From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 274, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Information (rwmoore) 2. Re: Information (Scott Cable) 3. Rotating equipment balancing (Ron Eason) 4. Re: Information (Dan Heath) 5. Re: Tempering 4130 (Steve and Lori McGee) 6. RE: N122B for sale (Jim Faughn) 7. Question for the mathmatically superior. (Steve and Lori McGee) 8. Fw: Question for the mathmatically superior. (Steve and Lori McGee) 9. Re: Fw: Question for the mathmatically superior. (Steve and Lori McGee) 10. Re: Remember this? No emotion, just the facts....Engineering Disipline (Scott Cable) 11. Re: Fw: Question for the mathmatically superior. (Scott Cable) 12. RE: Re: Remember this? No emotion, just the facts....EngineeringDisipline (Dana Overall) 13. spar question (larry flesner) 14. Re: spar question (larry flesner) 15. Re: Question for the mathmatically superior. (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 16. KR-2S & 150 hp Franklin : These 7 things (Scott Cable) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2004 15:12:06 -0500 From: rwmoore To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Information Message-ID: <3FFC6815.6543E0F5@alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Last night I sent several photos to this site, the text came up but no photos. How do I get photos to appear? Do I send photos to you? R. W. Moore ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 12:26:51 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Information Message-ID: <20040107202651.84850.qmail@web40804.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3FFC6815.6543E0F5@alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 R.W. Moore: Please click on the KRnet list details below every posting and pay particular attention to item 7): I've partially copied most of the pertinent info: 7) Don't send enclosed files directly to the list. Either post it to a web site or get someone else to post it so others can see if they want, but don't have to if they don't. Attach the photos on a website, and then post the website address to the group, is how you "get photos to appear." --- rwmoore wrote: > Last night I sent several photos to this site, the > text came up but no > photos. How do I get photos to appear? > Do I send photos to you? > R. W. Moore ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 15:27:23 -0600 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Rotating equipment balancing Message-ID: <003001c3d565$0a292e30$6501a8c0@Administration> References: <3FFC6815.6543E0F5@alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Friends, FYI, I just recieved my crankshaft-flywheel-prophub assembly along with new pistons and Hapi connecting rods from the machine shop, all balanced to within 1/2 gram. My pistons and connecting rods are now interchangable a can be assembled in any order without affecting dynamic balancing. Computerized spin balancing machines were used, the same ones used on draster engines for competion builds. The most unbalanced parts was the four connecting rods, they were major unbalanced [ they waid about the same, but the ends were unbalanced]. Grinding for balance was very noticable. Now each rod is within 1/2 gram [both ends]. Factory new aluminum 94mm J E Racing new piston assemblies [rings,pins and pistons] were within 1 1/2 grams by the factory, they are now within 1/2gram. The crank and connection rods assembly engine componets were from a new Hapi engine. I guess they did'nt have the equipment then that we have today. My cost $100.00 for the lot. Recieved my Nickie aluminum Cylinders from LN Engineering. Turbo has been overhauled waiting for creamic coating. Waiting for my Autronic fuel injection and electronic ingnition system to arrive. Making progress with engine build. KRRon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:27:30 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Information Message-ID: <3FFC95E2.000001.03188@Computer> References: <3FFC6815.6543E0F5@alltel.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 R.W. Moore,=0D =0D Reply to my address below and I will discuss this with you off line. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From GAVINANDLOUISE@bigpond.com Wed Jan 07 16:35:05 2004 Received: from gizmo06bw.bigpond.com ([144.140.70.16]) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AeO8f-000OhL-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:35:05 -0800 Received: (qmail 15199 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2004 23:21:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bwmam08.bigpond.com) (144.135.24.91) by gizmo06bw.bigpond.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2004 23:21:12 -0000 Received: from bph-d2-p-77-94.tmns.net.au ([144.134.77.94]) by bwmam08.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_4_2 129/43910482) with SMTP id 43910482; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 10:24:32 +1000 Message-ID: <000b01c3d57e$c16c4640$5e4d8690@oemcomputer> From: "Gavin Donohoe" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:31:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Waf's X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Hi all, Just a few quick questions, I've just finished drilling my spars for the = WAF's and am not sure about painting them.