From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 5:44 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 319, Issue 3 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Ground handling (Colin & Bev Rainey) 2. RE: Murphy and Me did OK this time (Stephen Jacobs) 3. Re: Ground handling (larry severson) 4. Re: First flight for low time pilot (long) 5. Re: bondo (it comes like a tube of tooth paste (Bob Stone) 6. Re: Hardware list 7. RE: Ground handling (Stephen Jacobs) 8. RE: First flight for low time pilot (long) (Michael Geoghegan) 9. hardware (Steve and Lori McGee) 10. Kr2s plans and ply wood for sale 11. KR - Larry's Lady reply (even longer ) (Stephen Jacobs) 12. Re: 0200 ENGINE MOUNTS (Ross Evans) 13. Re: Kr2s plans and ply wood for sale (David Mikesell) 14. Fuse Facet Pump ? (Mark Jones) 15. backup elect.system (larry flesner) 16. correct use of hardware (larry flesner) 17. Re: pencil rubber (larry flesner) 18. Re: Fuse Facet Pump ? (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:12:20 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Ground handling Message-ID: <011301c3f980$2d3e3ed0$f2452141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 1 I am sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with the theories = presented that are saying if you get it up go fly, meaning the tail. = Honestly gentlemen, and I do not mean this in a hurtful way, but if you = are that precarious on the main wheels during transition, then you need = ALOT more practice with that aircraft because you don't have sufficient = skill to fly it. I fail to understand why so many inexperienced pilots = with the KR are not paying close attention to someone who has over 1000 = hours and is flying his KR now successfully, who did just that. Just = taxiing around for 1/2 an hour is just long enough to give one a false = sense of security in the ease of ground handling. There is NO = difference between high speed taxiing down the runway, and wheel landing = in a cross wind. Both require proficiency of the aircraft. It is much = better to get it in a controlled way at slower speeds closer to = stopping, and have a minor ground loop, than to have the same lack of = proficiency, and attempt a cross wind landing, or have a normal landing = get away form you and roll the plane over, possibly getting = injured/maybe destroying your plane. Larry Flesner approached every = aspect of his test program so far with very deliberate purpose and = caution of a seasoned pilot. Although I have more hours than Larry, I = find myself learning a great deal from his experience, and his approach = to testing his KR. I too intend on doing significant ground handling = testing, to the point of becoming almost bored with the way the KR = handles on the ground so that there are no surprises during transition = whatever the winds are. It is tragic that 20% of our flying is takeoffs = and landings, yet we have nearly 90% of our accidents and incidents = during this phase of flight. As a CFI a make at least half of the = training time spent with a student devoted to takeoffs and landings, no = matter what the rating they are attempting to acquire. What about = finding out if your wheel alignment was correct, just as one example. It = would be much better to find out it is off, by gently lifting the tail, = finding the plane trying to consistently turn to one side and then, = begin investigating the cause. If one were to go ahead with the takeoff = and attribute this to P-factor and torque, he might have a very swift = and catastrophic end to his first flight. I intend to devote a total of = 10 hours of time to ground handling proficiency as part of my flight = testing program. If you are not proficient in wheel landing, or tail up = taxiing, then this is where you need to devote some time becoming = proficient, not flying straight level, and calling yourself a KR driver. = From a safety standpoint there should never be any phase of any flight = that relies on luck, or is in question. If that's the case it is time = to land and get help. And thank you Larry for the great example.=20 Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htmlFrom humidors@gmavt.net Sun Feb 22 11:51:48 2004 Received: from ns2.greenmountainaccess.net ([65.19.68.31] helo=dix.greenmountainaccess.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1)id 1Auzdk-000G5G-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:51:48 -0800 Received: (qmail 29287 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2004 19:43:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO TGC2003) (65.19.79.8) by ns2.greenmountainaccess.