From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 64 Date: 8/8/2004 8:59:54 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Spar strength was Re: KR> KR2S Sport pilot eligible??? (Duncan) 2. family first (larry flesner) 3. Re: KR Sport pilot eligible??? (Allen Wiesner ) 4. Re: Spar strength was Re: KR> KR2S Sport pilot eligible??? (Wesley Scott) 5. Re: KR2S Stretch (Mark Langford) 6. RE: FAA (Brian Kraut) 7. How Many Days? (Mark Jones) 8. Re: KR Sport pilot eligible??? (David Mikesell) 9. First Flight N202RH (Rick Human) 10. Re: First Flight N202RH (larry flesner) 11. Re: First Flight N202RH (Mark Jones) 12. Static Vent, Cabin Heat, Fresh Air Duct, Cable installation (Dan Heath) 13. Re: First Flight N202RH (Dan Heath) 14. New BLOG/Parley Byington (Oscar Zuniga) 15. Parley Byington/New BLOG (Oscar Zuniga) 16. Re: KR Sport pilot eligible??? (ECLarsen81@aol.com) 17. Re: Type IV engine buildup (Scott Cable) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 07:41:53 +1200 From: Duncan Subject: Re: Spar strength was Re: KR> KR2S Sport pilot eligible??? To: Wesley Scott ,KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040809074002.045f32b8@styx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Wesley, Hi. +4/-2? My plans say +7/-7 @ 800lbs - does this compute to +4/-2 @ 1050lbs? Duncan ===================================== At 04:05 a.m. 9/08/2004, you wrote: >What g factor are you using for the analysis? RR used +4/-2 as the >design limit load factors (FAA requires an ultimate load of 1.5x the >limit load). At a gross weight of 1050 pounds, there is an approximate >margin of safety of 16% per Bill Marcy's analysis. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 16:40:10 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> family first To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040808164010.007c5e80@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Remember that the kr is a >hobby but your family is your live. >Parley Byington ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Parley, Good advise for any builder. That's one of the reasons my project took 13 years. There are other reasons too numerous to mention but that is the primary one. Will your family schedule permit you to attend the Gathering this year? Bring them along if necessary. Larry Flesner (married 36.5 years to the mother of my children) ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:57:59 -0400 From: "Allen Wiesner " Subject: Re: KR> KR Sport pilot eligible??? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <012101c47d92$c5db5740$0000a398@CPQ69645694259> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>Just like no sport pilot aircraft can have a in-flight adjustable prop >>or retractable gear (unless it is a amphibian) because it will allow >>it to go faster without airframe modifications or engine >>modifications. David Mikesell +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >My take on those two items is that they are more to eliminate >complexity than eliminate speed. Certified aircraft with the above >items help to put them in the "complex aircraft" category and require a >check ride and endorsement. The Leolhe 51, or however it is spelled, >has retractable gear and even with an in-flight adjustable prop I doubt >the Rotax would give it a speed to disqualify it from the sport pilot >class. Don't bet on it. The SPA rules state NO retractable gear and NO in-flight adjustable prop, No allowance for max. speeds below the limit. That's what's written and that's the way the FAA will enforce it, unless and until a revision goes thru or an Advisory Circular clarifies the rules. Allen G. Wiesner KR-2SS/TD S/N 1118 65 Franklin Street Ansonia, CT 06401-1240 (203) 732-0508 flashyal@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:03:05 -0500 From: "Wesley Scott" Subject: Re: Spar strength was Re: KR> KR2S Sport pilot eligible??? To: "KRnet" , "Duncan" Message-ID: <000801c47d93$7e4c2340$7ea70a04@pbrain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" my plans are dated Jan 1990 page 6 of the KR2 plans say "design stress loading is +/- 7 g's at 800 lbs gross" but the specifications on page 3 say the gross weight is 900 lbs. +/- 7 g @ 800 lbs is equiv to +/- 6.2 @ 900 or +/- 5.7 @ 980 or +/- 5.33 +@ 1050 But the KR2S uses a longer wing, which will create larger bending moments at the fuselage and wing attach fittings. The report titled "Structural Properties of the Rand-Robinson KR2S" prepared by Marcy Analytics Corporation states "For the KR-2S, the design ultimate load factor is 6.0, and by extension, the design limit load factor is 4.0." In a later section it pulls numbers from FAR 23, Appendix A for a V-n diagram that is where the -2 load factor is described. -- wesley scott kr2@spottedowl.biz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duncan" To: "Wesley Scott" ; "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:41 PM Subject: Re: Spar strength was Re: KR> KR2S Sport pilot eligible??? > Wesley, > Hi. +4/-2? My plans say +7/-7 @ 800lbs - does this compute to +4/-2 > @ 1050lbs? > > Duncan > ===================================== > At 04:05 a.m. 9/08/2004, you wrote: > > >What g factor are you using for the analysis? RR used +4/-2 as the design > >limit load factors (FAA requires an ultimate load of 1.5x the limit load). > >At a gross weight of 1050 pounds, there is an approximate margin of safety > >of 16% per Bill Marcy's analysis. > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 17:17:53 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> KR2S Stretch To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <032701c47d95$8cf45b40$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Larry wrote: > Mark can correct me if I'm wrong but when he said his is not stretched > forward of the spar, he started with the KR2S plans that did add some > length forward of the spar over a standard KR2. Yep, but he was asking for a KR2S that had been stretched 4" in front of the spar, not a KR2 that had been stretched 4" in front of the spar. Mine is a KR2S that hasn't been stretched at all in front of the spar, and it's just about right. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 18:21:33 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> FAA To: Cc: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have found that in working with the FAA, just as with the Coast Guard, American Bureau of shipping, and other regulatory agencies I work with at work, it is often imposible to get a good answer by just asking a question. They will almost always take the most conservative approach or not really answer your question at all. I have found it far better to research the rules then give them the answer that you think is correct and ask if they concur. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: jscott.pilot@juno.com [mailto:jscott.pilot@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 3:32 PM To: brian.kraut@engalt.com Subject: Re: KR> KR-2 (sort of) on e-bay On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:29:20 -0400 "Brian Kraut" writes: > I had to go back to a 5 hour flight test phase on my KR, but I just > gave the suggested area to the FSDO and they said O.K. It was > originally built near > Chicago somewhere and I am in Florida. Sounds like your FSDO just > didn't > know what they were doing. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > I can tell you that our FSDO is one of the worst for throwing up roadblocks and not working with the pilots, so unfrotunately, this isn't a surprise. That's essentially what we got, but it took about 5 months to get that out of the Albuquerque FSDO. Thanks for the additional input. ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:28:58 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> How Many Days? To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <00e101c47da7$dd01a720$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Just 46 till the 2004 Gathering and only 411 days till I fly my KR to the 2005 Gathering. Stephen,....keep smiling.. :-) Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 18:23:53 -0700 From: "David Mikesell" Subject: Re: KR> KR Sport pilot eligible??? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <005401c47daf$88a0b9c0$03fea8c0@davids> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Very true as the Oakland FAA GADO office explained, it will be enforced as written. NO means NO David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allen Wiesner " To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 2:57 PM Subject: Re: KR> KR Sport pilot eligible??? > >>Just like no sport pilot aircraft can have a in-flight adjustable > >>prop or > >>retractable gear (unless it is a amphibian) because it will allow it > >>to go > >>faster without airframe modifications or engine modifications. David > >>Mikesell > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >My take on those two items is that they are more to eliminate > >complexity than eliminate speed. Certified aircraft with the above > >items help to put them in the "complex aircraft" category and require > >a check ride and endorsement. The Leolhe 51, or however it is > >spelled, has retractable gear and even with an in-flight adjustable > >prop I doubt the Rotax would give it a speed to disqualify it from > >the sport pilot class. > > Don't bet on it. The SPA rules state NO retractable gear and NO > in-flight adjustable prop, No allowance for max. speeds below the > limit. That's what's written and that's the way the FAA will enforce > it, unless and until > a revision goes thru or an Advisory Circular clarifies the rules. > > Allen G. Wiesner KR-2SS/TD S/N 1118 > 65 Franklin Street > Ansonia, CT 06401-1240 > > (203) 732-0508 > > flashyal@usadatanet.net > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:41:08 -0500 From: "Rick Human" Subject: KR> First Flight N202RH To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001f01c47db1$f21ac2e0$b0c9dacf@desktop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yesterday 8/7/2004 KR-2 N202RH took flight for the first time. The flight was a short one but the pilot and the aircraft made a safe circuit of the field. So that's a success by anyone's measure. A hot engine necessitated the short flight but we'll fix that in good time. N202RH weights 683 lbs empty - has a Cont C-85 with a trike gear and was begun in Oct 1985. As was pointed out in earlier notes it does take time when it's a HOBBY project and as a result takes a back seat to everything else, job, family, friends, friends projects, etc. We will not make the gathering but maybe next year - hope to have pictures later. (unfortunately the photographer (me) was out of place for the take off - so a enactment of the first flight will have to be staged ! :-) PS: no PIO's encountered but the test pilot did think that the rudder is overly powerful. Rick Human Houston, Texas ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:46:13 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> First Flight N202RH To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040808204613.00827280@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >PS: no PIO's encountered but the test pilot did think that the rudder >is overly powerful. Rick Human +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Rick, Congratulations Rick! You have a lot of fun flights ahead! You (he/she ,the test pilot) will find the KR requires little if any rudder for most normal flights. I often find that just the uneven pressure of my feet resting on the rudders will throw the ball off center. It only takes a flight or two to get used to. Have fun........ Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:56:23 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> First Flight N202RH To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00f101c47db4$12f13740$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Congratulations Rick. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Human" To: "KRnet" Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:41 PM Subject: KR> First Flight N202RH > Yesterday 8/7/2004 KR-2 N202RH took flight for the first time. The > flight was a short one but the pilot and the aircraft made a safe > circuit of the field. So that's a success by anyone's measure. A hot > engine necessitated the short flight but we'll fix that in good time. > > N202RH weights 683 lbs empty - has a Cont C-85 with a trike gear and > was begun in Oct 1985. > > As was pointed out in earlier notes it does take time when it's a > HOBBY project and as a result takes a back seat to everything else, > job, family, friends, friends projects, etc. > > We will not make the gathering but maybe next year - hope to have > pictures later. (unfortunately the photographer (me) was out of place > for the take off - so a enactment of the first flight will have to be > staged ! :-) > > PS: no PIO's encountered but the test pilot did think that the rudder > is overly powerful. > > Rick Human > Houston, Texas > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:57:22 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Static Vent, Cabin Heat, Fresh Air Duct, Cable installation To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4116DA02.000005.00204@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have been spending the last few weeks working inside the cockpit. When you don't have the whole area exposed like Mark L. does, this is the easiest way I could come up with to be able to get all this work done. The only problem is, you have to think backwards and upside down. Click on the link below and click on the pics. http://kr-builder.org/CockpitWork/index.html "There is a time for building and a time for GOING TO THE GATHERING, and the time for building has long since expired." See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering http://KRGathering.org See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:00:36 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> First Flight N202RH To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4116DAC4.000007.00204@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Congratulations Rick. I found that same thing about the rudder and was quite surprised. You just have to find a way to keep your feet off of them because you really don't need rudder input during normal flight. "There is a time for building and a time for GOING TO THE GATHERING, and the time for building has long since expired." See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering http://KRGathering.org See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 21:05:23 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> New BLOG/Parley Byington To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Parley Byington (married 31 years on Aug 11 ) >KR-2 N54PB (first flown Dec.7, 1991) >Henderson NV >parley@anv.net Whoa! Parley Byington? Are you the guy who built the really nifty, grey KR with RAF markings? Very clean airplane! I really liked the trim wheel idea, and have copied it (peanut butter jar lid)... I've also been through Henderson, NV. I was married on July 7, 1969 and have you beat by 4 years... Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 21:07:50 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> Parley Byington/New BLOG To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Whoops! Sorry, netters... I'm into my 3rd (or 4th?) glass of muscle relaxant and shouldn't have sent that last post to 450 KRNet list members... but if Parley owns the really clean KR2 with RAF markings, it's worth a second, and third look. Very clean example of the marque. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 23:53:29 EDT From: ECLarsen81@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> KR Sport pilot eligible??? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <6b.304d4663.2e484f39@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" The EAA is already compiling a list of aircraft that are eliable and can be found at this link http://www.sportpilot.org/lsa/homebuilt_list.html which by the way lists the Loehle 5151with FIXED gear only. There is also a listing for certified aircraft. my 2 cents Ed Larsen Ypsi, MI ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 20:56:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> Type IV engine buildup To: KRnet Message-ID: <20040809035659.25770.qmail@web53002.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lee (Orma), I was wondering about your progress ( or lack thereof). I'm really interested in seeing your KR at the gathering (maybe getting a ride?). PLease let me know if there is anything that I can do to help.... Scott Orma wrote: Hello Net well over two months have passed since I last reported on the progress of my engine buildup. As this is my KR's 20 birthday summer, making it to the gathering is #1 priority, but only we can make it there safely. Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 64 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================