From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:00 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 285, Issue 2 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Re: Get it certified outside U.S.territory / Entering eur opean airspace (Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA) 2. Undercarriage (=?iso-8859-1?q?Daren=20Cogdon?=) 3. Re: Tailwheel Endorsement (Kenneth B. Jones) 4. Re: Question for the group (Bernard McLean Sr) 5. RE: rear spar HELP (francis fenlason) 6. Re: Rand Wingskins (Scott Cable) 7. Re: Rand Wingskins (Orma Robbins) 8. firewall. (Harold Woods) 9. Re: Rand Wingskins 10. Re: WAF'S OVER SIZED BOLTS (Ron Eason) 11. How to inspect the wings? (Serge F. Vidal) 12. Rig Pin Locations? (Scott Cable) 13. How to inspect the wings? (larry flesner) 14. Rig Pin Locations? (larry flesner) 15. Re: WAF'S OVER SIZED BOLTS (Joseph H. Horton) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:08:19 +0100 From: Kogelmann Christian - OS ETA To: "'serge.vidal@ate-international.com'" , 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> Re: Get it certified outside U.S.territory / Entering eur opean airspace Message-ID: <9D054CEF43F1C243A279E5435E971746017D60BE@sviemxs02.gate01.skylines.global> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 Ralf, Serge,=20 I know Herbert F=FCrle in Germany, he is building a KR-2S and I believe = his link is on Mark Langford's page. Herbert is not messing with the LBA+OUV either, instead he is going to = the French authority. For more info on the French authorities you should contact him = directly, his e-mail address is also on Mark's page. I am going through a very painful certification process in Austria.=20 I've started flying my KR-2S in Aug 02 and after 35 hours (and various = test protocols) hope to get the noise certificate (a "professor" from the = OUV will do the measurements in LOLW) in March/April and the final = Certificate in spring this year.... Servus Christian OE-VPD http://www.members.aon.at/oevpd -----Original Message----- From: Serge F. Vidal [mailto:serge.vidal@ate-international.com] Sent: Montag, 19. J=E4nner 2004 09:47 To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> Re: Get it certified outside U.S.territory / Entering european airspace The solution is probably Denmark. Good luck,keep us posted. Serge Vidal I will try this:=20 a.) Ship it to the U.S. b.) Get it certified on U.S. territory c.) Ship it back to germany d.) fly it - or -=20 a.) Ship it to denmark ( where it was previously registered and flown ) = - just a 4 hour drive=20 b.) register again with the danish aviation administration c.) fly back home The interesting part for you ( the group ) will be how various euopean countries deal with a KR2 experimental airplane entering their = airspace. I will try to describe this briefly after I collected all these = informations from the european countries.=20 If anybody has some experience, I would appreciate to hear about, you = can also contact me at simon@icwn.com Thanks Ralf _______________________________________ to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html _______________________________________ to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:24:13 +0000 (GMT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Daren=20Cogdon?= To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Undercarriage Message-ID: <20040119092413.21800.qmail@web25105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 2 Hi there I'm working on a Spitfire replica project that will include various construction characteristics of the KR series (basically similar airframe construction methods). My one big decision is how to do the undercarriage. Most of you will know that the Spitfire's main undercarriage retract out towards the wingtips and sweep back at an angle. This may be quite complicated to build for a homebuilt project, and my original idea was to include a similar set-up as used on the KR-1. My question is this: How thick is the wing centre section, and how far do the wheels (and the legs) project from the bottom of the wing? I read an article on Ken Rand's prototype, which states that the 8" diameter wheels only protrude about 1 1/4 inches, which would be ideal. Any more than, say, two inches would look really wrong!! Any help would be useful. Daren --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger NowFrom DanRH@alltel.net Mon Jan 19 03:41:39 2004 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AiXml-000JPu-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 03:41:39 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.235]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20040119113140.PURI25194.mta02-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:31:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <400BC025.000001.03312@Computer> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:31:49 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <20040119010640.74078.qmail@web21201.mail.yahoo.com> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Post of this week Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: RE: How far is it from the bottom of your panel to the floor?=0D =0D The bottom of the panel is 18.5" off the floor. I am 5'9" and there is n= o padding on the seats, and our seats are made to allow us to sit about 1" = off the bottom of the floor. There is a section on the site on how we made t= he seats. With the seat cushions, there is not as much clearance because t= he back cushion pushes you a little more forward in the cockpit.=0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Mon Jan 19 03:47:17 2004 Received: from mta01.alltel.net ([166.102.165.143] helo=mta01-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AiXsD-000JUi-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 03:47:17 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.235]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20040119113718.ONYL11582.mta01-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:37:18 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <400BC178.000003.03312@Computer> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:37:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: <20040119092413.21800.qmail@web25105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: X-CNT: ; X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Undercarriage - KR1 to look like a Spitfire? Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Daren,=0D =0D The gear moves only back, not out. There is quite a bit of it protruding from the wing and I don't think it is what you are looking for. Someone made a KR2 using motorcycle parts which could more likely be adapted to w= hat you want. I am sure that someone on the net knows who that person and KR= 2 is. The plane was sold recently but I also never knew who bought it. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20From DanRH@alltel.net Mon Jan 19 04:01:05 2004 Received: from mta02.alltel.net ([166.102.165.144] helo=mta02-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AiY5Z-000Jak-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 04:01:05 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.95.235]) by mta02-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20040119115106.PYMK25194.mta02-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:51:06 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <400BC4B4.000005.03312@Computer> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:51:16 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Content-Type: Text/Plain X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: X-FID: PLAINTXT-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: 3.0 X-CNT: ; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>WAF'S OVER SIZED BOLTS - reaming the holes up to a 7/16 (AN7), X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: If it were my plane, I would make new ones. If I didn't, I would worry ab= out it forever, even if it wouldn't make any difference. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 07:12:37 -0500 From: "Kenneth B. Jones" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Tailwheel Endorsement Message-ID: <017201c3de85$87bbe300$8d7ba8c0@oemcomputer> References: <12923191.1073962842430.JavaMail.root@bert.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Precedence: list Message: 3 It's clear that a tailwhell endorsement is not required by FAR part 61.31 if you hold a pilot certificate, but under certain circumstances, without one, you could be violated under part 91.13. Recent flight experience of part 61.57 certainly applies. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Youngblood" To: "Brian Kraut" ; "KRnet" Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:48 AM Subject: Re: KR>Tailwheel Endorsement > My opinion on this topic is that there seems to be a loophole with > respect to the tailweel endorsement with an Experimental aircraft. I > think this a result of allowing an "Experimental" aircraft to be > somthing entirely new, where their may not be a flying example of > such a craft. For example, assume someone developed a vertical > takeoff and landing aircraft using some new technology. Then you > could build it and fly it and be within the FARS -- Experimental. > > However, since the KR is a conventional aircraft, and the "intent" of > the regulation on tailwheel aircraft is for the pilots safety, I think > it is not too much of a leap to assume that it is in your best > interest to have an up to date tailwheel endorsement in your logbook > before flying. > > Also a pilot attempting to maintain "currency" in a KR with a > tailwheel should observe the regulations with respect to full stop > landings. I'm not saying that you have to, but if you do, there would > be no question in the case of an accident over the FAR's. > > If you do have an incident in your KR, in my opinion, you want to be > in as much a position of strength as possible. If you have your > tailwheel endorsement, and you have followed flight advisor > recommendation on transition training, you will be seen as a careful > pilot. And that would in my opinion help you out in case of some > other human error that could happen. > > Thats just my 2 cents. > > What this thread sounds like is the following: > > "Hey, it looks like there is a loophole that will save me about $700 > on flight training before I fly my KR". > > Probably. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 07:52:03 -0600 From: Bernard McLean Sr To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Question for the group Message-ID: <400BE103.7090206@verizon.net> References: <400B1417.7000306@verizon.net> <400B1984.00000B.01288@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Dan; I'm building a 2 as well. Thanks for your opinion on the wood and X members. Bernie McLean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:05:40 -0600 From: "francis fenlason" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>rear spar HELP Message-ID: <000001c3de95$55a0a2b0$7d03efd8@primelibrary> In-Reply-To: <000101c3ddda$2e18eba0$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Dene: Hello I think you will find that the CG remains very close to where it was originally. What will move back is your center of lift. The CG may still be within limits but you would need to check. Moving the Center of lift rearward would increase the work load of your horizontal stabilizer as it will need to provide more down pressure to balance your load /lift. I'm not saying it couldn't or shouldn't be done just realize what he results will be and adjust accordingly. Russ Breckenridge, MN asiruss@702com.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 06:54:49 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Rand Wingskins Message-ID: <20040119145449.10249.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <005701c3de43$5ad9bca0$5831ca42@d3t2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6 I believe that the Diehl skins are over Clark Foam and use Vinyl Ester Resin. The Rand Skins are made a a small shop next to Scaled Composites out of Epoxy with a nomex-honeycomb core. Seeing how you wouldn't have any compatablity issues between Vinyl-Ester and Epoxy... My choice would be the Rand-Robinson Skins. My only wish about the RR skins? Wish they came in the AS5046 Airfoil instead of the RAF48. Ahhh, well that's a whole new bag of worms .... > > how about a discussion on the pros and cons of > rand Robinson wing skins vs > > dan diehls- ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:39:45 -0500 From: "Orma Robbins" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Rand Wingskins Message-ID: <000c01c3dea2$77df7fb0$93c34944@ROBBINS1> References: <20040119145449.10249.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 rand Robinson wing skins vs > > dan diehls- Unless the prices have changed a lot over the years, the difference in cost is significant Orma L. Robbins Orma@aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:49:02 -0500 From: "Harold Woods" To: Subject: KR>firewall. Message-ID: <006c01c3dea3$c3217090$1a997018@HAROLD> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 I got permission from MOT Canada in Toronto to use .025 series 400 stainless as a firewall directly onto the front wooden fuselage on my KR. No asbestos or fibrefrax required. Harold Woods Orillia,ON> Canada haroldwoods@rogers.