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2004 19:43:18 -0000 From: "Michael Geoghegan" To: "Krnet" Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:43:22 -0500 Message-ID: <002601c3f97c$21913050$6401a8c0@TGC2003> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3F952.38BB2850" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1b3 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:37:00 -0800 Subject: KR>First flight for low time pilot (long) X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3F952.38BB2850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Netters My name is Mike Geoghegan. I have been a member of KRNET for about 4 years. I have posted to the net on a few occasions but for the most part I have listened and gathered a great deal of information which I have used in the completion of my kr2. N47MG is a close to plans built kr2. About 4 years ago I rescued a boat stage project that had been sitting in a barn for 10 years. It was going to the dumps or my garage and since I was looking for a project to take up some of my spare time I put it in my garage. I had started down the road toward a private license in 1980 and got about 20 hours and solo when, due to children, work, and everything else I had to stop. Well now with the last child off to college I was ready to finally get that license. The kr project would keep me busy and when finished, I would have a plane to fly. For those of you who are not low time pilots I can make this post short and tell you that I am flying N47MG and I will be providing photos for everyone to see as soon as the weather in Vermont gets a little warmer. I hope that will be soon. The following is a recap of my experience getting my plane in the air with very little flight time in my log book. The project was a non modified tail wheel kr2 on retracts. I won't go into detail on the completion of the project except to say that I stuck to the plans and ended up with a dry weight of 598 lbs. There were a few things I did in the completion process that I would recommend to others. 1. Be sure to balance ailerons and elevator. The elevator balance is important because without it your elevator trim won't overcome the weight of the elevator. 2. Don't short change the importance of both aileron and elevator trim. I installed what was then Mac servos in the elevator and the very smallest one in the left aileron so I could see it off to my left. It is a 12 inch piano hinge with a piece of 12 x 2 inch sheet metal attached to the trailing edge of the aileron. The servos are controlled by the four buttons on the top of the stick. (also a Mac product) With the use of both trims I can fly this plane hands free for short periods of time. 3. The engine that came with the project was a 1700cc vw. It was mounted as a hand prop setup and it had a posa carb installed. I rebuilt the engine and when I got to the point of testing it I ran into a lot of trouble with the posa carb. Suffice to say that after many hours of testing I lost my patience. I bit the bullet and bought an Ellison. I also purchased an accessory case with starter and alternator. The Ellison is fantastic and the starter is much safer. Now to the hard part. I finished my project in September of 2002. Got the airworthiness certificate and it was ready for testing. I did some low speed taxi testing to maybe 25 mph but I didn't have my pilot certificate yet so I was not going to be able to fly it anyway. I found a test pilot with lots of tail wheel time that was willing to take a test flight. In October of 2002 he showed up for an inspection and a half hour later he got in and took off. The test went very well. Climbs, steep turns, stalls, and a picture perfect wheel landing. He made it all look very easy. The only thing I had to do was increase the surface area of the aileron trim so it could hold the plane level hands free. After the test flight I had to take my check ride and get my certificate. Once I did that I now had a tail wheel kr2 ready to fly. I know that there have been some conversations on the net about not needing a tail wheel endorsement to fly an experimental but you have to be a fool to think that you don't need any tail wheel experience to successfully fly one. Since the test pilot I used was not a CFI and I couldn't find anyone to give me the tail wheel experience I proceeded to do a lot of taxi testing myself. After about 6 hours of time trying to keep the tail up and the plane straight and almost loosing it on a number of occasions I did the smart thing and converted the plane to a tri gear. I purchased a Diehl nose gear assembly and I had a single piece Grove gear made up. I put Tracy O'Brian brakes on the gear and fabricated toe brake pedals to operate the hydraulics. The main gear installation was really pretty easy once the brackets were made up. After two or three taxi test sessions it was obvious that for me the change to tri gear was the right way to go. The plane felt very comfortable. It had familiar handling traits on the ground and I had no trouble keeping it straight under throttle. On the fourth taxi test everything felt so good at 50 that instead of slowing I followed through with a little more speed and back pressure. The plane absolutely leapt into the air. I corrected with a little forward pressure and within two oscillations I was