From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 50 Date: 7/28/2004 1:18:04 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 49 (Jumpnkd@aol.com) 2. Re: RE: West Coast Gathering (David Hartz) 3. RE: Time to decide (Stephen Jacobs) 4. Re: should i finish or start with the new wing design? (Dan Heath) 5. Re: Intake Deflector for revflow (Dan Heath) 6. 3 View Drawing (Dan Heath) 7. 3 view drawing (Colin & Bev Rainey) 8. Re: 3 view drawing (Dan Heath) 9. Re: 3 view drawing (Frlfarmer@wmconnect.com) 10. Help needed to get me started... (Duncan) 11. Re: law of unitended consequences/Sport Pilot (Dana Overall) 12. Kr business and it flying (Colin & Bev Rainey) 13. Gathering (Mark Jones) 14. KR inspections (Ron Eason) 15. RE: KR inspections (Mark Jones) 16. RE: KR inspections (Mark Jones) 17. Re: @WL Re: KR> law of unitended consequences/Sport Pilot (gleone) 18. Tech Counselors (Colin & Bev Rainey) 19. Re: KR inspections (Bernard McLean Sr) 20. Re: Tech Counselors (Boeing757mech1@aol.com) 21. KR inspections (Ron Eason) 22. Re: KR inspections (Jack Cooper) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 01:59:09 EDT From: Jumpnkd@aol.com Subject: KR> Re: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 49 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <76.3eb3dc05.2e389aad@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" with all the talk about changing washout and the new wing out there and my kr2 in the stage where i am ready to start building again. I ask i have one wing top foamed and the bottom to go and one to start on should i finish or start with the new wing design? "People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it." George Bernard Shaw, (1856-1950) Irish playwight and winner of the Nobel Prize for Literature 1925 Yours Bill ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:06:30 -0700 (PDT) From: David Hartz Subject: Re: KR> RE: West Coast Gathering To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040728060630.40168.qmail@web41313.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii RICK I AM IN NOVATO. WHERE ARE YOU? I'AM BUILDING A KR2. DAVE --- rickcoy@comcast.net wrote: > Hi John, > > I'm building my KR-2 just outside of San Francisco > and am interested in a West Coast Gathering. > > Regards, > > Rick Coykendall > > >To: > >Subject: KR> West Coast Gathering > >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 20:15:51 -0700 > > > >All > >I am keeping a list, to include email addresses, > of who would be > >interested in a West Coast Gathering. So far I have > 12 people, including > >myself. > >It might be too late for this year or not. > Feelings? > > > >John Esch > >KR-2SSW > >Independence, OR (7S5) > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:40:21 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Time to decide To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c4747e$8a063360$4864a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Now I am torn between following the manual or using something less than 3.5 degrees to yield a more "normal" in-flight nose up/down attitude. Then I ask myself, "If I use less than 3.5 degrees at the fuselage, what happens to the normal wing tip washout of +.5 degrees...does it become negative? stay the same or what?" +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bernard You have received several replies to this question, most of them address elements of the topic but I am not sure that you have heard enough help you make a firm decision. If this is old hat ignore, but just in case. As you know, washout means setting the wing tips at a lesser incidence angle (than the inboard side). The purpose for this reduced incidence at the tip is to ensure that the wing tips stall last (relative to the rest of the wing). This reduces the likelihood of "tip stalls" (wing dropping) and makes the airplane less likely to spin when stalled. Loads more could be said about this, but that is the gist of washout. Because it is the improved stalling characteristics at the wing tip that we want - some airplanes have little (or no) angular washout as such - instead they have a different wing (airfoil) section at the tip that stalls at a higher angle (and thus delays the outboard stall). It is also true that there are aircraft with zero washout of any nature. How much washout? Any amount of washout will contribute to the above advantage, but as we add washout (reduce incidence over some of the wing) we also reduce the amount of lift the wing is creating. As such, washout is good - but only to a point. I would suggest that somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 degrees of reduced incidence at the tips would NORMALLY be about right. But normally the washout (wing twist) would start where the wing "starts" - right by the fuselage. Because the KR has a centre section, the washout only starts where the outer wing panel starts, so we need to get in a bit more twist over a shorter distance. The angular amount should thus be a bit more - so maybe 2.0 to 3.0 degrees for a KR. The optimum amount is effected by so many things (wing section, wing span, wing loading, speed range, mission requirement, etc.), but I believe that anything in this zone will do the job. To refine your decision, have a close look at web sites like Langford and Reid - they discuss their reasons for what they have decided on - these are informed opinions. Above we talk about the angular relationship of the wing tip to the wing root. Your other question is about incidence - the relationship between the whole wing (washout and