=20 Should I glass blast them and paint or just leave them raw? I've had = them lying around in the workshop for a bout 6 months now with no signs = of surface rust !! does this 4130 steel rust or not? =20 If I do paint them am I right in assuming that I don't paint the side = that gets floxed to the spar ? On another subject, there is a guy here in Australia who is casting main = gear leg attach brackets and nose gear forks !! If I buy a fork from him = and fabricate a nose strut to suit the prop I'm going to use, what size = tube should I use for the nose strut? I assume it's about 1" dia but = what should the wall thickness be ( what is Dan Diehl using ?) =20 Thanks=20 Gavin=20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/04From GAVINANDLOUISE@bigpond.com Wed Jan 07 16:46:24 2004 Received: from gizmo10bw.bigpond.com ([144.140.70.20]) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AeOJb-000P14-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:46:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 15702 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2004 00:34:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO bwmam08.bigpond.com) (144.135.24.91) by gizmo10bw.bigpond.com with SMTP; 8 Jan 2004 00:34:58 -0000 Received: from bph-d2-p-77-94.tmns.net.au ([144.134.77.94]) by bwmam08.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_4_2 129/43929191) with SMTP id 43929191; Thu, 08 Jan 2004 10:35:51 +1000 Message-ID: <002601c3d580$55ce00c0$5e4d8690@oemcomputer> From: "Gavin Donohoe" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:42:45 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Tempering 4130 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Oh I forgot can anybody tell me how to or where to get the information = on tempering the 4130 tube for the nose strut I'm going to make? I've = spoken with the local spring works and they have all the computerised = gear, all they require from me is the tempering info. Thanks Gavin =20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/04From dean_cooper@bellsouth.net Wed Jan 07 16:47:21 2004 Received: from imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.73]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AeOKX-000P4a-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 07 Jan 2004 16:47:21 -0800 Received: from office ([66.157.215.47]) by imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with SMTP id <20040108003647.MBNM1944.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@office> for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:36:47 -0500 Message-ID: <01e901c3d57f$78b16380$0502a8c0@office> From: "Dean Cooper" To: "KRnet" References: <000b01c3d57e$c16c4640$5e4d8690@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: KR>Waf's Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:36:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Gavin wrote: >does this 4130 steel rust or not? >nose gear...I assume it's about 1" dia but what should the wall >thickness be ( what is Dan Diehl using ?) Gavin, 4130 will rust so it will need to be protected. The nose strut that Diehl sells is 4130 heat treated tubing. The drawings that I got with mine did not have the precise measurements, so I put a tape measure on it and it's 1.25" tubing and looks to be about 3/32 thick (0.09375"). I hope this helps. Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:54:37 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Tempering 4130 Message-ID: <00c601c3d581$fda3be10$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> References: <002601c3d580$55ce00c0$5e4d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Page 61 of the Wicks catalog. Also tons of info here. http://www.survivalistbooks.com/faq/metalfaq.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin Donohoe" To: "KR builders and pilots" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 6:42 PM Subject: KR>Tempering 4130 > Oh I forgot can anybody tell me how to or where to get the information > on tempering the 4130 tube for the nose strut I'm going to make? I've spoken with the local spring works and they have all the computerised gear, all they require from me is the tempering info. > > Thanks > > Gavin > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/04_______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 18:59:50 -0600 From: "Jim Faughn" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>N122B for sale Message-ID: <000001c3d582$b82fa1e0$85d85540@jfaughn> In-Reply-To: <010e01c3c0cf$182b25b0$57922ccf@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Bobby, Bobby, Bobby...... I just wonder, what are you thinking......... I hope things are going well for you. I've had the same thoughts sometimes but still I'm flying and to Oshkosh too. Let me know what's up.. Jim Jim Faughn 4323D Laclede Ave. St. Louis, MO 63108 (314)652-7659 Email - sub @ for "at" jfaughn "at" socket.net Web Site http://jfaughn.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Bobby Muse Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 10:44 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>N122B for sale BlankThis has been a hard decision, but I am going to sell my KR2. N122B has a tri-gear(Diehl), Revmaster 2100D engine, Serba prop, Terra Radio and VOR, Garmin Built-in Handheld GPS, single Gullwing canopy door, Dan Diehl's Wing Skins, 18.5 gal. removable Header Tank . N122B has always been hangered and is currently at the San Marcos Airport in San Marcos, TX. You can see several pictures of N122B on the internet by searching for "bobby muse's kr" as well as going to Mark Langford's site below. http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kbobbym.html N122B has not flown for the last three(3) years. I now consider N122B is a non-flying KR2 that is being sold for parts. I do not want the liability of selling a flying airplane. N122B will be removed from her sides and the buyer can haul away. Price is $17,500 as is. Please direct any inquires to bmuse@ev1.net Thank You, Bobby Muse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:46:40 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Subject: KR>Question for the mathmatically superior. Message-ID: <000d01c3d589$432f6040$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 This should trip some egos. OK here goes: 1- Main spars were built same length, not 1" shorter on front spar. ( = not by me, though may have been by design) So we are starting out = square. - remember the difference in wafs length off the outer spars. 