From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:11 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 277, Issue 4 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: KR static system el cheapo 2. Re: Acrylic source 3. Re: Window under the passenger seat 4. Re: Acrylic source (Dan Heath) 5. Re: KR static system el cheapo (Dana Overall) 6. Twins (Colin & Bev Rainey) 7. Re: KR properly mount the static port system mentioned (Scott Cable) 8. Fw: KR>KR static system el cheapo (Norm Seel) 9. Re: Gorilla Glue (jim @ synergy design) 10. Engines - Certified versus auto (larry flesner) 11. Re: Gorilla Glue (Dan Heath) 12. Re: Canopy Progress (Scott Cable) 13. Re: Twins (Scott Cable) 14. Re: Twins (Brian Kraut) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:01:33 -0500 From: intrepid1ac@juno.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>KR static system el cheapo Message-ID: <20040111.150134.-234233.0.intrepid1ac@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Prior to seeing the pop-rivet approach, my own plan was to use a pair of #8-32 or #10-32 truss head phillips machine screws. A tiny hole was to be bored down through the head and shank of the bolt, and the threads would have helped grip the tubing. Self-locking fiber nut and washers, of course, and length-to-suit. But I like the pop-rivet better; and the local hardware store has a wide assortment of aluminum pop-rivets of many diameters and lengths. I'd avoid steel as it is harder to pull, will rust, etc. a r t Art Cacella 1970 American AA-1 N6155L "Dinkie", flying 2004 Sonerai-I, on gear w/engine, making wings 2004 Moni-m/G, on gear, mounting engine, making wings 2004 Polly, mini-RV-6, mounting engine & gear, all else done 200? KR-1, bought the Plans in 1972, still unstarted Winston-Salem, NC On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:07:27 -0600 larry flesner writes: > I suspect the total amount of expansion and contraction on a part that > small would not be a problem. From Dana's description it sounds like > you "pull" the rivet but I wonder if you couldn't just epoxy the rivet > in the wood skin with a small amount of epoxy on the exterior, under > the head, and leave the shank intact. > > The hose connection on the inside would also tend to hold it in > place > if the rivet doesn't push out when installing the hose. > > Larry Flesner > Carterville, Illinois > > > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:14:09 EST From: Raybeth321@wmconnect.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Acrylic source Message-ID: <186.23f94e1b.2d330891@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Dan, I have been reviewing some of my saved Emails and came across this one. You said "Don't do this". Were you referring to using Lucite? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:42:01 EST From: JSMONDAY@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Window under the passenger seat Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 I was thinking the same thing, but using some sort of permanently tempered glass to shoot through. Not sure I want the exhaust and oil on my camera!!! and I think if you wiped off the glass before you took off, it would probably stay clean enough for the several times I might take a picture. I was thinking of boxing something in the floor in front of the seat, but not far enough along to see if there would be enough room to work with a camera. The camera mount could be detachable from the front spar. John S. Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:55:44 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Acrylic source Message-ID: <4001B850.000001.03064@Computer> References: <186.23f94e1b.2d330891@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 4 Ray,=0D =0D Actually, no. I don't know what the qualities of Lucite are. I think that= it is an Acrylic just like Plexiglas. =0D =0D When I said "Don't do this", I was referring to trying to make your own windshield. The reason that I say that, is because it will cost you more = and give you more aggravation and take you more time than anyone should have = to endure.=0D =0D Why not just buy a bubble, like Mark Jones did and cut it up. Then you ar= e done. If you look at our site, you can see all the stuff that I had to do= to get this done, and I am not positive that the one that is in there, is no= t going to start cracking, before I get it to the airport. When you can buy= a bubble from Todd for around $325, it just does not make sense to make thi= s part. If you already have a bubble and cannot use the front of it for the windshield, call Todd and ask him if you can purchase the back half of a bubble that he has made for someone else. =0D =0D As long as you design your frame around the bubble that you have and the parts that you are going to use, it is a relatively easy job. =0D =0D It took me over 2 years and I cannot know how many hours to get just this windshield and it is no where near as perfect as part of a bubble would b= e.=0D =0D I promise you, you cannot lay Acrylic on anything and heat it to 300 degr= ees without picking up the pattern of what it is laying on. I bought billiard table felt for a 60" width, 16" wide, for a dollar an inch and it even picked up the pattern of that.=0D =0D If you want to discuss it more, mail me off the net, as this is probably = as much ranting as anyone on the net deserves to have to put up with.