From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 44 Date: 4/26/2004 11:36:03 AM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. short field over obstructions (j stevens) 2. Re: short field over obstructions (Kenneth B. Jones) 3. Carbs for the 110hp Corvair? (safety's no accident) 4. Re: 40.2 hours :-) :-) (Martindale Family) 5. RE: delaminations! (Ross Evans) 6. Re: parts for sale (skphil@charter.net) 7. RE: delaminations! (larry flesner) 8. Where is "Art" (skphil@charter.net) 9. Re: parts for sale (Brian Kraut) 10. Re: Where is "Art" (Brian Kraut) 11. Re: parts for sale (Brian Kraut) 12. RE: KR 2 for sale (Nieto, Daniel A (Dany)) 13. RE: KR 2 for sale (mierz@wcoil.com) 14. KR 2 for sale (larry flesner) 15. Re: KR 2 for sale (larry flesner) 16. Re: Successful VW Conversion (Wayne Israelsen) 17. KR for sale bad link (Sharon and Darryl DuRossette) 18. RE: Are the "sermons' still around anywhere?? (John Bergen) 19. delaminations! (Larry A Capps) 20. Re: delaminations! (larry flesner) 21. Re: Successful VW Conversion (Wayne Israelsen) 22. Make your WAFs and wings inspectable!! (Serge F. Vidal) 23. delaminations! (Stephen Jacobs) 24. delaminations! (Larry A Capps) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:59:07 -0500 From: j stevens Subject: KR> short field over obstructions To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <408C890B.9080308@usfamily.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed latest experiences in landing: Went out Saturday for some pattern work, with the idea of getting the landing roll even shorter. After three full stop landings I wanted to make the last one a thing of beauty. I noticed on my previous finals I could slip her in with quite a rate of decent. So this time I flew a shortened pattern turned final was hot and still had about 900 feet to lose, (looked like I would never get it down in time.) in fact I have never seen the final from such an attitude!! Anyway I put in as much slip as I could and still stay on course and man did I come down, I must have been coming in on a 45 degree angle. and yet my air speed and altitude just before the numbers was perfect After taking off the slip and flaring I got a 3 pointer that was like stepping off a 6 inch ledge , I got right on the brakes as usual, to my amazement I had it stopped before the first turn off, in fact I had to add power to get to the turn off!! The runway is 2400 feet the 2nd turn off is half that , I think the first turn off is a little over half that. I never thought I would have to add power to finish a landing roll for a 6 to 7 hundred foot runway, not in this bird any way. Next time I go out I am going to get a better idea of how close that first turn off is. Regards Joel ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:11:28 -0400 From: "Kenneth B. Jones" Subject: Re: KR> short field over obstructions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <012901c42b44$8cccf7b0$8d7ba8c0@oemcomputer> Joel, What is your stall speed and what is your approach speeds (final, short final, touch down)? Is your plane a KR-2 and what is your empty weight? Ken Jones N5834 (taxiing) ----- Original Message ----- From: "j stevens" To: Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 11:59 PM Subject: KR> short field over obstructions > latest experiences in landing: > > > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:22:46 -0700 (PDT) From: safety's no accident Subject: KR> Carbs for the 110hp Corvair? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20040426042246.36666.qmail@web11206.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey fellow Netters. I would like your input on this subject. I am building the 110hp Corvair power plant for the KR2 and would like know what carburetors to use. Mark L, chime in on this, your knowledge and opinion are all ways welcome. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25¢ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:26:42 +1000 From: "Martindale Family" Subject: Re: KR> 40.2 hours :-) :-) To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004201c42b68$5155ff00$75a0fea9@athlon2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Larry It's John on 27 under Corvair power here. Really keen to hear of your fuel consumption, engine/prop parameters, gross weight, density altitudes and any else I can compare with my experiences. Aren't they just a delight to formate in :-). I'm about to leave my home field and try some cross country to a outlanding pretty soon. Se Ya The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 10:27 AM Subject: KR> 40.2 hours :-) :-) > > > Netters, > > I spent a full day playing in the KR. I flew formation most of the > day snip..... ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:01:35 +1000 From: "Ross Evans" Subject: RE: KR> delaminations! To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hi larry bubbles between the glass and the foam none on the spar lines at all just several on the foam! cheers >From: larry flesner >Reply-To: KRnet >To: KRnet >Subject: KR> delaminations! >Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:12:44 -0500 > >At 11:14 PM 4/22/04 +1000, you wrote: > >hi I am interested on what people have found on wing delaminations on >fixing > >and prevention i have one wing that is perfect and one that has > >several I have used epoxy and drilled holes injected resin and > >sandbagged the area >is > >this sufficient! > >Ross >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >Could you be more specific on what you call "delaminations"? Are you >talking "bubbles" on the wing, glass layers coming apart at a seam, >glass coming loose from the spar, trail edge separations, etc., etc.? > >Different problems have different solutions and different answers. Some >might be fixable, some might not (glass coming off spar, re-do it!). > >Larry Flesner > > > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _________________________________________________________________ Protect your inbox from harmful viruses with new ninemsn Premium. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp?banner=emailtag&referrer=hotmail ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:57:31 +0000 From: Subject: Re: KR> parts for sale To: KRnet Message-ID: <200404261155.i3QBtMOg081388@mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Brian, Have you forgot... At SNF I asked to purchase your tail wheel from your old plane. Sent you an Email off the list last week. You must not have received it. If this is the one (complete assym) for $20.00 Please tag it and bag it. I will send you a check. Let me know Steven Phillabaum Auburn, Alabama scrounging parts > > From: "Brian Kraut" > Date: 2004/04/26 Mon AM 02:14:02 GMT > To: "KRnet" > Subject: KR> parts for sale > > The project I just bought has the RR tail wheel and two (don't ask me > why) tail wheel springs that I am not going to use. Rand lists the > spring at $25 and the tail wheel at $65. I will sell the springs for > $20 each and the tail wheel for $55 and ship it FedEx ground for free. > I will split the parts up. I also have the old used one I took off my > last KR that I will sell for $20. > > I am also fairly sure that I want to sell the Diehl wing skins and > stub skins. I need the money to complete the plane more than I need > the time it will save me over building the wings. I will consider > full or partial trades for some of the other items I need like an > engine, engine mount, instruments, avionics, or wheels and brakes. > > I would also like to sell my Diehl gear legs and the axle attach > fittings. The legs are glassed and have the straw for the brake line. > They are not drilled for the attach fittings yet. I am going to > either mold or buy longer legs. I would consider selling the gear > attach fittings also, but they are drilled for my spar already and I > would need to buy new ones and drill them so don't expect a great deal > on them. > > Email me direct at brian.kraut@engalt.com if interrested. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:05:15 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: RE: KR> delaminations! To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040426070515.007e06c0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >hi larry bubbles between the glass and the foam none on the spar lines >at >all just several on the foam! >cheers(Ross) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Ross, I have no scientific proof but my THEORY on "bubbles" is that there was a dry spot under the glass at that point. If the glass is not bonded to the foam well and the top is sealed over with resin, primer, paint, etc., when the sun hits it and expands the trapped air it causes a bubble. I did my foam/glass layup in two steps. I first sealed the foam with slurry and let it cure. When cured I made one or two swipes with some sand paper to remove the "prickleys" and then laid up the glass. It makes for a less hurried one-man operation when doing the wings for one thing and I'm convinced the bond between the glass/resin and the cured slurry is just as good as the one step process. I've pulled cured glass off of foam that was laid up using the standard process (seal and glass at one time), my process (seal and let cure then glass), and glass laid up on foam with no sealing of the foam. I can't tell any difference on the amount of foam that peels off with the glass. In all three cases you get maybe +/- 1/16" of foam. So, to answer your question, I'd say yes to the resin and weight routine. Anything to get the glass to lay flat and bond to the foam should work. A glass to structure (spar, fuselage, etc.) bubble would be a whole different bag of worms. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:14:29 +0000 From: Subject: KR> Where is "Art" To: Message-ID: <200404261212.i3QCCJMd094439@mxsf06.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 At SNF I met a fellow named Art. I lost his info. Does anyone know how to get in touch with him. Steven Phillabaum Auburn Alabama scrounging parts (334) 887-5641 ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:05:48 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: Re: KR> parts for sale To: KRnet Message-ID: <200404260905.AA132383060@mail.engalt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry, I have been pretty busy and have not got back to you yet. I am going to use the Matco on the new plane and that is why I am going to sell the Rand parts that came with it. I was looking at the Matco a few days ago and I started thinking that if your brother wants to make castings why not just make an entire new assembly we can sell. