From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 6:21 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 280, Issue 3 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: ailerons (larry flesner) 2. Re: Hinges (larry flesner) 3. Re: Extruded Hinges (Scott Cable) 4. nylon bolts (larry severson) 5. Re: nylon bolts 6. Re: nylon bolts (John Shandor) 7. Re: Hinges - Aileron (Dan Heath) 8. Re: nylon bolts (Scott Cable) 9. aileron hinges (Oscar Zuniga) 10. Re: aileron hinges (Norm Seel) 11. Re: nylon bolts (larry flesner) 12. Re: nylon bolts (larry flesner) 13. Re: nylon bolts (gleone) 14. Re: nylon bolts (Joseph H Horton) 15. Re: ailerons (Joseph H Horton) 16. Sport Pilot as of December 23rd. (Dana Overall) 17. Re: DAR's and inspections 18. Re: Sport Pilot as of December 23rd. (David Mikesell) 19. A small tip for those masking off canopies (Dan Heath) 20. Re: Sport Pilot as of December 23rd. (Dana Overall) 21. Re: Sport Pilot as of December 23rd. (David Mikesell) 22. Re: DAR's and inspections (Dana Overall) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:16:24 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>ailerons Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114141624.007f2880@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114075255.00b5a008@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <005001c3da8c$553948c0$75a0fea9@johnjane> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 1 >I am planning my aileron installation. I understand the value of >putting >wax in the anchor nuts to prevent flox from closing up the access. I expect >that I will also have to fill the holes drilled in the wood also. My >question is, how do you locate the openings after the BID is placed over >the wood to lock it to the aileron/wing? >Larry Severson +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ One method you can use when floxing your anchor nuts is to hold them in place with nylon bolts or screws. They can be easily removed after the flox is cured. I'd suggest a bolt as it gives you better gripping power for removal than a screw slot in the head. I did have one break on me one time but was able to drill out the softer nylon without damaging the steel threads. Make sure to test them with a steel bolt/screw before closure to make sure the flox will hold. You don't want them to brake loose when inserting the steel screw to mount the hinge or you are up a creek. As for locating the wax filled hole under the BID, place a large black dot with a permanent marker on the hole/wax. It should be easily seen through the BID layer. When installing the spar in the aileron, don't clamp the aileron to a flat surface. It should have the same twist (washout) as the wing. If you do, the trailing edges won't match the cutout in the wing at each end. Don't ask me how I know. I had to cut the aileron skin just behind the spar, mount the aileron on the wing, clamp the trailing edges, make a flox bond where I made the cut and let it cure, then remove the aileron and do the BID cover. Are you still wondering why it took me 13 1/2 years to build my KR? Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:16:46 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Hinges Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114141646.007f4e80@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <001e01c3da9a$94c0fc00$f14d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 2 >What are the piano hinges for the ailerons made of? are they aluminium? >If it's aluminium are Wicks and Spruce the best places to get it? Gav +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The plans call for aluminium hinges. There are two types of hinges, extruded and rolled. The extruded type are the strongest and the ones commonly used. The rolled hinge is like the cheap one you buy at the hardware store. If you look closely at the metal that surrounds the pin you will see that they could be pulled open. The extruded hinge is "one piece" with no seams , brakes, etc. The extruded hinge is not cheap and yes, Wicks or AS&S would probably be your best bet for a supplier. You might check the archives. It seems this was discussed at length several years back and some would argue that a six foot rolled hinge would be more than strong enough and much cheaper. It's you choice. Progress report: My prop is being shipped today. I went to the airport to pull the cylinder with the exhaust leak but decided not to go that route. Before pulling the cylinder we looked at the valve and decided that lapping compound was going to be our best choice. We didn't improve the compression , 80/64, but also didn't see anything that warned of immenant failure so we closed things back up and I'm going to put some hours on it. I'll do a quick compression check every 5 hours or so and see how things develop before pulling the jug. I'm hoping to get my 40 hours flown off and signed off and then maybe dig into it deeper. Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:52:09 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Extruded Hinges Message-ID: <20040114205209.27957.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040114141646.007f4e80@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 Netters & Gavin, I just bought the Aluminum Extruded type to attach my Turtledeck to the fuselage. Wick's sells it for .71 an inch, or $51.12 for a 6 foot length( I bought 12 ft). I know Mark L. has done a pull test on the rolled hinge, but if it was my dollar, I'd spend it on the extruded hinge. Mainly because I know it won't open up from being loaded in fatigue... My .02 worth.... --- larry flesner wrote: > > >What are the piano hinges for the ailerons made of? > are they aluminium? > >If it's aluminium are Wicks and Spruce the best > places to get it? > >Gav > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:57:37 -0800 From: larry severson To: KRnet Subject: KR>nylon bolts Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114125601.013a9118@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040114141624.007f2880@pop.midwest.net> References: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114075255.00b5a008@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <005001c3da8c$553948c0$75a0fea9@johnjane> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 4 Where did you get the 8/32 nylon bolts? >One method you can use when floxing your anchor nuts is to hold >them in place with nylon bolts or screws. They can be easily >removed after the flox is cured. I'd suggest a bolt as it gives you >better gripping power for removal than a screw slot in the head. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 15:18:27 -0600 From: DPurduski@CaldwellMfgCo.com To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>nylon bolts Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 5 Would a shot of WD 40 as a release agent help removal? larry severson com> cc: Sent by: Subject: KR>nylon bolts krnet-bounces@myl ist.net 01/14/2004 02:57 PM Please respond to KRnet Where did you get the 8/32 nylon bolts? >One method you can use when floxing your anchor nuts is to hold >them in place with nylon bolts or screws. They can be easily >removed after the flox is cured. I'd suggest a bolt as it gives you >better gripping power for removal than a screw slot in the head. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com _______________________________________ to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:28:02 -0600 From: "John Shandor" To: Subject: Re: KR>nylon bolts Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 6 Go to your local hobby shop. I use nylon bolts to hold my RC wings on. = They have tons of sizes and head shapes i.e. flat, phillips, hex.. >>> larry2@socal.rr.com 01/14/04 02:57PM >>> Where did you get the 8/32 nylon bolts? >One method you can use when floxing your anchor nuts is to hold >them in place with nylon bolts or screws. They can be easily >removed after the flox is cured. I'd suggest a bolt as it gives you >better gripping power for removal than a screw slot in the head. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com=20 _______________________________________ to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net=20 please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:35:45 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Hinges - Aileron Message-ID: <4005C441.000009.01084@Computer> References: <001e01c3da9a$94c0fc00$f14d8690@oemcomputer> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 7 They are extruded aluminum and you can get them at either and I would not use anything else. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:45:14 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>nylon bolts Message-ID: <20040114224514.28580.qmail@web40808.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8 WD-40 would contaminate the composite. Use a real release agent or non-contaminating wax. Any Hardware store that carries the Hillman Line of fasteners has these nylon bolts. --- DPurduski@CaldwellMfgCo.com wrote: > > Would a shot of WD 40 as a release agent help > removal? larry severson Where did you get the 8/32 nylon bolts? One method you can use when floxing your anchor nuts is to hold them in place with nylon bolts or screws. They can be easily removed after the flox is cured. I'd suggest a bolt as it gives you better gripping power for removal than a screw slot in the head. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:52:41 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>aileron hinges Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 9 Larry asks- >how do you locate the openings after the BID is placed over the wood >to lock it to the aileron/wing? I've seen several ways. One simple way is to use pieces of wooden match sticks pushed through the BID layup into the wax that you've filled the nutplate with. Both the match stick and the wax come right out with a drill bit after cure. And for whoever asked about material for aileron hinges, it's aluminum. The raging debate (see archives) is whether extruded hinges must be used or if rolled hinges are OK. Mark Langford did some pull tests on this (see his website, I believe under his miscellaneous good info page) and either one should be fine. But no one that I know of is using brass hinges for this duty. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN. http://wine.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:12:31 -0800 From: "Norm Seel" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>aileron hinges Message-ID: <005101c3db0d$08acb560$e6c12304@dslverizon.net> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Next time you have a chance, check out the Cessna 150. I believe it uses rolled hinges. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 2:52 PM Subject: KR>aileron hinges > Larry asks- > > >how do you locate the openings after the BID is placed over the wood > >to lock it to the aileron/wing? > > I've seen several ways. One simple way is to use pieces of wooden match > sticks pushed through the BID layup into the wax that you've filled the > nutplate with. Both the match stick and the wax come right out with a drill > bit after cure. > > And for whoever asked about material for aileron hinges, it's aluminum. The > raging debate (see archives) is whether extruded hinges must be used or if > rolled hinges are OK. Mark Langford did some pull tests on this (see his > website, I believe under his miscellaneous good info page) and either one > should be fine. But no one that I know of is using brass hinges for this > duty. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN. > http://wine.msn.com/ > > > _______________________________________ > to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:06:42 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>nylon bolts Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114170642.007fa1d0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20040114125601.013a9118@pop-server.socal.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.20040114141624.007f2880@pop.midwest.net> <5.2.1.1.0.20040114075255.00b5a008@pop-server.socal.rr.com> <005001c3da8c$553948c0$75a0fea9@johnjane> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11 At 12:57 PM 1/14/04 -0800, you wrote: >Where did you get the 8/32 nylon bolts? >Larry Severson ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ any hardware store worth being called a hardware store should have them. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:06:55 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>nylon bolts Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040114170655.007fb710@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 > >Would a shot of WD 40 as a release agent help removal? > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It's easier to control the "application area" with a nylon bolt. Larry Flesner Carterville, Illinois ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 16:21:14 -0700 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" To: Subject: Re: KR>nylon bolts Message-ID: <4005CEEA.000006.02332@bce-p949w4at3vz> References: <20040114224514.28580.qmail@web40808.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 13 Actually, Turtle Paste Wax works well.=0D =0D "This is a great day for France!" --President Richard Nixon while attendi= ng Charles De Gaulle's funeral. Truer words were never spoken! =0D =0D -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: KRnet=0D Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:46:41 PM=0D To: KRnet=0D Subject: Re: KR>nylon bolts=0D =0D WD-40 would contaminate the composite. Use a real=0D release agent or non-contaminating wax.=0D Any Hardware store that carries the Hillman Line of=0D fasteners has these nylon bolts.=0D --- DPurduski@CaldwellMfgCo.com wrote:=0D >=0D > Would a shot of WD 40 as a release agent help=0D > removal?=0D larry severson=0D =0D Where did you get the 8/32 nylon bolts?=0D =0D One method you can use when floxing your anchor=0D nuts is to hold=0D them in place with nylon bolts or screws. They can=0D be easily removed after the flox is cured. I'd=0D suggest a bolt as it gives you better gripping power=0D for removal than a screw slot in the head.=0D =0D =0D =0D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0D Scott Cable=0D KR-2S # 735=0D Wright City, MO=0D s2cable1@yahoo.com=0D =0D __________________________________=0D Do you Yahoo!?=0D Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes=0D http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus=0D =0D _______________________________________=0D to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net=0D please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html=0D =0D =2E ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:50:37 -0500 From: Joseph H Horton To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>nylon bolts Message-ID: <20040114.185314.-652559.2.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 Sears Hardware On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 12:57:37 -0800 larry severson writes: > Where did you get the 8/32 nylon bolts? > > >One method you can use when floxing your anchor nuts is to hold > >them in place with nylon bolts or screws. They can be easily > >removed after the flox is cured. I'd suggest a bolt as it gives > you > >better gripping power for removal than a screw slot in the head. > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > > _______________________________________ > to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > Joe Horton Coopersburg, Pa. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:43:43 -0500 From: Joseph H Horton To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>ailerons Message-ID: <20040114.185314.-652559.1.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 Larry, I just finished this work a couple weeks ago. The short of it is the glass is transparent and I could see the hole locations to open them up. Also I had match drilled the hing to the spar and could have lined it up again and dimpled through the hing holes to find the holes in the spar-- Good Luck -- Joe Horton On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 07:56:57 -0800 larry severson writes: > I am planning my aileron installation. I understand the value of > putting > wax in the anchor nuts to prevent flox from closing up the access. I > expect > that I will also have to fill the holes drilled in the wood also. My > > question is, how do you locate the openings after the BID is placed > over > the wood to lock it to the aileron/wing? > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > > _______________________________________ > to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > Joe Horton Coopersburg, Pa. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:05:02 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Sport Pilot as of December 23rd. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 OK, I know this is not KR but I do know there are several members of this list who have lost their medicals and are anxiously awaiting the final draft of the Sport Pilot Certificate. It came out of the rules part of the process on December 23. It is now open for another 90 days. I spent a couple hours this evening reading various parts of the proposal after the FAA studied recommendations from the Aviation Rule Making Advisory Committee. It seems they are once again talking out of both side of their mouths. As the first sentence says, "has reason to know of any medical condition that would affect his or her ability to operate a light-sport aircraft". This is a whole lot of gray area. They then go into how they cannot prove a medical would enhance safety based on quantitative data. At the end however, they say the following: "Proposed section 17 of SFAR 89 consists of a table that sets forth the circumstances under which a medical deficiency would preclude a student pilot or sport pilot from operating a light-sport aircraft. These provisions would be consistent with the prohibitions against operating with a medical deficiency specified in § 61.53". I have included those parts of the table, which I found something like 80 pages past this point, listed as B & C below. B reinterates the "has reason to know............affect ability" sentence. The C part says if you do not have a drivers license,but you have a medical issued under 67.14, then the "have reason to know........unable to meet requirements of 3rd. class" come into play. It is interested to note, I haven't found a thing in there that says if you have had a 3rd. class but lost it phrase. I would feel certain, as encompassing as this document is, typical legal document with cost/death analysis, that it is addressed somewhere. Keep you hopes up!! Cut and pastes follow: Under the proposal if a pilot knows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would affect his or her ability to operate a light-sport aircraft, then the pilot would have to refrain from acting as a pilot in command. Data available in the National Aviation Safety Data Analysis Center (NASDAC) accident database indicates that a pilots medical condition is rarely a causal factor in general aviation accidents. A review of balloon and glider accidents contained in that database from 1990 to 2000 revealed that only two accidents occurred because of a pilot’s medical condition. The absence of any medical certificate requirement for persons operating balloons and gliders has not resulted in a demonstrated reduction in safety. The ARAC, in its findings, provided accident summary data from 1986 through 1992 indicating that the percentage of aviation accidents involving medical causal factors is lower for those activities that do not require medical certificates than for those activities that do. During this 7-year timeframe, the ARAC indicates there were 761 accidents in lighter-than-air aircraft and gliders—operations that do not require airman medical certification. Only one of the 761 accidents showed a medical cause, according to ARAC (slightly more than one-tenth of one percent of total accidents). For general aviation operations requiring airman medical certification, ARAC indicates there were 46,976 total accidents, 99 of which (slightly more than one-fifth of one percent) showed a medical cause. The FAA believes, therefore, that medical conditions are not a significant cause of accidents in aircraft that are used for sport and recreational purposes. Copies of the following items are filed in the docket for this rulemaking: examples of medical questions asked on selected U.S. driver’s license application forms and on FAA Form 8500-8; NASDAC accident data; and ARAC’s final recommendation containing it’s accident data findings. Proposed section 17 of SFAR 89 consists of a table that sets forth the circumstances under which a medical deficiency would preclude a student pilot or sport pilot from operating a light-sport aircraft. These provisions would be consistent with the prohibitions against operating with a medical deficiency specified in § 61.53. (b) Other than a glider or balloon, (1)You hold a U.S. driver’s license (regardless of whether you hold an airman medical certificate issued under 14 CFR part 67), You must not act as pilot in command of the aircraft if you know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner. (c) Other than a glider or balloon, (1) You hold an airman medical certificate issued under 14 CFR part 67, but don’t hold a U.S. driver’s license, (i) You must not act as pilot in command of the aircraft if:(A) You know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to meet the requirements of at least a third-class medical certificate; or(B) You are taking medication or receiving other treatment for a medical condition that results in you being unable to meet the requirements of at least a third-class medical certificate. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ There are now three new levels of MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Learn more. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:13:48 EST From: JSMONDAY@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>DAR's and inspections Message-ID: <8b.13d9cb0.2d37434c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 17 So Dana.. that seems to take care of the instruments and avionics > what else as far as the physical airplane engine and controls??? I know about the heated Pitot but anything else we should be aware of??? Thanks, John S. Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA Art, while technically correct, the use of non TSO's equipment for IFR use is very restricted. Now, I am not referring to airspeed, altimeter and so on. This equipment is definitely non TSO'd proper. Ref. FAR 91.205 Required. Ref. FAR 61.57 (c) Required. Ref. FAR 61.3 (e) The first three show IFR qualifications, required equipent and currency requirements. AC 20-138 points towards your answer. (FAA Advisory Circular 20-138) I would also encourgage anyone interested to go to the following website: http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/_borders/IFR%20equipment.pdf Now the nuts and bolts.