=0D =0D Later, =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet=0D Date: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:14:20 PM=0D To: krnet@mylist.net=0D Subject: Re: KR>Acrylic source=0D =0D Dan, I have been reviewing some of my saved Emails and came across this=0D one. You said "Don't do this". Were you referring to using Lucite?=0D _______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2E ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:00:25 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>KR static system el cheapo Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 >From: intrepid1ac@juno.com > But I like the pop-rivet better; and the local hardware store > has a wide assortment of aluminum pop-rivets of many > diameters and lengths. I'd avoid steel as it is harder to > pull, will rust, etc. > > a r t Art, these steel head pop rivets have a head size of 3/8". Most aluminum pop rivets you find will have a very rounded lip on the outside of the head. These steel head rivets slope down to a near flush joint with the surface. The more rounded edge found on an aluminum pop rivet may cause airflow separation, creating an inconsistant low pressure area above the static port. These are a piece of cake to pull. Additionally, as I mentioned before, these rivet heads are treated in some manner. They appear as glossy as the alclad aluminum they are affixed to on my project. If you are worried about rusting, scuff the head up with a scotch pad and prime with NAPA 7220 rattle can self etching primer, found at your local NAPA store. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:02:11 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Twins Message-ID: <006c01c3d886$2eba1470$f2452141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 Larry,=20 Unless you build the centerline thrust version of the KR twin that = someone rendered a drawing of, a traditional twin engine configuration = will most likely be enough to take you to the crash site, and that's = all! Traditional light twins I am not sure for most people ever improve = things, when they go single engine. I agree, stick with simplicity and = maintain it, and always plan for the possibility of failure. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htmlFrom crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 11 13:22:20 2004 Received: from ms-smtp-03-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.133] helo=ms-smtp-03.tampabay.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1Afn2K-000GBv-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:22:20 -0800 Received: from RaineyDay (242.69.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.69.242]) by ms-smtp-03.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i0BLC06X013230 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:12:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007701c3d887$43c93430$f2452141@RaineyDay> From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:09:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Bottom window X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Mark Langford may have to correct me on this one, but I believe he has = on his site an illustration of the pressure developed around the cowling = of a KR, and if that carries through to the bottom of the fuselage, you = will not be able to close the window very easily,or maybe at all once = open, and may find a drastic change in aircraft performance due to = disrupted airflow/aerodynamics. If such high pressure air is allowed to = enter the cockpit it may also strain/blowout the canopy/windows due to = the lower pressure within the cockpit relative to the outside bottom = air. I would do some serious checking before making this modification = and then flying. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htmlFrom DanRH@alltel.net Sun Jan 11 13:27:09 2004 Received: from mta01.alltel.net ([166.102.165.143] helo=mta01-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Afn6z-000GJw-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:27:09 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.235]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20040111211649.JWQH11508.mta01-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:16:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4001BD52.000003.03064@Computer> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:17:06 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <006c01c3d886$2eba1470$f2452141@RaineyDay> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Twins Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: My thought on Twins is that it just gives you twice the chance of having = an engine failure. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet=0D Date: Sunday, January 11, 2004 4:04:21 PM=0D To: KRnet=0D Subject: KR>Twins=0D =0D Larry,=0D Unless you build the centerline thrust version of the KR twin that someon= e rendered a drawing of, a traditional twin engine configuration will most likely be enough to take you to the crash site, and that's all! Tradition= al light twins I am not sure for most people ever improve things, when they = go single engine. I agree, stick with simplicity and maintain it, and always plan for the possibility of failure.