$5e0ca58c@tbe.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jerry Stowers wrote: > Is the angle for the aft W.A.F.'s different on the AS5048, I know I > read this somewhere but can't find it know. The angle for the aft WAFs would be whatever it takes to get the proper dihedral per the plans. Block it all up correctly and then clamp the WAFs in place, match drill, and install. Maybe you're talking about the angle the WAFs are bent at, which is the same as other KR2S as well. Other than the incidence angle of the entire wing with respect to the fuselage, the wing is set up identically to what the plans call out for the RAF48, although I reduced my washout a little... Mark Langford, Huntsville, AL N56ML at hiwaay.net see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:21:43 -0400 From: "Orma Robbins" Subject: Re: KR> type 4 Failures To: "Orma Robbins" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <055801c426d2$0b54a1e0$c724d445@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello again Netters. I just finished reading the Archives search for Crankshaft failures. I entered the dates present to 1990. There were 31 hits on the subject. There was a lot of discussion on failures, but not ONE posting by anyone with a failure that gave any details at all. This is significant. Some members make decisions based on the word of the net. I have flown my type 4 off and on now for over 19 years. My 66 mm crank looks as new. I am moving up to a stock 71 mm crank in what will be a completely different engine. If there are cranks failing I personally really want to know who and why. Tweedy and I are both getting older and would like to continue to do so without having experienced crank failure. So, this post is a call for any one with direct knowledge to sing out. Orma L. Robbins Southfield MI 19 Years flying KR-2 N110LR (Tweedy) http://www.aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:51:49 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" Subject: RE: KR> type 4 Failures? What failures To: "'Orma Robbins'" , "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c426d6$40106690$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My 2 cents worth, as an operator of and a strong believer in the Type 4. - All the literature (engine rebuild manuals, etc.) I could find on the subject states that the Type 4 is by far the best VW air cooled engine. Better than Type 1, 2, 3, and 4. No wonder: it is the most recent one, and it is the fruit of a redesign. - Therefore, it should be less failure-prone than the other VWs - Moreover, we tend to make our VW air cooled less reliable by increasing their power output one way or another. With the Type 4, you start with a block tha was designed for an output of 65hp; therefore, an increase up to, say, 80 to 100 hp is still fairly reasonable. Conclusion: - The VW is not the best engine in the world, but it is still a very affordable and fairly proven solution; - If you have to choose a VW engine, choose a Type 4; you'll be on the safe side; - Have the block and the crankshaft tested, and you'll stand even better on that safe side; - Have the engine rebuilt and modified by people who know what they are doing, and you'll really be entrenched on that safe side; In any case, your Type4 will be as safe (or even safer) as a rebuilt Lycoming or a Continental... Even more if you give it a decent ignition system, to replace those Cavemen's magnetos. Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC - Taildragger, VW powered (2.4 liter, dual electronic ignition) - Total aircraft time: 390h - Aircraft hangared at: Orleans, France - Pilot moaning in: Tunis, Tunisia E-mail: serge.vidal@ate-international.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Orma Robbins Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 13:22 To: Orma Robbins; KRnet Subject: Re: KR> type 4 Failures Hello again Netters. I just finished reading the Archives search for Crankshaft failures. I entered the dates present to 1990. There were 31 hits on the subject. There was a lot of discussion on failures, but not ONE posting by anyone with a failure that gave any details at all. This is significant. Some members make decisions based on the word of the net. I have flown my type 4 off and on now for over 19 years. My 66 mm crank looks as new. I am moving up to a stock 71 mm crank in what will be a completely different engine. If there are cranks failing I personally really want to know who and why. Tweedy and I are both getting older and would like to continue to do so without having experienced crank failure. So, this post is a call for any one with direct knowledge to sing out. Orma L. Robbins Southfield MI 19 Years flying KR-2 N110LR (Tweedy) http://www.aviation-mechanics.