From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 172 Date: 5/1/2005 9:00:13 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: mistakes / new story-long (Brian Kraut) 2. Re: K R 1 for sale (kwiese) 3. Re: MY BABY WAS BURNING !!!! (Dan Heath) 4. Re: How much does a DAR charge? (Born2Fly32570@wmconnect.com) 5. RE: How much does a DAR charge? (Brian Kraut) 6. Re: How much does a DAR charge? (Bob Glidden) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 21:09:09 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> mistakes / new story-long To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Glad to hear that you and the KR will fly again. The O-200 in my Midget Mustang starts best with a few shots of prime. Have someone shoot a couple of shots of prime while you are looking with the cowl off to make sure that you don't have a crack in the line somewhere shooting fuel in the wrong place. That could explain the fire and the hard starting. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of larry flesner Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 8:38 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> mistakes / new story-long This seems to be "sharing and learning from others mistakes" weekend so I'll share with you a few exciting moments I had this morning as 13 years of building and lots of fun flying flashed before my eyes !!!! After diver dumping (hauling skydivers) all day yesterday in a tired C182 I was looking forward to some KR time today. I was off to the airport at 7:30AM with blue skies and light winds. I rolled the trailer out of the way, rolled out the Rans S-6 a friend of mine has in the hangar, and rolled out the KR. With everything put back in place and a quick preflight, I was ready for another YEE HAA kind of day. A quick shot of prime and a pull on the starter handle had the blades rotating. Wouldn't fire a lick. D#m*, must have flooded it so I kept the starter engaged and went to full throttle to try to clear the induction system. Still didn't hit a single time. O.K., let it set for a minute or two and let the gas evaporate. Tried it again and it coughed to life, ran maybe 10 seconds, stumbled and died. HEY, IS THAT SMOKE ROLLING OUT OF THE COWL !! SH*#, NOW WHAT DO I DO, KEEP CRANKING OR RUN FOR MY LIFE. I shut off the fuel and jumped out. As I reached the front of the KR I spotted a two inch rolling flame on the bottom of the cowl with melting, burning, dripping paint and what I learned later was melting, burning epoxy!!!!! DUMB MISTAKE #1 : I had flooded the engine. Jeff Scott told me, and maybe the net, on at least one occasion that the 0-200 is an easy starter without prime. I never listened and have on several occasions flooded the engine without any problems. DUMB MISTAKE #2 : No fire extinguisher handy. I quickly remembered the two gallon weed sprayer setting in the hangar that I use to wash down the engine. Hoping it had some water in it I made two or three 20 foot leaps to the hangar and back. It was nearly full !!!! I know you're not supposed to spray water on a fuel fire but hey, MY BABY WAS BURNING !!!! The first shot of water quickly extinguished the burning cowl on the outside so I stuck the nozzle in the access hole for the oil quickdrain, pumped like hell on the sprayer and directed the nozzle in every direction I could inside the cowl. It probably only took 10 seconds to extinguish the flame but I think I pumped the sprayer half empty. Thinking I had the fire out I ran to the truck to get my battery powered drill and bit to remove the cowl. Not knowing what shape the battery was in I grabbed the extra battery also. Turns out they were both nearly run down but between the two of them I removed the cowl. Soot everywhere but no damage at all that I could detect to the engine. The paint was not even scorched on the carb heat box. The cowl was another issue. An area about twice the size of your hand and fingers was TRASHED ! The epoxy had burned completely out of the glass cloth and you could see daylight right through the weave in several areas. I have no clue as to what ignited the fire. I'm sure I flooded the engine and supplied the fuel but there was no hint of a backfire or anything that would hint of trouble. Lesson 1: Raw fuel outside the induction system is BAD NEWS! I may remove my primer and will use a different starting procedure from now on. The engine will be cranking before I induce any fuel into the system by either cracking or pumping the throttle. Lesson 2: I intend to purchase a small fire extinguisher and carry it in the KR. Lesson 3: Resin and paint can continue to burn even after the fuel (gas) has burned off. When I repair the cowl next week I intend to build in a small stainless or aluminum catch basin under the carb that will route any fuel leakage to the access hole for the oil quickdrain rather then let it possibly pool in the cowl. Being a taildragger it will have a nice natural incline. If a fire does develop, it will keep the flames out of contact with the resin and what little fuel stays on the metal will hopefully burn off quickly. 