From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:55 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 280, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Your Contact Info (Harold Woods) 2. Regs (Colin & Bev Rainey) 3. Re: One BID (Phillip Matheson) 4. Re: One BID (larry severson) 5. My updated contact info (John Mau) 6. Spam (Colin & Bev Rainey) 7. Re: One BID (Dan Heath) 8. No Fraying (Dan Heath) 9. Tailwheel talk (Bill Pleso) 10. Re: Gorilla Glue 11. Re: Tailwheel talk (David Mikesell) 12. Re: Conversion to AS5046 airfoil 13. Re: OFF SUBJECT 14. Re: GK 1 Aircraft 15. Re: Auto engines (David Lininger) 16. Re: Tailwheel talk (Bill Pleso) 17. Re: Auto engines-vs Aero Engine Manifesto (Scott Cable) 18. Re: Spam (Justin) 19. Re: DAR's and inspections 20. One BID / progress report (larry flesner) 21. Re: Auto engines-vs Aero Engine Manifesto (larry severson) 22. RE: Auto engines-vs Aero Engine Manifesto (Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)) 23. Spar questions (Gavin Donohoe) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Jan 2004 21:35:54 -0000 From: "Harold Woods" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>Your Contact Info Message-ID: <1074029754.7509.82085.sendUpdate@mx.plaxo.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_-------==2089426611" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk Message: 1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_-------==2089426611 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit krnet@mylist.net, I'm updating my address book. Please take a moment to update me with your latest contact info. Click the following link to correct or confirm your information: https://www.plaxo.com/edit_contact_info?r=99271-18019836-614853007&t=web Name: krnet@mylist.net Job Title: Company: Work E-mail: krnet@mylist.net Work Phone: Work Fax: Work Address Line 1: Work Address Line 2: Work City, State, Zip: Mobile Phone: Home E-mail: Home Phone: Home Fax: Home Address Line 1: Home Address Line 2: Home City, State, Zip: Birthday: My current contact information: P.S. I've included my personal card below so that you have my current information. I've also attached a copy as a vCard. +----------------- | Harold Woods | haroldwoods@rogers.com | | 15 Champlain St | Orillia,ON. | home: 705 325 6058. +------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________ This message was sent to you by haroldwoods@rogers.com via Plaxo. To have Plaxo automatically handle these messages in the future, go to: http://www.plaxo.com/autoreply Plaxo's Privacy Policy: http://www.plaxo.com/support/privacy --_-------==2089426611 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="Harold Woods.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Harold Woods.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-PLAXO-VERSION:1.0 N:Woods;Harold;;; FN:Harold Woods ADR;HOME;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;15 Champlain St;Orillia;ON.;;Canada TEL;HOME;VOICE:705 325 6058. EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:haroldwoods@rogers.com END:VCARD --_-------==2089426611-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:34:54 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Regs Message-ID: <002701c3da25$777afda0$f2452141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2 Thank you Dana, Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htmlFrom larry2@socal.rr.com Tue Jan 13 15:33:56 2004 Received: from ms-smtp-02-qfe0.socal.rr.com ([66.75.162.134] helo=ms-smtp-02-eri0.socal.rr.com) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1AgY2m-00062u-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:33:56 -0800 Received: from SteveCanyon.socal.rr.com (cpe-66-75-117-49.socal.rr.com [66.75.117.49]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with ESMTP id i0DNNgNS010308 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:23:42 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113152026.0138fd38@pop-server.socal.rr.com> X-Sender: larry2@pop-server.socal.rr.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:23:41 -0800 To: KRnet From: larry severson In-Reply-To: <005001c3d94e$d934d2a0$75a0fea9@johnjane> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: KR>One BID X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: The KR2 manual frequently calls for one BID or 2 BID overlapping 1 inch. Is this the same as the Aircraft Spruce fiberglass tapes (pg 31) in 2003-2004 catalog? Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:35:06 +1100 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>One BID Message-ID: <008201c3da2d$e0a1f600$ac97dccb@ralf> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113152026.0138fd38@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Larry. I do not have the A/S book with me, but it needs to be 5 oz bi-directional cloth , and usually cut at 45Dec, tape may not be cut at 45Dec. The tapes are good to use on some jobs because of the finished edges, NO fraying. Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and home built Parts and Kits at: http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:37:55 -0800 From: larry severson To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>One BID Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113153625.0138fbd0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <008201c3da2d$e0a1f600$ac97dccb@ralf> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113152026.0138fd38@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 At 10:35 AM 1/14/2004 +1100, you wrote: >Larry. >I do not have the A/S book with me, but it needs to be 5 oz >bi-directional cloth , and usually cut at 45Dec, tape may not be cut at >45Dec. Does this mean just take the standard KR2 cloth (5.85 oz) and cut a strip on 45 degree bias? Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 2004 00:14:55 -0000 From: "John Mau" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>My updated contact info Message-ID: <1074039295.21867.363059.sendUpdate@mx.plaxo.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_-------==3695823800" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk Message: 5 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_-------==3695823800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit KRnet, Here is my latest contact info for your records. If you want my contact info automatically updated in your address book or if you want to get your address book up-to-date, you should try Plaxo too. My current contact information: +----------------- | John Mau | maujohn@qwest.net | Training Coordinator | | Micron | Lehi, Utah +------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________ This message was sent to you by maujohn@qwest.net via Plaxo. To have Plaxo automatically handle these messages in the future, go to: http://www.plaxo.com/autoreply Plaxo's Privacy Policy: http://www.plaxo.com/support/privacy --_-------==3695823800 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="John Mau.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="John Mau.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-PLAXO-VERSION:1.0 N:Mau;John;;; FN:John Mau ORG:Micron TITLE:Training Coordinator ADR;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:;;;Lehi;Utah;;USA EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:maujohn@qwest.net END:VCARD --_-------==3695823800-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:27:45 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Spam Message-ID: <005c01c3da35$3b3c8650$f2452141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 Mark, Isn't this guy who is trying to push PLAXO spamming the krnet? This happened once before this year and you had to block/bump him too. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htmlFrom matheson@dodo.com.au Tue Jan 13 16:42:06 2004 Received: from relay01.kbs.net.au ([203.220.32.149]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AgZ6k-0006wp-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 16:42:06 -0800 Received: from [203.220.151.172] (helo=ralf) by relay01.kbs.net.au with smtp (Exim 3.36 #2) id 1AgYwq-0005DK-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:31:52 +1100 Message-ID: <00a101c3da36$60b3ef80$ac97dccb@ralf> From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KRnet" References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113152026.0138fd38@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20040113153625.0138fbd0@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Subject: Re: KR>One BID Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 11:35:56 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Does this mean just take the standard KR2 cloth (5.85 oz) and cut a strip on 45 degree bias? ------------------------- That would be my understanding!!!!!! And I have done that myself with good results Phil Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia 61 3 58833588 See our VW Engines and home built Parts and Kits at: http://www.vw-engines.com/ www.homebuilt-aviation.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:55:31 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>One BID Message-ID: <40049383.000006.03628@Computer> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113152026.0138fd38@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 Larry,=0D =0D BID refers to BiDirectional weave. As opposed to UniDirectional weave.=20 When you look at the cloth, it will appear that the weave runs on the diagonal. I don't think that this refers to fiberglass tapes.=0D =0D We use the Rutan glass as in the LongEZ, however, it may be a little heav= y, it is easy to work with. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Tue Jan 13 17:07:21 2004 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AgZVB-0007CO-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:07:21 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.235]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20040114005707.BOOX25194.mta02-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:57:07 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <400493E1.000008.03628@Computer> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:57:05 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <00a101c3da36$60b3ef80$ac97dccb@ralf> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 Subject: KR>Does this mean just take the standard KR2 cloth (5.85 oz) and cut astrip on 45 degree bias? X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Yes, it could mean that. BID, in itself, just refers to the weave of the cloth. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From Boeing757mech1@aol.com Tue Jan 13 17:10:29 2004 Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.4]) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AgZYD-0007KL-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:10:29 -0800 Received: from Boeing757mech1@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v36_r4.12.) id g.151.291e9782 (1320) for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:00:12 -0500 (EST) From: Boeing757mech1@aol.com Message-ID: <151.291e9782.2d35ee9b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:00:11 EST Subject: Re: KR>Regs To: krnet@mylist.