From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net on behalf of krnet-request@mylist.net Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 6:18 AM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 323, Issue 1 Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Wing Bolts (Kenneth L Wiltrout) 2. Re: Wing Bolts (Phillip Matheson) 3. RE: How long (Ron Freiberger) 4. Re: How long (Ross Youngblood) 5. RE: WIRING (Brian Kraut) 6. Re: How long (Ron Eason) 7. It Breathes! (John Bouyea) 8. Re: How long (Kenneth L Wiltrout) 9. Re: plans for sale 10. RE: How long (Jim Faughn) 11. Re: How long (Ron Eason) 12. Re: How long (Joseph H Horton) 13. RE: How long (Jack Cooper) 14. Re: tail dragger ground handeling (j stevens) 15. how long!!! (Ross Evans) 16. RE: How long..thanks guys (Dennis Dyer) 17. Wheel landing vs 3 point (Colin & Bev Rainey) 18. Re: Re: tail dragger ground handeling (Dan Heath) 19. Re: I also learned to fly a tailwheel in my KR (Martindale Family) 20. Ross Site (Ameet Savant) 21. The KR-2 in Realtime (Orma Robbins) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 16:26:59 -0500 From: Kenneth L Wiltrout To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>Wing Bolts Message-ID: <20040225.162659.2676.0.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1 Go with the 8 bolts per side, If u go with a spacer and 1 bolt fails u are really loosing the srtength of 2 bolts at 2 seperate attach points. On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:26:57 -0700 "Lee" writes: > Netters this will not be my last question for you tonight. This one > goes out to guys and gals that have flying KR's. What is the best > way to bolt the wings on 4 bolts on each side or 8 small ones per > side?? > > Lee Van Dyke > Mesa AZ > N783JB > lee@vandyke5.com > http://vandyke5.com/kr2.htm _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:14:27 +1100 From: "Phillip Matheson" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>Wing Bolts Message-ID: <000801c3fbec$bc276d60$1397dccb@StationW2k04> References: <001c01c3fb57$9bf02900$6601a8c0@D3DF1Y11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2 What is the best way to bolt the wings on 4 bolts on each side or 8 small ones per side?? ------------------------------------------ Lee, Under Australian Standards, the Single bolt on each WAF is required. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR at Mark Jones web http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/pmkr2.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:30:31 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" To: , "KRnet" Subject: RE: KR>How long Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040225184831.C76413978@sitemail.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3 Several thousand, maybe. How fast are you? Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dennis Dyer Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 1:49 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR>How long Hi Netters, I was recently asked how long it would take to build a KR..I said I'd post on the KR Net to get an idea of the average builders hours. Can you help me answer this question? Thanks, Dennis Dyer 13035 US Hwy 285 Pine, CO 80470 _____________________________________________________________ Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 14:33:50 -0800 From: Ross Youngblood To: kr2s@mtnguy.com, KRnet Subject: Re: KR>How long Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20040225184831.C76413978@sitemail.everyone.net> References: <20040225184831.C76413978@sitemail.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 4 Started mine in 1988... but have had several years off due to family and job moving me around. 80% of all kit planes are never completed. To prevent myself from being one of those I pass on the following advice I recieved from EAA'ers in 1988. 1) Never set a completion date. 2) When the weight of the paperwork equals the weight of the airplane it is legal to fly. 3) Your airworthyness certificate will arrive about the same time as your divorce papers. I have successfully avoided #3, and am working on #2 to finish. On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:48:31 -0800 (PST), Dennis Dyer wrote: > Hi Netters, > > I was recently asked how long it would take to build a KR..I said I'd > post on the KR Net to get an idea of the average builders hours. Can you > help me answer this question? > > Thanks, > > Dennis Dyer > 13035 US Hwy 285 > Pine, CO 80470 > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:07:03 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Brian Kraut To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR>WIRING Message-ID: <15751043.1077750429373.JavaMail.root@waldorf.psp.pas.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 5 I realize that some will disagree with me here so feel free to flame away, = just please do it off the list so you don't use a bunch of bandwith. One of the first things I did when I got my KR was to rip out every wire in= it and replace it with Tezfel insulated aircraft wire. It is a real pain = to work with since it is so slippery and it comes in any color you want as = long as you want it in white. My total cost for all of the wire, and I had= a LOT of wire in my plane, was under $100.00. I had a PVC insulated wire go up in smoke in a car one time and it only too= k one breath before I nearly choked to death and I almost cause an accident= getting off the road and opening a window. You don't have the option of p= ulling over and opening the window in an airplane. And keep in mind that w= e are not talking about a lot of smoke here, it was just a tiny bit of smok= e and a bunch of toxic gass from the insulation that had my lungs burning l= ike they were on fire. There have been some recent questions on circuit protection and also on har= dware. Always protect ALL circuits with the appropriate sized circuit brea= ker or fuse. Size the breaker or fuse to protect the wire size it is conne= cted to and be sure you sized the wire for the current draw on it and the l= ength. The correct sizes of wire and protection devices can be found in FA= A advisory circular AC 43.13 Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices.= You can buy the book or download it from the FAA web site. It also conta= ins all the information you would ever want to know on aircraft hardware, c= orrect safety wiring practices, wood working procedures, and in general, ab= out everything you need to know when building an airplane. Keep a copy pro= minently displayed when the FAA inspector comes by and you will see an inst= ant smile on his face. I have said before, and repeat that anyone building= a homebuilt should have a copy, should read it, and should refer to it all= the time. Just this A&Ps humble opinion. I know these are experimental aircraft and you don't need to do everything = to the regs, but remember that a wire will burn up or a wrong bolt will bre= ak just as easily in an experimental as a certified plane. -----Original Message----- From: Rich Meyer Sent: Feb 24, 2004 11:56 PM To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR>WIRING There's no advantage to running two separate wires. If all you are running on this circuit is that tail-lamp, probably 2A or so, I'd suggest home depot 18 ga. speaker wire. One copper colored and one silver colored in clear insulation makes seeing polarity easy. Do you want the light to run all the time, or are you going to switch it? Do you have any other power run to behind your seat that you can tap, instead of coming all the way to the panel? Rich Meyer Millersburg IN 46543 cptcsd@npcc.net phone 574-642-3963 cell 574-202-3920=20 -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Lee Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:27 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>WIRING Hey Netters, I am in a dicision mode for wiring for a light added to the tail of my KR2. The light is an automotive type, added to the rudder like a few other people have done. My question is what is the best wire to use to link the light to the switch up front. Gauge of wire, 2 seperate wires or a bundle wire with 2 stands, home depot has a large selection, or do I go to Auto Zone???? Lee Van Dyke Mesa AZ lee@vandyke5.com http://vandyke5.com/kr2.htm _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:39:24 -0600 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>How long Message-ID: <007b01c3fbf8$9a6f9150$6501a8c0@Administration> References: <20040225184831.C76413978@sitemail.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 6 I like Ross, I started mine in 1989 or was it 1990 I can't remember. Anyway, I started planning a Brut Rutan Easy in 1970, built a special garage and acquired a wood and sheetmetal shop. Got a divorce, lost it all except for my 4 kids, lost the plans in 1979 during a house move. Got married in 1980 acquired a 4 more kids. Purchased a boat KR2 in Los Alamos, NM from Al Brown 1979, moved it to KCMO. Some years I did no work because of family, work obligations and money availability. I like Ross, have always known "the KR2 will wait for me to finish her" it's in a nice safe dry space in my split level basement along with 2 cars and my second wood and sheetmetal shop. I to received similar advice from EAA'ers. 1) Never set a completion date. 2) When the weight of the paperwork equals the weight of the airplane it is legal to fly. 3) Your airworthyness certificate will arrive about the same time as your divorce papers. I kinda have successfully avoided #3, and am also working on #2 to finish. I estimate my hours at 3000 plus, heavily modified however. KRRon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:08:52 -0800 From: "John Bouyea" To: "'KRNet'" Subject: KR>It Breathes! Message-ID: <001101c3fc05$194dc8f0$a800a8c0@dell4600> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7 Just had to tell someone! I fired off my RevMaster 2100 this afternoon after FAR too long in the conversion to Diehl tri-gear process. It seems to be running better than I remember. It might have something to do with all the new 3/8" fuel lines I installed. It sure doesn't have anything to do with the fuel level as I only put 3 quarts of gas in the dry tank! My wife isn't jumping up and down with me but hopefully this gives someone else a smile this afternoon. John Bouyea KR2 - ready to start mounting the cowl KR2S - boat hanging from the rafters john_0310@bouyea.net www.bouyea.