From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 7 Date: 7/3/2004 1:26:40 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. unscrebe (joe_beyer@netzero.net) 2. RE: Drilling Holes in Spars (Stephen Jacobs) 3. list members dropped, or can't post! (Stephen Jacobs) 4. Belts (Colin & Bev Rainey) 5. Vne (Colin & Bev Rainey) 6. RE: Drilling Holes in Spars (Donald Reid) 7. RE: Drilling Holes in Spars (Stephen Jacobs) 8. Re: Drilling Holes in Spars (Mark Langford) 9. Re: Drilling Holes in Spars - stress riser? (Steve and Lori McGee) 10. want to unsubscribe? (Mark Langford) 11. Re: want to unsubscribe? (larry flesner) 12. Vne (Larry A Capps) 13. Re: want to unsubscribe? (idrawtobuild@ncinternet.net) 14. Re: "DOG-CUSSING" (Dick Goff) 15. Vne speed (larry flesner) 16. mailing list options (Wesley Scott) 17. Re: want to unsubscribe? (Mark Langford) 18. Tank leak (Eric Evezard) 19. Re: outboard spar taper (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 20. Re: want to unsubscribe? (JEHayward@aol.com) 21. Re: Cockpit fresh air supply (Dan Heath) 22. Re: Cockpit fresh air supply (Mark Langford) 23. Re: outboard spar taper (Robert L. Stone) 24. Re: Yahoo Groups (David Mullins) 25. RE: Drilling Holes in Spars - stress riser? (Stephen Jacobs) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 05:18:06 GMT From: "joe_beyer@netzero.net" Subject: KR> unscrebe To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20040702.221856.15229.187374@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:57:27 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Drilling Holes in Spars To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000201c460cb$055bb3e0$9d64a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The shear load is not affected. It is always the total weight that is being carried by the spar. Increasing the spacing between the spar caps does not affect the shear. +++++++++++++++++ Thank you for that, advice on this level is very much appreciated. I Sometimes I see the neutral axis far away from the forces and thus the plane where loads are least - then again, logic (mine) suggests that loads must be the highest opposite forces along the NA. Where we need a 2 to 3" hole through the spar in the web surfaces (for control runs etc.) is it better to avoid the centre of the web? I am tempted to fit a filler block (extra pillar) between the ply webs in the area of the hole, but worry about creating a stress break (riser?). Pending a better solution, my intention is to place a reinforcing ring of the same ply around the hole - maybe change the grain direction. Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:57:27 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: KR> list members dropped, or can't post! To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000301c460cb$08d83070$9d64a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Everything seems to be fine now - thank you. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 06:19:52 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Belts To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <014501c460e7$480b79c0$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian and netters Another netter wisely posted for all a while back that automotive pushbutton latches for the belts are NOT FAA approved. I would not use them. I purchased 2 brand new 4 point belts from Summit Racing Supply that use the exact same flip latch style buckle as the aircraft that are certified that I fly while teaching. These are idiot proof, and just a few minutes of becoming acquainted is all one needs to get used to them. And they are FAA approved for use in aircraft. Best part was that they are only $69 each with mounting brackets, plenty of web, and shoulder belts sewn into the lap belt for ease of use. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 06:30:00 -0400 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" Subject: KR> Vne To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <018201c460e8$b1f74cf0$34442141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I would also add that Vne is normally expressed as the speed at which when the airspeed is increased beyond that speed , that the airfoil has the capability to produce loads that exceed the aircraft's ability to with stand. Simply stated, the wing can generate more lift than the spars can hold. This is the largest danger to GA aircraft. Where you see these pilots typically flying faster is up high in smooth air where they can get away with high airspeeds, and the true airspeed has increased anyway. I would not recommend to anyone to fly those speeds down below say 4000 feet, unless you are VERY light. Just my opinion... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 08:22:54 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: RE: KR> Drilling Holes in Spars To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20040703081813.01c6f850@pop.