climbing 700 fpm at 80mph. Talking about a thrill! I played with the trim as I was climbing and got settled so I wasn't holding the attitude with the stick. At this point I would like to voice my observations about pitch sensitivity. I only have about 100 hours logged mostly in a 152 but first hand experience can be very valuable. In my opinion the kr2 is not pitch sensitive. What I have found is that the kr2 is very stick sensitive. That is to say that I only use a fraction of stick to control the plane. I have found that if I trim properly I can fly with two finger tips on the stick. If the plane is not trimmed properly then I find myself using too much control input and end up over correcting. The plane responds so well that you can almost think about banking and it will. Now to bring you back to where I left you last. I was climbing out on the first flight. What a joy to feel the response of this plane. I spent some time at altitude trying different speeds and flight attitudes including some slow flight. Again, the trim control helped greatly. I did not feel comfortable trying any stalls but I did have a good idea of the stall speed from the first test flight. The big problem now was how do I land this very sensitive plane when I was used to the yoke of a 152. The answer is not very smooth and not very pretty. It was inevitable that I would end up over correcting on final. I was able to enter final at 80 mph but I was all over the place. The problem was that I kept telling myself "fly the plane" when I should have let it fly itself. All of my input was too much. Well, I made the runway and I made it to a full stop and I didn't have a heart attack but it was close. As I was rolling out one of the locals who was holding short, watching my landing, got on the radio and asked if it was my first flight. After my affirmative reply all he said was "It looks beautiful". I got out and kissed the ground. Every flight since then has been much better and I got a chance to grease one right in front of my CFI. Always a good thing to do. Here is a picture of N47MG when it was a tail dragger. Here is some data: Dry weight is 598 lb Engine is VW 1700cc Carb is Ellison EFS-2 Prop is a Sterba 52 x 42 Header tank only - 16 gal Fuel consumption is 3 to 3.5 gal per hr Climb is 700 fpm at 80 mph Max speed is 130 mph @ 3600 rpm Cruse is 115 mph @ 3200 rpm Landing approach @ 80 mph Numbers @ 70 mph Touch @ 60 or below No flaps or speed brake and not much float. Since it has been a very cold winter here in Vermont I have spent some time putting on wheel pants and doing misc. work as I wait for some good flying days. I hope to fly off the test hours this spring and by then I will really know more about the performance. I also hope to build a larger displacement VW and get some more speed out of her. Turbulence really moves this plane around a lot because it is so light. I'm not sure how long a period of time I could spend going fast and getting thrown around so much but on a smooth day I can see this plane going fast! I hope this has been helpful to those low time pilots trying to make some decisions on their projects and maybe it will help the high time pilots prepare for their first flights. Regards, Mike Geoghegan Moretown Vermont N47MG ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3F952.38BB2850-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:31:49 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>Murphy and Me did OK this time Message-ID: <002001c3f982$e9947070$b764a8c0@homedesktop> In-Reply-To: <002001c3f976$c647fe90$c18afea9@IntelliSpec> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 >>>I thought a few may be able to learn from my experience Many thanks for sharing that Steve - made the right impression on me. I have been on a surfing frenzy since the December break - looking at home built airplanes. The one thing that constantly amazes me is the lack of primary flight instruments in home built birds. I appreciate that these birds are mostly intended for day VFR, but situations like yours arise all too often and you know how easy it was to get caught. I have heard it said that the presence of IF instruments will tempt us to use them - if the pilot has bad discipline, nothing will change that. In 28 years of non-professional flying, an AH has saved my bacon a few times, I don't ever want to be without it. I can however see that size and weight are an issue, not to forget cost. I recently saw something that really impressed me - this is the perfect solution to our needs: Imagine a full out glass cockpit in your KR for $2000, including: = Airspeed Indicator = Altimeter = Attitude Indicator (Horizon) = Compass Heading (real time DI) = Vertical Speed Indicator = Turn Coordinator/Ball = G-Meter = Clock/Timer = Voltmeter = Angle of Attack Indicator?? = Auto pilot inputs available = GPS inputs available All of this for less weight than any one of the primary instruments and less panel space that your open hand. No vacuum