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:16:56 +0100 From: "Mac McConnell-Wood" Subject: Re: KR> type 4 Failures To: "Orma Robbins" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <009401c426e2$3b335220$1405e150@tinypc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Orma Robbins" To: "KRnet" ; Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: KR> type 4 Failures Hello Orma,- from over the pond ,the only crankshaft failure that I heard about was Dan's, and I believe his was a type 4. Revmaster told me recently they'd never had a 4340 chrome /moly?failure-so I bought one. Gullible or what! Regards, Mac UK > Hello Steve and KR netters, After a few posts that I put on the net > about the rebuild of my type 4, Mark L. suggested that I should talk to you and others about you crank failures. > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:27:25 EDT From: FIXERJONES@aol.com Subject: Fwd: KR> type 4 Failures To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <96.8d34afe.2db6a96d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" my viewpoints on the use of the type 4,,,,,for reliable service all aspects must be set up properly ,not guess work or it's close. my type 4 is a stock 71 mm crank, with a big bore kit, the bore size is not important,,the compression ratio is! i use 8 to 1 comp. to make the engine live a long life,, 8 to 1 comp. or less . also the timing set to 26 degrees or less! also a egt & cht on all 4 cyls. i run 1200 egt max& 375 cht max sensed on the plugs. another point is to balance the engine. the prop must be wood & balanced on the engine too. i run 100ll avgas only& the oil press @ 50psi @ 3000rpm which is max in flight. i cruise @ 2400 to 2600 rpm. this is my method of type 4 survival & durability, steve jones n212kr i almost forgot to thank greatplains for there quality parts,,without the force 1 hub setup, it wouldn't work as well,,, ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:04:50 -0400 From: Subject: Re: KR> type 4 Failures To: "Mac McConnell-Wood" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <003001c42701$fa517730$90554f44@robbinsavm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks for the feedback Orma ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:23:00 -0700 From: hhductworks@pacific.net Subject: KR> Wing Ribs To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <20040420181738.M76388@pacific.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 What adhesive do we use to glue the paper template to the birch ply prior to cutting out the wing ribs from the sheets of ply. Thank you for your help; Dan Harris ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:27:43 EDT From: Boeing757mech1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Wing Ribs To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <78.54e9f4cf.2db6c59f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 4/20/2004 11:24:03 AM US Mountain Standard Time, hhductworks@pacific.net writes: What adhesive do we use to glue the paper template to the birch ply prior to cutting out the wing ribs from the sheets of ply. I went to Wal-Mart and bought the cheapest spay on adhesive I could find. It was about 3 dollars. I sticks just enough so you can cut out your templates and then it peels away without a mess. Chris Theroux Gilbert, AZ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:18:37 +1000 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: KR> Fw: Garry Morgan KR 2ss To: "KR builders and pilots" Message-ID: <001701c42725$6dc867a0$df97dccb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi all . I have been asked my a number of you for info on Garry Morgan's KR2SS. He sent me the following info for anyone interested. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry & Kristine Morgan To: Phil Matheson Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:00 PM Subject: Fw: Garry Morgan KR 2ss Could you foward to the kr net as i could not get through thanks -------Original Message------- From: Garry & Kristine Morgan Date: 04/20/04 18:53:42 To: KRnet@mylist.net Subject: Garry Morgan KR 2ss Hi there, some answers to questions asked,about my kr2ss. Wing span 27 foot length 6" longer Tail 7" Wing spar increased and tail spar Wing fittings and bolt increased Extra blocking between ribs Extra glass from drag fitting forward at 45deg. Thinner at wing tip Less dieheadral Bigger wing tips Motor 2" forward Max take off now 544kg and stall 41kts Fuel 108 lts It fits the Australia ultra light experimental. I have taken 135kg passenger, and i am 95kg, on a 36deg temp day with a 2100 VW. calm air approach speed 51kts. With all the changers the new one has a 41" cabin to accommodate my larger friends and is 4" taller for the 2.2 jab motor. Its now called the JOEY 2 The JOEY 2 is now in kit form ,all moulded glass skins, boat is complete, metal fittings made, comes with seat belts, brakes,spars made U/C wheels etc. my e mail is gkmorgan@ihug.com.au Regards Garry Morgan ____________________________________________________ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:45:10 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> type 4 Failures To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01f301c42729$230f8aa0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Below is a message from the CorvAircraft archives ( http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/index.jsp ). Date: 29-Jan-04 6:14 AM From: SRMAKISH@aol.com Subject: CorvAircraft>VW Cranks Hi all. The subject of these cranks has been a sore spot with me since I broke a type 4 scat 78 mm in flight. at exactly 220 hours. I broke the next stocker too in about the same amount of time. Bob Lester (another vair Kr driver broke a revmaster crank at 200 hours or so. This seems to be the MAGIC number. Someone told me that this is why Hapi engines went under because they had to replace 80 thousand dollars worth of bad cranks on their engines. I don't know how true this is, but it must have some truth to it. I finally had Steve Bennett put in a force one hub and did not have a problem after that and it ran until I went with another conversion. Great Plains stuff seems to work well and Steve