From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:06 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 277, Issue 2 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: KR static system el cheapo----properly mount the static port system mentioned (Dan Heath) 2. KR static system el cheapo (larry flesner) 3. I'll snail mail out two cut, drilled and deburred pieces (Dan Heath) 4. Throttle quadrant (Serge F. Vidal) 5. Re: Throttle quadrant (Bob Stone) 6. KR static system el cheapo (Serge F. Vidal) 7. RE: Throttle quadrant (Serge F. Vidal) 8. Porsche Engine (Ron Freiberger) 9. Engines - Certified versus automotive conversions (Serge F. Vidal) 10. Turbo-Diesel kitplane (Serge F. Vidal) 11. Re: KR static system el cheapo (Dean Cooper) 12. Re: KR static system el cheapo (Kenneth B. Jones) 13. Re: KR static system el cheapo (gleone) 14. Re: Throttle quadrant (robert cooper) 15. Window under the passenger seat (Serge F. Vidal) 16. Re: Edo-Aire question for the net (gleone) 17. Re: Engines - Certified versus automotive conversions (larry flesner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:21:38 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>KR static system el cheapo----properly mount the static port system mentioned Message-ID: <40014DE2.000001.01868@Computer> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111070727.008105a0@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 RE: how would one properly mount the static port system mentioned, utiliz= ing an aluminum rivets through wood? =0D =0D Don't know for sure, but I ordered mine yesterday and I guess we will fin= d out. I rivet aluminum to plastic and wood all the time and have yet to se= e a problem with it. This pop rivet will be squeezed in place and I really do= n't see a problem with it. It certainly is much more simple than the way I di= d it on the first KR.=0D =0D Larry Capps, let me know if this comes through the net in better format. = I set it to plain text.=0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:16:18 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>KR static system el cheapo Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040111071618.00812df0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 , cut a piece of thin >alum. into a square of say, .5" as a backing plate. >Dana Overall +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ For builders with eyes like mine there is a . in front of that 5 for 1/2" , not 5" like I read the first two times and thought "man, way over-kill". :-) Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:24:53 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>I'll snail mail out two cut, drilled and deburred pieces Message-ID: <40014EA5.000003.01868@Computer> References: Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 3 Dana, =0D =0D I am not concerned about it. I am going to install it and if it ever loo= ks like there is a problem, I will fix it at that time.=0D =0D Thanks for the offer. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From bo124rs@hotmail.com Sun Jan 11 05:53:13 2004 Received: from bay13-f90.bay13.hotmail.com ([64.4.31.90] helo=hotmail.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Afg1h-0009m0-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:53:13 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:42:53 -0800 Received: from 205.188.209.74 by by13fd.bay13.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:42:52 GMT X-Originating-IP: [205.188.209.74] X-Originating-Email: [bo124rs@hotmail.com] X-Sender: bo124rs@hotmail.com From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Bcc: Subject: RE: KR>KR static system el cheapo Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:42:52 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jan 2004 13:42:53.0315 (UTC) FILETIME=[CFDD7D30:01C3D848] X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: >From Dana's description >it sounds like you "pull" the rivet but I wonder if you couldn't just >epoxy the rivet in the wood skin with a small amount of epoxy on the >exterior, under the head, and leave the shank intact. The hose >connection on the inside would also tend to hold it in place if the >rivet doesn't push out when installing the hose. > >Larry Flesner Larry, yes in my situation the rivet is pull until the mandrel snaps. The remaining mandrel is then tapped out to make a hollow shaft. I used a drill bit, they do come out after 5-6 taps. As for the KR, due to it's slightly thicker skin, floxing as you mentioned, just may be the way to go so as to leave more available shank length inside the fuselage. Another thought would be to flox the head, add a floxed backing plate and only pull the rivet partially then knock the mandrel out. Either/or I wouldn't