=0D =0D Colin & Bev Rainey=0D KR2(td) N96TA=0D Sanford, FL=0D crainey1@cfl.rr.com=0D or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com=0D http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index html_______________________________________________=0D see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =2EFrom crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 11 13:42:39 2004 Received: from ms-smtp-01-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.131] helo=ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1AfnLz-000GTb-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:42:39 -0800 Received: from RaineyDay (242.69.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.69.242]) by ms-smtp-01.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i0BLWJVh008987 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:32:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b601c3d88a$1a69be90$f2452141@RaineyDay> From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:30:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Static port X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Netters, As a simple alternative to the port Dana is referring to, I bought the = static port kit from AS&S that required one 1/2" or 3/4" hole to be = drilled in the fuselage, and then the static port pushed through it, and = with a washer and then the supplied nut, capture the entire assembly. = Tighten and you Oula! you have a new static port. The attach fitting = for the lie is a barbed fitting that you simply slip your line onto. = >From the outside it is very clean and looks as good as any Cessna port. >= I installed mine half way up the side of the fuse on the pilot's side, = and half way to the cockpit from the cowling seam. It took no more the = ten minutes, and is very clean and neat. =20 Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htmlFrom SkyVisionSC@aol.com Sun Jan 11 14:15:37 2004 Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.103]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Afnrs-000Gt2-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:15:37 -0800 Received: from SkyVisionSC@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id g.8b.1082229 (4340) for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:05:09 -0500 (EST) From: SkyVisionSC@aol.com Message-ID: <8b.1082229.2d332295@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:05:09 EST To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10582 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Gorilla Glue X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Hello... Has anyone looked into using the new "Gorilla" Glue for wooden A/C construction? I'm about to begin building new wings for my KR, and I wonder if would be OK. Thanks...Sherman Swofford ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:41:00 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>KR properly mount the static port system mentioned Message-ID: <20040111224100.74804.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <40014DE2.000001.01868@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7 Dan, Here's how I would do it: 1.) Make a small doubler out of plywood (same thickness as the skin) Make it double the aera of the rivet head ( calculate the area of the rivet head then double the area not the diameter). 2.) Drill the full size hole in both pieces. remove the doubler, drill the skin next size hole larger. 3.) Fabricate a back-up "washer" or doubler out of .012 aluminum. 4.) Mix up some flox, flox both doublers onto the back side of the skin. 5.) Insert and squeeze the pop rivet. Let the whole thing cure overnight. 6.) The next day, pin punch the rivet stem out being sure you back it up. 7.) Add your tubing and you're done. Dan Heath wrote: RE: how would one properly mount the static port system mentioned, utilizing an aluminum rivets through wood? Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" SweepstakesFrom DanRH@alltel.net Sun Jan 11 14:59:54 2004 Received: from mta01.alltel.net ([166.102.165.143] helo=mta01-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AfoYk-000HV2-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:59:54 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.235]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20040111224935.KZFC11508.mta01-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:49:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <4001D30F.000009.03064@Computer> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:49:51 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Content-Type: Text/Plain X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <20040111224100.74804.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> X-FID: PLAINTXT-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: 3.0 X-CNT: ; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>KR properly mount the static port system mentioned X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Scott,=0D =0D Thanks, you are much more of an engineer than I. I am going to drill the hole, backfill the rivet with flox, put it in the hole and squeeze lightl= y. The next day, I am going to remove the mandrel and hook the whole thing u= p.=0D =0D I thought about buying the static ports from Wicks and that is probably a good thing and would cost only a little more. The reason that I didn't is because this one has it's own attaching mechanism and is so simple. I lov= e simple.=0D =0D Window tapes have been applied and tomorrow I will remove the safety angl= es at the lower ends of the windshield and tape that in. Then it is on to fi= ll and sand. I will bet that I have the top of this plane painted by the end= of this month.