pump required - all solid state (no moving parts) gyros. Even with a spare, spare 12v Gel cell, you are saving loads of weight and, I suspect, money as well because you need to buy half of them as analogue instruments anyway. They are self illuminating, so even total vacuum /electrical failure; at night will leave you with full instrumentation. http://www.dynondevelopment.com/index.html My ideal situation would be to have two of these units mounted one above the other. That way there would be total systems duplication (redundancy) of all the above functions - Plus, one could reduce the clutter on each unit by splitting the functions between the two displays. If one failed, you could bring up all the functions you need on the good one. It gets better, similar panels are available that provide all the engine instruments (and I mean ALL engine instruments) including engine analyzer at a fraction of the cost. If you are interested, I will find the URL's and pass on. What engine /prop are you running? >>>At this point I am flying the ball on my electric turn and bank trying to keep right side up. >>>>I scan my panel and realize I never turned on my electric T&B. You mean that ... Well done Mr. Glover, must have presented a reasonable pucker factor, but I guess staying calm and working at it made the difference. Regards Steve J ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:35:51 -0800 From: larry severson To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>Ground handling Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20040222122722.027cfc88@pop-server.socal.rr.com> In-Reply-To: <011301c3f980$2d3e3ed0$f2452141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3 >Just taxiing around for 1/2 an hour is just long enough to give one a >false sense of security in the ease of ground handling. Hopefully, all of the KRNeters will read your whole message. While I have 14,300 hours pilot time, I plan to follow not only the extensive taxi, slow and fast, test time. I also plan to follow my procedure of every airplane that I have transitioned into, namely push the throttle forward SLOWLY. In spite of the fact that the KR can get airborne in 600-900 feet, most test runways exceed 3000 feet. Why not add a couple hundred (thousand) feet to the take off roll and avoid the sudden application of torque that puts you in the weeds? Once you are comfortable, be a hot dog. Until then, caution will help you avoid selling your bird during/at the end of flight test because you got scared once too often. Larry Severson Fountain Valley, CA 92708 (714) 968-9852 larry2@socal.rr.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:03:15 EST From: JSMONDAY@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>First flight for low time pilot (long) Message-ID: <8b.417b774.2d6a7313@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Thanks for the input on your first flight! A couple of questions? You mentioned a 2" x 12" Aileron trim and then you mentioned you needed to enlarge it? is 2" x 12" the final size you feel that works well? Does the 2" x 12" trim (flap) extend past the trailing edge of the aileron, or was it cut of the aileron to make the flap? Also if you have a link to a picture posted somewhere that would be awesome! Thanks for your input! Also it seems to me that if you could have an offset bellcrank (or something like it) perhaps you could increase stick movement with less cable movement close to center, and increase the cable movement as the stick extends further away from the center, like variable power steering. This would still allow you to get the full elevator movement, and reduce the close in sensitivity that everyone seems to have problems with when starting to fly. Has anyone done this??? Thanks, John S. Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:07:02 -0600 From: "Bob Stone" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>bondo (it comes like a tube of tooth paste Message-ID: <008f01c3f987$d1e8c520$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> References: <001401c3f8d7$8a044aa0$ba21f218@hot.rr.com> <4037F780.00000D.03916@Computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5 Dan, It comes in a tube and is ready to use. Yes you do have to prime over it with a good quality primer in order for the paint not to have spots. I forgot to mention that. Read the post by Mark Langford, I think he has the latest information. There may be something even better on the market today, I don't know. When I built many years ago the finish process was featherfull, sand, bondo on the pin holes, featherfill again then sand and paint. Bob Stone, Harker Heights, Tx rstone4@hot.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 6:27 PM Subject: KR>bondo (it comes like a tube of tooth paste Bob Stone, Do you mean Bondo Spot Putty? Bondo, the one for making repairs comes in a two part, doesn't it? Or is this something else? Do you prime over the Bondo, or just paint? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC DanRH@KR-Builder.org See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:07:26 EST From: SkyVisionSC@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Hardware list Message-ID: <1db.1ab29c73.2d6a740e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 Hello... There is a list of items needed for the KR2 as well as other plans & kit built A/C in the back of Wick's catalog. If you don't have a copy, they will send you one. Their toll free is 800-221-9425. Best of luck!...Sherman Spartanburg, S.C. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:24:53 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>Ground handling Message-ID: <002501c3f98a$531bcdc0$b764a8c0@homedesktop> In-Reply-To: <011301c3f980$2d3e3ed0$f2452141@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 >>>There is NO difference between high speed taxiing down the runway, and wheel landing in a cross wind. Both require proficiency of the aircraft. Larry had me sold, then there were doubts - the above bit brings back the perspective for me. Don't forget Larry's caution - the bird must be flight ready in every way before you take her any where near the runway - you never know. Regards Steve J ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:43:19 -0500 From: "Michael Geoghegan" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>First flight for low time pilot (long) Message-ID: <004701c3f98c$e320a150$6401a8c0@TGC2003> In-Reply-To: <8b.417b774.2d6a7313@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 John asked You mentioned a 2" x 12" Aileron trim and then you mentioned you needed to enlarge it? is 2" x 12" the final size you feel that works well? Does the 2" x 12" trim (flap) extend past the trailing edge of the aileron, or was it cut of the aileron to make the flap? My aileron trim started out as a servo imbedded in the aileron connecting to a 1 inch by 12 inch long piano hinge. One leg of the hinge was inserted into a slot I cut into the trailing edge of the aileron so the hinge pin was oriented at the trailing edge. The first flight test was flown with only the 1" leg of the hinge as the actual trim tab. We found that that surface did not deflect the aileron enough so I pop riveted a piece of 12" x 2" sheet metal to that hinge leg making the exposed tab about 24 sq inches. That seemed to be enough. John wrote Also it seems to me that if you could have an offset bellcrank (or something like it) perhaps you could increase stick movement with less cable movement close to center, and increase the cable movement as the stick extends further away from the center, like variable power steering. This would still allow you to get the full elevator movement, and reduce the close in sensitivity that everyone seems to have problems with when starting to fly. Has anyone done this??? Some people have talked about a longer stick to help that issue. One of the things I did was to make my cable connections from the elevator to the stick an inch closer to the pivot point so the travel was a little less. It didn't change the full deflection very much at all and as I said in my post I use very little stick for a lot of control. The movement of the stick is not more than an inch overall. I think this is an issue that you can get used to very quickly. My only point in the post is that the plane is a high performance aircraft and excessive control input should be considered on your first few flights. I wouldn't want to modify the stick so it responded like a 152. I will try to get some photos to Mark to post on the web site as soon as possible. Mike Geoghegan Moretown Vermont N47MG humidors@gmavt.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:45:15 -0600 From: "Steve and Lori McGee" To: Subject: KR>hardware Message-ID: <004401c3f98d$28746ed0$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 9 Just got done ordering over $400 worth of push tubes, cables, and = hardware. Man I really have to wonder about the buildable price on this = thing being as low as is said to be. Course some of that hardware = priceing is just short of an all out rape. =20 Now I need to get busy building and doing less buying and save up some = money for the engine rebuild, then the instruments, then the..... Steve McGee Endeavor Wi. USA Building a KR2S widened. lmcgee@maqs.net=20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 17:35:53 -0500 (EST) From: "" To: krnet@mylist.net Cc: Subject: KR>Kr2s plans and ply wood for sale Message-ID: <20040222223553.2ADF22999E@xprdmailfe21.nwk.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 Kr2s plans and aircraft plywood sides already cut to size and one 4'x8' full size.one firewall not cut yet.and side frames glued together allmost ready for ply skin .