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: 9.0 for Windows sub 5007 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Colin, The only thing I've questioned is the statment about flying an expermintal with out a PPL. All of the other stuff you wrote I hardy read. Not enough to comment on it anyway! So, as far as tail wheel endorsement my guess is that you would have to have it even for an experimental but I cant say for sure I would have to dig in the FAR's. Chris Theroux Gilbert, Az ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:01:00 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>No Fraying Message-ID: <400494CC.00000A.03628@Computer> References: <008201c3da2d$e0a1f600$ac97dccb@ralf> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 8 If you use the method of cutting your cloth on the bias, and wetting out = the cloth on plastic and then cutting it to a tape, you will have little to n= o fraying. I just finished doing this on my canopy and have very clean edge= s.=0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:02:49 -0500 From: "Bill Pleso" To: Subject: KR>Tailwheel talk Message-ID: <004401c3da3a$21582910$21cf6b44@pleso> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 ????? Am I understanding this correctly? That as a private pilot I can = fly a tailwheel airplane (with passengers) without a tailwheel = endorsement in my logbook as long as the plane is classified = "experimental"? Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:04:54 EST From: SkyVisionSC@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Gorilla Glue Message-ID: <19c.1f0e9bcd.2d35efb6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Hey Dan... Thanks for good information from a good fellow South Carolinian. I will indeed order T-88 from Wicks. Thanks again...Sherman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 17:47:40 -0800 From: "David Mikesell" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Tailwheel talk Message-ID: <000701c3da40$65d7a7e0$03fea8c0@davids> References: <004401c3da3a$21582910$21cf6b44@pleso> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Yep David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Pleso" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 5:02 PM Subject: KR>Tailwheel talk ????? Am I understanding this correctly? That as a private pilot I can fly a tailwheel airplane (with passengers) without a tailwheel endorsement in my logbook as long as the plane is classified "experimental"? Bill _______________________________________ to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:49:02 EST From: SkyVisionSC@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Conversion to AS5046 airfoil Message-ID: <80.30fde14.2d35fa0e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 Hey... It doesn't exactly sound very comfy when you're talking about building new wings and then say that you're gonna "take the plunge". Good luck!!! ......Sherman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:53:35 EST From: SkyVisionSC@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>OFF SUBJECT Message-ID: <1d8.186a799a.2d35fb1f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Hey Justin... It's been at least 100 years since I took the private test, but I do remember that there was a good bit of stuff on the test about the Airman's Information Manual (AIM) Bone up on the AIM, and weather reporting and you'll be golden. Best of luck and happy flying!...Sherman Spartanburg, S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:56:23 EST From: SkyVisionSC@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>GK 1 Aircraft Message-ID: <1db.186d5c9e.2d35fbc7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 I happened to see a magazine article about the A/C you're referring to, and it is indeed a KR. The engine mod for some reason gave the guy the idea to rename the craft after himself. Good flying...Sherman ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:11:04 -0600 From: David Lininger To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Auto engines Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113200529.00a37b30@mail.positech.net> In-Reply-To: <004101c3d6a9$2e5008c0$f2452141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 At 07:07 AM 1/9/04 -0500, you wrote: >Think of how many hours you drive your car trouble free, and when >maintained how it keeps just coming back for more. That's what I've been thinking about. We drive our cars up and down mountains with single ignition systems and don't think anything about it, but put that same engine in an airplane at the same altitude and we think we need dual ignition. I ran the previous car to 185,000 miles before trading, my pickup just hit that mark, and the current car probably isn't too far from it either (odometer quit at 144,321). I'm a long way from even thinking about an engine for my KR2, but I'm almost positive that it will be an automotive one. A friend has suggested that I look at small diesels! Of course, he used to have a diesel Rabbit, and currently owns two Ford diesels (pickup and van), so maybe he just has a "thing" for diesels! David Lininger kb0zke@positech.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:15:15 -0500 From: "Bill Pleso" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Tailwheel talk Message-ID: <007201c3da4c$a15ca980$21cf6b44@pleso> References: <004401c3da3a$21582910$21cf6b44@pleso> <000701c3da40$65d7a7e0$03fea8c0@davids> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 > Yep Now that's what I like....a simple straightforward answer that even I can understand. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:06:21 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Auto engines-vs Aero Engine Manifesto Message-ID: <20040114040621.45438.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113200529.00a37b30@mail.positech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17 Dave, Not trying to come across with anything likened to hostility... Please read the whole thread on these issues, It goes back for almost a week now.... I've decided, because this issue seems dear to so many out there, to write a Aero Engine vs. Auto Engine Manifesto of sorts, I plan on formatting this document on a part by part comparison of the differences between the 2 types of engines, and how those differences dramatically impact us, the KR builder community. In short, to reply directly to your comments Dave: When you are comparing the automobile engine application to an Aero engine application, you must consider the differences in environments that these engines are: designed for, fabricated in and operate in. Comparing mileage that's allegedly "trouble-free" is of no importance, because: 1. It doesn't have to operate in the same operating conditions. and 2. The impact of the engine failing while in service is without the life threatening, dire circumstances or predicament that an aero engine faces. i.e. If the auto engine fails, the operator coasts to the side of the road. Systems like redundant, independent ignition systems are a minimum safeguard for a powerplant used in this context. Now for the rest of the KRNetters who have been following this over week-long thread on Engines, I know many of you are just chomping at the bit to hit the Reply key. Please resist the temptation to do so, and be patient, as I am woking on this document fairly dilligently. The reason why I have decided to take on this task is in hopes that with my experience and background will benefit this community. I also feel that I am somewhat? qualified to do such a task because: 1.) I served as an US Army Helicopter: a.) Turbine Engine Mechanic b.) Crew Chief c.) Flight Test Mechanic d.) Aircraft Systems Technician 2.) I served as an US Army Fixed Wing: a.) Crew Chief b.) Maintenance Platoon Sergeant 3.) After the Service I was: a.) Heavy Duty Line Mechanic b.) Cylinder Head Machinist c.) Race Engine Builder 4.) After I finished my Degree I worked in: a.) Hydraulics, Rotors and Controls at MDHC b.) Controls Design on the MD520 Notar, MDX - MD900 Explorer at MDHC c.) Aircraft Structural Design on the Swearingen SJ-30, including the engine installation. d.) Aircraft Jet Engine Design, PW4000. I designed a Hollow Titanium First Stage Compressor Blade for the 777 (48,000 thrust engine) e.) Aircraft Structural Design on the F/A-18 C,D, E & F models, Main Landing Gear Pod Redesign Team on the C-17. Horizontal Redesign Team for the C-17. McDonnell Douglas Phantom Works Design Engineer. f.)Powertrain Design engineer for GM Powertrain's High Feature V-6 engine. g.)Senior Project Engineer for 2nd & 3rd Row Seating for the Trailblazer, Envoy and Bravada Program. h.)Lead Structural Design Engineer for Boeing Integrated Defense Systems back in Phantom Works. Considering that I have worked pretty much every conceivable perspective of this topic. I'm probably, maybe just a little qualified to author such a document? If not, is there another individual who would be willing to take on a task of this magnitude? --- David Lininger wrote: We drive our cars up and down mountains with single ignition systems and don't think anything about it, but put that same engine in an airplane at the same altitude and we think we need dual ignition. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 20:22:18 -0800 From: "Justin" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Spam Message-ID: <001401c3da55$ff5bfdc0$47da1818@computer> References: <005c01c3da35$3b3c8650$f2452141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 On the subject of spam... SPAM doesn't come from your internet service provider but what software you download that has "spyware" and what websites you go to that have "spyware". There are anti-spyware programs out there, and I have one. Any one intrested in it can e-mail me off net to expect a 10meg file sent via e-mail. Justin N116JW www.geocities.com/attngrabber14/Home ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:27 PM Subject: KR>Spam Mark, Isn't this guy who is trying to push PLAXO spamming the krnet? This happened once before this year and you had to block/bump him too. Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.html______________________________________ _ to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:27:34 -0500 From: intrepid1ac@juno.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>DAR's and inspections Message-ID: <20040113.232743.-202157.0.intrepid1ac@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 > "Dana Overall" writes: > The IFR equipment install must be TSO'd equipment to > legally use the system but supporting equipment such as > airspeed, altimeter, and so on, do not have to be TSO'd. This is a common impression, that avionics must be TSO'd. But which FAR, by number please, requires "TSO'd avionics" under Part-91 operations, IFR or VFR ?? None that I am aware of, but I may be wrong ( ...again :). The Narco MK-12, MK-12A, and MK-12B for instance, full of vacuum tubes and never certified by Narco to satisfy any TSO, were flown by us-oldtimers for many years in the hardest-IFR. Its VOR/LOC nav receiver and indicator were self-certified for IFR use by the pilot using any of several rather crude functional tests at designated time intervals. Some still fly these radios, which FAR prohibits this ? The more recent absurdities of Installation Certifications and TSO's applying to GPS navs are another bag of worms but do not retroactively include the VHF/UHF nav arena ( ie, VOR, LOC, and GS ) or the LF NDB/ADF. The com radio, OTOH, must meet the 0.025 mHz spacing requirements of the 21st century. While this is most easily done by pointing to a TSO, that TSO is not an all-inclusive requirement. See FAR 21.303 and the keywords =may= and =when required=. IMHO, always subject to error and willing to accept the FARs as-written. Art Cacella 1970 American AA-1 N6155L "Dinkie", flying 33 yrs. 1972 KR-1 plans, still not started on 2004 Sonerai-I, on gear w/engine, making wings 2004 Moni-m/G, on gear, mounting engine & wings 2004 Polly, mini-RV-6, mounting engine & gear 200? Intrepid, all metal canard pusher, 4-pl, parts Winston-Salem, NC ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:56:08 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>One BID / progress report Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040113235608.007f5250@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113152026.0138fd38@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <005001c3d94e$d934d2a0$75a0fea9@johnjane> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 20 >The KR2 manual frequently calls for one BID or 2 BID overlapping 1 inch. Is >this the same as the Aircraft Spruce fiberglass tapes (pg 31) in 2003-2004 >catalog? >>Larry Severson ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ BID, as Dan stated, is BIDirectional glass cloth with generally the same number of strands running at 90 degrees to each other. Sort of like a checker board pattern. When an application calles for 2 BID it is simply saying to use two layers of the BIDirectional cloth. Some applications, like the wing, say to use one or two layers of BID cut on the bias. When laid out correctly the strands run at 45 degrees to the span (spar) and that helps to take the twisting motion out of the wing. The overlap called for is to give the glass strength at the seam. When I laided up my wing skins I interlaced the one BID layer from the spar to the trail edge with the two BID layers that go from the spar and wrap around the lead edge and used a 2 inch overlap. Look at the first few pages of you plans again. It gives a very good description of this complete with drawings. Tapes are something totally different. They come in various widths and are woven so the edges don't unravel. I hate using them because they don't seem to take the resin as well and you have one edge that has a strand that sticks up above the surface and will need to be sanded after curing. Peel ply will help to eliminate the problem but it's a pain as far as I'm concerned. I used them a lot for the one clean straight edge when putting in windows and building up straight overlaps. If you're unsure of what glass cloth is acceptable just order the "KR cloth" from Wick's and remove the guess work. Questions? Progress report: Left wing is back on the KR with fuel in the tank. No leaks yet. Planning to pull the weak cylinder tomorrow (Wednesday) and have a look at the exhaust valve and hopefully resurface. Yes, I know, I should be able to do it without pulling the jug but that seems to me a bit like target shooting in the dark. I'll keep you posted. I should start getting some numbers for posting on my next few flights. I was told that my prop would be shipped no later than yesterday (Monday) but no word yet. I want to be flying (again) by this weekend. Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:17:32 -0800 From: larry severson To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Auto engines-vs Aero Engine Manifesto Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113220626.013bb398@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <20040114040621.45438.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040113200529.00a37b30@mail.positech.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 21 Scott: Based on what you say, there is only one engine that should be considered for aircraft applications, the Mazda 13B or 20. Assuming that a quality PSRU is placed on the only thing that can go wrong with the engine is failure of the apex seals. I had a 1972 Mazda that had the old failing apex seals. I was able drive the car 3000 miles with the seals failed. Initially, I wasn't sure that any thing was wrong, but I noticed that my gas mileage had dropped and my acceleration above 70 MPH decreased a bit. I would love an engine with this kind of reliability, but the light weight VW engine is well tested and a no brainer for the KR2. I would certainly go the rotary way before I would put in the weight of a Franklin 150HP, which is significantly heavier than the rotary system with no power gain and less reliable. > I've decided, because this issue seems dear to so >many out there, to write a Aero Engine vs. Auto Engine Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 10:33:09 +0100 From: "Alexander Birca (MD/RMD)" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>Auto engines-vs Aero Engine Manifesto Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 22 Scott, I don't want to offence you, please understand me right, just as a joke :-) Your problem is too much knowledge, you probably know that story about scientists, all the people spend their time to demonstrate that the mission is impossible, but one who didn't know about just did it successfully :-) We know the difference between REAL aero engine and auto conversion, of course you are right, it is not correct to compare mileage in the car with flying hours. There