=0D =0D You wouldn't believe how big this canopy looks. It is normal size, but it looks as big as an RV. I love it. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:07:13 -0800 From: "Norm Seel" To: "Krnet" Subject: Fw: KR>KR static system el cheapo Message-ID: <020301c3d8b0$cba5f2c0$e6c12304@dslverizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 I remember seeing some time back the idea of using a drilled out machine screw. Either way seems fine. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 12:01 PM Subject: Re: KR>KR static system el cheapo > > Prior to seeing the pop-rivet approach, my own plan > was to use a pair of #8-32 or #10-32 truss head phillips > machine screws. A tiny hole was to be bored down through > the head and shank of the bolt, and the threads would have > helped grip the tubing. Self-locking fiber nut and washers, > of course, and length-to-suit. > > But I like the pop-rivet better; and the local hardware store > has a wide assortment of aluminum pop-rivets of many > diameters and lengths. I'd avoid steel as it is harder to > pull, will rust, etc. > > a r t > > Art Cacella 1970 American AA-1 N6155L "Dinkie", flying > 2004 Sonerai-I, on gear w/engine, making wings > 2004 Moni-m/G, on gear, mounting engine, making > wings > 2004 Polly, mini-RV-6, mounting engine & gear, > all else done > 200? KR-1, bought the Plans in 1972, still > unstarted > Winston-Salem, NC > > > On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 07:07:27 -0600 larry flesner > writes: > > I suspect the total amount of expansion and contraction on a part > > that small would not be a problem. From Dana's description it > > sounds like you "pull" the rivet but I wonder if you couldn't just > > epoxy the rivet in the wood skin with a small amount of epoxy on the > > exterior, under the head, and leave the shank intact. > > > > The hose connection on the inside would also tend to hold it in > > place if the rivet doesn't push out when installing the hose. > > > > Larry Flesner > > Carterville, Illinois > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the > web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com > to sign up today! > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:27:51 -0700 From: "jim @ synergy design" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Gorilla Glue Message-ID: <00a701c3d89a$89996300$0101a8c0@pavilion> References: <8b.1082229.2d332295@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Sherman, I use Gorilla glue ocassionally for work(cabinetmaker) I would NOT recommend in any way using the stuff. It Is NOT" the strongest glue on planet Earth",as they say. I have had joints fail. It is also a pain to use(wet one surface) I totally recommend T-88. Hope this helps. Jim Sporka Kr2-s. Corvair, Colorado ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:05 PM Subject: KR>Gorilla Glue > Hello... > Has anyone looked into using the new "Gorilla" Glue for wooden A/C > construction? I'm about to begin building new wings for my KR, and I > wonder if would be OK. > Thanks...Sherman Swofford > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:17:51 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>Engines - Certified versus auto Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040111171751.007dd4f0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <005401c3d879$5610f460$03fea8c0@davids> References: <3.0.6.32.20040111114736.007e0100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 10 When lyco and >cont made engines magnetos were very unreliable so they put 2 on incase >one failed. With 2 magnetos you have to have two wiring harnesses and >two spark plugs. David Mikesell ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Some of the early low horsepower, smaller cube aircraft engines only used one mag. When the bore of the engines increased above a certian size they needed a second mag and plug to get an efficent fuel burn on the power stroke. The flame just would not span that volume effectivly. That's the reason you get the rpm drop during mag checks. That's also the reason you run with both mags "on" and don't just save one in case of failure. The unused plugs may also foul over but let's not even go there. The old farm tractors ran on just one mag. Perhaps if they had used dual mags they might have gotten their crops in faster. :-) This could be an endless debate. I suspect that if you did a + / - column for each system you will end up with a flyable C.G. with either system. I was able to fix my wing tank leak (it appears) without having to cut any wing skins. I opened the 48" rib at the base, fixed the leak, and closed it back up. It cured while I watched the local University's BB team put another notch in the W column. They beat the team picked preseason as #1. They are now 10/2 and the KR should be flying again in a week or so.Yeee Haaa, let the good time roll !! Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:33:27 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Gorilla Glue Message-ID: <4001DD47.00000B.03064@Computer> References: <00a701c3d89a$89996300$0101a8c0@pavilion> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 11 Sherman,=0D =0D If you are just looking for the right glue to use, look in the Wicks or Aircraft Spruce catalog. They have complete descriptions of each. They te= ll you what to use it for, how long the pot life is, and how long it takes t= o cure at what temperature. If you don't have these catalogs, get them. The= y are free and are a great resource.