2- Rear outer spars are built with thick blocks on each end to allow for = trimming, as they will most likely be too long. 3- Distance between main spars 21.38 distance to be between them at = wing tip 13.75 4- Main outer spar is 92.63 rear outer spar which can be trimmed is = 94.63 Question - How long does my rear spar have to be, what is the angle of = my rear spar, what are the angles to make the rear wafs to (#2 fitting = and #3 fitting), what dimension from the bend line are my end mount = holes? Whew - there now I owe a few beers to whoever can give me that. = Probably someone with a cad system handy? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:47:45 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Subject: KR>Fw: Question for the mathmatically superior. Message-ID: <002001c3d589$69ad3260$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 8 Sorry - forgot my sig line. Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve and Lori McGee=20 To: krnet@mylist.net=20 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:46 PM Subject: Question for the mathmatically superior. This should trip some egos. OK here goes: 1- Main spars were built same length, not 1" shorter on front spar. ( = not by me, though may have been by design) So we are starting out = square. - remember the difference in wafs length off the outer spars. 2- Rear outer spars are built with thick blocks on each end to allow for = trimming, as they will most likely be too long. 3- Distance between main spars 21.38 distance to be between them at = wing tip 13.75 4- Main outer spar is 92.63 rear outer spar which can be trimmed is = 94.63 Question - How long does my rear spar have to be, what is the angle of = my rear spar, what are the angles to make the rear wafs to (#2 fitting = and #3 fitting), what dimension from the bend line are my end mount = holes? Whew - there now I owe a few beers to whoever can give me that. = Probably someone with a cad system handy? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:55:22 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Fw: Question for the mathmatically superior. Message-ID: <003c01c3d58a$7a2760b0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> References: <002001c3d589$69ad3260$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Oh yes 1 more thing. The front outer spar narrows of course as it gets to the end. The width at the end is 1.19 so figure the centerline from that for the angle. I believe the rest is stock plans. Another beer I know, I know. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:47 PM Subject: KR>Fw: Question for the mathmatically superior. > Sorry - forgot my sig line. > > Steve McGee > Endeavor Wi. USA > Building a KR2S widened. > lmcgee@maqs.net > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve and Lori McGee > To: krnet@mylist.net > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:46 PM > Subject: Question for the mathmatically superior. > > > This should trip some egos. > > OK here goes: > > 1- Main spars were built same length, not 1" shorter on front spar. ( > not by me, though may have been by design) So we are starting out square. - remember the difference in wafs length off the outer spars. > > 2- Rear outer spars are built with thick blocks on each end to allow > for trimming, as they will most likely be too long. > > 3- Distance between main spars 21.38 distance to be between them at > wing tip 13.75 > > 4- Main outer spar is 92.63 rear outer spar which can be trimmed is > 94.63 > > Question - How long does my rear spar have to be, what is the angle of > my rear spar, what are the angles to make the rear wafs to (#2 fitting and #3 fitting), what dimension from the bend line are my end mount holes? > > Whew - there now I owe a few beers to whoever can give me that. > Probably someone with a cad system handy? > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:13:14 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: "B. Wunder" Cc: krnet@mylist.net, VairMech@aol.com Subject: KR>Re: Remember this? No emotion, just the facts....Engineering Disipline Message-ID: <20040108051314.4226.qmail@web40804.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <000901c3d594$a5c78ba0$6400a8c0@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 Might I heartily reply: YES! Bernie, I do remember you and that post last year. Touche'! I've also been very aware of that "blunder" I made a year ago...I also believe I ate my share of humble pie.... While I've been reflecting about that Dana thing, last night got me thinking about my about Panzera's Comments: Panzera's comments not only very offensive to me and others, but also served as a wake-up call: It really made me sit down and think this whole Corvair Engine thing out. In order for this engine to perform safely at the level that reflects the amount of effort involved, Is this engine cost and time effective? What am I gaining from using it? What are my goals for my aircraft? Well those questions caused me to look at my Mission Statement. It also caused me to re-look at my Pugh Analysis. These were documents that I created were what influenced the decision to utilize the Corvair to begin with. After reflecting on these 2 documents, the answer started to become clearer. I updated the Pugh analysis with more realistic weighted parameters, and it gave a completely different answer: I need to forget about building some techno hot-rod airplane, and build the airplane...With a airplane