(FAA Advisory Circular 20-138) The "box" used for primary navigation in the IFR environment must meet the requirements of TSO'd equipment. While technically not being TSO'd does not exclude you from using the equipment. However, it must meet the requirements of TSO certification. This is not just satisfying the judgement of the pilot but the actual requirements of TSO certification. This would probably only come into play if ramp checked, violated or involved in some type of incident. The simple VOR requirement check at a compass check painted on a ramp would not satisfy the TSO requirement for enroute navigation. Only after the unit had been "self certified" could a required NAV check performed this way be appropiate for use in the system. As for using a NAV for ILS operations, you must certify a one dot deviation equates to the allowable deviation vertically at the outer marker, middle marker and inner marker. For some reason the distance of 10 feet floats around in my coffee induced thinking this early. While doable, I seriously doubt an individual flyer would be able to accomplish the requirements. A GPS must automatically transition sinsitivity between enroute, terminal and approach. In addition, it must possess the ability to self check it's signal reception and automatically identify the pilot of potential signal discrepancies. Once again, this does not apply to instruments not specifically used with the appropriate "ground facilities". So is TSO'd equipment required for IFR operation..........No. Is it practical to be able to self certify non TSO'd equipment? That's your call, but I don't have the ability nor do I know anyone with the ability to perform all the checks required to satisfy the requirements. >>If the box was capable of meeting the requirements of the TSO, the manufacturer would sell it as TSO'd so he had access to the type certificated aircraft market. And I have difficulty believing a hobbyist will cobble together a homebuilt GPS that meets all the TSO. << Dana Overall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 17:30:13 -0800 From: "David Mikesell" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Sport Pilot as of December 23rd. Message-ID: <002701c3db07$217b7960$03fea8c0@davids> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 The one thing I do know for sure about this is the Oakland FSDO office has told me that if you lost your medical for health reasons you will not be able to get a sport pilot license. If you were denied a medical for health issues you will not be able to get a sport pilot license. It seems the FAA has found and has closed the loop hole a lot of pilots who had lost or had been refused a medical were planning to use to get another license. Even though a medical is not required if you lost or were refused then that is already in the system and therefore will show up when application is turned in and reviewed and that they can also bring charges against the pilot attempting this route for as you shown in your cut and paste that if a pilot knows he has a medical condition he may not operate the aircraft as a pilot and in making the application for sport pilot license with a known medical conditon would be fraud and all FAA ratings and license will be revoked not suspended. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com .html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:40:10 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>A small tip for those masking off canopies Message-ID: <4005EF7A.000019.01084@Computer> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 19 http://kr-builder.org/MaskingTip/index.html =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:56:39 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Sport Pilot as of December 23rd. Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 20 While I am certainly not doubting the Oakland FSDO told you that, it is still open for rule changes. However, what it says is: (b) Other than a glider or balloon, (1)You hold a U.S. driver’s license (regardless of whether you hold an airman medical certificate issued under 14 CFR part 67), You must not act as pilot in command of the aircraft if you know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner. If you hold a medical or have had one lost, that is certainly another question. That is a very large gray area to deal in. I had a guy stop by my shop yesterday who is on 14 different pills, including blood pressure medication. He has developed a cough so strong he said he sometimes passes out. He has an expired 2nd. class medical. He wants to start flying again:-( Now, the question is what qualitative evidence would preclude him from saying, "I can control my coughing with cough drops and the blood pressure medicine controls my 165/110 blood pressure"? I'm not arguing the stance of your FSDO, instead I am arguing the ambiguities present in, what I am certain is, a nearly finished draft. I haven't spent a lot of time following Sport Pilot so I know enough to be dangerous. I wouldn't dare try and influence anyone with my lack of knowledge on the subject. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up — fast & reliable Internet access with prime features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:04:49 -0800 From: "David Mikesell" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Sport Pilot as of December 23rd. Message-ID: <004501c3db0b$f6106a60$03fea8c0@davids> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 21 I think the ambiguities are intentional that way every office can do its own determinations. Like the critirea difference getting your airworthiness from the FAA or a DAR..... David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 5:56 PM Subject: Re: KR>Sport Pilot as of December 23rd. > While I am certainly not doubting the Oakland FSDO told you that, it is > still open for rule changes. > > However, what it says is: > > (b) Other than a glider or balloon, (1)You hold a U.S. driver's license > (regardless of whether you hold an airman medical certificate issued under > 14 CFR part 67), You must not act as pilot in command of the aircraft if you > know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make you > unable to operate the aircraft in a safe