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Reply-To: KRnet Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:57:31 +0000 >Brian, Have you forgot... At SNF I asked to purchase your tail wheel >from your old plane. Sent you an Email off the list last week. You >must not have received it. If this is the one (complete assym) for >$20.00 Please tag it and bag it. I will send you a check. Let me know > >Steven Phillabaum >Auburn, Alabama >scrounging parts >> >> From: "Brian Kraut" >> Date: 2004/04/26 Mon AM 02:14:02 GMT >> To: "KRnet" >> Subject: KR> parts for sale >> >> The project I just bought has the RR tail wheel and two (don't ask me >> why) tail wheel springs that I am not going to use. Rand lists the >> spring at $25 and the tail wheel at $65. I will sell the springs for >> $20 each and the tail wheel for $55 and ship it FedEx ground for >> free. I will split the parts up. I also have the old used one I >> took off my last KR that I will sell for $20. >> >> I am also fairly sure that I want to sell the Diehl wing skins and >> stub skins. I need the money to complete the plane more than I need >> the time it will save me over building the wings. I will consider >> full or partial trades for some of the other items I need like an >> engine, engine mount, instruments, avionics, or wheels and brakes. >> >> I would also like to sell my Diehl gear legs and the axle attach >> fittings. The legs are glassed and have the straw for the brake line. >> They are not drilled for the attach fittings yet. I am going to >> either mold or buy longer legs. I would consider selling the gear >> attach fittings also, but they are drilled for my spar already and I >> would need to buy new ones and drill them so don't expect a great >> deal on them. >> >> Email me direct at brian.kraut@engalt.com if interrested. >> >> Brian Kraut >> Engineering Alternatives, Inc. >> www.engalt.com >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:08:39 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: Re: KR> Where is "Art" To: KRnet Message-ID: <200404260908.AA223871302@mail.engalt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think that would be Art Bruce, one of the nicest people I have become friends with in KR land. I have his email address at home and will send it to you. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Reply-To: KRnet Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:14:29 +0000 >At SNF I met a fellow named Art. I lost his info. Does anyone know how >to get in touch with him. > >Steven Phillabaum >Auburn Alabama >scrounging parts >(334) 887-5641 > > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:14:08 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: Re: KR> parts for sale To: , KRnet Message-ID: <200404260914.AA101056572@mail.engalt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry, didn't mean to sent that to the whole list. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Brian Kraut" Reply-To: brian.kraut@engalt.com, KRnet Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:05:48 -0400 >Sorry, I have been pretty busy and have not got back to you yet. > >I am going to use the Matco on the new plane and that is why I am going >to sell the Rand parts that came with it. > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:47:39 -0300 From: "Nieto, Daniel A (Dany)" Subject: RE: KR> KR 2 for sale To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain Is it someting bad with the link ???....or it is already sold ??... Danny -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Angus [mailto:kangus@talkcycle.com] Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 11:35 PM To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> KR 2 for sale Bet it goes for around $6,500 - It's at $3,550.00 now (2030 MST, Sunday) with 4 days and 18 hours left http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63677&item =2475624695&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Stephen and Janet Henderson Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 6:49 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> KR 2 for sale Hello everyone, There is a KR 2 for sale on ebay. It needs a little work. The current bidding is up to $2,025. Steve Henderson _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:17:59 -0400 From: "mierz@wcoil.com" Subject: RE: KR> KR 2 for sale To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040426091759.0086e960@pop3.wcoil.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My kr2 , I am sorry to report my kr2 is for sale on barnstormers ,take a look , no disappointments . Complete and ready to fly !!! KevinAt 10:47 AM 4/26/04 -0300, you wrote: > >Is it someting bad with the link ???....or it is already sold ??... > >Danny > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kevin Angus [mailto:kangus@talkcycle.com] >Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 11:35 PM >To: KRnet >Subject: RE: KR> KR 2 for sale > > >Bet it goes for around $6,500 - It's at $3,550.00 now (2030 MST, >Sunday) with 4 days and 18 hours left >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63677 >&item >=2475624695&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW > >-----Original Message----- >From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On >Behalf Of Stephen and Janet Henderson >Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2004 6:49 PM >To: KRnet >Subject: KR> KR 2 for sale > > >Hello everyone, > > There is a KR 2 for sale on ebay. It needs a little work. The >current bidding is up to $2,025. > >Steve Henderson > > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.663 / Virus Database: 426 - Release Date: 4/20/04 > -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.663 / Virus Database: 426 - Release Date: 4/20/04 ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:06:51 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> KR 2 for sale To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040426090651.007e6bc0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:47 AM 4/26/04 -0300, you wrote: >Is it someting bad with the link ???....or it is already sold ??... >Danny ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ try the following: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63677&ite= 2475624695&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:09:47 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> KR 2 for sale To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040426090947.007ea100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:06 AM 4/26/04 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:47 AM 4/26/04 -0300, you wrote: >>Is it someting bad with the link ???....or it is already sold ??... >>Danny >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63677 >&ite= >2475624695&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW >Larry Flesner ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ That didn't come through right either. You need the whole address listed, not just the "highlighted" part. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 07:04:39 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" Subject: Re: KR> Successful VW Conversion To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: <005c01c42b97$6a6cfc80$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey all I would like to let everyone know that Vee Dubber KNOWS what he is talking about and is more than willing to share. Our own Mark Langford uses many of the details Robert spoke of in his message,( Mark please correct me if I am wrong about that.) believe me we all could learn alot from Mr. Hoover. Robert it would be great if you would give us a link to the board you are on and please keep watching the Kr net and sharing with us. Thanks Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Gill To: KRnet Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 7:05 PM Subject: RE: KR> Successful VW Conversion > OK Vee Dubber, you've got my attention. Let's assume we don't lack > the background. How about giving us the complete answer so that myths > can finally be separated from reality. I have embedded two questions > in your reply. Thanks, > Murray Gill > > > If not, why not? > > > > There isn't a concise answer for that. And without meaning to sound > > like a put-down, there's a strong possibility you lack the > background to > > appreciate the complete answer. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Winning engines are not only powerful they are superbly reliable. Their > reliability comes >from a myriad of details not found in the typical flying > Volkswagen > > OK what are these details? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > Valid information is available but like the man said, after leading > > the > horse to > > water the rest of the job is up to the horse. > > > Where do I find the valid information? > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---- > > > > > > There sure are a lot of them flying. Insurance companies seem to > > > like > them. > > great comments - I agree with you > > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:27:51 -0500 From: "Sharon and Darryl DuRossette" Subject: KR> KR for sale bad link To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <410-220044126142751390@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII The email program with the link truncated (wrapped around to the next line) part of the address. HOW TO FIX in Internet explorer: click on the link in the email - you will get an error message on ebay. go back to the email and highlight the next line after the link (left click and hold as you drag the cursor over the line ). Only that next line should be highlighted. hit "ctrl" and the "c" keys together - or - you can click on edit at the top then copy go back to ebay error page and place your cursor on the end of the URL Address and hit the "ctrl" and "v" keys together or edit at the top and paste. If that seems too difficult, you can always write down the second line in the email and manually type it in the address to the URL address. Finally, open ebay, go to search and enter 2475624695 That should get you there Darryl DuRossette ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:55:54 -0500 From: "John Bergen" Subject: RE: KR>Are the "sermons' still around anywhere?? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've been searching but can't seem to find them. ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:25:32 -0500 From: "Larry A Capps" Subject: KR> delaminations! To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000801c42ba2$b6cde660$0500a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The term Hard-Shelling (circa 1980) - is the practice of covering foam with micro slurry, letting it cure, sanding it and then applying a fiberglass layup over the top. (not recommended) _______ Larry A Capps Naperville, IL "There are no liars in the lab. Take down the data the way it happened. You may not be able to Interpret the data, nor your professor. But if it's valid data, someone, sometime is going to thank you for it." - unknown -----Original Message----- I did my foam/glass layup in two steps. I first sealed the foam with slurry and let it cure. When cured I made one or two swipes with some sand paper to remove the "prickleys" and then laid up the glass. my process (seal and let cure then glass), and glass laid up on foam with no sealing of the foam. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:49:11 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> delaminations! To: larry.capps@comcast.net,KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040426104911.007e4a70@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:25 AM 4/26/04 -0500, you wrote: >The term Hard-Shelling (circa 1980) - is the practice of covering foam >with micro slurry, letting it cure, sanding it and then applying a >fiberglass layup over the top. (not recommended) Larry A Capps ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Were there reasons given for "not recommending" that process? It seems to have worked quite well for me. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:07:23 -0700 From: "Wayne Israelsen" Subject: Re: KR> Successful VW Conversion To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <018101c42ba8$903f8ac0$6701a8c0@HISPEEDWIRELESS.COM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hey all Remember Mr. Hoover helped a freind named Ken test some parts for a small fast Dynel coverd plane He was loosely basing on the Taylor mono plane;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:00 AM Subject: Re: KR> Successful VW Conversion > In a message dated 4/23/2004 7:46:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > drupert@sympatico.ca writes: > > > Sic em Bob. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > You may have mistaken me for a junk-yard dog :-) > > Bottom line is that I like to fly; I enjoy it. Toward that end I'd > like to > see millions of people flying rather than the dwindling tens of > thousands we're > presently down to. More airmen means a bigger voice. The politicians listen > -- with their hand out -- and a bigger voice is easier for them to > hear. > > Alas, flying has become too expensive for the majority of Americans. > The bean-counters that have taken over general aviation discount that > simple truth by > citing fallacious statistics reflecting Average Income or Household > Income when the reality of economic survival is reflected by the > nation's median income, presently somewhere around $28k based on > adjusted Census 2000 data. > > That's the folks I want to get into the air. And there's about sixty-eight > million of them out there. I've found they are just as eager to go > flying as > the fat cats and far more attuned to the realities of grass roots aviation. > > When you're talking powered flight one of those realities is a > reliable powerplant. In that regard the best bet for the lo-buck > builder is probably an > industrial engine from Ford or GM but their use dictates a substantial airframe > such as a Piet, the cost and size of which is often beyond the means > or facilities of such builders. A smaller airframe, such as a Teenie > Two or KR tends to > be among the first considered by lo-buck builders and that concept is > vali d > so long as the powerplant doesn't break the bank. > > Putting the prop on the clutch-end of the crank and a coaxially > mounted PM dynamo on the other converts the VW engine into a > reasonably reliable powerplant > at minimum cost. Best of all, the required skill-level for such a conversion > is low. > > Nothing promotes progress so well as success. Based on my mail, about half > of which comes from other countries, the simple, inexpensive yet > reliable method of conversion I've been advocating since the 1970's offers a higher > probability of successful flight for the newbie. Not high-speed flight nor > long-range flight but simply hauling their ass into the air at a price they can afford. > > Seems like a good idea to me. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- ---- > > > > The KR was originally designed for low cost > > and excellent cruising speed. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- --- > > I'll go with the low cost but the open cockpit on Kenny's Original > Receipe is > fair evidence speed was not a major consideration. (Yeah, I noticed the > retractable gear and the canopy :-) The KR is fairly clean right out of the > box. The wide speed range (ie, cruz vs stall) is simply the dividend > of a light, > aerodynamically efficient airframe. > > Fact is, if you clean up a Teenie Two -- or any of the other lo-buck > one-holes (S-22, Windwagen, etc.) -- you'll see a nice improvement in > your cruise > speed. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- ---- > ------- > > Now before the flaming starts remember one > > > > thing, we are aiming for performance and reliability. > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- ---- > - > > Not me. Maybe forty years ago. Now I'm more interested in getting > there than in how fast I do so. Reliability. Durability. > AFFORDABILITY. Then maybe > performance. I like dull engines. No excitement at all :-) > > -R.S.Hoover > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:46:41 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" Subject: KR> Make your WAFs and wings inspectable!! To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001901c42bae$0de91720$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Netters, This is the latest episode of my story of a