=0D =0D I also like T-88, but you should really make your own decision after doin= g a little research.=0D =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:34:07 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Canopy Progress Message-ID: <20040111233407.14072.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <4001D30F.000009.03064@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 Dan, Yeah, that's the beauty of Dana's suggestion. I love simple too. Sounds like your canopy is TOP Drawer, I glad you're making progress. Speaking of which.... My Lower Canopy Latches are installed. Along with lengths of 1/16" braided cable. The cable inserts into the end of the latch as is secured by the tyniest allen wrench in my toolbox. Man I like these latches! I'm adding fiberglass "T" stiffeners and angles to the forward "deck" skin. These T's and angles are already added to the forward canopy skin. I took a sample part with me to work the other day. A bunch of Strength Engineers work near my office. This one placed the T upside down between his desk and reference table, placed his upper body weight on it. He couldn't believe how strong it was! He didn't break or even make it crack! The Forward "Deck" is only about 4 inches long! So do you still want to call it a forward deck? I'm also in the middle of making another tool out of foam to make an angle from. This angle after it's cured will be attached to the aft face of the firewall, and the inside of the forward skin. It will be bonded to the skin, although I haven't decided if I'm going to permanently attach this "deck" or use platenuts and countersunk screws..... I know it's not exactly simple, but... It's so light weight, I can't help but use this thing somewhere... I was rumaging around my basement boxes when I found a couple of power lumbar motor assemblies. It's attached to a plastic hosed cable drive transmission. The cable travel is 2.0625. The motor and transmission are fully reversable. I will add a drive lug to my right side gooseneck hinge to attach the end of the drive cable to. Add a micro switch to the canopy latches that is nomally closed.... I now have a power canopy, No pnuematic (gas Lift Arms) struts needed. The motor assembly weighs a lot less than the lift arms....Added benefit: Adjustable canopy opening height, ..... at the press of a switch. Hee hee heee. I love simple, but I love Sneaky even better!!!! Dan Heath wrote: I love simple. Window tapes have been applied and tomorrow I will remove the safety angles at the lower ends of the windshield and tape that in. Then it is on to fill and sand. I will bet that I have the top of this plane painted by the end of this month. You wouldn't believe how big this canopy looks. It is normal size, but it looks as big as an RV. I love it. Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" SweepstakesFrom Boeing757mech1@aol.com Sun Jan 11 16:03:55 2004 Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.101]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AfpYh-000IMz-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:03:55 -0800 Received: from Boeing757mech1@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.8.) id g.21.393e968c (16781) for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:53:34 -0500 (EST) From: Boeing757mech1@aol.com Message-ID: <21.393e968c.2d333bfe@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 18:53:34 EST Subject: Re: KR>Twins To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: >My thought on Twins is that it just gives you twice the chance of >having an engine failure. Yeah! Twins are dangerous, but it would be nice to build an economical twin with cheap automotive engines so my girlfriend could build thousands of hours of multi time cheap. Chris Theroux Gilbert, AZ. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 15:59:13 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Twins Message-ID: <20040111235913.69423.qmail@web40809.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <21.393e968c.2d333bfe@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 Chris, Check-out the Zeneith aircraft site. I was at an open house of theirs several years ago and flew in the CH701. They were developing a really neat twin version of the CH601 HDS... Called the CH620. They had twin Jabiru 2200's on it. Boeing757mech1@aol.com wrote: >My thought on Twins is that it just gives you twice the chance of >having an engine failure. Yeah! Twins are dangerous, but it would be nice to build an economical twin with cheap automotive engines so my girlfriend could build thousands of hours of multi time cheap. Chris Theroux Gilbert, AZ. _______________________________________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" SweepstakesFrom crainey1@cfl.rr.com Sun Jan 11 16:48:15 2004 Received: from ms-smtp-02-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.132] helo=ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1AfqFb-000Imz-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:48:15 -0800 Received: from RaineyDay (242.69.33.65.cfl.rr.com [65.33.69.242]) by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i0C0brqZ015270 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:37:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001b01c3d8a4$07342580$f2452141@RaineyDay> From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:35:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Twins X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Scott & Chris & netters, The Zodiac twin is called Gemini and has been tabled due to the work = Chris Heinz is having to do to get the CH640 up and going, which is = their 4 seat version of the Ch 601. The Gemini is a standard light twin with a critical engine. If you = don't know what that is, then truthfully you are biting off more than = you can chew. A critical engine aircraft is one that has one engine = that when the loss of that engine occurs, it most adversely effects the = control of that aircraft. Since the Jabiru engines rotate the same = direction, the left engine becomes the critical engine because it most = adversely effects directional control. One other curious note is that = there are very few full feathering props out there for non-certified = engines, and this equipment is basically a necessity for any standard = light twin. I am not going to take up alot of space here on the net, = but anyone desiring to discuss standard light twins further, feel free = to contact me off the net. I doubt very seriously if the FAA would allow = the certification of a light twin, or the operation of that twin without = the pilot having a multi-engine rating. IF they did, one would be a = fool to fly it without formal training in light twins. Especially in = this case, what you don't know WILL kill you!=20 This is probably the reasoning behind the designing of the Cessna = Skymaster, which has 2 engines fuselage mounted, creating what is known = as centerline thrust. This configuration truly does give you a backup = engine to get home on. The Adam Aircraft new business twin is designed = the same way. Burt Rutan did that one. Mark Langford had a picture at = one time of an artist's rendering of what a centerline thrust KR2 might = look like. One could install 2 Hirth or similar 2 cycle engines and = achieve very similar weights to the present KR2, and have some 2 engine = really incredible performance. Be aware that this aircraft would = probably still require a multi-engine license, and that license would = have a limitation stated on it for centerline thrust only, if it were = acquired in this or a similarly configured aircraft. But man would that = plane fly. Trips over water and over high mountains, etc.. would be = possible with piece of mind instead of sweating bullets, until the = summits were behind you. It definitely would make things = interesting..... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htmlFrom GAVINANDLOUISE@bigpond.com Sun Jan 11 17:04:26 2004 Received: from gizmo08ps.bigpond.com ([144.140.71.18]) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AfqVG-000J0E-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:04:26 -0800 Received: (qmail 4343 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2004 00:50:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO psmam03.bigpond.com) (144.135.25.75) by gizmo08ps.bigpond.com with SMTP; 12 Jan 2004 00:50:01 -0000 Received: from bph-d2-p-77-157.tmns.net.au ([144.134.77.157]) by psmam03.bigpond.com(MAM REL_3_4_2 83/27703129) with SMTP id 27703129; Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:54:00 +1000 Message-ID: <009a01c3d8a7$8e59e560$9d4d8690@oemcomputer> From: "Gavin Donohoe" To: "KR builders and pilots" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:01:04 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Twins X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I have some beaut pics of a twin VW powered plane, though I don't know = what it is on my PC. If anybody wants to see it tell me where to send it so someone can post = it on to their site. Gavin=20 Australia=20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/04From lcriscil@tampabay.rr.com Sun Jan 11 17:15:56 2004 Received: from ms-smtp-02-smtplb.tampabay.rr.com ([65.32.5.132] helo=ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1AfqgO-000J9A-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 17:15:56 -0800 Received: from your1rnfg39627 (6535219hfc105.tampabay.rr.com [65.35.219.105]) by ms-smtp-02.tampabay.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i0C15ZqX005891 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:05:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c3d8a8$2f33b8d0$0300a8c0@your1rnfg39627> From: "Les Criscillo" To: "KRnet" References: <032b01c3d7c9$654b7c30$0502a8c0@office> Subject: Re: KR>Conversion to AS5046 airfoil Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 20:05:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Congratulations! I hope that the others who were considering going with = the new spar, but concerned about the effort surrounding removing the = spar, will take the plunge too! I feel it's worth it and I'm looking = forward to flying with the new wing. Les Criscillo Tampa, FL Lcriscil@tampabay.rr.com http://groups.msn.com/LesLifeandfriends/homepage ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dean Cooper=20 To: KRnet=20 Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 17:30 Subject: KR>Conversion to AS5046 airfoil Netters, Well, I decided to convert to the new AS5046 airfoil. Thanks to some = insight from Les Criscillo on exactly how to go about it, I have = successfully cut out my aft spar. It took me about 2 hours to cut it = out and clean up the joints. I just got back from Kinko's, where they = printed up the airfoil templates for $11.37 with tax. Now it's on to = cutting out the new ribs and re-securing the aft spar to the fuselage. = I have taken pictures through the process and will post once it is = complete. Happy building.... =20 Dean Cooper Jacksonville, FL Email me at dean_cooper@bellsouth.net See my KR project at = www.geocities.com/djramccoop1/KR2_Home.html______________________________= _________________ see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.htmlFrom kr2cooper@earthlink.net Sun Jan 11 19:51:16 2004 Received: from heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.189]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1Aft6i-000L3K-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:51:16 -0800 Received: from user-0c8hlof.cable.mindspring.com ([24.136.215.15] helo=earthlink.net) by heron.