powerplant. So I'm happy (maybe even a little proud) that I stayed within my disipline, rolled up my sleeves and came to a better, more realistic decision. No emotion, just the facts.... That's what I was trained to do. I've focused and centered my decision not on Panzera's behavior, but on my aircraft parameters, goals and mission statement. I can say that it truly was a learning experience, and that I mostly enjoyed that experience. I'll still be around the KRNet, and will hopefully be able to contribute. However, I'm inclined (maybe even obligated) to adhere to my Engineering Disipline and use an aerospace powerplant. So I thank-you Bernie for bringing that to light, Maybe we all can learn a little something from this after all,-even under adversity. --- "B. Wunder" wrote: > Scott, > You probably don't remember me from the gathering > .....but I have been > reading the posts on the Corvair side of the net > when things went to pot by > someone making a crack or joke about something you > said. But what struck me > immediately was the message below because I was so > mad at you for making > Dana sign off the KRnet....but he came back and I > hope you do to...I think > that you have a lot of valuable input.....why folks > can't just stick to > posting subjects that are technical and not personal > comments is beyond > me...I have seen too many blowups on both the KRnet > and now the Corvair > net......and the real losers are us poor folks > trying to gain knowledge and > insight from those who have gone before us! > r/ > Bernie > KR2S Builder > Lexington Park, MD > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n2w6 > > > Date: May 7, 2003 5:24 AM > > From: Dana Overall > > Subject: Re: KR>liability Rant-See ya!! > > > >From: "Ron Eason" > >LET ELECT THIS GUY PRESIDENT! > > > >From: "Scott Cable" > It starts by allowing these sleeze-ball attorneys to advertise. > > I knew my intent to enlighten the list, as a whole, > potential liabilities > inherent with airplanes construction would turn on > my intentions to share > valuable information. I am too good a friend with > Mark Langford not to be > able to see his distrust, Mark and I will remain > friends, but it should have > stopped there. I did not call engineers > sleeze-balls or whatever profession > Mr. Cable is proud to claim as his stake in life. > ----------------------------------------------------- > ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2004 21:17:25 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Fw: Question for the mathmatically superior. Message-ID: <20040108051725.30035.qmail@web40808.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <003c01c3d58a$7a2760b0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11 Steve, I'm not at work, not at work, but if I get some free time this weekend (yeah right) I'll lay it out for you in UG. Can you wait till Sunday? --- Steve and Lori McGee wrote: > Oh yes 1 more thing. The front outer spar narrows > of course as it gets to > the end. The width at the end is 1.19 so figure > the centerline from that > for the angle. I believe the rest is stock plans. > Another beer I know, I > know. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve and Lori McGee" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:47 PM > Subject: KR>Fw: Question for the mathmatically > superior. > > > > Sorry - forgot my sig line. > > > > Steve McGee > > Endeavor Wi. USA > > Building a KR2S widened. > > lmcgee@maqs.net > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Steve and Lori McGee > > To: krnet@mylist.net > > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 7:46 PM > > Subject: Question for the mathmatically superior. > > > > > > This should trip some egos. > > > > OK here goes: > > > > 1- Main spars were built same length, not 1" > shorter on front spar. ( not > by me, though may have been by design) So we are > starting out square. - > remember the difference in wafs length off the outer > spars. > > > > 2- Rear outer spars are built with thick blocks on > each end to allow for > trimming, as they will most likely be too long. > > > > 3- Distance between main spars 21.38 distance to > be between them at wing > tip 13.75 > > > > 4- Main outer spar is 92.63 rear outer spar which > can be trimmed is 94.63 > > > > Question - How long does my rear spar have to be, > what is the angle of my > rear spar, what are the angles to make the rear > wafs to (#2 fitting and #3 > fitting), what dimension from the bend line are my > end mount holes? > > > > Whew - there now I owe a few beers to whoever can > give me that. Probably > someone with a cad system handy? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 07:10:34 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: RE: KR>Re: Remember this? No emotion, just the facts....EngineeringDisipline Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 >From: Scott Cable I can say that it truly was a learning experience, and that I mostly enjoyed that experience. I'll still be around the KRNet, and will hopefully be able to contribute. However, I'm inclined (maybe even obligated) to adhere to my Engineering Disipline and use an aerospace powerplant. So I thank-you Bernie for bringing that to light, Maybe we all can learn a little something from this after all,-even under adversity. Scott Cable >KR-2S # 735 >Wright City, MO >s2cable1@yahoo.com > I don't know where in the world this came from but, Scott you better hang around. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:23:59 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>spar question Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040108062359.007d2a50@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <000d01c3d589$432f6040$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 >Question - How long does my rear spar have to be, what is the angle of >my rear spar, what are the angles to make the rear wafs to (#2 fitting and #3 fitting), what dimension from the bend line are my end mount holes? Steve ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Steve, If I understand your question (I've read it at least four times) there is no math necessary. The angles for the rear attach fittings should be in the plans as well as the hole placement. The length of the rear outer spar can be determined by mounting the front outer spar and using a carpenter square across the end of the front outer spar to determine the length of the rear outer spar. The front spar should be 90 degrees to the centerline of the fuselage and the 36" rib at the end of the wing should be parallel to to the centerline. Even that is not critical as you can make adjustments when building the tip. Remember, these are "internal" structural components and have no effect on aerodynamics other than for proper alignment. The total length of the front spar, + or - an inch or two, is insignificant. Just build to the dimentions you have. Is this even close to what you're looking for? Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 06:44:45 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>spar question Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040108064445.007ac3d0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040108062359.007d2a50@pop.midwest.net> References: <000d01c3d589$432f6040$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 At 06:23 AM 1/8/04 -0600, you wrote: >>Question - How long does my rear spar have to be, what is the angle of >>my >rear spar, what are the angles to make the rear wafs to (#2 fitting >and #3 fitting), what dimension from the bend line are my end mount >holes? Steve >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ In my first post I ASSUMED you are building your wings from scratch. If you are using premolded wing skins the spars will have to match the skins (bonding lines) for proper bonding and shape. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:08:24 -0500 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY To: krnet@mylist.net Cc: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Question for the mathmatically superior. Message-ID: <20040108.102039.3896.3.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 Trim spars to plan length. Fasten outer spars to center spars( rear spars use only the AFT WAFs) Put outboard airfoil on the end of the foward spar and bring rear spar to the location indicated for the rear spar. You now have lengths and angles. Keep it simple, Virg On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 19:46:40 -0600 "Steve and Lori McGee" writes: > This should trip some egos. > > OK here goes: > > 1- Main spars were built same length, not 1" shorter on front spar. > ( not by me, though may have been by design) So we are starting > out square. - remember the difference in wafs length off the outer > spars. > > 2- Rear outer spars are built with thick blocks on each end to allow > for trimming, as they will most likely be too long. > > 3- Distance between main spars 21.38 distance to be between them at > wing tip 13.75 > > 4- Main outer spar is 92.63 rear outer spar which can be trimmed is > 94.63 > > Question - How long does my rear spar have to be, what is the angle > of my rear spar, what are the angles to make the rear wafs to (#2 > fitting and #3 fitting), what dimension from the bend line are my > end mount holes? > > Whew - there now I owe a few beers to whoever can give me that. > Probably someone with a cad system handy? > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:46:59 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>KR-2S & 150 hp Franklin : These 7 things Message-ID: <20040108184659.10777.qmail@web40808.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 KRNetters OK, hear me out on this one for one second: First remembering that the KR is one of the easiest aircraft to modify, and there has never been a KR crashed due to a structural failure. The KR has a double 5/8ths spruce Upper Longerons, a single 5/8 ths lower longeron. 3/32nd plywood outer skin, and 1/4 inch plywood firewall support structure. What if: 1.) Added an additional 5/8 piece to the upper Longerons 2.) Double the lower longerons aft to behind the rear spar and add 2 ea 5/8th intercostals from the firewall to the front spar. 3.) Instead of a 3/32 plywood floor between the firewall (under the rudder pedal support) and the front spar, use 1/4 inch 45 degree bias plywood. 4.) Add a 3/32 plywood inner skin from the firewall to the instrument panel, and 1/4 inch lower firewall gusset (like the existing upper gussett in the 2S plans) and a 1/4 inch plywood doubler on the inner forward and rear faces of the front spar. 5.) Add 18 inches to each wing to increase the wing span by 3 ft (from 23 to 26) (additional wing area to handle the increased engine weight) 6.) Increase the rudder / vertical stab area by 25% 7.) Increase the landing gear strut thickness by 20% By doing these 7 things, the KR-2S should be able to handle the additional loads imposed by a heavier, more powerful engine. Essentially, I've created a torque box on the belly, and fuselage sides. This should come close to doubling the load carrying ability of the fwd structure. The added structural weight would be less than 30 pounds. For a total increase in gross weight of 67 pounds (over a corvair or Subaru). I think a weight gain of 67 pounds, with the benefit of 30 more useable horsepower, and a gob more torque is reasonable. Another benefit is it's a aircraft engine. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 274, Issue 1 *************************************