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:14:20 -0500 From: Kenneth L Wiltrout To: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com,krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>How long Message-ID: <20040225.201421.1428.0.klw1953@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 8 5 yrs and 1800 hrs for 6399U. On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:30:31 -0500 "Ron Freiberger" writes: > Several thousand, maybe. How fast are you? > > Ron Freiberger > mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net > [mailto:krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net]On Behalf > Of > Dennis Dyer > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 1:49 PM > To: KRnet > Subject: KR>How long > > Hi Netters, > > I was recently asked how long it would take to build a KR..I said > I'd post > on the KR Net to get an idea of the average builders hours. Can you > help me > answer this question? > > Thanks, > > Dennis Dyer > 13035 US Hwy 285 > Pine, CO 80470 > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:23:26 -0800 From: To: , "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>plans for sale Message-ID: <003401c3fc07$228f67a0$0f00a8c0@greg> References: <20040224221843.9FDB6299D8@xprdmailfe22.nwk.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9 Who has the corvair and is selling it? Let me know as I think I might have a use for it if it's less that 10k light years away from California. Greg Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 2:18 PM Subject: KR>plans for sale > > > > > > > > > kr2s plans and Jeorge toths tri gear plans included .$200.00 > (936)854-2644 Ask for Bob Allso have aicraft mahogany 4x8 sheet ply sides cut to fit.and firewall ply not cut $200.00 one corvair 102 hp taking apart cleaned ready for conversion. $150.00 > > > _______________________________________________ > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:22:59 -0600 From: "Jim Faughn" To: , "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR>How long Message-ID: <000001c3fc0f$74e24240$27d55540@jfaughn> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10 I built my KR in a little over 1100 hours. With that said, it could have been much less and much more. The reality is that the time to build a KR is dependent upon three major factors. First, your experience level. Mine was zero and I had to learn how to size an AN bolt, which took time beyond the building hours. It also meant that I was slower than an experienced builder and I estimate took an extra 20+ percent over what I could build one today. I also made mistakes which I had to correct which were included in the building hours. Second, how do you count hours. In my case, I only counted hours that I actually built the plane. This meant time reading books, buying parts and reading the plans many times did not count. Third, and probably the most significant, how many modifications do you want to make. In my case, I recognized I was ignorant in the area of plane building and really needed to stick to someone else's engineering. So, I built a primarily plans built with a VW and used other peoples mistakes and successes to create my plane as fast as I could. As I thought about your question, I came up with an example that illustrates some of the time added to my plane. One of the things that I consider critical is my rear windows. I believe they contribute to the safety of the plane and they also look pretty good. However, I estimate they took at least 30-40 hours extra to build. This is creating a template for the windows, cutting the windows, forming the windows, cutting the turtle deck, creating a holder within the turtle deck, gluing in the windows, fairing in the windows, masking off (many times) for prep, primer, color coat, clear coat, etc, etc. Bottom line is each change requires a lot of time. I want to emphasize that for MANY people the enjoyment of building a plane is to make those changes. I admire these people. In my case it was to fly. So, how many hours does it take? Don't have a clue, it depends on what you are looking for in enjoyment within the process. I truly believe you must enjoy the process because if you don't you will never finish. I only can tell you that building the KR is the most rewarding thing that you will do. Start and have a great time. See you at the KR Gathering at Mt. Vernon. Jim N891JF Jim Faughn 4323D Laclede Ave. St. Louis, MO 63108 (314)652-7659 Email - sub @ for "at" jfaughn "at" socket.net Web Site http://jfaughn.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Ron Freiberger Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 4:31 PM To: kr2s@mtnguy.com; KRnet Subject: RE: KR>How long Several thousand, maybe. How fast are you? Ron Freiberger mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+rfreiberger=swfla.rr.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dennis Dyer Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 1:49 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR>How long Hi Netters, I was recently asked how long it would take to build a KR..I said I'd post on the KR Net to get an idea of the average builders hours. Can you help me answer this question? Thanks, Dennis Dyer 13035 US Hwy 285 Pine, CO 80470 _____________________________________________________________ Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 21:20:27 -0600 From: "Ron Eason" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>How long Message-ID: <004701c3fc17$7b319440$6501a8c0@Administration> References: <000001c3fc0f$74e24240$27d55540@jfaughn> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11 Well said Jim, You got to enjoy the process it's really fun and it shouldn't be a race. For some of us it's one of the most important work we will do. Ron From: "Jim Faughn" To: ; "'KRnet'" Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 8:22 PM Subject: RE: KR>How long > I built my KR in a little over 1100 hours. With that said, it could > have been much less and much more. The reality is that the time to > build a KR is dependent upon three major factors. First, your > experience level. Mine was zero and I had to learn how to size an AN > bolt, which