all) to the fuselage. Kenny made it 3.5 degrees (root) and hundreds of KR's are happily flying about like that. The little bird looks a bit like an Apache helicopter on a beat-up, but the nose-down "sit" is a part of the KR character. So, for openers, the plans way works just fine. It is however also true that 3.5 degrees is not very efficient for the KR as it has evolved, particularly for the airplanes that are aspiring to 140mph and more. It does not sound like you are using the new wing section so it is less significant for your KR, but 1.5 to 2 degrees less than the plans call for may be a good idea. Ask 10 guys and you will get 11 different answers. The 12th answer is (RAF 48) 2 degrees at the root with 2 degrees washout (0 at the tip). Take care Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 05:55:59 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Re: should i finish or start with the new wing design? To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4107782F.000018.01816@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The answer to this question, lies in your mission statement, or purpose for building this plane. First of all, do you want to build or do you want to fly? Is speed your main purpose and you are willing to do what ever you have to, to get it? That is the beauty of this plane, you get to decide. "There is a time for building and a time for GOING TO THE GATHERING, and the time for building has long since expired." See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering http://KRGathering.org See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:07:54 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Intake Deflector for revflow To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41077AFA.00001C.01816@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" We are using an Ellison which emits the fuel across the entire opening of the carb. I have read about the deflectors and do believe that they work, but have never had to use one because of the way the Ellison works. "There is a time for building and a time for GOING TO THE GATHERING, and the time for building has long since expired." See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering http://KRGathering.org See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:10:09 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> 3 View Drawing To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41077B81.000020.01816@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Does anyone have a 3 view drawing of a KR2? "There is a time for building and a time for GOING TO THE GATHERING, and the time for building has long since expired." See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering http://KRGathering.org See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:26:21 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> 3 view drawing To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008401c4748d$545369e0$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan I asked that myself alittle while ago when I was putting together my inspection package because the sample cover letter mentioned in the FAA Advisory Circular stated that I would provide one with my application for airworthiness. It says that you will either provide a 3 view drawing or pictures, so I took 3 view pictures and printed them on one 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of printer paper and included it with my application packet as described on the letter. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:40:19 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> 3 view drawing To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <41078293.000022.01816@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The reason that I need it is because I am trying to get a very good sim of the KR2 and I need some accurate drawings to do this. Ameet and I worked on one for a while, but never could get it right. I have solicited some help from a person who I believe can get the perfect X-Plane sim for a KR2 and that is why I need this kind of stuff. I have flown this sim and it is quite good, but first, you have to get a realistic plane, which so far, I have not been able to do. "There is a time for building and a time for GOING TO THE GATHERING, and the time for building has long since expired." See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering http://KRGathering.org See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 07/28/04 06:24:52 To: KRnet Subject: KR> 3 view drawing Dan I asked that myself alittle while ago when I was putting together my inspection package because the sample cover letter mentioned in the FAA Advisory Circular stated that I would provide one with my application for airworthiness. It says that you will either provide a 3 view drawing or pictures, so I took 3 view pictures and printed them on one 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of printer paper and included it with my application packet as described on the letter. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html . ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:44:21 EDT From: Frlfarmer@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: KR> 3 view drawing To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <15d.3aec5826.2e38dd85@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" What kind of cad file do you need. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 22:49:56 +1200 From: Duncan Subject: KR> Help needed to get me started... To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040728210108.023f5940@styx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi there, As Scott Cable has indicated, I am no longer able to purchase his excellent project, and have to revert to the original intention: scratch-building. The reason? SCD (Sudden Cash Deficiency). My Toyota MR-S sports car which was to finance the purchase of Scott's KR project was badly damaged by a prospective buyer, who left me with damaged goods and many bills to pay. Yes, it isn't fair, and yes, I'm pursuing legal remedies - but nothing comes cheap or quickly. So, it's back to the plans, the boat, and lay-ups. So, some timely help will be very welcome. Question: If I'm going to be building this bird from scratch, I'll be incorporating some of the 'standard' mods (longer fusalage, laminated & bent spars, new airfoil). Mark Langford's website offers the following comment regarding lengthening the fusalage: "I wouldn't have stretched the stabilizer at all had I possessed the foresight to extend my fuselage length another 14 inches(using the full 14' of longeron material that Wicks ships) by simply adding one more bay behind the aft spar for an increased moment arm." So I guess the question is: When ordering my wood from Wicks/AcSpruce, how long should I ask for the longerons to be? Longer than the 14' standard length shipped by Wicks - they will make them longer if required? How long is optimal - if one has the freedom to choose? Question: If I order longer longerons, will I also need to order extra plywood? My plans haven't arrived yet, and as you can hear, I need a little bit of help to get started... Regards, Duncan ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:55:59 -0400 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: KR> law of unitended consequences/Sport Pilot To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "Joachim Saupe" >Motorgliders can already be operated without a medical. Just self >certification. Also they don't have the speed limitations. I did not address this in my initial response as his original question specifically asked about the applicability of wing design and sport pilot qualification. I'm still having a hard time seeing the usefullness of the sport pilot for anyone other than ultralights. If you have a condition which would preclude you from receiving a 3rd. class med. then you can't self certify yourself. If you can get a third, why not just get a private. If you want to fly under self certification go with a motor glider. SP just doesn't hold much water in my bucket. As for the 25K thing, I haven't seen anything to indicate that will be a starting point for new sport pilot/motorglider configurations. I know of one that will be substantially less than that figure. Heck, with the KR Motorglider, isn't there a pic somewhere of one flying. Anybody know where it's at? Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 07:05:58 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Kr business and it flying To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <009901c47492$de88efe0$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bob Stone and netters First off I don't think Jeanette neglects her business, I think that she has an active life and that she takes care of the obvious customers and those that are shopping sometimes don't receive the sales pitching that some other kit plane people have folks doing, which is why your plans cost what they do from Jeanette, instead of 25-50 thousand dollars for a kit only to get the plane you want. Secondly. There is some misunderstanding that an aircraft cannot be a high performance aircraft just because it is under 200 hp output from its engine. This is merely a mandatory figure supported by the FAA, not an assessment of the industry. The Italian Cri Cri is a high performance airplane, but has twin 40hp 2 cycle engines to power it. A friend of mine flew me in his T-18 with a IO-360 with constant speed prop, which by definition is not high performance, yet at a power setting of 23in and 2300rpms, what would only deliver 120knots in the Piper Arrow, we were scooting along at 165knots. I did a barrel roll at 145knots and never moved the stick more than 1/2 to the side. We did a loop and never pulled back and pushed forward more than 3/4of an inch. This aircraft was as sensitive as the Schweizer helicopter that I flew, but it was wonderful. Large control surfaces mean safety at slow speeds because you never run out of authority if you are within the CG envelope. The KR attracts alot of people who want to fly cheap, but since they are on the lower end of the aviation economy, they also have the least number of hours. This by default limits their experience to spam can trainers made to be trimmed hands off and left alone putting around at 85-95 knots. I have even flown some C172s that had engine upgrades to 180 & 200 hp and when you went for 75% cruise and pushed them up to 120-125knot cruise you could not achieve a trimmed for hands off flight. You were putting small inputs in all the time, just like I hear the KR pilots talk about. Last year I made 2 trips to Atlanta from Sanford in a Mooney 20J, 200hp plane. This little hotrod flew at 160KTAS at 8000feet, and indicated 150. And let me tell you, it needed little inputs throughout the entire flight. There was no taking your hands off for long periods of time. My point is if that is what you want, you are interested in the wrong type of airplanes all together. Go by a little C152 or C172 and cruise at 50-60% power and have fun. If more is what you are after build the plane