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:57 AM 7/3/2004, you wrote: >The shear load is not affected. It is always the total weight that is >being carried by the spar. Increasing the spacing between the spar >caps does not affect the shear. > >I Sometimes I see the neutral axis far away from the forces and thus >the plane where loads are least - then again, logic (mine) suggests >that loads must be the highest opposite forces along the NA. This is not correct. The neutral axis is very near the center of the spar and it is the best place to put holes. >Where we need a 2 to 3" hole through the spar in the web surfaces (for >control runs etc.) is it better to avoid the centre of the web? I am >tempted to fit a filler block (extra pillar) between the ply webs in >the area of the hole, but worry about creating a stress break (riser?). > >Pending a better solution, my intention is to place a reinforcing ring >of the same ply around the hole - maybe change the grain direction. A reinforcing ring is an excellent idea. I used them in the few places that I had to pierce the shear web. You should feather the edge (make it thinner) at the outer edges of the ring. This will prevent creating what is called a stress riser. Don Reid - donreid "at" erols.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://www.eaa231.org/AeroFoil/index.htm KR2XL construction: http://users.erols.com/donreid/kr_page.htm Aviation Surplus: http://users.erols.com/donreid/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 15:12:27 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Drilling Holes in Spars To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c460ff$671ac0b0$6364a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is not correct. The neutral axis is very near the center of the spar and it is the best place to put holes. A reinforcing ring is an excellent idea......... You should feather the edge ....... prevent creating what is called a stress riser. +++++++++++++++++++ Thank you Donald - much obliged Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:39:01 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Drilling Holes in Spars To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <016001c46103$1bd92bb0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" It LOOKED like Steve Jacobs wrote: > to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net. > This is the ONLY way to unsubscribe! But I actually stuck that on the top of ALL KRnet messages, but forgot to put a space or a line under it to delineate it, so I'm the jerk, not him. I've had a few hours to cool down now, so I'll just take it off. I still really haven't cooled off enough to discuss it further though... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:41:00 -0500 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" Subject: Re: KR> Drilling Holes in Spars - stress riser? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002501c46103$60c73280$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > "A reinforcing ring is an excellent idea......... You should feather > the edge ....... prevent creating what is called a stress riser. " I can see where this would be needed in what I would assume would be the working part of the wing ( mostly outside the WAFs ). But not inside the fuse where we would be drilling holes for routing to the tail, or where I feel most changes should take place in jumping to the other side of the spar with controls or whatever. I would think that where the spar joins the fuse, there is one hell of a stress riser! Steve McGee EndeavoWI KR2SW ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:47:10 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> want to unsubscribe? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <016a01c46104$3d546100$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" A bug in the Mailman software at mylist.net deleted the entire subscriber list on July 1st, so the whole list died. The newest backup they had was FOUR MONTHS old, so now new subscribers have evaporated, and people that had unsubscribed have been involuntarily re-subscribed. And all settings and passwords have reverted to what they were four months ago. Needless to say, everybody's hacked off at ME, so if you want to UNSUBSCRIBE from the list, send a message (blank or otherwise) to krnet-leave@mylist.net . It really doesn't help to email the list administrator (ME) and dog-cuss me! Anybody that knows of a more reliable list that doesn't blast you with advertising or sell your email address to spammers is welcome to throw it out to the group for discussion. I've just about had enough of this... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 09:50:12 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: Re: KR> want to unsubscribe? To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040703095012.008c8d50@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It really >doesn't help to email the list administrator (ME) and dog-cuss me! > I've just about had enough of this... >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Would those netters that have been "dog-cussing" Mark either back off or delete themselves from the list, please. We don't thank Mark enough for all the effort he puts in to keep the list going. For him to have to take a mean mouthing for things beyond his control is asking too much. Thanks, Mark......... Maybe a good solution for you would be for you to announce to all that you intend to forward the "private dog-cussing" e-mails to the net for all netters to see who these "dog-cussers" are. Then maybe the rest of us can get in on some "dog-cussing" ourselves. I hauled two loads of skydivers yesterday evening for a local festival and after many hours in the KR the C-182 seems to drive like a tank! I actually found myself using both hands on the yoke to flare and wondering what was wrong! :-) If the weather clears I'll take a flight in the KR today and get my head back on straight. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 10:16:19 -0500 From: "Larry A Capps" Subject: KR> Vne To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000201c46110$b172ac70$0500a8c0@schpankme> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The maximum velocities allowed are Va in turbulent air and Vne in smooth air conditions. Your aircrafts Vne is an indicator of speed, in smooth air conditions, where permanent distortion or control flutter may occur. As stated, you can fly at Vne in safety, but you cannot expect to make sudden maneuvers at this speed or fly in turbulence without possible damage. Larry A Capps Naperville, IL "Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." - Groucho Marx -----Original Message----- I would add that Vne is normally expressed as that speed, the wing can generate more lift than the spars can hold. ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 08:38:57 -0700 From: Subject: Re: KR> want to unsubscribe? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000401c46113$dc3db140$0f00a8c0@greg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Larry! I thank your idea of placing all the dogma(ers) on the net os the rest of us can see just who they are is a wonderful idea. I would like to know who seems to think their xoxoxoxoxox doesn't sink. If everything in this world would go without a hitch. There wouldn't be any plane crashs (Oh sure) or items not fitting as they should. It's evident to me that any one with critisizum simply understand the facts or technology. It just is not a perfect world. Mark: Your work and dedication to the net in the interest to pass on information to those who can use it is outstanding. I've been on this net for over 6 years to this point and I find that your work is simply the best. And I also know when someone of us makes a half baked complaint, it's just that. Not enough thought or understanding to the words used. Thanks Mark, and I think that includes most of us. Greg Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 7:50 AM Subject: Re: KR> want to unsubscribe? > It really > >doesn't help to email the list administrator (ME) and dog-cuss me! > > > I've just about had enough of this... > >Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Would those netters that have been "dog-cussing" Mark either back off > or delete themselves from the list, please. We don't thank Mark > enough for all the effort he puts in to keep the list going. For him > to have to take > a mean mouthing for things beyond his control is asking too much. > > Thanks, Mark......... Maybe a good solution for you would be for you > to announce to all that you intend to forward the "private > dog-cussing" e-mails to the net for all netters to see who these > "dog-cussers" are. Then maybe the rest of us can get in on some > "dog-cussing" ourselves. > > I hauled two loads of skydivers yesterday evening for a local festival > and after many hours in the KR the C-182 seems to drive like a tank! I > actually found myself using both hands on the yoke to flare and > wondering what was wrong! :-) If the weather clears I'll take a > flight in the KR today and get my head back on straight. > > Larry Flesner > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 10:44:31 -0500 From: dcgoff@webtv.net (Dick Goff) Subject: KR> Re: "DOG-CUSSING" To: krnet@mylist.net (KRnet) Message-ID: <24583-40E6D45F-6917@storefull-3313.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Hi Mark, I want to add my "THANK YOU" for a job well done!! It is really unfortunate that some KR Builders will not appreciate the time and effort put forth, by you. They want to complain, but, I'll bet they wouldn't volunteer to run it. Once again, Thank You Mark. Dick Goff ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 10:45:10 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Vne speed To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040703104510.008cde90@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" At 10:16 AM 7/3/04 -0500, you wrote: >The maximum velocities allowed are Va in turbulent air and Vne in >smooth air conditions. Your aircrafts Vne is an indicator of speed, in >smooth air conditions, where permanent distortion or control flutter >may occur. As stated, you can fly at Vne in safety, but you cannot >expect to make sudden maneuvers at this speed or fly in turbulence >without possible damage. Larry A Capps +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Here is another "twist" to add to the Vne topic. I got it for the following web page: http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule2.html#vspeed With a 3 degree washout on a plans-built KR this twisting motion could be significant and make it unsafe to exceed Vne even in smooth air. I've never pushed my KR beyond 180 mph indicated and probably won't as mine is rather