$400.00.takes it all .I allso have a corvair engine ready for conversion allready taken apart and cleaned 200.00 Bob At (936)854-2644 _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:42:24 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: KR>KR - Larry's Lady reply (even longer ) Message-ID: <002c01c3f995$2805d4e0$b764a8c0@homedesktop> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20040221205149.00802490@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Thanks for the detailed reply Larry - much learnt and much obliged. >>>>If you plan on going with an 0-320 you probably need to look at a different airplane entirely. In a way I am looking at a "different" airplane. Ken Rand left us something special in his airplanes, but he left something substantially more valuable when he used some readily available materials and showed us a very real construction technique - something that is affordable, easy-to-do and friendly to modification. This is an approach that almost anyone can relate to. If Ken was still around, we would probably be up to the KR2 Mk10 by now and one of them would be exactly what I wanted. Sadly he is not. Resourceful builders have maintained the evolution with the inherent (and inviting) flexibility of the construction method. As a result, most have a bird that suits them and there is an unbelievable variety of stunning KR's all around the world - of which no two are alike. I also want to do that. I have accepted that the KR2S is not exactly what I want, but it is close enough to form the basis of what I do want. The changes I wish to make exceed the limits of simple mods to the existing design - the stress numbers must be run again to ensure that everything is kosher. It remains for me to find qualified help in checking my proposed structure before I start. >>>>I'd suggest you look at something like the "Vision". I did bwana, I looked at many, many designs, including the Vision. Compare the numbers that count and we really have an overweight KR2sx with a swept fin and 100% composite structure (and no KRnet). It deviates from my preferred construction method and offers nothing above a KR except that the stock design will accept my engine - BUT: A key element of any airplane is the wing spar(s). I am totally comfortable making a wood spar (from a good design /plan). I know that the finished spar will be right and I will be comfortable sitting on it at 5000' in heavy turbulence. I would however be hesitant to brew a composite spar (that's me Larry). A factory spar is available for $3,400 - but that would be losing the KR plot before I even start. I bet $3400 will keep an average KR builder busy for a year - should buy him (her) all the wood, foam, glue and a hardware kit, maybe even the plans. I flew Sakkie Halgreens KR2 (ZS-UHU) many years ago in South Africa and did not feel comfortable. 20 years later I see a handsome new breed of stretched, widened, taller, fixed gear airplanes made by folks like Marty Roberts and Chris Gardiner. I read many excellent reports (critiques), ideas, suggestions etc. by folks like Jim Marcy; Neil Bingham; Mark Langford; Don Reid etc. - and I know that this is where I want to be. The rationale behind the engine thing is that I am hooked on GAMI nozzles, I had them in my PA32 and want them in any airplane I ever own. The choice of engine is thus the smallest aircraft engine that is fuel injected - no other reason. I prefer airplane engines for one reason only - they windmill - VW's don't, they stop dead if there is a second's interruption in the fuel. I presume that Corvair engines also don't windmill (if they do please let me know). Take care and have a great week - mine has already started. Steve J ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:51:04 +1000 From: "Ross Evans" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>0200 ENGINE MOUNTS Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12 Hi Larry my kr2S has a 0200 mount it mounts at 290mm foorward of the firewall I am now using a type 4 vw from the vw engine centre it has a reduction drive and fuel injection all up weight is 97 kg with computer and all electrical gear starter and alternator. The balance of the engine is not at half the length of the engine it is at about 2/3rd's towards the front so that should help with c of g if the 0200 is nearly 240 pounds. I hope to have it installed with in 6 weeks and then do a weght and balance to see if it will work out before building a new mount! I have been asked about the distance on the kr2 as there is a guy wanting to put the same engine on a standard kr2 cheers Ross brisbane Australia flykr2@hotmail.com >From: larry flesner >Reply-To: KRnet >To: KRnet >Subject: Re: KR>0200 ENGINE MOUNTS Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 09:03:42 >-0600 > > >hi GUYS can u buy an 0200 mount for the kr2 and kr2s I would be >interested > >on the lengths from the firewalls the engines mount at for both > >aircraft >as > >a starting point so c of g comes out right does the 0200 vary in > >weight between models I know it is around 200 pounds. cheers Ross >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >I think that RR sells an engine mount for the 0-200. I think >that is where Jeff Scott got his. I'm