South-African built KR2 that I am now trying to register in France. This piece will come with a word of warning: guys, make sure your WAFs and wings will remain inspectable in the future!! I went to Orleans this week-end, and spent a few hours working on my plane, with the aim of preparing it for the inspection of all critical areas, as agreed with the local inspectors. Let's say I had no success. - First of all, my attempt to drill inspection holes along the spars was a mess. I used the wrong drill, it hadn't got a variator; the spar end surfaces were not flat either... oh well, never mind, I'll find a better idea for next time. - Second, I got a very bad surprise while I was trying to drill inspection holes for the WAFs nuts and bolts. Not only had they been painted over, but also, some of them had been epoxied over! I suspect the reason is when long range aluminium fuel tanks were installed in the leading edge of the stubwings, the guy who did it found it convenient to repaint the bolts, ; then, he moved the stringer, and epoxied it in place without bothering about the bolts... Now, this is bad, because it is now impossible to check the bolts for corrosion, let alone to check their torque, which is what the inspector requested. So, I'm back a few steps. I guess I will have to find a way to remove and replace those bolts! On the bright side, the experimental club has got a Jodel D18 for hire, at a bargain proce, so that will keep me busy! Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC - Taildragger, VW powered (2.4 liter, dual electronic ignition) - Total aircraft time: 390h - Aircraft hangared at: Orleans, France - Pilot moaning in: Tunis, Tunisia E-mail: serge.vidal@ate-international.com ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:05:42 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: KR> delaminations! To: , "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c42bb0$b95ee920$da64a8c0@homedesktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The term Hard-Shelling (circa 1980) - is the practice of covering foam with micro slurry, letting it cure, sanding it and then applying a fiberglass layup over the top. (not recommended) ..................................................... Hi Larry C - can you say a bit more here. This is precisely the mistake I would make (working alone). Not unlike Larry F my rationale would be to avoid rushing and do it in two steps - I would happily believe that I was going to achieve BETTER results by taking my time. Is this not similar to a second lay-up (over a cured lay-up) with whatever precautions would apply, like peel ply or sanding? In this particular case I would have thought that the adhesion of the subsequent cloth /resin to the layer of cured micro, however low, would be substantially better that then mechanic strength of the core material. i.e. - no matter how it was done, the bond (and shallow penetration zone) between micro and foam would always be the weakest link. Regards Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:36:24 -0500 From: "Larry A Capps" Subject: KR> delaminations! To: "'Stephen Jacobs'" , "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000a01c42bbd$613a4ac0$0500a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hard-Shelling can be problematic as far as (secondary bond) adhesion is concerned. If we look microscopically at the top of the hard-shelled part, we will see peaks and valleys. These valleys would not be easily sanded without great effort and the possibility exists of sanding into the foam part in many areas. There's no way to adequately remove blush and impurities in these valleys without removing the thin layer of micro applied. The problem with hard-shelling exists at the surface level of the micro applied. Questions to ponder: Even if one were to vacuum bag the micro slurried part, to create a uniformed hard-shelled part, how would one sand the part adequately to get adhesion across the surface? Could you actually use peel ply to prepare the surface properly for the secondary bonding? Does a problem exist with "secondary bonding" to the hard-shelled part, in which adhesion is not taking place uniformly across the part? If I hard-shell, will the microscopic imperfections of the bond effect me down the road, after years of use and differing temperatures and altitudes my plane will be subjected to? Best regards, Larry A. Capps Naperville, IL "The quickest way to double your money is to fold it in half and put it back in your pocket." -----Original Message----- The term Hard-Shelling (circa 1980) - is the practice of covering foam with micro slurry, letting it cure, sanding it and then applying a fiberglass layup over the top. (not recommended) ..................................................... can you say a bit more here. This is precisely the mistake I would make (working alone). Is this not similar to a second lay-up (over a cured lay-up) with whatever precautions would apply, like peel ply or sanding? In this particular case I would have thought that the adhesion of the subsequent cloth /resin to the layer of cured micro, however low, would be substantially better that then mechanic strength of the core material. i.e. - no matter how it was done, the bond (and shallow penetration zone) between micro and foam would always be the weakest link. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 44 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================