think it would go anywhere. You will have, with very minimal time and money, a raised head static port giving you a consistant low pressure area above the static input providing reliable and consistant readings over a flush static port or interior static source. I emailed back and forth with a very qualified member of this list, issues surrounding static port positioning. The available information certainly supports a dual, raised head, external static source located aft of fuselage mid line. In addition, run the loop joining the two ports up along the top contour of your turtle deck. Somewhere above the static port install points, cut the line and install the Tee which supplies your instrument panel. This way, the lowest point is the actual static ports themselves allowing any wash water, rain or whatever to drain from the ports and not settle into the system. As for providing an emergency interior static source, there are several good ways to achieve this with this $18 system. The easiest I have seen, is to install a Tee on your intrument panel with the 90 degree nipple extending through the panel. Fabricate a piece or cork, rubber, anything that will plug the hole. If you do experience a plugged static system aft of the instrument Tee, just "pull the plug". The instrument readings will not be the same and will fluctuate as interior cockpit pressures change due to a multitude of interior air inputs and vac sources, but it will at least give you something to go by. Once again, an alternate static source for the cost of an additional Tee. Remember, you want the outside raised head static source, but an interior emergency source is just added insurance, at no weight penalty. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Find out everything you need to know about Las Vegas here for that getaway. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/vivalasvegas.armx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 00:34:17 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>Throttle quadrant Message-ID: <000001c3d84d$42f72380$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <20040109.085349.3440.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Since I am now many miles away from my KR2, I keep myself busy by making some parts that do not require many measurements. I started with redoing the throttle quadrant. Of course, you don't need a throttle quadrant if you are happy with a push-pull, vernier type throttle, but if, like me, you like to fly "HOTAS" (Hands on Throttle and Stick, another militaruy acronym), fighter style, a quadrant is not only nice to have but also fairly easy to make. Today, ZS-WEC (that's my KR2) just has a boat type aluminum handle that is simply bolted through a hole to a plate along the side wall, and tightened with a locknut. It has worked fine for eight years, but it lacks two things: adequate protection, and adjustable friction. My new throttle is now finished. I am very happy with the result. In fact, it is the best looking part I have ever made. Pictures available, as well as Power Point templates to cut the parts, if you want to replicate it. It is a bit overdesigned, but as Tony Bingelis puts it, it's the single most used control, so, maybe it's worth a few extra grams and added effort. Here are a few advices that will save you some trial and error. - The most difficult part to find is the knob. Ideally, what you need is a screw, anything between 6mm and 12mm, at least 30mm in length, with a knob attached. I found one at a hardware shop, but I have no clue for what it is normally used. If you can't find anything, a butterfly (wing) screw will do. - The easiest way to make the throttle lever, and more important, the throttle friction knob work, is to avoid any friction between the knob and the lever. Otherwise, the action of the lever will loosen the knob. So, make the knob so as its axle goes freely through the handle, and design your work so as if you tighten the knob, it squashes the lever and its friction washers between two plates. - The best washers for friction seem to be Nylon washers. - You will save a lot in working time and design complexity by using Rivnuts (these are sorts of large rivets, threaded on the inside, that you can rivet to a plate pretty much like a Pop rivet). Here is what I did: - The throttle is basically made of one plate (the handle) squashed between two other plates (the base plate and the cover plate), with everything adequately spaced. - I cut the support plate out of a 2mm aluminium sheet, hard grade (2024T3), and the cover plate out of a 1mm sheet. I think 1mm everywhere would work just as fine. - I then rivetted one 8mm thread Rivnut to the plate, at the position of theknob axle. This is the thread where the friction