is a good friend of mine and a straight shooter.Regards, StevePS> Dan Diehl broke his type 4 crank on the way back from Oshkosh to Tulsa, same setup as mine and about the same hours._________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:01:59 -0500 From: "Bob Stone" Subject: Re: KR> Wing Ribs To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000401c42733$deacd2e0$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan, You can use just plain flower and water paste. The important thing is to go very slow and follow the line exactly Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:23 PM Subject: KR> Wing Ribs > What adhesive do we use to glue the paper template to the birch ply > prior to > cutting out the wing ribs from the sheets of ply. > > Thank you for your help; > > Dan Harris > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:48:53 -0700 From: Ross Youngblood Subject: Re: KR> Wing Ribs To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 Rubber cement works too. If you coat the paper template, and the plywood seperately, and let them dry, it works like contact paper. After each dries, put the two together... but is difficult if not impossible to move around once you have done it this way. On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:01:59 -0500, Bob Stone wrote: > Dan, > You can use just plain flower and water paste. The important > thing > is > to go very slow and follow the line exactly > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > rstone4@hot.rr.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:23 PM > Subject: KR> Wing Ribs > > >> What adhesive do we use to glue the paper template to the birch ply >> prior > to >> cutting out the wing ribs from the sheets of ply. >> >> Thank you for your help; >> >> Dan Harris >> >> _______________________________________ >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > ---- > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 22:00:21 -0400 From: "Orma Robbins" Subject: KR> Type 4 failures To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <059101c42744$682c4e50$c724d445@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The following arrived this evening from Steve Makish about his type 4 failures. Orma Hello, Steve here. My crank was a 78mm scat. It broke across the # 3 rod (I think, it was so long ago) The crank was brand new and no mods were done to it. It broke at about 220 hours. Dan Diehl broke one on his type 4 engine also right about the same amount of hours. I also cracked a stock 71mm, but I found that out on the ground and not in the air. I rebuilt the engine again with a stock crank but had Steve Bennett put in his force one hub. I flew it for about 25-50 hours before I sold it to a guy locally who was building a kr2s. Strange sidenote. Last week at sun and fun a beautiful kr tri gear pulled in from Venice fl. We got talking and he was a real nice fellow. Come to find out he bought the guys project, finished it and is flying with my old engine (110) hours so far. He was not happy with the performance and was looking into putting in a corvair. funny how things work out. Hope this answers your questions, Regards, Steve ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:08:41 -0300 From: "Eduardo Iglesias" Subject: Re: KR> Type 4 failures To: "Orma Robbins" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <00f601c42745$928a7270$c3bc3fc8@iglesias> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I think in armonic vibrations. What hapens if you put on it a PSRU? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Orma Robbins" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 11:00 PM Subject: KR> Type 4 failures > The following arrived this evening from Steve Makish about his type 4 failures. > > Orma > > Hello, Steve here. My crank was a 78mm scat. It broke across the # 3 > rod (I think, it was so long ago) The crank was brand new and no mods were done to it. It broke at about 220 hours. Dan Diehl broke one on his type 4 engine also right about the same amount of hours. I also cracked a stock 71mm, but I found that out on the ground and not in the air. I rebuilt the engine again with a stock crank but had Steve Bennett put in his force one hub. I flew it for about 25-50 hours before I sold it to a guy locally who was building a kr2s. Strange sidenote. Last week at sun and fun a beautiful kr tri gear pulled in from Venice fl. We got talking and he was a real nice fellow. Come to find out he bought the guys project, finished it and is flying with my old engine (110) hours so far. He was not happy with the performance and was looking into putting in a corvair. funny how things work out. Hope this answers your questions, > Regards, > Steve > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 21:40:58 -0500 From: "Pat Driscoll" Subject: KR> Starter Rotation To: "KR Mailing list" Message-ID: <003401c4274a$15c7df20$0d40d240@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I was thinking about my last post about turning the stator winding around to get the motor to turn the opposite direction. I hope no one busted wires loose trying it. I remembered that the motor I was working with had identical end bolt patterns with the gearcase on one end. I reversed the ends and the motor ran the opposite direction Pat Driscoll patrick36@usfamily.net Saint Paul, MN ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 37 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================