From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 106 Date: 3/15/2005 9:00:15 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Kr Costs... (Dene Collett (SA)) 2. Re: Dual Controls (was seat possition) (Ron Smith) 3. Dual Controls (was seat possition) (larry flesner) 4. Re: Dual Controls (was seat possition) (JSMONDAY@aol.com) 5. RE: Dual Controls (was seat possition) (Brian Dominick) 6. Re: R?f. : KR> Any Oregon KR's out there (N667HU@aol.com) 7. Controls/location/cockpit width (larry flesner) 8. Re: handheld GPS: Found the website (Scott Cable) 9. Fit two people (Dan Heath) 10. RE: Seat position, rudder pedals (Brian Kraut) 11. Re: handheld GPS (was Kr cost) (Scott Cable) 12. RE: Fit two people (Brian Dominick) 13. Re: Seat position (Scott Cable) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:44:56 +0200 From: "Dene Collett (SA)" Subject: Re: KR> Kr Costs... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <014e01c529b2$d4cf4c80$eba2fea9@DeneCollett> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Stephen, what model Garmen was that? Just curious. ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Jacobs To: 'KRnet' Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:56 PM Subject: RE: KR> Kr Costs... I was very happy with my new toy - it worked fine in the car but > it would not work in the airplane. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:17:43 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: KR> Dual Controls (was seat possition) To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050316001743.4139.qmail@web81706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- larry severson wrote: > > >Please elaborate on pro's and con's for 2 sticks > verse centre stick as I'm > >thinking of redoing my ailerons as push/pull tubes > and was considering > >going to dual sticks. > > When carrying a passenger: > 1. no problem changing control. > 2. easy to ride controls when training passenger. > 3. can put engine controls in center making it > possible for either pilot to > control. > 4. Emergencies (medical) happen. Do you want your > passenger to die with > you, or to save you? > > > Larry Severson > Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > (714) 968-9852 > larry2@socal.rr.com > > >Hello Larry, my fellow Orangecountian, I agree with you post. Especially the controls in the center. To me that makes such sense. Why have the controls where a passenger has difficulty using them. BTW, Where are you on your project? Do you have pictures posted somewhere?. I used to live in Fountain Valley, off Newhope and Mcfadden. Ron Smith, KR2S, boat stage ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:02:27 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Dual Controls (was seat possition) To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050315190227.00810100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >3. can put engine controls in center making it possible for either >pilot to >control. >4. Emergencies (medical) happen. Do you want your passenger to die with >you, or to save you? >Larry Severson ================================================== When I was trying to make the decision on where to locate my stick(s) and throttle I knew I wanted to fly with right hand on the stick so I located the throttle on the left side. I also wanted the stick between my legs so I could rest my arm/hand on my leg. Those requirements dictated the location of each. On my second panel I also located all switches and controls on the left side so I don't have to be switching hands on the stick. My left hand operates everything including the radio and on some flights my right hand never leaves the stick. I nearly wore out a set of lips making motor noises setting in my KR trying to decide EXACTLY where on the left side to place my throttle. I'd clamp in in one location, make motor noises and fly for a bit, move it to a new location, more motor noises, fly it for a bit, etc. And you wonder why it took me 13 years to get mine finished !!!!!! I didn't build my KR for others to fly but built the airplane I WANTED TO FLY and I'm extremely glad I went that route. I have dual sticks but the right side stick rides in the baggage sack. I've only installed it for one of the five passangers I've had to date and that was Willie Wilson. The other four couldn't have saved themselves anyway if I died at the controls. Also, the KR cockpit is narrow enough that if I have another pilot as a passanger with the stick installed, they could easily handle my left side throttle. Bottom line, build the airplane the way you will enjoy flying it. If an occasional passanger doesn't like YOUR setup, tough. Let them build their own KR !!! :-) Larry Flesner 130+ hours and still YEEEE HAAAAin' ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:21:07 EST From: JSMONDAY@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Dual Controls (was seat possition) To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <30.6e642ce9.2f68e403@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Larry I thought the same thing.. then I was reminded that when I fly a production plane (piper warrior and most others), I always have my right hand on the throttle quadrant and my left hand on wheel anyway!!! So that settled it for me!! John Monday KR2S Laguna Beach, CA In a message dated 3/15/2005 5:05:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, flesner@ midwest.net writes: When I was trying to make the decision on where to locate my stick(s) and throttle I knew I wanted to fly with right hand on the stick so I located the throttle on the left side. I also wanted the stick between my legs so I could rest my arm/hand on my leg. Those requirements dictated the location of each. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:25:46 +1100 From: "Brian Dominick" Subject: RE: KR> Dual Controls (was seat possition) To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Larry You mentioned as highlighted below (the KR cockpit is narrow enough) That is a dimension not mentioned in any postings, can anybody clue me up . KR's interest me but will 2 people fit comfortably Brian Dominick When I was trying to make the decision on where to locate my stick(s) and throttle I knew I wanted to fly with right hand on the -------------------------- some text removed --------------------- have saved themselves anyway if I died at the controls. Also, the KR cockpit is narrow enough that if I have another pilot as a passanger with the stick installed, they could easily handle my left side throttle. Bottom line, build the airplane the way you will enjoy flying it. If an occasional passanger doesn't like YOUR setup, tough. Let them build their own KR !!! :-) Larry Flesner 130+ hours and still YEEEE HAAAAin' _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:41:29 EST From: N667HU@aol.com Subject: Re: R?f. : KR> Any Oregon KR's out there To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <66.530ebdf0.2f68f6d9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" WOW!!!! Thanks for all the information guys. I have received some replies offline on some KR's in the area. I am looking forward to getting a project and then getting to work. I am sure you will want me to shut up after I get started asking questions...... Thanks again. Larry ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:03:21 -0600 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Controls/location/cockpit width To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050315210321.00811100@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Larry I thought the same thing.. then I was reminded that when I fly a >production plane (piper warrior and most others), I always have my right hand on the throttle quadrant and my left hand on wheel anyway!!! So that settled it >for me!! >John Monday +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I too prefer flying a control wheel with the left hand, right hand on throttle but I like right hand on a stick, left hand on throttle. I'm right handed and it's a matter of personal preference. Every builder should build their KR the way THEY want it. As to cockpit width mentioned in another post, go to http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp and type in cockpit width. You should get 133 hits on the subject. This address is at the bottom of every net e-mail. Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:06:51 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> handheld GPS: Found the website To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050316030651.50656.qmail@web53003.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii OK Guys, I found the URL for the book that I read on GPS's.... it's written by John Bell, a 757 jockey. if you click/paste on: http://www.cockpitgps.com/cpgpsweb/main.htm that will take you right to his website. Or try: http://www.cockpitgps.com/ for even more info... Everything you wanted to know about GPS but were afraid to ask! larry flesner wrote: , I learned that the primary difference between Aviation GPS's and Non-Aviation rated GPS's such as Marine units is the times per minute that they update. > The Aviation units update many times more per minute than ground or marine based units. >Scott Cable +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I have a seven year old Lawrence 300 and recall reading in the manual when I purchased it that the unit can be set to update once every five seconds or once every second. I guess I'd better check what mine is set for now that I'm using it in the KR. I may be there already !!! :-) Larry Flesner Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:07:41 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Fit two people To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <4237A2FD.000001.01084@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Pends..... on the two people. Jerry and I are about average build and it is cozy. I flew in Jim Faughn's with him and it was cozy. You can always make it wider. Like Larry F. says, build it for YOU and your results will vary. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:12:38 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Seat position, rudder pedals To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I really liked the dual sticks for a few reasons. One is that it lets you rest your hand on your leg. EITHER hand when one gets tired. I also liked the fact that I could trim the elevator and fold sectionals with both hands while I kept the plane going straight with my knees. The one disadvantage to dual sticks that I could see is that you had to spread your legs a little to keep them out of the way of the stick. This is perfectly natural and comfortable, but when two people are in the plane you have your left knee against the left side of the plane, the passenger has his right knee against the right side of the plane, and your right knee is against your passengers left knee and you can't get full side to side stick motion unless you both kind of move your knees in the center of the plane along with the stick. This is more of a problem if either of you are tall and less of a problem if you make the plane a few inches wider. I had a pin I could pull to remove the right stick if it ever was a real problem. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com I must be wrong, almost everyone is opting for dual controls - even guys that had already completed and installed single sticks Steve J _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:16:38 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> handheld GPS (was Kr cost) To: Jim Sellars , KRnet Message-ID: <20050316031639.46365.qmail@web53002.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jim, Try: http://www.cockpitgps.com/ I'll let you draw your own conclusions! Jim Sellars wrote: Scott: I am considering a new GPS unit for my KR2 soon to be on line. What do you recommend after doing the research? The Lorance airmap or the Garmin? Can one use the lap top approach with a GPS map unit cost effectively? Look forward to your info. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Cable" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:22 PM Subject: Re: KR> handheld GPS (was Kr cost) > Netters; > I'm definitely no expert on GPS, but from the research that I did on the > GPS subject when I was going to purchase one, I learned that the primary > difference between Aviation GPS's and Non-Aviation rated GPS's such as > Marine units is the times per minute that they update. (I can't remember > the URL where I got this info, or I'd post it also, but it was written by > a 747 pilot.) > The Aviation units update many times more per minute than ground or > marine based units. You can test this by taking note of your location (in > your car), then turn a corner and head into a new direction and see how > long it takes your GPS to update to your new direction / location. > Typically you'll notice a lag between the time that you turn, and when the > GPS actually updates. Because of the lag time, Marine and ground based > units are not recommended for aviation use. > The next and maybe more obvious difference is in the databases. Aviation > unit databases are far different than a Marine unit. Not to say that you > couldn't easily update the database for aviation use, but that's a whole > new subject... > Maybe the reason Oscar is having difficulties, is because he's switched > continents, he may be right on the border of what the satellites can > "see". Oscar may need to update his service to change which satellites > his GPS is "reading" from. > > Oscar Zuniga wrote: >>After much frustration I learnt that it would not function over certain >>speeds - not sure now, but I think it stopped registering after 70mph. > > I think it's good to 99 MPH (clearly posted in the product specs on their > website, if you snoop), which is the reason I ended up buying a > non-aviation > Magellan handheld rather than the equal-priced/equal-featured non-aviation > Garmin (the Magellan doesn't hit the wall at 99 MPH). > > > Scott Cable > KR-2S # 735 > Wright City, MO > s2cable1@yahoo.com > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:24:40 +1100 From: "Brian Dominick" Subject: RE: KR> Fit two people To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dan Thanks for that, I would like to know the dimension as per standard plan (which I have not invested in as yet) to compare with the 150 I am training in. Thanks again Brian -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+cad=southernphone.com.au@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+cad=southernphone.com.au@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Dan Heath Sent: Wednesday, 16 March 2005 2:08 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Fit two people Pends..... on the two people. Jerry and I are about average build and it is cozy. I flew in Jim Faughn's with him and it was cozy. You can always make it wider. Like Larry F. says, build it for YOU and your results will vary. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:47:22 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Cable Subject: Re: KR> Seat position To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050316034722.1394.qmail@web53006.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steve, I used a SAE "Oscar" template to design the seats for my KR2S. I also followed the Automotive Seating Comfort Criteria by maintaining a minimum of 35 mm "meat to metal". Bottom line is that it is possible to comfortably fit a 95th percentile male into a KR. you can see the results of what I did at: http://www.kr-builder.org/ScottCable/index.html You will notice that most of the older KR's had the sling seat. Most everyone resorted to boat cushions. The sling seat is light weight, but you pay the price in comfort. Always a trade-off somewhere! Stephen Jacobs wrote: I guess the real question is, how comfortable are different size folks with the present (standard) configuration? Scott Cable KR-2S # 735 Wright City, MO s2cable1@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 106 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================