knob will screw in. - I riveted four 5mm Rivnuts at the corners, facing up (these hold the two plates together) - I cut 4 spacers out of an aluminum tube. These go at the 4 corners, and are held by 5mm screws that thread in the Rivnuts. I now had two plates, spaced together. - I made a small bush to go through the handle, to avoid friction with the knob thread (frankly, an overkill). - I put Nylon washers on either side of the handle. - I then made a spacer to fill the space between the top washer and the cover plate. The spacer consists of three large washers piled up and glued together with Epoxy. - And that's it! The knob goes through the cover plate, then the spacer, then top washer, then handle plate, then bottom washer, then Rivnut; when you tighten it, the cover plate bends slightly, and squashes the handle between the two Nylon washers. The friction remains even, even after 100 push-pull actions (Yes, I tried). - The rest is details: giving the hande a double bend to make it S-shaped, making wood stocks, fitting holes, and of course, the throttle cable mounting hole and screw. Oh, by the way, when you make your spacers, check how much thickness you will need for your cable attachment, and allow for some extra clearance. That throttle is very simple, yet, it's still 45 parts altogether! Unbelievable how fast the parts count goes up! Here is the datasheet. Throttle data Mass: 188 g Travel: 7.9mm Overall dimensions with handle at centre position: Height 151mm Length 98mm Width 50mm Overall dimensions with travel: Height 151mm Length 200mm Width 50mm Parts list 1. Base plate, aluminium, 2024T3, 2mm thick 1 2. Rivnut, 8mm 1 3. Rivnut, 5mm 4 4. Spacers, aluminium, 12.7mm OD, 10mm ID, L18mm 4 5. Capscrew, 5mm x 20mm 4 6. Washer, 5mm 4 7. Self tapering screw, SS, 3.5mm x 16mm 6 8. Face plate, aluminium, 2024T3, 1mm thick 1 9. Throttle handle, aluminium, 2024T3, 3mm thick 1 10. Wood stocks, seligna wood 2 11. Screw, 3mm x 21 2 12. Washer, 3mm 2 13. Locknut, 3mm 2 14. Friction adjustment screw, 8mm x 30mm 1 15. Washer, 8mm 1 16. Spacer, 8mm ID x 25mm OD x 9mm thickness 1 17. Washer, Nylon, 9mm 1 18. Bush, 8mm ID x 9mm OD x 4.2mm 1 19. Washer, Nylon, 8mm 1 20. Button head screw, 4mm x 16mm 1 21. Washer, 4mm 2 22. Locknut, 4mm 1 23. Throttle cable mounting bracket, alumiinum, 2mm thick 1 1 Tools list for mounting 1. Screwdriver, flat 2. Allen key, 2.5mm 3. Spanner, 7mm 4. Allen key, 4mm Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:40:50 -0600 From: "Bob Stone" To: , "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Throttle quadrant Message-ID: <000b01c3d850$e9498a40$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> References: <000001c3d84d$42f72380$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 Serge, How about some pictures of your throttle quadrant at least what = one would need to make one like it. Of course this will have to be off = net since no attachments are allowed. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 5:34 PM Subject: KR>Throttle quadrant > Since I am now many miles away from my KR2, I keep myself busy by = making > some parts that do not require many measurements. I started with = redoing the > throttle quadrant. Of course, you don't need a throttle quadrant if = you are > happy with a push-pull, vernier type throttle, but if, like me, you = like to > fly "HOTAS" (Hands on Throttle and Stick, another militaruy = acronym), > fighter style, a quadrant is not only nice to have but also fairly = easy to > make. > Today, ZS-WEC (that's my KR2) just has a boat type aluminum handle = that is > simply bolted through a hole to a plate along the side wall, and = tightened > with a locknut. It has worked fine for eight years, but it lacks two = things: > adequate protection, and adjustable friction. >=20 > My new throttle is now finished. I am very happy with the result. In = fact, > it is the best looking part I have ever made. Pictures available, as = well as > Power Point templates to cut the parts, if you want to replicate it. = It is a > bit overdesigned, but as Tony Bingelis puts it, it's the single most = used > control, so, maybe it's worth a few extra grams and added effort. > Here are a few advices that will save you some trial and error. >=20 > - The most difficult part to find is the knob. Ideally, what you = need is a > screw, anything between 6mm and 12mm, at least 30mm in length, with = a knob > attached. I found one at a hardware shop, but I have no clue for = what it is > normally used. If you can't find anything, a butterfly (wing) screw = will do. > - The easiest way to make the throttle lever, and more important, = the > throttle friction knob work, is to avoid any friction between the = knob and > the lever. Otherwise, the action of the lever