of choice, GO GET ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATE TRAINING and go fly! Do not expect your private training to have all your answers for these breed of airplanes. And do not expect the low hour CFI at the local FBO to have any experience appropriate to your needs either. You need a seasoned pro with more than 4 planes in his logbook. Lastly. Have you netters been reading Mark L's posts? He is investing in himself. He is going out and getting current and proficient in as many planes as he can that are like the KR. But just as important he is getting up in the air. It takes more than just the legal 3 take offs and landings in 90 days to stay safe. I have only had 20 -30 hours a month in the last 2 months and I am beginning to feel rusty. How many have you logged? You don't want to log just enough to feel the anxiety go away, you want to log enough to be able to quit thinking about the right thing to do, and just do it so that you can fly the plane, think about other planes around you and God forbid, plan on where you are going to land if you lose an engine. Not a flight goes by when I am not planning on where to land if I lose my engine, all the way through the flight. It is just habit. Do you do this? Do you practice engine out glides to the runway where you have to plan on making it because you will only get one shot? The KR is like any other plane, it is only dangerous, or unforgiving, or overly sensitive to those lacking the proper understanding of how it truly works and what its limits are. You have the choices, go make good ones....see you at the Gathering..... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 08:13:58 -0500 From: Mark Jones Subject: KR> Gathering To: KR Net Message-ID: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC201902ADC@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain 57 short days and YOU WILL BE at the GATHERING. Won't you? Mark Jones Mueller Sales Corporation Ph: 262-781-5310 Fax:262-781-4130 E-mail: mjones@muellersales.com Web: www.muellersales.com ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:05:33 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: KR> KR inspections To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002d01c474ab$f2c51b50$6601a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I mite add the FAA will ask questions, like do you belong to the EAA and has a EAA Technical Counselor seen the construction. I think it's a good to say yes, another good idea is to have photos of these inspections and others involved in helping your building activities. I have a aeronautical degree and respect the experience of these people involved in the process. KRron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:23 PM Subject: Re: KR> Time to decide > There are no required inspections for any phase of building except the > airworthiness inspection. Any inspections done prior to airworthiness > are purely voluntarily done by EAA Technical Counselors and are not > required by > the FAA to acquire an airworthiness certificate. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bernard McLean Sr" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:11 PM > Subject: Re: KR> Time to decide > > > > All of my spars have been finished and closed since 1986 when I had > > to put this project on hold due to lack of space and time. I wasn't > > aware that a pre-closing inspection was required for the spars. I > > just followed the builder's manual and varnished each cavity (not > > the glued surfaces!) and closed them up. They have been plastic > > wrapped for the past 18 years and still look fine and fit the > > fuselage cut-outs perfectly (and yield a perfect 3.5* incidence). It > > looks like I can't go too far wrong if I follow the manual and use > > 3.5* washing out to .5* at the tips. > > Thanks for the input. > > See you all at Mount Vernon. > > Bernie McLean > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:36:05 -0500 From: Mark Jones Subject: RE: KR> KR inspections To: 'Ron Eason' , 'KRnet' Message-ID: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC201902ADD@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain Good Point Ron. Another thing which was suggested by my Tech Counselor was that you enter in your building logs the Tech Counselors inspection dates and highlight them so the FAA sees them easily. He also suggested that the builder do periodic inspections and also log that and highlight it in your builder log. Apparently the FAA loves to see the word inspection in you builders log so make it visible to them. Mark Jones Flykr2s@wi.rr.com Wales, WI -----Original Message----- From: Ron Eason [mailto:ron@jrl-engineering.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:06 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> KR inspections I mite add the FAA will ask questions, like do you belong to the EAA and has a EAA Technical Counselor seen the construction. I think it's a good to say yes, another good idea is to have photos of these inspections and others involved in helping your building activities. I have a aeronautical degree and respect the experience of these people involved in the process. KRron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:23 PM Subject: Re: KR> Time to decide > There are no required inspections for any phase of building except the > airworthiness inspection. Any inspections done prior to airworthiness > are purely voluntarily done by EAA Technical Counselors and are not > required by > the FAA to acquire an airworthiness certificate. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bernard McLean Sr" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:11 PM > Subject: Re: KR> Time to decide > > > > All of my spars have been finished and closed since 1986 when I had > > to put this project on hold due to lack of space and time. I wasn't > > aware that a pre-closing inspection was required for the spars. I > > just followed the builder's manual and varnished each cavity (not > > the glued surfaces!) and closed them up. They have been plastic > > wrapped for the past 18 years and still look fine and fit the > > fuselage cut-outs perfectly (and yield a perfect 3.5* incidence). It > > looks like I can't go too far wrong if I follow the manual and use > > 3.5* washing out to .5* at the tips. > > Thanks for the input. > > See you all at Mount Vernon. > > Bernie McLean > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:44:25 -0500 From: Mark Jones Subject: RE: KR> KR inspections To: 'KRnet' Message-ID: <370D915E4564D611B0530050DABB9FC201902ADE@SIC-EXCHANGE> Content-Type: text/plain One more thing about inspections. If you have a minimum of 3 inspections done by a certified EAA Tech Counselor, you are eligible for a 10% discount on your aircraft insurance. But of course, you should have a lot more than 3 Tech Counselor inspections, right. Mark Jones Flykr2s@wi.rr.com Wales, WI -----Original Message----- From: Mark Jones [mailto:Mjones@muellersales.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:36 AM To: 'Ron Eason'; 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> KR inspections Good Point Ron. Another thing which was suggested by my Tech Counselor was that you enter in your building logs the Tech Counselors inspection dates and highlight them so the FAA sees them easily. He also suggested that the builder do periodic inspections and also log that and highlight it in your builder log. Apparently the FAA loves to see the word inspection in you builders log so make it visible to them. Mark Jones Flykr2s@wi.rr.com Wales, WI -----Original Message----- From: Ron Eason [mailto:ron@jrl-engineering.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:06 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> KR inspections I mite add the FAA will ask questions, like do you belong to the EAA and has a EAA Technical Counselor seen the construction. I think it's a good to say yes, another good idea is to have photos of these inspections and others involved in helping your building activities. I have a aeronautical degree and respect the experience of these people involved in the process. KRron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:23 PM Subject: Re: KR> Time to decide > There are no required inspections for any phase of building except the > airworthiness inspection. Any inspections done prior to airworthiness > are purely voluntarily done by EAA Technical Counselors and are not > required by > the FAA to acquire an airworthiness certificate. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bernard McLean Sr" > To: "KRnet" > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 8:11 PM > Subject: Re: KR> Time to decide > > > > All of my spars have been finished and closed since 1986 when I had > > to put this project on hold due to lack of space and time. I wasn't > > aware that a pre-closing inspection was required for the spars. I > > just followed the builder's manual and varnished each cavity (not > > the glued surfaces!) and closed them up. They have been plastic > > wrapped for the past 18 years and still look fine and fit the > > fuselage cut-outs perfectly (and yield a perfect 3.5* incidence). It > > looks like I can't go too far wrong if I follow the manual and use > > 3.5* washing out to .5* at the tips. > > Thanks for the input. > > See you all at Mount Vernon. > > Bernie McLean > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:33:20 -0600 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" Subject: Re: @WL Re: KR> law of unitended consequences/Sport Pilot To: Message-ID: <4107C740.00000B.02500@YOUR-FD6NVJCER4> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'm building a KR-1/-1B. The reasons are: (A) I enjoy soaring: Makes twice the pilot out of you in half the time while still giving you the opportunity to fly a missed approach; something you don't get in a normal glider. (B) I haven't flown in years and recertifying in a motorglider makes for quick time building very cheaply. (C) After building my time back up, transitioning back to Private Pilot will be very quick, simple and, my favorite, CHEAP. Building the wings for the KR-1B is as simple as building a spare set of wings only longer. The plans and supplement for the -1B wings were cheap enough, too. To date, I have invested less than $3000 in my plane. Included was a ground looped KR-2 complete with HAPI engine and mount, Diehl gear, hydraulic brakes, flight and engine instruments, new canopy (still boxed), all the important hardware (hinges, control linkages, etc.), and various serviceable parts. (Cost: $1000 less the outer wings I sold for $150; Net $850). The KR-1 kit was purchased on eBay for $1550 as was working the Edo Aire 563A transceiver ($200). Various supplies (foam, fiberglass, epoxy, etc.) still keeps the total well under $3K. By the time I'm finished, I expect to have a total of around $5,000 invested for essentially two planes. So, why build the KR-1B? It's CHEAP and will allow me to own two separate planes in one! You're absolutely right when you say there will be a slew of motorgliders coming on the market in the $25,000 range but why build one of those when you can have a multi-purpose fun plane like the KR? I suspect for most builders, the vast majority of flying will be solo anyway. My 2 cents worth. Gene, Worland, Wyoming When you give a lesson in meanness to a critter or a person, don't be surprised if they learn their lesson. -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 07/27/04 17:48:53 To: KRnet Subject: @WL Re: KR> law of unitended consequences/Sport Pilot >Not even going to start the KRMotorglider thing as I sure there are >going to >be a ton of new motorglider designs hit the market Cost will still be a factor. Most of the new ones will be $25,000+ > but remember, sport pilot >also has a new of max 120 kts. and not just the stall. This allows for smaller VW engines? High lift, slow speed, less gas, and lower price. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:07:38 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Tech Counselors To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002d01c474cd$c486c1e0$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Gentlemen It would be wonderful to utilize such resources and is a great suggestion if you can get one to come out. My problem has not be accepting the idea of the inspections by them or a willingness to use them, the more the better. The problem is getting them to come out at all. As one netters stated the number of those that feel qualified to look at a wood and composite airplane must be small, and the same for DARs because I can't get either one to come out. This is like wearing a karate uniform and walking down an alley where people normally get mugged, but noone will come out and "play". It is a sad state of affairs and I guess most is caused by some people being litigation happy, always wanting to blame someone else for what goes wrong. Well intentioned folks get hurt trying to help a builder with an inspection only to get sued by relatives who do not want to accept that their family member messed up. Oh well, good luck in your areas, mine is dry. Thank you KRNet and those that have helped beyond just commentary, you have been a God send. Now if I can just remember where I left my headset..... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:25:02 -0500 From: Bernard McLean Sr Subject: Re: KR> KR inspections To: KRnet Message-ID: <4107EF7E.3070808@northboone.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed I have kept fairly meticulous photo and written logs of all the construction steps to date but have been unsuccessful in locating an EAA Tech Counselor willing to inspect/sign off on any work done on my KR 2. I guess I'll keep plugging away doing the best I can and keeping the best records I can and wait for the "shoes to drop" See you at Mount Vernon. Bernie McLean Poplar Grove IL ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:29:43 EDT From: Boeing757mech1@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Tech Counselors To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <156.3ae53845.2e394a97@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 7/28/2004 11:06:32 AM US Mountain Standard Time, crainey1@cfl.rr.com writes: Well intentioned folks get hurt trying to help a builder with an inspection only to get sued by relatives who do not want to accept that their family member messed up. Only in America. Chris Theroux Gilbert, AZ ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 15:02:52 -0500 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: KR> KR inspections To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <014f01c474dd$dd511710$6601a8c0@CADENGINEERING> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The EAA Tech Counselor I had did not sign-off anything but suggested improvements, additions and corrections to what I was doing. I have a tendency to over build, make super strong and add to much weight. He made constructive suggestions and I took his advice. KRron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernard McLean Sr" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:25 PM Subject: Re: KR> KR inspections > I have kept fairly meticulous photo and written logs of all the > construction steps to date but have been unsuccessful in locating an > EAA Tech Counselor willing to inspect/sign off on any work done on my > KR 2. I guess I'll keep plugging away doing the best I can and keeping > the best records I can and wait for the "shoes to drop" See you at > Mount Vernon. Bernie McLean > Poplar Grove IL > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:17:25 -0400 From: "Jack Cooper" Subject: Re: KR> KR inspections To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <410-22004732820172531@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I have never had a Tech Counselor look at mine either but my son is a licensed A&P and looks it over every time he is here. Wonder if I should document that. He knows less than I about woodwork and composits. Jack Cooper > [Original Message] > From: Bernard McLean Sr > To: KRnet > Date: 7/28/2004 2:25:41 PM > Subject: Re: KR> KR inspections > > I have kept fairly meticulous photo and written logs of all the > construction steps to date but have been unsuccessful in locating an EAA > Tech Counselor willing to inspect/sign off on any work done on my KR 2. > I guess I'll keep plugging away doing the best I can and keeping the > best records I can and wait for the "shoes to drop" > See you at Mount Vernon. > Bernie McLean > Poplar Grove IL > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 50 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================