are many different thin points, but the main conclusion, they works and works nice, in our small experimental planes of course. BR, Alex -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Scott Cable Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:06 AM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Auto engines-vs Aero Engine Manifesto Dave, Not trying to come across with anything likened to hostility... Please read the whole thread on these issues, It goes back for almost a week now.... I've decided, because this issue seems dear to so many out there, to write a Aero Engine vs. Auto Engine Manifesto of sorts, I plan on formatting this document on a part by part comparison of the differences between the 2 types of engines, and how those differences dramatically impact us, the KR builder community. In short, to reply directly to your comments Dave: When you are comparing the automobile engine application to an Aero engine application, you must consider the differences in environments that these engines are: designed for, fabricated in and operate in. Comparing mileage that's allegedly "trouble-free" is of no importance, because: 1. It doesn't have to operate in the same operating conditions. and 2. The impact of the engine failing while in service is without the life threatening, dire circumstances or predicament that an aero engine faces. i.e. If the auto engine fails, the operator coasts to the side of the road. Systems like redundant, independent ignition systems are a minimum safeguard for a powerplant used in this context. Now for the rest of the KRNetters who have been following this over week-long thread on Engines, I know many of you are just chomping at the bit to hit the Reply key. Please resist the temptation to do so, and be patient, as I am woking on this document fairly dilligently. The reason why I have decided to take on this task is in hopes that with my experience and background will benefit this community. I also feel that I am somewhat? qualified to do such a task because: 1.) I served as an US Army Helicopter: a.) Turbine Engine Mechanic b.) Crew Chief c.) Flight Test Mechanic d.) Aircraft Systems Technician 2.) I served as an US Army Fixed Wing: a.) Crew Chief b.) Maintenance Platoon Sergeant 3.) After the Service I was: a.) Heavy Duty Line Mechanic b.) Cylinder Head Machinist c.) Race Engine Builder 4.) After I finished my Degree I worked in: a.) Hydraulics, Rotors and Controls at MDHC b.) Controls Design on the MD520 Notar, MDX - MD900 Explorer at MDHC c.) Aircraft Structural Design on the Swearingen SJ-30, including the engine installation. d.) Aircraft Jet Engine Design, PW4000. I designed a Hollow Titanium First Stage Compressor Blade for the 777 (48,000 thrust engine) e.) Aircraft Structural Design on the F/A-18 C,D, E & F models, Main Landing Gear Pod Redesign Team on the C-17. Horizontal Redesign Team for the C-17. McDonnell Douglas Phantom Works Design Engineer. f.)Powertrain Design engineer for GM Powertrain's High Feature V-6 engine. g.)Senior Project Engineer for 2nd & 3rd Row Seating for the Trailblazer, Envoy and Bravada Program. h.)Lead Structural Design Engineer for Boeing Integrated Defense Systems back in Phantom Works. Considering that I have worked pretty much every conceivable perspective of this topic. I'm probably, maybe just a little qualified to author such a document? If not, is there another individual who would be willing to take on a task of this magnitude? --- David Lininger wrote: We drive our cars up and down mountains with single ignition systems and don't think anything about it, but put that same engine in an airplane at the same altitude and we think we need dual ignition. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus _______________________________________ to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:51:19 +1000 From: "Gavin Donohoe" To: "KR builders and pilots" Subject: KR>Spar questions Message-ID: <001901c3da84$0de5ad40$174d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 23 Hi All, Wow I've had a big day!!!! I got about 10 hours done on my 2S.=20 Horizontal stab glassed on the top, Spars fitted and ready for gluing, = it's amazing how much time can be spent checking and double checking for = level. Cockpit floor made and ready to glue in once I establish where my = rudder pedals are going to be. Foam cut for the space under the floor, = and a heap of other little time consumers. A couple of questions. Up until now I've been using Epiglass Everdure for a timber sealer, this = needs several coats to fully seal the timber which is very time = consuming. What are most people using for a sealer ? I surmised that I = could just use 1 coat of resin to cover everything , How would this be? = resin only needs a little sanding and it can be glued on with the west = system but the Everdure can't be glued over. 1 bid doesn't look like it's strong enough on the horizontal stab!! Is = this right? am I reading the plans correctly ? I thought 2 layers would = be better but that's just me, I really don't know much about it. I hope to glue my spars in tomorrow. What is the best way to get glue = into all those joints while the spar is in there?? seems to me there is = a lot of filling to do (well not a lot really) but seems the easiest way = I can think of is to just wipe the glue in with my fingers and try to = get full penetration. Thanks in advance Gavin=20 Australia Home of Steve Irwin, model father (LOL) =20 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 1/8/04------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 280, Issue 1 *************************************