will loosen the knob. = So, make > the knob so as its axle goes freely through the handle, and design = your work > so as if you tighten the knob, it squashes the lever and its = friction > washers between two plates. > - The best washers for friction seem to be Nylon washers. > - You will save a lot in working time and design complexity by using = Rivnuts > (these are sorts of large rivets, threaded on the inside, that you = can rivet > to a plate pretty much like a Pop rivet). >=20 > Here is what I did: >=20 > - The throttle is basically made of one plate (the handle) squashed = between > two other plates (the base plate and the cover plate), with = everything > adequately spaced. > - I cut the support plate out of a 2mm aluminium sheet, hard grade = (2024T3), > and the cover plate out of a 1mm sheet. I think 1mm everywhere would = work > just as fine. > - I then rivetted one 8mm thread Rivnut to the plate, at the = position of > theknob axle. This is the thread where the friction knob will screw = in. > - I riveted four 5mm Rivnuts at the corners, facing up (these hold = the two > plates together) > - I cut 4 spacers out of an aluminum tube. These go at the 4 = corners, and > are held by 5mm screws that thread in the Rivnuts. I now had two = plates, > spaced together. > - I made a small bush to go through the handle, to avoid friction = with the > knob thread (frankly, an overkill). > - I put Nylon washers on either side of the handle. > - I then made a spacer to fill the space between the top washer and = the > cover plate. The spacer consists of three large washers piled up and = glued > together with Epoxy. > - And that's it! The knob goes through the cover plate, then the = spacer, > then top washer, then handle plate, then bottom washer, then Rivnut; = when > you tighten it, the cover plate bends slightly, and squashes the = handle > between the two Nylon washers. The friction remains even, even after = 100 > push-pull actions (Yes, I tried). > - The rest is details: giving the hande a double bend to make it = S-shaped, > making wood stocks, fitting holes, and of course, the throttle cable > mounting hole and screw. Oh, by the way, when you make your spacers, = check > how much thickness you will need for your cable attachment, and = allow for > some extra clearance. >=20 > That throttle is very simple, yet, it's still 45 parts altogether! > Unbelievable how fast the parts count goes up! >=20 > Here is the datasheet. >=20 > Throttle data >=20 > Mass: 188 g > Travel: 7.9mm > Overall dimensions with handle at centre position: Height 151mm = Length 98mm > Width 50mm > Overall dimensions with travel: Height 151mm Length 200mm Width 50mm >=20 >=20 > Parts list >=20 > 1. Base plate, aluminium, 2024T3, 2mm thick 1 > 2. Rivnut, 8mm 1 > 3. Rivnut, 5mm 4 > 4. Spacers, aluminium, 12.7mm OD, 10mm ID, L18mm 4 > 5. Capscrew, 5mm x 20mm 4 > 6. Washer, 5mm 4 > 7. Self tapering screw, SS, 3.5mm x 16mm 6 > 8. Face plate, aluminium, 2024T3, 1mm thick 1 > 9. Throttle handle, aluminium, 2024T3, 3mm thick 1 > 10. Wood stocks, seligna wood 2 > 11. Screw, 3mm x 21 2 > 12. Washer, 3mm 2 > 13. Locknut, 3mm 2 > 14. Friction adjustment screw, 8mm x 30mm 1 > 15. Washer, 8mm 1 > 16. Spacer, 8mm ID x 25mm OD x 9mm thickness 1 > 17. Washer, Nylon, 9mm 1 > 18. Bush, 8mm ID x 9mm OD x 4.2mm 1 > 19. Washer, Nylon, 8mm 1 > 20. Button head screw, 4mm x 16mm 1 > 21. Washer, 4mm 2 > 22. Locknut, 4mm 1 > 23. Throttle cable mounting bracket, alumiinum, 2mm thick 1 1 >=20 > Tools list for mounting >=20 > 1. Screwdriver, flat > 2. Allen key, 2.5mm > 3. Spanner, 7mm > 4. Allen key, 4mm >=20 > Serge Vidal > KR2 ZS-WEC > Tunis, Tunisia >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:49:18 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>KR static system el cheapo Message-ID: <000301c3d852$1823e7b0$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Where exactly would you make the holes to avoid any high pressure/low pressure area? Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:16:23 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: , "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>Throttle quadrant Message-ID: <000c01c3d855$e08be470$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <000001c3d84d$42f72380$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Ooops! Sorry, throttle travel is 79mm, not 7.9. No spellchecker could find this one! Serge Vidal [Snip] Mass: 188 g Travel: 7.9mm [Snip] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 10:39:37 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "KRNET" Subject: KR>Porsche Engine Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 That Porsche engine on eBay looks like an outstanding buy, now at $535, 3 hours to go. Item # 2452440429 Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:10:39 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>Engines - Certified versus automotive conversions Message-ID: <001301c3d85d$754f8650$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 I truly did not know automotive conversions were an insurance problem. Sorry for you, guys. I think people tend to be a little bit personal on that engine debate. Hey, it's experimental aviation! Do as you please, and let the others do as they please! Just make your own opinion, and make your aircraft unique! Let me give you my rationale. "Certified" does not mean the best, or the most reliable, or the most economical, solution was applied. It simply means that no obvious hazard was found at the time of certification. Yes, aircraft engines have specific requirements. Yes, standard automotive engines do not meet all of these requirements, especially the redundancy principle (no single failure must lead to catastrophic failure). Does it mean that the 1930s technology they are based on is better than current automotive technology? Nope, it means there is no market today to justify the cost of designing and certifying something better. Does it mean that automotive engines can't be safely converted? Nope, simply that it takes some serious engineering to do it. I personally know the consultant who wrote the certification application of the Renault turbo-diesel engine (aimed at the professional aviation market, so still not cheap enough for us). His biggest problem was not engine failure rate, but... to prove that the engine could be cut at will! When I bought ZS-WEC, it was VW powered. Same technology basically as the Lycos and Cont's, but with a huge improvement: the very unreliable, tricky, finnicky and expensive ignition system called "magnetos" had been replaced with SOLID-STATE electronic ignition. Result: 400 hours without a glitch. I don't trust magnetos, having had my share of magnetos failures and incidents (I don't remember having had an ignition failure in a car in 18 years, by the way), and I feel much, much safer with a solid state electronic system. The ignition pick-ups were redundant, so only the coils and spark plugs were not. And of course, the electrical system has been well thought! Then, I started wanting more power, and I got myself a reasonably improved VW engine: 2.4 liter instead of 2.0 liter. I did not want a bigger one, because I want reliable power, not hot rods! This is where I installed a fully dual redundant solid state electronic ignition system. No single failure can lead to catastrophic failure, save for the carburetor, but I am told that Lycomings and Continentals are like that too. This, coupled with a decent, redundant, well protected battery system, would probably be certifiable. And I see no reason why it would be less reliable than a certified engine, quite the contrary. I am happy the solution I have, and even more happy with its cost. Now, what I really dream of, is a 4-seater, twin engine plane, powered with two state-of-the-art turbo-diesel engines, burning 5 liters an hour of Jet-A1 each!, all that for the price of 1 Lycoming engine... and I know it's technically feasible. Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:14:53 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>Turbo-Diesel kitplane Message-ID: <001401c3d85e$0c79f330$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <000301c3d852$1823e7b0$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 I did some extra research. The Dieselis is not yet marketed as a kitplane, but kit development is well under way in the Netherlands, under the name "RangeR". Maybe they will sell the engine separately one day? Here is the link. http://www.dac-ranger.nl/engsite/enstart.html Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:24:21 -0500 From: "Dean Cooper" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>KR static system el cheapo Message-ID: <03bb01c3d85f$5e633ac0$0502a8c0@office> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 >From Dana's description > >it sounds like you "pull" the rivet but I wonder if you couldn't just > >epoxy the rivet in the wood skin with a small amount of epoxy on the > >exterior, under the head, and leave the shank intact. The hose > >connection on the inside would also tend to hold it in place if the > >rivet doesn't push out when installing the hose. > > > >Larry Flesner I'm not sure exactly what they are called, but another solution is to pick up one of those washer/clips that are made of spring steel that slide on one way and the friction prevents them from coming off. You could use one of those over the shaft of the rivet on the inside of the fuselage without having to pull the mandrel through distorting the rivet shaft. I think they're only a few cents at Lowes, Home Depot, etc in the specialty hardware drawers. Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:02:43 -0500 From: "Kenneth B. Jones" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>KR static system el cheapo Message-ID: <017601c3d864$bb3e0900$8d7ba8c0@oemcomputer> References: <03bb01c3d85f$5e633ac0$0502a8c0@office> Precedence: list Message: 12 The rivet called out, .....42BS...., only has a grip length of 1/8". Seems you would want something longer, like a 46 (3/16" grip) or 48 (1/4" grip). This size might work on 0.020" aluminum but it looks a little short for 3/32" plywood. I would insert the rivet after applying a little epoxy/flox, pull just enough to start a flare on the end (or maybe not pull at all) and knock the mandrel out. Ken Jones Sharonville, OH ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 10:18:55 -0700 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" To: Subject: Re: KR>KR static system el cheapo Message-ID: <4001857F.000009.02496@bce-p949w4at3vz> References: <017601c3d864$bb3e0900$8d7ba8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 13 The one I'm building is right out of the "VolksPlane" assembly manual.=20 Epoxy a 1.5" x 1.5" x .75" block of spruce to the fuselage frame, drill a= =20 25" hole through it and the skin. Using .25" nylon tubing, run it into t= he block (should press fit into block). For the static port (this is my favorite part!), epoxy a disk made from an aluminum can over the hole and= a small hole in it. I like the idea of using a Coors label. It's "differe= nt" looking and gives it a unique touch! If you don't like Coors, use Foster= 's. If you don't drink at all, use a Pepsi or Coke label. =0D =0D "This is a great day for France!" --President Richard Nixon while attendi= ng Charles De Gaulle's funeral. Truer words were never spoken! =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet=0D Date: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:03:19 AM=0D To: KRnet=0D Subject: Re: KR>KR static system el cheapo=0D =0D The rivet called out, .....42BS...., only has a grip length of 1/8". Seem= s=0D you would want something longer, like a 46 (3/16" grip) or 48 (1/4" grip)= =2E=0D This size might work on 0.020" aluminum but it looks a little short for=0D 3/32" plywood. I would insert the rivet after applying a little epoxy/flo= x,=0D pull just enough to start a flare on the end (or maybe not pull at all) a= nd=0D knock the mandrel out.=0D =0D Ken Jones=0D Sharonville, OH=0D =0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =0D =2E ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 12:16:44 -0500 From: "robert cooper" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Throttle quadrant Message-ID: <410-220041011171644420@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 Serge I would also like to have some pictures of the quadrant. If you have some digital pictures please email me with pictures attached mailto:kr2cooper@earthlink.net Thanks Jack Cooper > [Original Message] > From: Bob Stone > To: ; KRnet > Date: 1/11/04 9:40:01 AM > Subject: Re: KR>Throttle quadrant > > Serge, > How about some pictures of your throttle quadrant at least what one would need to make one like it. Of course this will have to be off net since no attachments are allowed. > > Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx > rstone4@hot.rr.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Serge F. Vidal" > To: "'KRnet'" > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 5:34 PM > Subject: KR>Throttle quadrant > > > > Since I am now many miles away from my KR2, I keep myself busy by making > > some parts that do not require many measurements. I started with redoing the > > throttle quadrant. Of course, you don't need a throttle quadrant > if you are > > happy with a push-pull, vernier type throttle, but if, like me, > you like to > > fly "HOTAS" (Hands on Throttle and Stick, another militaruy acronym), > > fighter style, a quadrant is not only nice to have but also > fairly easy to > > make. > > Today, ZS-WEC (that's my KR2) just has a boat type aluminum handle that is > > simply bolted through a hole to a plate along the side wall, and tightened > > with a locknut. It has worked fine for eight years, but it lacks > two things: > > adequate protection, and adjustable friction. > > > > My new throttle is now finished. I am very happy with the result. > In fact, > > it is the best looking part I have ever made. Pictures available, > as well as > > Power Point templates to cut the parts, if you want to replicate > it. It is a > > bit overdesigned, but as Tony Bingelis puts it, it's the single > most used > > control, so, maybe it's worth a few extra grams and added effort. > > Here are