using what I believe to >be a HAPI VW mount for my 0-200 the same as Marty >Roberts. I seem to recall that the 0-200 mount puts the >engine several inches forward of the HAPI mount location. >The problem Jeff has is that it puts his CG rather far forward. >His KR is a 24" stretch like mine. My HAPI mount puts my >CG in the center of the range with full fuel (wing tanks only) >and me at 200 pounds but I'm at the rear limit with another >200 pound passanger and no baggage. Look for the installed >weight of the 0-200, with full electrics, to be closer to 240 >pounds than 200 pounds. > >Marty Roberts has the 0-200 on a standard KR2. He's not >on the net but someone might be able to find out where >his CG falls with the HAPI mount. > >I almost forgot, I spaced my HAPI mount one inch off the >firewall with alum spacers. > >I'll try to remember to take a measurement the next time >I'm at the hangar. I think if I had a straight KR2S instead of >a 24 inch stretch my CG would be right on the money. >I don't recall if Jeff Scott has a header tank or not but that >would have to be factored in. > >Larry Flesner > > > >_______________________________________ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here http://ninemsn.seek.com.au/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:00:51 -0800 From: "David Mikesell" To: , "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Kr2s plans and ply wood for sale Message-ID: <001501c3f997$b8233980$03fea8c0@davids> References: <20040222223553.2ADF22999E@xprdmailfe21.nwk.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13 Where ar eyou at Bob? I might be interested. David Mikesell 23597 N. Hwy 99 Acampo, CA 95220 209-609-8774 skyguynca@skyguynca.com www.skyguynca.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: KR>Kr2s plans and ply wood for sale > Kr2s plans and aircraft plywood sides already cut to size and one 4'x8' full size.one firewall not cut yet.and side frames glued together allmost ready for ply skin .$400.00.takes it all .I allso have a corvair engine ready for conversion allready taken apart and cleaned 200.00 Bob At (936)854-2644 > > _______________________________________________ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:43:23 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" , "Corvaircraft" Subject: KR>Fuse Facet Pump ? Message-ID: <011301c3f9a6$0b6101a0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 14 I am curious if any of you that are running a Facet fuel pump are fusing = the positive lead? The instructions say to go direct to the ignition = switch and mention nothing of a fuse. Also, if you are fusing the = positive lead, what size fuse are you using?=20 Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA=20 E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at =20 http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:47:01 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>backup elect.system Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040222184701.007c64c0@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <0e8c01c3f966$1014e0d0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <20040222.105553.3400.0.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 Netters, After my first landing approach on my first flight I was really glad I installed a speed brake. Well, after a flight today I'm ELATED that I installed a backup electrical system for my fuel pumps. I have no header tank and an electrical system failure means glide mode in 30 or 40 seconds. (Mark Jones, are you listening? ) After takeoff and about halfway to my destination , about a 15 minute flight, I noticed all the electrical gauges on my panel had needles that were flopping back and forth. I had a bad connection somewhere that was dropping out my main elect. buss. I shut down all the switches and kicked on my backup battery to the fuel pumps. I had noticed it in time that the engine never burped. I did some switch flipping and panel tapping on the decent to my destination and the main buss came back on line. Needless to say I left the fuel pumps on the backup battery. After landing I did some troubleshooting and could not duplicate the failure. After much consideration I decided to fly the KR the 15 minutes back to it's home airport and investigate the problem there. I took off and climbed out with the pumps on the backup battery even though my main buss was working. At altitude I switched the pumps back to the main buss to save the backup battery although it should be capable of running the tanks from full to empty when fully charged. My problem appears to have been a broken spade connector on the back of one of the circuit breakers. It has been repaired but while my battery is out I'm planning to relocate it to the front side of the firewall to move my C.G. forward a bit more. I will leave the battery holder and battery box, that is located on the backside of the firewall in the area where most KR's have a header tank, and use it to