From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 170 Date: 4/30/2005 9:00:20 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Flipping the fuselage (Ron Smith) 2. Re: Oxygen sensors (Martindale Family) 3. Re: tip of the day (Brant Hollensbe) 4. tail wheel (Bill Starrs) 5. RE: Oxygen sensors (Brian Kraut) 6. Re: the internet: friend or foe? (jscott.pilot@juno.com) 7. Learn from my mistake. (long) (Mark Jones) 8. Re: Oxygen sensors (Mark Langford) 9. the internet: friend or foe? (Kevin Jarvis) 10. Re: Learn from my mistake. (long) (Joe) 11. Learn from my mistake. (Kevin Jarvis) 12. Learn from my mistake. (Kevin Jarvis) 13. Re: CorvAircraft> the internet: friend or foe? (Mark Langford) 14. Interesting Web Site (sph12@sbcglobal.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 16:23:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: KR> Flipping the fuselage To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050430232352.51694.qmail@web81704.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was just reading your site today and wondering...... when is Don gonna put up some new pics? They were nice, and good to see your getting close to the end. Nice bird Don. It's also good to see you have some good friends as well :). All of them deserve at least one ride. Regards, Ron Smith KR2ssxl Cypress California U.S. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 09:24:39 +1000 From: "Martindale Family" Subject: Re: KR> Oxygen sensors To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002901c54ddb$c8087060$da26ecdc@athlon2400> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks for that info Mark. Things are now in motion (see other email to Colin). I'm really pleased you got that donk firing up properly now. There I was carrying on about mixture distribution when all it was was a bung plug!! Sorry. 3000rpm on a 54x66 sounds about right to me for the 3100cc engine and at that pitch the prop could be stalling at static. I'd use an Ellison if my wife could afford it because of the mixture thing and I like the simplicity design principle. For now though, it's playing with the Weber (you never stop with these) and mixture gauge when it arrives. I've also done some thorough redesigning of carb/intake/carb heat on top that I'll photograph today and insert on my website. Details later. Diaphragms in new Clarks pump are far superior to the older ones. I might continue this on Corvaircraft rather than Krnet...maybe a bit more relevant over there and most read both anyway. See Ya John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au Mark Langford wrote: > I have one and I love it! ........................... ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:31:19 -0500 From: "Brant Hollensbe" Subject: Re: KR> tip of the day To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: <000d01c54ddc$b6cfe930$0702a8c0@bruntson> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Kevin Thanks for the info. I now have a use for all the broken broom handles momma broke over my head while I installed new valve guides. I was heating VW cylinder heads in her oven. Brant Hollensbe Bhollensbe@mchsi.com - > Grease can also be used to remove the pilot shaft bushing in the standard trans engine crankshafts prior to modifications. Sand, grind, or carve a piece of broom handle or large dowel to just fit in the pilot shaft bushing. It ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:03:59 -0600 From: "Bill Starrs" Subject: KR> tail wheel To: "KR1" Message-ID: <007601c54de1$47471bb0$adc7f004@Bill> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I would like to replace my tail wheel for my KR 1 any suggestions would be greatly appreciated . Billstarrs@peoplepc.com ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:59:54 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Oxygen sensors To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I bought one of the Avmix sensors from Aircraft Spruce thinking it might be something different than an automotive one. It was a Bosch sensor that I got, sorry don't have the part number anymore. In the 35 or so hours that I had it it worked great. It was light years ahead of using an EGT for mixture control. I had a problem with a carb going very rich and fouling plugs in the mid range when it was working fine at idle and full power. The O2 sensor made the problem immediately apparent. Leaning was a total no brainer. The reaction on the mixture meter was instant where the EGT was slow and a whole lot harder to use accurately. I bought a Westach automotive 2" meter for something like $35.00 and used it temporarily while I was waiting on them to build me a custom quad gauge with one of the meters in it as the mixture (great gauge and very inexpensive for what I got). Either the 2" is still here somewhere or Colin has it now. Colin, if you have it, what is the part number? I like the analog meter a lot better than the LED bar graphs. You get much better resolution on it. I got a stainless nut from McMaster Carr for about $5.00 and welded it to the exhaust pipe. I believe it was the same 18mm thread as used on aviation spark plugs. I still have the McMaster part number at work if anyone wants it. You can also buy the threaded bosses made just for this purpose but they are about $30.00. I highly recommend investing under 100 bucks and using an O2 sensor. If you are using an auto conversion with a carb that was tuned for that particular engine by the engine manufacturer (almost all of us) I would consider it almost a necessity. Even if it does not last 50 hours it is invaluable for your initial engine tuning. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Martindale Family Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 11:49 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Oxygen sensors Hi Folks Does anyone out there have experience with these things. I'm thinking of installing one to monitor mixtures but the wide band ones seem costly and I wonder whether they'd last on Avgas even 100LL because of the lead. Is there one around that doesn't get poisoned. Also does anyone know of a 2 1/4 dial or similiar to suit. John The Martindale Family 29 Jane Circuit TOORMINA NSW 2452 AUSTRALIA phone: 61 2 66584767 email: johnjanet@optusnet.com.au _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:12:48 -0600 From: jscott.pilot@juno.com Subject: Re: KR> the internet: friend or foe? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050430.191436.996.1.jscott.pilot@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Less filling and Tastes great!!! Internet groups such as KRnet are a prime source for both good information and bad disinformation. It's up to the reader to figure out who supplies the good data and who's full of BS. The down side to internet groups is that everyone with a keyboard is an expert while experience and credentials are meaningless. That's the part you figure out once you get familiar with the group. -Jeff Scott On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:53:06 -0500 "Oscar Zuniga" writes: > Call me slow, but I'm just now reading the letters to the editor in > the > current "Sport Pilot" and see a letter from Mark Langford rebutting William > Wynne's article about the internet and email lists. Mark's point is that > the lists have value, while William's article posited that they only lead to > conjecture, endless discussions, and non-expert "experts". > > Of course, the letter right after Mark's was from Bob Lester, and it was a > counterpoint to Mark's. > > Less filling... more taste. Which is it? ;o) Myself, I've learned > an > immeasurable amount about experimental aviation and related topics > from my > 12+ years on the internet and email lists, but so far have not completed nor > flown a single homebuilt! > > Oscar Zuniga do not archive > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:18:02 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Learn from my mistake. (long) To: "KR Net" Message-ID: <003a01c54deb$a3b923c0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This morning I was up at daybreak and could not wait to get to the airport. The wind was calm and the temp was 36° and the sky was beautiful blue. What a morning to fly!!! I got to the airport at 6:30 am and pulled the KR out in the glistening sun. Did my pre-flight, hopped in and prepped for start up. Pumped the prime and she fired on the first revolution. I taxied to the pump and put six gallons in each tank on top of what was already there. That would give me a comfortable two hours in the air. Taxied to 29 and did a run up. Pulled out on the runway and firewalled it, rotated at 60, lifted off at 70, climbed out at 95 and was at pattern altitude as I turned on downwind. Held steady at 100 mph on downwind. Turned base then final. I was on a 1.5 mile final and reduced throttle to start bleeding off speed. Dropped the speed brake half way and settled in at 90 mph. At one mile out, I dropped the speed brake all the way down. Slowed to 80 by 1/2 mile and was at 70 over the numbers. I began my flare, throttle all the way out, and settled down for a smooth as glass landing. Had her stopped at mid field turn off (runway is 3000'). I then taxied back to runway 29 and prepared for departure. All was clear, I made the call, firewalled it....rotation again at 60 and lifted off at 70 mph. She climbed to about 300 feet above the ground and stopped climbing. Speed had only reached 80 mph....the PUCKER FACTOR was really setting in as I started looking for a field to set down in. The engine was running smooth and strong....all gauges were right on....what's happening...I stayed very calm and began checking everything. Throttle full...mixture rich...carb heat off....all gauges were still reading perfect except the altimeter and airspeed. I was clearing farm silos not more than 200 ' and I think I saw the farmers daughter in the buff in a hay stack. So, has anyone figured out the problem? All of a sudden it hit me like a brick wall. I did not raise my speed brake after I made the last landing. As I raised the speed brake, the airspeed quickly reached 100...110...120 and I pulled back on the stick and she climbed like a homesick angel. Thank God..... Well after I peeled my butt loose from the seat and relaxed, I continued on for a 1.3 hour flight. Now, before you guys start flaming me, I was not going to tell this story on the list but the more I thought about it, the more I felt you could learn from my mistake. Yes, I have laminated check lists I use for every phase of flight but I made them long before I installed the speed brake so it is not on the check list. Second, I have not installed a position indicator on the speed brake but now have the plans done to do so using micro switches and LED's for indicator lights. So, learn anything? I did. I know the KR will take off with the speed brake down but I would not advise doing it. I honestly think by staying calm and level headed and meticulously diagnosing the problem, saved my butt today. Man I love this KR stuff. Glad I am still with you guys and I can not wait till tomorrow morning to fly again. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:26:24 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Oxygen sensors To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01dc01c54dec$ca0282f0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian Kraut wrote: > something different than an automotive one. It was a Bosch sensor > that I got, sorry don't have the part number anymore. Bosch part number is 11027, "Premium Oxygen Sensor", which I think I paid 30 bucks for from the local VW aftermarket emporium. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:51:45 -0400 From: Kevin Jarvis Subject: KR> the internet: friend or foe? To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <42743631.9080405@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Less filling and Tastes great!!! Internet groups such as KRnet are a prime source for both good information and bad disinformation. It's up to the reader to figure out who supplies the good data and who's full of BS. The down side to internet groups is that everyone with a keyboard is an expert while experience and credentials are meaningless. That's the part you figure out once you get familiar with the group. -Jeff Scott Sadly though, it is sometimes hard for the novice to figure out what is the pepper and what is the fly poop. Even some members with actual FAA credentials, A&P/AI etc., are full of BS. Maybe it takes a group of "experts" to expose some of the pepper........ Kevin and I too have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:01:00 -0500 From: "Joe" Subject: Re: KR> Learn from my mistake. (long) To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000601c54df1$9fba7020$a2cab4d8@Denise> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Mark; I did the same thing only with flaps. I sure was relieved when I figured out the problem. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Jones" To: "KR Net" Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:18 PM Subject: KR> Learn from my mistake. (long) > This morning I was up at daybreak and could not wait to get to the > airport. The wind was calm and the temp was 36° and the sky was beautiful > blue. What a morning to fly!!! I got to the airport at 6:30 am and pulled > the KR out in the glistening sun. Did my pre-flight, hopped in and prepped > for start up. Pumped the prime and she fired on the first revolution. I > taxied to the pump and put six gallons in each tank on top of what was > already there. That would give me a comfortable two hours in the air. > Taxied to 29 and did a run up. Pulled out on the runway and firewalled it, > rotated at 60, lifted off at 70, climbed out at 95 and was at pattern > altitude as I turned on downwind. Held steady at 100 mph on downwind. > Turned base then final. I was on a 1.5 mile final and reduced throttle to > start bleeding off speed. Dropped the speed brake half way and settled in > at 90 mph. At one mile out, I dropped the speed brake all the way down. > Slowed to 80 by 1/2 mile and was at 70 over the numbers. I began my flare, > throttle all the way out, and settled down for a smooth as glass landing. > Had her stopped at mid field turn off (runway is 3000'). I then taxied > back to runway 29 and prepared for departure. All was clear, I made the > call, firewalled it....rotation again at 60 and lifted off at 70 mph. She > climbed to about 300 feet above the ground and stopped climbing. Speed had > only reached 80 mph....the PUCKER FACTOR was really setting in as I > started looking for a field to set down in. The engine was running smooth > and strong....all gauges were right on....what's happening...I stayed very > calm and began checking everything. Throttle full...mixture rich...carb > heat off....all gauges were still reading perfect except the altimeter and > airspeed. I was clearing farm silos not more than 200 ' and I think I saw > the farmers daughter in the buff in a hay stack. So, has anyone figured > out the problem? All of a sudden it hit me like a brick wall. I did not > raise my speed brake after I made the last landing. As I raised the speed > brake, the airspeed quickly reached 100...110...120 and I pulled back on > the stick and she climbed like a homesick angel. Thank God..... Well after > I peeled my butt loose from the seat and relaxed, I continued on for a 1.3 > hour flight. > > Now, before you guys start flaming me, I was not going to tell this > story > on the list but the more I thought about it, the more I felt you could > learn from my mistake. Yes, I have laminated check lists I use for every > phase of flight but I made them long before I installed the speed brake so > it is not on the check list. Second, I have not installed a position > indicator on the speed brake but now have the plans done to do so using > micro switches and LED's for indicator lights. So, learn anything? I did. > I know the KR will take off with the speed brake down but I would not > advise doing it. I honestly think by staying calm and level headed and > meticulously diagnosing the problem, saved my butt today. Man I love this > KR stuff. Glad I am still with you guys and I can not wait till tomorrow > morning to fly again. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI USA > E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com > Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at > http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:09:37 -0400 From: Kevin Jarvis Subject: KR> Learn from my mistake. To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <42743A61.9000008@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Mark, As I was reading, I knew before I got to the answer what you had done, (or forgot to do). Why, ..because it was so familiar as a check list item on the Citation that I fly. The speed brakes will only extend at a particular power setting throttle position. Advance the throttles beyond that position and they will retract. I check that part of the system before every takeoff. That's a great feature for go-arounds when you have them extended on the final. 