heavy. I'll use the fact that I have tanks built in to the outer wing panels, from root to tip, that will act to stiffen the wing as a safety factor. Larry Flesner • Vne – never exceed speed. The speed which must not be exceeded in a glide or dive or other manoeuvre in smooth air. The red line at the top end of the ASI yellow arc, usually 90% of the 'design diving speed' Vd which latter is usually 1.4 times Vno. Vne is set at 90% of Vd to provide a flutter margin. Exceeding Vd is the realm of the test pilot – who always wears a parachute! There is another speed which, hopefully, is greater than Vd; this is the comfortably named 'wing divergence speed' where the extreme rearward position of the centre of pressure at very low (below zero) angles of attack prompts a twisting action on the wing structure causing them to separate from the airframe. º Vno – maximum structural cruise speed. The top end of the ASI green arc. When cruising at, and below, Vno the aircraft should not be damaged by a 30 feet/second vertical gust, which is in the top end of the moderate turbulence scale of 20 – 35 feet/second vertical gusts. (Notwithstanding that, when moderate turbulence is encountered airspeed should be reduced to Va.) Flight above Vno should only be conducted cautiously and in smooth air. Vno must be greater than, or at least equal to, Vc. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:38:39 -0500 From: "Wesley Scott" Subject: KR> mailing list options To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004f01c4611c$33b44fd0$a62e0704@pbrain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Mark, Have you thought about moving the web site to a server that includes a mailing list as part of the hosting package? Of course, one of the disadvantages is you would now be responsible for managing the list which will probably involve more "dog-cussing." Based on WHOIS results it looks like krnet.org is hosted at hsweb.net, which does not include a mailing list in the package (and for those interested, costs either $20 or $60 per month for 2GB or 4GB of data transfer). lunarpages.com costs as little as $7.95/mo for 40GB/mo and includes one mailing list. (Disclaimer: I have a web page hosted at lunarpages.com) I haven't actually used the mailing list. -- wesley scott kr2@spottedowl.biz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 8:47 AM Subject: KR> want to unsubscribe? > > Anybody that knows of a more reliable list that doesn't blast you with > advertising or sell your email address to spammers is welcome to throw > it out to the group for discussion. I've just about had enough of > this... > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:55:19 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> want to unsubscribe? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01e901c4611e$8634fff0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >They want to complain, but, I'll bet they wouldn't volunteer to run it. That thought's occured to me, I assure you, but I may be too much of a control freak to hand it over to anybody. It turns out that the subscriber list isn't what was four months old, it's the subscribers' settings that's four months old, so it's not as bad as I thought. The nastygram that I got from one guy must have been a virus spoofing the KRnet admin (somebody on KRnet digest has a virus, and it's spewing forth junkmail "from" the KRnet admin"). So it turns out that he's not even on the list, and is hacked off that "I" subscribed him and am now spamming him with viruses. Like you say, a giant misunderstanding, with me the victim. I'm going to try to take a chill pill and get back to KR work. Ameet Savant is checking into the Yahoo lists. That might make a good "secondary" list where folks can post pictures and stuff like that. If it works out OK, maybe we can migrate there. I just don't want anybody to start getting spam because of it, but our presence on escribe was just as bad, so I don't know why I worry about that. Yahoo supposedly "hides" our email addresses anyway. We may just have to try it (in parallel) and see how it works. Having just read Wesley's comments, hiwaay.net just started list services a while back, so that's an option, but I'm already using about 350 meg of disk space, so I'd have to open another account, but that's a possibility. I'll think on it, and am open to suggestions still. I have a Starduster appointment at noon, so that'll really help my outlook. I've gotten to where I don't think anybody's going to die when I land it now. Thanks for the kind words... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:07:06 +0200 From: "Eric Evezard" Subject: KR> Tank leak To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001701c4611f$c70b3f20$28ce07c4@r5c9m8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Stephen J.,my header tank,on introducing auto fuel,developed a fuel sweat and very quickly leaked,and destroyed the foam.I had to carefully excise the tank without doing any damage.I then built another tank,no foam which gave me an extra inch all round plus extra here and there.This doubled the capacity to 17 galls.I could not believe my math.at first.This time I used an Acid Resistant polyester resin and not the epoxy resin I used previously.I was led to believe that the alcohol in the fuel affected the epoxy resin.I have had no trouble since with auto fuel or avgas.I have not used my wing tanks,and put a question out on KR net but only got one reply ,rather discouraging,as it was claimed that sloshing compound would block fuel lines.filters and pumps.I wondered how it could stay on the market all this time.My outer wings only weigh 40 lbs each and it would not be difficult to use sloshing compound.The acid resistant polyester seems popular in the chemical and marine industries and is easily obtainable in South Africa.Hope this info. will answer your question Stephen. Best Regards, Eric Evezard, S.Africa ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 18:13:04 -0400 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> outboard spar taper To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20040703.130131.2876.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Vacuum the sanded portion, Virg On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 14:58:26 -0500 "Pat Driscoll" writes: > Stephen' > The problem with sanding is that the wood dust gets into the > grain and the glue sticks to the dust more so than the hard wood. > This is more important on end grain gluing than on a flat spar > length. > Pat Driscoll > patrick36@usfamily.net > Saint Paul, MN > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From > $8.99/mo! ------ > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 13:24:07 EDT From: JEHayward@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> want to unsubscribe? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1cf.250c1590.2e1845b7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" In a message dated 7/3/04 9:39:31 AM Mountain Daylight Time, idrawtobuild@ncinternet.net writes: << Mark: Your work and dedication to the net in the interest to pass on information to those who can use it is outstanding. I've been on this net for over 6 years to this point and I find that your work is simply the best. >> My kudos to you as well, Mark. Even tho my -2 has been on a back burner since building my Challenger, I still file away informative posts for future use. I've always found you to be most accomodating for anyone needing information and *certainly* laud you for your efforts at keeping this list running as smoothly as it does. I know it takes a lot of "backstage" effort at times that's not seen or known by most of us. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOU DO!!!!! Jim Hayward Rapid City, SD ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 13:28:30 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Cockpit fresh air supply To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <40E6ECBE.000005.02716@COMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, I guess I will reply to myself. I think you could put a NACA duct on the side of the fuselage up near the firewall and run a hose to the instrument panel were you would put those neat little thingys, or it might be better to bring the air in from the cowling and route through the firewall. Although, there may really be a better thingy than those thingys, but I am not really sure what it might be. And going through the firewall has it's advantages and disadvantages, but I really don't know what those might be as I have never done that before. Well I know one thing, putting a NACA scoop on the pilot end of the fuselage doesn't work, so I guess you should not do that. And if that does not clear it up, just let me know and I will explain it another way. "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 07/02/04 18:32:13 To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Cockpit fresh air supply No, not hot air, I have plenty of that. How are you, who have gotten to that point, doing your fresh air supply for the cockpit. I was going to use snap vents in the side of the fuselage, but, have decided that the uncovered part of the hole is too large. I am thinking of those little swivel things like they have on the airliners or something like that. I am interested in everything from the intake to the outlet. Thanks in advance. "There is a time for building and a time for flying, and the time for building has long since expired." See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:44:59 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Cockpit fresh air supply To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <024201c46125$764a94e0$1202a8c0@basement> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dan, I'll throw two potential choices out there. One is the neat way that Jim Hill did his. He put a screened inlet in his wing root for the intake, and ran a scat hose into the cockpit. He discovered that it sucked in oil fumes from the engine , so he moved them further outboard, so they need to be outside the prop arc. But you'd definitely get some air from something like this (see http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/jhill.html , bottom photo). No doubt they don't need to be this big, and they will kill some lift, but they'd work! The other way is to install Cessna wing root vents (the sliding cans) into the floor, so that air blows up between your legs (out of the exhaust stream, obviously). This works great too and you can change the direction of the flow to point away from you if it's too direct, and is shown in the sixth photo from the top. I think what I'm going to do is take outside air into a duct at one of the two cowling inlets next to the spinner (which are too big anyway) and duct it to a flapper valve mounted on the firewall (which is already installed), and will eventually put an outside/heated air mixer and exhaust stove on it for wintertime. My cowling is so smooth that I don't want to stick anything extra on it other than the inlets, so snagging air at the inlet will keep it clean. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 12:58:34 -0500 (Central Standard Time) From: "Robert L. Stone" Subject: Re: KR> outboard spar taper To: Message-ID: <40E6F3CA.000006.02080@YOUR-AT5QGAAC3Z> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If you have a compressor, blow the hell out of the sanded surface and that should remove any lose particles. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com -------Original Message------- From: KRnet Date: 07/03/04 12:02:30 To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR> outboard spar taper Vacuum the sanded portion, Virg On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 14:58:26 -0500 "Pat Driscoll" writes: > Stephen' > The problem with sanding is that the wood dust gets into the > grain and the glue sticks to the dust more so than the hard wood. > This is more important on end grain gluing than on a flat spar > length. > Pat Driscoll > patrick36@usfamily.net > Saint Paul, MN > > > ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From > $8.99/mo! ------ > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 16:16:18 -0400 From: David Mullins Subject: Re: KR>Yahoo Groups To: KRnet Message-ID: <40E71412.3020904@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mark, About Yahoo groups. I was on a list there for years that one day just disappeared without warning. The Group didn't break any of Yahoos rules. We think it was at the government's request because the group was about income taxes. The state versions of the national list were also shut down by Yahoo. We started the group up again and were shut down a second time within two days. The group had to host the list offshore to keep our so called "freedom of speech" alive. It is not because the information we exchange is wrong or illegal, It is because the government does not want us spreading the the word that there is no liability for income taxes. Everything we post can be traced to USC Title 26, Supreme Court Decisions, or US District Court Decisions. It's all about the Law. Dave Mullins Nashua, New Hampshire http://www.N323XL.iwarp.com Mark Langford wrote: >Ameet Savant is checking into the Yahoo lists. That might make a good >"secondary" list where folks can post pictures and stuff like that. If >it works out OK, maybe we can migrate there. > > ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:24:41 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Drilling Holes in Spars - stress riser? To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000501c4613b$c8fc5000$c764a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I can see where this would be needed in what I would assume would be the working part of the wing ( mostly outside the WAFs ). +++++++++++++++++++++++++ In the interest of us non-structural types getting the facts straight and not breaking our necks: I would have thought that the further outboard we go, the lower the bending loads on the spar - thus the lower all the stresses (compression, tensile and shear). Is that not why the spar can be tapered? Surely the point of max stress for any beam or truss is point where the load works through the longest moment arm - in our case, right in the centre of the airplane (for spars). I can see that the fuselage structure may have a minor influence on the spar stress analysis but I figured the fuselage is not contributing anything meaningful, it is designed for structural integrity in its own rights (mainly for/aft axis) with the gussets and doublers in the spar /fuselage area being there to keep the fuselage attached to the wing. If anything, the spar is a significant contributor to the fuselage strength. Sorry to keep tugging at this one, but it is important in my application. I want to put the elevator push-rod through the rear spar and the rudder cables down the centre through both spars. That way all the controls go down the middle, the antenna (RF) leads all go down one side (over the spars) and the electrical power supply wires have max separation by going aft way over on the other side. Hopefully that will keep the "noise" from strobes /beacons /pumps away from the antenna leads. The input from Donald R has me convinced that I will be Ok with a small hole in the centre of the front spar (Just enough for two rudder cables); plus a hole through the rear spar (enough for two cables and the push rod) both holes with tapered (feathered) reinforcing rings both sides of each spar. Take care Steve J ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 346, Issue 7 ************************************* ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================