a few advices that will save you some trial and error. > > > > - The most difficult part to find is the knob. Ideally, what you > need is a > > screw, anything between 6mm and 12mm, at least 30mm in length, > with a knob > > attached. I found one at a hardware shop, but I have no clue for > what it is > > normally used. If you can't find anything, a butterfly (wing) > screw will do. > > - The easiest way to make the throttle lever, and more important, the > > throttle friction knob work, is to avoid any friction between the knob and > > the lever. Otherwise, the action of the lever will loosen the > knob. So, make > > the knob so as its axle goes freely through the handle, and design your work > > so as if you tighten the knob, it squashes the lever and its friction > > washers between two plates. > > - The best washers for friction seem to be Nylon washers. > > - You will save a lot in working time and design complexity by > using Rivnuts > > (these are sorts of large rivets, threaded on the inside, that you can rivet > > to a plate pretty much like a Pop rivet). > > > > Here is what I did: > > > > - The throttle is basically made of one plate (the handle) > squashed between > > two other plates (the base plate and the cover plate), with everything > > adequately spaced. > > - I cut the support plate out of a 2mm aluminium sheet, hard grade (2024T3), > > and the cover plate out of a 1mm sheet. I think 1mm everywhere > would work > > just as fine. > > - I then rivetted one 8mm thread Rivnut to the plate, at the position of > > theknob axle. This is the thread where the friction knob will > screw in. > > - I riveted four 5mm Rivnuts at the corners, facing up (these hold the two > > plates together) > > - I cut 4 spacers out of an aluminum tube. These go at the 4 > corners, and > > are held by 5mm screws that thread in the Rivnuts. I now had two plates, > > spaced together. > > - I made a small bush to go through the handle, to avoid friction with the > > knob thread (frankly, an overkill). > > - I put Nylon washers on either side of the handle. > > - I then made a spacer to fill the space between the top washer > and the > > cover plate. The spacer consists of three large washers piled up > and glued > > together with Epoxy. > > - And that's it! The knob goes through the cover plate, then the spacer, > > then top washer, then handle plate, then bottom washer, then > Rivnut; when > > you tighten it, the cover plate bends slightly, and squashes the handle > > between the two Nylon washers. The friction remains even, even > after 100 > > push-pull actions (Yes, I tried). > > - The rest is details: giving the hande a double bend to make it S-shaped, > > making wood stocks, fitting holes, and of course, the throttle cable > > mounting hole and screw. Oh, by the way, when you make your > spacers, check > > how much thickness you will need for your cable attachment, and > allow for > > some extra clearance. > > > > That throttle is very simple, yet, it's still 45 parts altogether! > > Unbelievable how fast the parts count goes up! > > > > Here is the datasheet. > > > > Throttle data > > > > Mass: 188 g > > Travel: 7.9mm > > Overall dimensions with handle at centre position: Height 151mm Length 98mm > > Width 50mm > > Overall dimensions with travel: Height 151mm Length 200mm Width 50mm > > > > > > Parts list > > > > 1. Base plate, aluminium, 2024T3, 2mm thick 1 > > 2. Rivnut, 8mm 1 > > 3. Rivnut, 5mm 4 > > 4. Spacers, aluminium, 12.7mm OD, 10mm ID, L18mm 4 > > 5. Capscrew, 5mm x 20mm 4 > > 6. Washer, 5mm 4 > > 7. Self tapering screw, SS, 3.5mm x 16mm 6 > > 8. Face plate, aluminium, 2024T3, 1mm thick 1 > > 9. Throttle handle, aluminium, 2024T3, 3mm thick 1 > > 10. Wood stocks, seligna wood 2 > > 11. Screw, 3mm x 21 2 > > 12. Washer, 3mm 2 > > 13. Locknut, 3mm 2 > > 14. Friction adjustment screw, 8mm x 30mm 1 > > 15. Washer, 8mm 1 > > 16. Spacer, 8mm ID x 25mm OD x 9mm thickness 1 > > 17. Washer, Nylon, 9mm 1 > > 18. Bush, 8mm ID x 9mm OD x 4.2mm 1 > > 19. Washer, Nylon, 8mm 1 > > 20. Button head screw, 4mm x 16mm 1 > > 21. Washer, 4mm 2 > > 22. Locknut, 4mm 1 > > 23. Throttle cable mounting bracket, alumiinum, 2mm thick 1 1 > > > > Tools list for mounting > > > > 1. Screwdriver, flat > > 2. Allen key, 2.5mm > > 3. Spanner, 7mm > > 4. Allen key, 4mm > > > > Serge Vidal > > KR2 ZS-WEC > > Tunis, Tunisia > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:28:24 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>Window under the passenger seat Message-ID: <000d01c3d868$63024f40$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <017601c3d864$bb3e0900$8d7ba8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 This one is for structure experts. I have been dreaming for a while of cutting a window (a clear hatch, if you prefer) under the passenger seat. This would be a round window, about 12 cm (say 6 inches) in diameter. I would use it when I fly solo, with the passenger seat bottom cushion removed, as a camera window, to take pictures (verticall, or at a deep angle). Ideally, it could open, so that I can get a camera lens directly through it. Questions: - Is it feasible without weakening the structure? - If yes, is 12cm / 6 inches diameter OK? - How much must I reinforce (how thick must the reinforcement flange be?) - How thick is the floor at that place? - Any idea for the opening mechanism? Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 10:37:40 -0700 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" To: Subject: Re: KR>Edo-Aire question for the net Message-ID: <400189E4.000018.02496@bce-p949w4at3vz> References: Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 16 Thanks for the help, everyone. I was able to get a copy of the installation diagrams e-mailed directly to me.=0D =0D Gene Leone=0D Worland, Wyoming=0D =0D "This is a great day for France!" --President Richard Nixon while attendi= ng Charles De Gaulle's funeral. Truer words were never spoken! =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet=0D Date: Saturday, January 10, 2004 6:17:59 PM=0D To: krnet=0D Subject: Re: KR>Edo-Aire question for the net=0D =0D In the past I did some avionics installs and used a avionics supplier in Florida. ( Eastern or Southern Avionics I think. They advertise in trade = a plane.) In most cases I did not buy all or even many of the radios from t= hem This does not mean they won't help you. I have bought some pre-wired harnesses from them with the one end unwired. The cost was much less than= I could do it for, and did not cost much more than the parts cost. They bui= ld harnesses every day, and seem to fly through them. I asked them to send t= he pin-out diagram for the install and they were most helpful. You could ask them how much it would cost to build a pigtail harness, or if they would just supply the pin-out. As far as the A&P... well I won't go there=0D =0D ----- Original Message -----=0D From: gleone=0D Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 3:43 PM=0D To: krnet@mylist.net=0D Subject: KR>Edo-Aire question for the net=0D =0D I just acquired an Edo-Aire 563 (used but supposed to work). The problem = is=0D there is no wiring diagram for installing it. Does anyone have an Edo-Air= e=0D 563 or other Edo-Aire all in one Nav/Com's I can get a copy of the=0D installation wiring diagram from? I hate to have to go to an A&P to get i= t=0D done as they tend to charge an arm and leg. Thanks in advance,=0D =0D =0D =0D Gene Leone=0D =0D Worland, Wyoming=0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D =0D "This is a great day for France!" --President Richard Nixon while attendi= ng=0D Charles De Gaulle's funeral. Truer words were never spoken!=0D =0D =0D =0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =0D =2E ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 11:47:36 -0600 From: larry flesner To: serge.vidal@ate-international.com,KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Engines - Certified versus automotive conversions Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040111114736.007e0100@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <001301c3d85d$754f8650$2c0101c0@ate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17 >Yes, aircraft engines have specific requirements. Yes, standard >automotive engines do not meet all of these requirements, especially >the redundancy principle (no single failure must lead to catastrophic >failure). Serge Vidal ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= REALITY CHECK....... Beyond the dual mags, harness, and plugs, the aircraft engine has no advantage over any other engine when it comes to redundancy. Loose a connecting rod, bearing, piston, crank, cylinder, oil line, cam, carb, engine control cables, etc., etc., etc., and ANY engine is reduced to a weighted object bolted to the airframe that will help keep the W.& B. correct and the aircraft controlable until you reach the landing/crash site. The only true redundancy is to fly a twin engine aircraft and that opens a whole new can of worms. Pick an engine that you are comfortable flying behind so you can enjoy the flight hours you get until it someday fails and do your best to postpone that event as long as possible. I've been lucky in that with nearly 1000 flight hours I've not had to deal with that situation but, if I continue to fly, I'm sure some day I will. I can only hope it will be a very unexciting story for me to tell my friends. :-) Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 277, Issue 2 *************************************