took time beyond the building hours. It also meant that I > was slower than an experienced builder and I estimate took an extra > 20+ percent over what I could build one today. I also made mistakes > which I had to correct which were included in the building hours. > Second, how do you count hours. In my case, I only counted hours that > I actually built the plane. This meant time reading books, buying > parts and reading the plans many times did not count. Third, and > probably the most significant, how many modifications do you want to > make. In my case, I recognized I was ignorant in the area of plane > building and really needed to stick to someone else's engineering. So, > I built a primarily plans built with a VW and used other peoples > mistakes and successes to create my plane as fast as I could. As I > thought about your question, I came up with an example that > illustrates some of the time added to my plane. One of the things that > I consider critical is my rear windows. I believe they contribute to > the safety of the plane and they also look pretty good. However, I > estimate they took at least 30-40 hours extra to build. This is > creating a template for the windows, cutting the windows, forming the > windows, cutting the turtle deck, creating a holder within the turtle > deck, gluing in the windows, fairing in the windows, masking off (many > times) for prep, primer, color coat, clear coat, etc, etc. Bottom line > is each change requires a lot of time. I want to emphasize that for MANY > people the enjoyment of building a plane is to make those changes. I > admire these people. In my case it was to fly. > > So, how many hours does it take? Don't have a clue, it depends on what > you are looking for in enjoyment within the process. I truly believe > you must enjoy the process because if you don't you will never finish. > I only can tell you that building the KR is the most rewarding thing > that you will do. Start and have a great time. > > See you at the KR Gathering at Mt. Vernon. > > Jim > N891JF > > Jim Faughn > 4323D Laclede Ave. > St. Louis, MO 63108 > (314)652-7659 > Email - sub @ for "at" jfaughn "at" socket.net > Web Site http://jfaughn.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:19:32 -0500 From: Joseph H Horton To: kr2s@mtnguy.com,krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>How long Message-ID: <20040225.221933.-343375.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12 So far 2100 Hrs and 8 years. Planning completion this summer.-- Joe Horton On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 10:48:31 -0800 (PST) Dennis Dyer writes: > Hi Netters, > > I was recently asked how long it would take to build a KR..I said > I'd post on the KR Net to get an idea of the average builders hours. > Can you help me answer this question? > > Thanks, > > Dennis Dyer > 13035 US Hwy 285 > Pine, CO 80470 > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > Joe Horton Coopersburg, Pa. joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:02:39 -0500 From: "Jack Cooper" To: "kr2s@mtnguy.com, KRnet" Subject: RE: KR>How long Message-ID: <410-2200424264239203@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 13 So far 1500+ hours and 4 years. More to go than I want to know Jack Cooper > [Original Message] > From: Dennis Dyer > To: KRnet > Date: 2/25/2004 1:57:55 PM > Subject: KR>How long > > Hi Netters, > > I was recently asked how long it would take to build a KR..I said I'd post on the KR Net to get an idea of the average builders hours. Can you help me answer this question? > > Thanks, > > Dennis Dyer > 13035 US Hwy 285 > Pine, CO 80470 > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 22:03:10 -0600 From: j stevens To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>Re: tail dragger ground handeling Message-ID: <403D6FFE.2040308@usfamily.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14 My instructor, who has extensive tail dragger time, warned that more accidents happen during high speed taxi test than during any phase of tail dragger flight. I do not think we did any hs taxis. His feeling being you get the feel during take off with out the extra danger inherent in powering back. For example shortened or no runway, change in torque etc. I have to admit I would not want to have to think about powering back, braking and a short runway if I was in the middle of a potential ground loop. You have to literally be on your toes in a tail dragger roll. Just something to consider when deciding weather to high speed taxi of not. As far as wheeled vs three point landings I always land three point . A wheeled landing is much easier for sure but it gobbles up a lot of runway , and since my home base is a short field I do not have the luxury of a wheeled landing. Besides its important for me to know just how short a field I can land on. Joel. ------ http://USFamily.Net/info - Unlimited Internet - From $8.99/mo! ------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:22:54 +1000 From: "Ross Evans" To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR>how long!!! Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15 HI netters. I am 24 now I bought my plane at quite an advanced stage probably about 70-80% I have had it since july last year and have put in about 600 hours. Lucky I am single and young I will work on it or do something towards working on it everyday I have just spent about 220 hours on the canopy alone to get it where I like. I am hoping to fly at easter but will probably have to wait while I save for instruments I expect mid year so 12 months was the plan at the start and I am trying to go quicker but there is always something else but I am really enjoying the building and can't wait to fly it. I have been building in a single car garage and I have to push the plane outside to work and set up a collapsable bench Next time I will have a big shed and will do somethings differently in my approach. U can build anywhere I have parts of aeroplane in my bedroom, resin in the fridge wings at my parents house. I have also had to move as the apartment I was in was sold I reckon with all the moving of the plane in and out and not having room as cost me probably 70 hours. In some areas of building I should have used peel ply and had a jig for spinning the plane to make life easy but u live and learn!! check out www.saaa.com.au go to chapters go to queensland and click on the map check out chapter 15 there is some photo's of the plane. The last one is a month ago and the plane is much smoother now cheers Ross Evans flykr2@hotmail.com brisbane Austrailia _________________________________________________________________ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here http://ninemsn.seek.com.au/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:27:05 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Dyer To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR>How long..thanks guys Message-ID: <20040226042705.485863951@sitemail.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16 Thanks for all the responses, I just bought a KR and was talking to a couple of friends...they wanted to know how much time I'd saved and I didn't have a clue, just figured 5 or 6 years. I'd bought my plans last June, went to Red Oak last fall (that convinced me the KR was the right plane for me), and figured on starting this spring. My plane needs a LOT of work...does KR stand for Kinda Rough? ;~) Anyway it's well constructed, just needs a lot of "cosmetics" That's probably more than anyone wants to know! Thanks again guys. Dennis Dyer Pine, CO _____________________________________________________________ Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _____________________________________________________________ Get your free e-mail address http://www.mtnguy.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 03:53:32 -0500 From: "Colin & Bev Rainey" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>Wheel landing vs 3 point Message-ID: <004701c3fc46$0399fec0$99ef0843@RaineyDay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 17 Joel, Please pay close attention to the information provided by the pilots who = have been flying KRs. They all agree that wheel landing the KR is = virtually the only safe way to land this airplane due to the way it = behaves, aerodynamics of this design etc... You will probably have to = consider changing your home airfield if things are that tight, or choose = a more suitable aircraft that has better STOL performance if you want to = get in and out of that short of a field. Just as a reference, Cessna = recommends that you calculate the takeoff and landing performance = numbers from published information and then add another 50% as a safety = margin for maximum safety. Most of the commentary about high speed taxi = testing have been directed towards builder pilots preparing for their = first flights. I feel it would be prudent, though not required to have = a runway at least double what you think you will need, if possible = triple for those first few flights. Even if the airplane can perform = within the minimum standards I doubt the pilot can until he becomes = familiar with his "beast". I fully intend to high speed test mine, as = well as the take off hops, maintaining ground effect. I will let = everyone know what I think of the process during and after I have done = so. Soon as the rain stops, we are off to the airport with N96TA! =20 Colin & Bev Rainey KR2(td) N96TA Sanford, FL crainey1@cfl.rr.com or crbrn96ta@hotmail.com http://kr-builder.org/Colin/index.htmlFrom DanRH@alltel.net Thu Feb 26 02:49:40 2004 Received: from mta01.alltel.net ([166.102.165.143] helo=mta01-srv.alltel.net) by lizard.esosoft.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1AwJ5H-000Ac6-00 for krnet@mylist.net; Thu, 26 Feb 2004 02:49:39 -0800 Received: from Computer ([151.213.90.161]) by mta01-srv.alltel.net with SMTP id <20040226104125.RJCK4486.mta01-srv.alltel.net@Computer> for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2004 04:41:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <403DCD5D.000004.03124@Computer> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 05:41:33 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) Content-Type: Text/Plain X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (2001155.2001155) From: "Dan Heath" References: X-FID: PLAINTXT-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 X-FVER: 3.0 X-CNT: ; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: KR>Ross Site X-BeenThere: krnet@mylist.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3 Precedence: list Reply-To: KRnet List-Id: KRnet List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: Ross,=0D =0D I tried your site, but could not get to it. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 05:45:26 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" To: "krnet@mylist.net" Subject: Re: KR>Re: tail dragger ground handeling Message-ID: <403DCE46.000006.03124@Computer> References: <403D6FFE.2040308@usfamily.net> Content-Type: Text/Plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 18 Joel,=0D =0D Are you flying a KR now? If not, and you are planning on always doing 3 point, I think you better re-plan. If you have a short field, I think you need to plan on a belly board, but don't plan on 3 point in a KR. =0D =0D See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics=0D =0D Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC=0D =0D DanRH@KR-Builder.org=0D =0D See you in Mt. Vernon - 2004 - KR Gathering=0D =0D See our EAA Chapter 242 at http://EAA242.org=0D =20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:10:01 +1100 From: "Martindale Family" To: "KRnet" Subject: Re: KR>I also learned to fly a tailwheel in my KR Message-ID: <000001c3fc5f$b7212040$75a0fea9@johnjane> References: <000401c3f6e4$017fe080$2b64a8c0@homedesktop> <40374122.000012.03344@Computer> <4037CF4F.1050107@cuug.ab.ca> <000001c3f905$119f2160$75a0fea9@johnjane> <5.2.1.1.0.20040223093907.027d2f88@pop-server.socal.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 19 Larry It is not only a question of entering a groundloop. Most high time taildragger pilots will have experienced these at some time when no amount of opposite rudder can produce a correction. It is the nature of tail dragger design. Lift the tail too early on full power in the KR with 110hp Corvair engine and you will enevitably join these ranks. Throttle back too quickly and you'll go the other way. I know this from bitter experience. Of equal relevance is the KR pitch sensitivity. Trying to control nose attitude at low speed close to the ground when you've just lifted off unintentionally due to ground effect in a high speed taxi is no mean task in the KR especially if you're set on getting straight down again. Whilst I agree that practice in this part of the envelope is essential, my point is simply that in reality you want to transition it as quickly as possible. It is a dangerous area to be in. Again from my humble experience. Others may disagree but it is the people who have actually flown KRs that you should ask.. I would be willing to bet that most honest pilots have been bitten at some stage. John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjane@chc.net.au ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry severson" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 4:43 AM Subject: Re: KR>I also learned to fly a tailwheel in my KR > > > Well I went and ground looped my KR today, broke the gear, and the prop is > >MANY tooth picks > > This why I do not understand those who say, if the tail lifts, go for > it. If you have trouble controlling a high speed taxi at 40-50-60 MPH, > you will > eventually get caught in a ground loop. It is not a question of if, > but WHEN! > > I will make at least 10 HS taxi runs, plus the recommended 50 foot > hop, even though I am a relatively high time pilot. > > There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots. > > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > > _______________________________________ > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 06:06:43 -0800 (PST) From: Ameet Savant To: krnet Subject: KR>Ross Site Message-ID: <20040226140643.26256.qmail@web60808.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 20 The correct URL for Ross's site down under is: http://www.saaa.com/chapter/fifteen/current_month/Newsletter.htm Thanks Ameet __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:09:38 -0500 From: "Orma Robbins" To: "KRnet" Subject: KR>The KR-2 in Realtime Message-ID: <005601c3fc72$2cc6e750$acc14944@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 21 Good Morning Net It's 8 AM here in Michigan, my coffee is on the brew and I have scanned = the top stories on Yahoo and read the overnight posts on KR-Net. Years = ago, that is in the early 70's for some and back to 83 for me, I started = to follow the KR aircraft. builders were plentiful even back then, but = they were far apart. News was by way of the newsletters and usually = came once a month. It seemed that there was so little information. = Yet, builders and others read each line over and over and saved the old = papers in collections. Look as us now, it's nearly like turning on the = morning news. The net can take credit for making improvements to the = craft, and helping builders and want-a-bee's through all sorts of = dilemmas and decisions. As I read this mornings posts mostly on the = continuations of several threads, it reminded me of the Editorial Pages = in the Daily News, where the most vivid opinions are printed I think = just to stir public discussion. The really neat thing about the net is it's Real Time nature. Events = are current such as Larry's first flight, and Brian's plight. One of = things that is the hardest to do is to admit in public that we have = flaws and make mistakes. Brian was brave. It is easy to say "I did = it", and wait for all the congrats. I feel that it is equally as = important to know how to successfully accomplish a task such as the = dangerous HS taxi, as it is to know what went wrong when one of the = unfortunate things happen. Each of these has a place in helping others = become more successful. Like it or not the KRnet is a social entity. You only have to read for = a few days to see friendship and negative emotions displayed on a global = basis. The KRnet is a family. My only wish is that we could get Mother = Jeanette occasionally speak. Orma L. Robbins Southfield MI 19 Years flying KR-2 N110LR http://www.aviation-mechanics.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 323, Issue 1 *************************************