1000+ hours and this was my first experiance with an engine fire. Hopefully it will be my last ! I'm sure others may see other lessons to be learned here and if so, good. As for me, I'M ONE LUCKY DUDE !!! My "Little Phoenix" will rise from the ashes to fly again !!! YEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!! Larry Flesner _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 20:34:55 -0600 From: kwiese Subject: Re: KR> K R 1 for sale To: KRnet Message-ID: <427591CF.2050503@alltel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Bill Starrs wrote: >I will have my KR 1 for sale soon > >Bill, > > interested in your airplane. Could you send me specks and photos? Kwiese@alltel.net THanks Keith ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 22:12:10 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Re: MY BABY WAS BURNING !!!! To: Message-ID: <42758C7A.000001.03176@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Apparently primers are a common cause of fires. The person who is sub-letting my hangar, had his plane burned very badly because of not following the priming procedures to the letter. I am sure glad that you and your Phoenix made it through that with little damage. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 22:56:49 EDT From: Born2Fly32570@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: KR>How much does a DAR charge? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <1e.44888b7f.2fa6f0f1@wmconnect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello netters. I need to know what the average fee a DAR charges to Inspect my plane? Hurricane restoration almost done. And she is looking good. Thanks in advance. Ferris Mcgee N61305 Milton, FL. Where we have welcome, and come back again on the same sign. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 23:09:42 -0400 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR>How much does a DAR charge? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just paid $450 in Jacksonville for an inspection on a Midget Mustang. I have heard of other DARs in Florida charging from $300 - $500. There is a listing on the FAA web site. Call a few in your area and get prices. The FSDO will do it for free, but there is no telling when you could get one. I called the Orlando FSDO and they told me it could easily be 6 months or a lot longer. By far your best option is to try to find an AB-DAR. They are essentially EAA volunteer DARs. They can only charge reasonable travel expenses, etc. so even with a good amount of travel it will probably cost less than a hundred bucks. The problem is that there are not a whole lot of them yet since it is a pretty new program. I was pretty excited about the AB-DAR program when I first heard about it because I am an A&P and could have become one. When I found out that you can't make any money at it, have to get training on your own nickel, and still have the liability of signing off someone else's airplane I dropped the idea like a hot rock. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Born2Fly32570@wmconnect.com Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 10:57 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: Re: KR>How much does a DAR charge? Hello netters. I need to know what the average fee a DAR charges to Inspect my plane? Hurricane restoration almost done. And she is looking good. Thanks in advance. Ferris Mcgee N61305 Milton, FL. Where we have welcome, and come back again on the same sign. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 22:23:12 -0500 From: "Bob Glidden" Subject: Re: KR>How much does a DAR charge? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003b01c54ec6$45cd49e0$6401a8c0@ADMINISTRATOR> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Brian I looked into the AB-DAR program as well and was told that you had to have so much time in a certain type aircraft to qualify.I could not find a lot of info on the subject.I'm not really worried about the liability of signing off someone plane I do that every time I sign off an Annual.There is not really any DAR's close to us here in Indiana and the one the Indianapolis FSDO told me to talk to said he doe's not like to do homebuilts.If you get some more info on it or a clear set of qualification let me know...Thanks Bob > I was pretty excited about the AB-DAR program when I first heard about > it because I am an A&P and could have become one. When I found out > that you can't make any money at it, have to get training on your own > nickel, and still have the liability of signing off someone else's > airplane I dropped the idea like a hot rock. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 172 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================