'Course you don't have the luxury of a power actuated speed brake, but you can rig a micro switch to the speed brakes and one to the throttle to activate a very bright light on the panel when they are extended and the throttle goes to some high power position. It would be only a little work and very little weight. And beside, a guy's butt can only digest so much seat fabric..... Other. I think it's great that you are having so much Yeeehaaa. And I really enjoy your dialogs. Kevin and I too have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:14:59 -0400 From: Kevin Jarvis Subject: KR> Learn from my mistake. To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <42743BA3.90409@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Mark, Opps. I see that you do have a power board. Now it's even easier. Rig the switches to raise the board at high power settings. This would be easy for you since you are familiar with the aircraft anyway. Kevin and I too have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:20:59 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: KR> Re: CorvAircraft> the internet: friend or foe? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <021301c54df4$6a78d570$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I guess I should've forwarded this to KRnet too, so here goes... John Martindale wrote: > I find this issue of interest. Is there any chance you could send me a copy > over here. Happy to cover costs. John, I'm too lazy to type in William's original Sport Pilot article, as it was pretty long. Maybe somebody could paraphrase it for you. Here is my rebuttal, although the third paragraph and the middle sentence in the last paragraph were deleted from what appeared in print: Having read William Wynne's "Internet Fun and Fantasy" regarding the usefulness of the Internet with respect to aircraft and engine building, I have to comment. While it is true that there is some disinformation out there, it is FAR outweighed by the expertise available on the many forums and the hundreds of how-to web pages that show step-by-step construction details for other builders, where only a vacuum existed before. I run two Internet email lists, KRnet (www.krnet.org) for the KR aircraft, and CorvAircraft (www.corvaircraft.com/) for the Corvair engine. These two lists have about 600 subscribers each, some of which are long-time engineers, aircraft mechanics, builders, and pilots. 95% of the time, a neophyte's question will be answered quickly and correctly by one of the experts. The other 5% of the time, a debate may ensue, but the truth (or at least both sides of the issue) will come out, and we all get a little more educated in the process. A quick visit to www.N56ML.com will quickly answer just about any question you could have on building a KR, and www.krnet.org will show you over a hundred projects and flying KRs to learn from. I think it's safe to say that the KR series has been completely revitalized due to the support of Internet web sites and the KRnet email list. An Internet collaboration was even responsible for the development of a new low-drag airfoil especially for the KRs (see http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ ). The vast majority of "type" websites are established by builders who have no other agenda than to help others avoid the pitfalls that they themselves have already experienced, and at their own expense. Even the Corvair engine owes some of its recent success to the Internet, as I'm sure William would acknowledge. And if somebody showed up asking about a bogus engine manufacturer, it wouldn't take us long to expose the charlatan. I don't think there's any doubt that the Internet is a huge asset for experimental airplane builders and future pilots... Now here is what Bob Lester said: Bravo! It's about time someone spoke the truth! My friend, Steve Makish, and I have built and flown KR2s for more than 15 years. Both are award winners. I'm telling you this not to brag, but to let you know we know what we are talking about. Both of us have tried to educate other builders on both the KR and Corvair websites, In nearly every case, we've been shot down by know-it-alls who had not finished building their aircraft much less flown them. But on the website they set themselves up as high authorities. After repeated flaming we both quit trying. When we do get a call from a builder, we advise him to go to the website and look at the two groups. One lists the people still building; the second lists those people who have finished and flown. They will give you facts, not just their theories presented as fact. You'll live longer. Bob Lester ---------------------------------------------- I guess these both speak for themselves, but I don't remember Bob ever having posted to either KRnet or to CorvAircraft, and if he did, a search of the archives shows that he didn't sign it with the word "Lester" in it. It's a shame though, because the KR/Corvair building communty could certainly have used some the extensive flying and building experience he has. I do remember somebody giving Steve Makish a hard time for no reason, but he's over it now, and we're lucky to have him around still. I've been flamed a few times myself, but I have thick enough skin to keep coming back for more. Maybe one of these days I'll be able to move my website to the "Flying KRs" column, but I guess until then I'm just another know-it-all... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:56:48 -0500 From: Subject: KR> Interesting Web Site To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008501c54df9$6ba07340$800101df@shendersonlt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello KR Netters, I was looking around on the net and found a website of a guy that flew around the world in his KR2. The website address is http://www.alagem.com/cgi-bin/subsite/wt/welcome.asp and it is quite interesting. There are pictures and a diary of the trip. I am just passing this on because it is interesting reading. Thanks, Steve Henderson Stephen Henderson Project Manager Witt Biomedical Corporation Corporate: 800.669.1328 Cell: 800.273.7983 Email: shenderson@wittbiomedical.com ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 170 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================