hold a quart or two of oil (still in the cans of course) and maybe a small set of tools I'd like to have with me when away from home base. I guess it would be expecting too much to have worked on something for 13 years and not have screwed something up. :-) Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:47:18 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: KR>correct use of hardware Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040222184718.00805100@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <004101c3f958$7948ac70$0202a8c0@lori8v5h2xi9m3> References: <200402221458.i1MEwmtt028701@mxsf18.cluster1.charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 16 I did not mean a parts list for >the KR. I meant what is required (if there is a guideline) for hardware >fittings on bell cranks, pushtubes, cables, etc. Regardless of the plane. >So the inspector doesn't come in and say " you have to replace all these >nuts with castles, those pins with bolts, .. >Steve McGee ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= In that case get a set of Tony Bingalis books from the EAA for the easiest and least painful way of educating yourself. If you are a bit masicistic (sp? you know, where you like to inflict pain on yourself ) go for the Federal publication AC 43.13-1A which is probably available in one form or another on the web. OR, join a local EAA chapter and get one of the members or the Tech Councilor to bring you up to speed on the correct use of aircraft hardware. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:47:39 -0600 From: larry flesner To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR>pencil rubber Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20040222184739.007c6100@pop.midwest.net> In-Reply-To: <000901c3f7ec$5c8a0ec0$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17 >rub out the line with a normal pencil rubber. because the pencil line was >drawn 90deg to the grain of the ply so I had to rub up and down with the >grain while slowly following the line covering quite a wide area in the >process.My question is this: What is the effect of this on the epoxy to ply >joint in areas where the rubber has covered, if any? >Dene Collett ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dene, I don't recall anyone answering your question so I'll throw out my thoughts on the matter. A good cleaning of the area should prevent any problems. The rubber is not something that is going to penatrate the wood as say a glue or liquid would. Also, if you have a concern could you turn the ply over and glue on the opposite side and put the "erased" side on the exterior? Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:36:31 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Fuse Facet Pump ? Message-ID: <003b01c3f9ad$76e8e9e0$1202a8c0@basement> References: <011301c3f9a6$0b6101a0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18 Mark Jones wrote: >> I am curious if any of you that are running a Facet fuel pump are fusing the positive lead? << I'm not using a fuse or a circuit breaker. In my book that's one more point of failure. My Karmann Ghia didn't come with a fuse between the coil and the battery either, and that's also the way I wired mine. VW was probably thinking that a sudden engine failure on the autobahn was a lot more dangerous than some smoking wire, and their coil wire runs the length of the car, and is even siamesed to the backup lights! Now before a bunch of people start saying "hail Marys" for me, I should explain that I have a complete backup electrical system, just like Larry is talking about. It's all in a single switch on the panel. I flip one DPST switch and I swap out the distributor's points (I have dual points), condenser, the coil, the ignition switch, the fuel pump, and the battery with a fresh new set. I'll check it on runup, just like a mag check. I guess since I have a complete spare system, I COULD put a fuse on these things, but I just don't like that extra point of failure. Fuses are there to protect the wire. My wire is pretty big, and if anything starts smoking it'll be time to flip that switch. I'd rather see a little smoke and still have the engine running, than have the engine quit and then force me to restart it at in inopportune time. The wires between switch and coils is about three feet long, and you can be sure I've done my best to bulletproof it. That's just my level of comfort, and I don't expect everybody to see it my way. I was assailed on CorvAircraft for not following Bob Knuckoll's mantra, but to me, it makes sense. Some folks have backups for this, switches for that, contactors for something else, etc, but I suspect that under pressure, about all I'll be good for is flipping one switch, and I'm quite comfortable with my setup... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama N56ML "at" hiwaay.net see KR2S project at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 319, Issue 3 *************************************