manner. > > If you hold a medical or have had one lost, that is certainly another > question. > > That is a very large gray area to deal in. I had a guy stop by my shop > yesterday who is on 14 different pills, including blood pressure medication. > He has developed a cough so strong he said he sometimes passes out. He > has an expired 2nd. class medical. He wants to start flying again:-( Now, > the question is what qualitative evidence would preclude him from saying, "I > can control my coughing with cough drops and the blood pressure medicine > controls my 165/110 blood pressure"? > > I'm not arguing the stance of your FSDO, instead I am arguing the > ambiguities present in, what I am certain is, a nearly finished draft. > > I haven't spent a lot of time following Sport Pilot so I know enough to be > dangerous. I wouldn't dare try and influence anyone with my lack of > knowledge on the subject. > > > > Dana Overall > 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host > Richmond, KY > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > _________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up - fast & reliable Internet access with prime > features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 > > > _______________________________________ > to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:10:32 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>DAR's and inspections Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 22 John, I've left the entire text of my note and yours for reference. No, that's about it. It really is not an issue to have a legal, IFR, experimental class airplane. Just make sure you go to the required equipment list and make sure you have everything on board. Remember, your VOR head must be checked and logged by you the pilot, pitot/static system checked, and if transponder equipped, transponder checked by a certified shop as per the regs. There is a rather humorous requirement. The regs say unless a moral pilot can safely clean the windscreen without adversely affecting the safe operation of the airplane, then a defroster is required. How about the "immoral pilot".......guess it wouldn't apply to him:-) No, I didn't find this, it was pointed out by someone else. Once again, with that said, my own personnal opinion is the KR is not an acceptable IFR platform. Others may feel differently on the issue. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive >From: JSMONDAY@aol.com >Reply-To: KRnet >To: krnet@mylist.net >Subject: Re: KR>DAR's and inspections >Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:13:48 EST > >So Dana.. that seems to take care of the instruments and avionics > what >else >as far as the physical airplane engine and controls??? > >I know about the heated Pitot but anything else we should be aware of??? > >Thanks, >John S. Monday >KR2S >Laguna Beach, CA > > > >Art, while technically correct, the use of non TSO's equipment for IFR use >is very restricted. Now, I am not referring to airspeed, altimeter and so >on. This equipment is definitely non TSO'd proper. > >Ref. FAR 91.205 > >Required. Ref. FAR 61.57 (c) > >Required. Ref. FAR 61.3 (e) > >The first three show IFR qualifications, required equipent and currency >requirements. AC 20-138 points towards your answer. > >(FAA Advisory Circular 20-138) > >I would also encourgage anyone interested to go to the following website: > >http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/_borders/IFR%20equipment.pdf > >Now the nuts and bolts.(FAA Advisory Circular 20-138) > >The "box" used for primary navigation in the IFR environment must meet the >requirements of TSO'd equipment. While technically not being TSO'd does >not >exclude you from using the equipment. However, it must meet the >requirements of TSO certification. This is not just satisfying the >judgement of the pilot but the actual requirements of TSO certification. >This would probably only come into play if ramp checked, violated or >involved in some type of incident. The simple VOR requirement check at a >compass check painted on a ramp would not satisfy the TSO requirement for >enroute navigation. Only after the unit had been "self certified" could a >required NAV check performed this way be appropiate for use in the system. >As for using a NAV for ILS operations, you must certify a one dot deviation >equates to the allowable deviation vertically at the outer marker, middle >marker and inner marker. For some reason the distance of 10 feet floats >around in my coffee induced thinking this early. While doable, I seriously >doubt an individual flyer would be able to accomplish the requirements. A >GPS must automatically transition sinsitivity between enroute, terminal and >approach. In addition, it must possess the ability to self check it's >signal reception and automatically identify the pilot of potential signal >discrepancies. Once again, this does not apply to instruments not >specifically used with the appropriate "ground facilities". > >So is TSO'd equipment required for IFR operation..........No. Is it >practical to be able to self certify non TSO'd equipment? That's your >call, >but I don't have the ability nor do I know anyone with the ability to >perform all the checks required to satisfy the requirements. > > > >>If the box was capable of meeting the requirements of the TSO, the >manufacturer would sell it as TSO'd so he had access to the type >certificated aircraft market. And I have difficulty believing a >hobbyist will cobble together a homebuilt GPS that meets all the TSO. << > > > > >Dana Overall >_______________________________________ >to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _________________________________________________________________ Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed experience. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 280, Issue 3 *************************************