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1Afswj-0007LY-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 11 Jan 2004 19:40:58 -0800 Message-ID: <410-22004111234035320@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: EarthLink MailBox 2004.0.129.0 (Windows) From: "robert cooper" To: "serge.vidal@ate-international.com, KRnet" Subject: RE: KR>Window under the passenger seat Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 22:40:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-ELNK-Trace: 43a40ff3c21252eb71639b933de7ae6f7e972de0d01da9403a0bb6e5e751ed83cbd961650df9ffc9350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: kr2cooper@earthlink.net, KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: I once flew a Piper Apache that had been modified for aerial surveys. The back seats had been removed and in place was one small seat for the camera operator. There was a large hole in the floor about 18" diameter with a glass cover. In flight the cover was removed and the camera inserted into the hole. Also there was a Plexiglass port in the floor so the pilot could view straight down. Most of the aerial surveys were done at 10,000 ft AGL and on a perfectly clear day. A cloud would cast a shadow on the ground and distort the pictures. I can't give any advice as to how the modifications should be done but if the glass cover could be removed and the camera inserted in flight in an Apache it should be safe to do it in a KR. Just keep it simple enough so you can do it without diverting too much time and attention from flying. > [Original Message] > From: Serge F. Vidal > To: KRnet > Date: 1/11/04 2:31:07 PM > Subject: KR>Window under the passenger seat > > This one is for structure experts. > > I have been dreaming for a while of cutting a window (a clear hatch, > if you > prefer) under the passenger seat. This would be a round window, about > 12 cm > (say 6 inches) in diameter. I would use it when I fly solo, with the > passenger seat bottom cushion removed, as a camera window, to take pictures > (verticall, or at a deep angle). Ideally, it could open, so that I can get a > camera lens directly through it. > > Questions: > > - Is it feasible without weakening the structure? > - If yes, is 12cm / 6 inches diameter OK? > - How much must I reinforce (how thick must the reinforcement flange > be?) > - How thick is the floor at that place? > - Any idea for the opening mechanism? > > Serge Vidal > KR2 ZS-WEC > Tunis, Tunisia > > > _______________________________________________ > see KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:00:59 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Brian Kraut To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Twins Message-ID: <6974969.1073880059563.JavaMail.root@thecount.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Actually Collin, I don't think that you would need a multi engine rating to fly an experimental twin. FAR 61.31 (d) (1) states that a pilot in command must "Hold the appropriate category, class, and type rating (if a class rating and type rating are required) for the aircraft to be flown." Part (k) Exceptions states "The rating limitations of this section do not apply to- ... (iii) The holder of a pilot certificate when operating an aircraft under the authority of an experimental or provisional aircraft type certificate." This part of the regulations is not the easiest thing to interpret so I could be wrong on the twin part of the rules, but I am certain and have verified with the EAA help line and the local FAA FSDO, that the requirements for a tailwheel signoff or a complex signoff that are also covered under this same part of the rules do not apply to an experimental. This is something that is not widely known by most pilots or instructors. Of course you would be a fool to try flying a twin experimental, or complex or tailwheel experimental, without adequate training. The FAA and your insurance company would also be pretty hard on you without a tailwheel signoff or multi rating if you had any accident that could be attributed to your lack of training even though you were technically legal. Colin & Bev Rainey wrote: Scott & Chris & netters, Be aware that this aircraft would probably still require a multi-engine license, and that license would have a limitation stated on it for centerline thrust only, if it were acquired in this or a similarly configured aircraft. But man would that plane fly. Trips over water and over high mountains, etc.. would be possible with piece of mind instead of sweating bullets, until the summits were behind you. It definitely would make things interesting..... Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htm ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 277, Issue 4 *************************************