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:25:56 EST From: JSMONDAY@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Rand Wingskins Message-ID: <1da.18b716c6.2d3d5f14@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 RR wingskins come with stub wings as well. Dan Diehl's don't unless something has changed. Stub skins are available from Les Palmer. Thanks, John S. Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:46:56 -0600 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>WAF'S OVER SIZED BOLTS Message-ID: <00c701c3deab$d97408a0$6501a8c0@Administration> References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Structurally you could install a vertical backup bar on each WAF which would strengthen the joint and pass inspection. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 8:04 PM Subject: KR>WAF'S OVER SIZED BOLTS > Guys, > > When I drilled up my WAF'S the tips of the forward spars were in > different places. I need to bring the right wing tip forward and the > left wing tip aft. I > was thinking about taking the bolts (AN6's) out of the upper and lower attach > fittings on the rear face of the forward spar, moving them to where > the should > be and, reaming the holes up to a 7/16 (AN7), which should clean up > any mismatch. This would put me below the 2D minimum for edge distance > by .072 in. > > Chris Theroux > Gilbert, AZ > _______________________________________ > to UNSUBSCRIBE from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:11:36 +0100 From: "Serge F. Vidal" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>How to inspect the wings? Message-ID: <000701c3deaf$4c2126f0$2c0101c0@ate.com> In-Reply-To: <400BC4B4.000005.03312@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 I'm now having a good idea of how to register my South African built KR2 in France. The main issue will be to prove them that the primary structure is sound. Now, this means inspecting the wing spars. The guys who will do the inspection want me to propose a convincing way to do so. I proposed to load the wings to design load (piling sandbags). He does not like it, says it's a good way to create problems rather than solving them. Any ideas? Serge Vidal KR2 ZS-WEC Tunis, Tunisia (pilot) Orleans, France (aircraft) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:00:54 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Rig Pin Locations? Message-ID: <20040119180054.68491.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 KRNetters, What did the flying KR's do to rig the control surfaces? Did you just adjust the control surfaces for the specified amount of travel? Re-verify Rig at annual, accomplished through a surface travel check? Has anyone determined the neutral point, then drilled the bellcranks for rig pins? If so, where were the holes located and for what size? 3/16ths 1/4's???? I'm thinking on several levels here, first one being a repeatable, time-saving rigging process, but also, the rig pins could have "Remove Before Flight" flags attached to them that would enable the pins to be used as gust locks. ===== Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:05:07 -0600 From: larry flesner To: serge.vidal@ate-international.com,KRnet Subject: KR>How to inspect the wings? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040119120507.00814100@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <000701c3deaf$4c2126f0$2c0101c0@ate.com> References: <400BC4B4.000005.03312@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 >The guys who will do the inspection want me to propose a convincing way >to do so. I proposed to load the wings to design load (piling >sandbags). He does not like it, says it's a good way to create problems >rather than solving them. Serge Vidal ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Serge, Would they accept the reading of a "G" meter. Install one, go out and pull the G's they want, and that should prove the point. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:21:41 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>Rig Pin Locations? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040119122141.00817bd0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <20040119180054.68491.qmail@web40802.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 14 >KRNetters, > What did the flying KR's do to rig the control >surfaces? >Scott Cable >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Scott, I think I understand what you mean by "rig pins" but they really aren't necessary. The KR is a "simple" machine. Do your best to keep it that way. I used blocks of wood to clamp the ailerons at neutral to make the course adjustments, tightened the cables, and then used my digital level clamped to the ailerons to verify proper travel. Basiclly the same on the elevator. I also used the digital level to set my hard stops for the control stick at the travel limits. An inexpensive angle meter will accomplish the same thing. I liked the digital level because I could read it at a distance and I could do repeated checks while in the process of making the adjustments. I wasn't having to run back and forth. For the rudder I made a full scale drawing, measured the degrees of travel in inches at the trail edge, then transfered this measurement to the actual rudder to check the travel. If anything is ever changed you can use the same process to re-adjust or verify. Think simple! :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:16:19 -0500 From: "Joseph H. Horton" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>WAF'S OVER SIZED BOLTS Message-ID: <20040119.133733.3816.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15 > When I drilled up my WAF'S the tips of the forward spars were in > different > places. I need to bring the right wing tip forward and the left wing > tip aft. I > was thinking about taking the bolts (AN6's) out of the upper and > lower attach > fittings on the rear face of the forward spar, moving them to where > the should > be and, reaming the holes up to a 7/16 (AN7), which should clean up > any > mismatch. This would put me below the 2D minimum for edge distance > by .072 in. > > Chris Theroux > Gilbert, AZ Chris, When I built my wings this fall I had one hole that didn't line up perfect. I ordered in some grade 8-- 10 mm bolts and reamed to fix the hole. It only changed it by a few thousandth's. Now I have one different but clearly marked. This could be an option as it does not take much to move the tip of the spar around instead of risking the loss of edge metal Joe Horton joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 285, Issue 2 *************************************