From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 176 Date: 5/4/2005 2:16:41 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Rivet question (sph12@sbcglobal.net) 2. R?f. : RE: KR> internet friend or foe (Serge VIDAL) 3. RE: internet friend or foe (Dann Johnson) 4. Re: Rivet question (Dan Heath) 5. Rivets (JIM VANCE) 6. Re: Rivets (Dan Heath) 7. Is it really a RAF 48 (Serge VIDAL) 8. Is it really a RAF 48 (Ron Eason) 9. Re: Is it really a RAF 48 (Mark Langford) 10. R?f. : Re: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 (Serge VIDAL) 11. Re: Rivet question (Stephen and Janet Henderson) 12. Is it really a RAF 48 (Oscar Zuniga) 13. Re: Rivet question (Donald Reid) 14. Re: Is it really a RAF 48 (Donald Reid) 15. Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 (Mark Langford) 16. R?f. : KR> Is it really a RAF 48 (Serge VIDAL) 17. Rivet question (larry flesner) 18. RE: Rivet question (Mark Jones) 19. RE: Is it really a RAF 48 (Stephen Jacobs) 20. Re: Is it really a RAF 48 (patrusso) 21. Re: Rivet question (Joseph H. Horton) 22. Re: Found a KR-2 to buy (N667HU@aol.com) 23. WAF (babywolf@aol.com) 24. Re: WAF (babywolf@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 23:56:24 -0500 From: Subject: KR> Rivet question To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00de01c55065$a0131010$800101df@shendersonlt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello, I am about to cut my forward deck off and install piano hinges so that I can make it removable. What kind of rivets are recommended to connect the piano hinge to the fiberglass? I prefer a rivet that has a low profile. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you, Steve Stephen Henderson Project Manager Witt Biomedical Corporation Corporate: 800.669.1328 Cell: 800.273.7983 Email: shenderson@wittbiomedical.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 09:43:01 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : RE: KR> internet friend or foe To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Quite true, Doug. One remark with regards to the "Experimental" category. The word is a misnommer, since the category is used to register two types of planes: proven designs, and unproven designs. If you replicate exactly, as per plans, an existing design, then you are not, strictly speaking, "experimenting". If you buy a kit, complete, and merely assemble it, you re not, strictly speaking, "experimenting". (Although in all cases, your merits will be outstanding).This is why most countries have chosen to label this category "amateur built", rather than "experimental". In South Africa, my warning placard inside the cockpit was not "Experimental" but "Amateur Built". In France, it is even broader, since the category is "restricted airworthiness certificate", and covers all antiques, experimental, amateur built, and "orphaned aircraft" (whose manufacturer has disappeared). Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Doug Rupert" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-05-04 05:16 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-05-04 05:17 Pour : "'KRnet'" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : RE: KR> internet friend or foe Good point Don. I for one appreciate any and all comments as anyone who hangs around here for long ends up broadening their horizons as well as education. Anyone that takes one comment that is not substantiated as gospel is well on the way to destruction. It does not matter the medium whether internet or print as there are always those out there that will try and profess their expertise at many things. Usually these are for personal gain or to get you to buy something. Many here need to remember the classification of the aircraft we are building as well as the power-plants we choose to use. EXPERIMENTAL. We work out there on the fringe and that is the real kick in our endeavors. We create or dreams and hold the course till we have achieved the required end. Many items that now grace the cockpit of certificated aircraft once got their start in experimental aircraft. I for one really like this new medium we call the internet as it allows us access to much more information than we would generally have. The fact that we have both the KRNet and Corvair list at our disposal allows us to make informed choices when constructing our own projects. Much time and energy is saved by making mistakes that others have or trying something that others have proven don't work. I can't help wondering what Ken would think if he could see or ride in some of the KR's being built today. Bill Clapp's or Troy Pettaway's come immediately to mind. Think of it, no we can't duplicate Ken's empty weight but we can come close. Today we routinely outperform the original KR's with the new airfoil or Corvair engines. I sincerely doubt that there are many of us that would take to the air without at least a basic compliment of flight instruments as well as navigation equipment. The pitch sensitivity issue that once plagued this wonderful design is now a thing of the past and many KR's taking to the air these days can be flown hands off for periods of time. We have come a long way since the original design debuted so long ago and now we have gotten to a point where many of our machines are KR's in name only due to design changes that have been instituted and proven over the years by those that have gone before us. Even Orma's KR is not immune and has undergone changes since it was originally built twenty years ago so I for one say keep those comments coming. Doug Rupert -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.2 - Release Date: 5/2/2005 _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 02:57:05 -0500 From: "Dann Johnson" Subject: RE: KR> internet friend or foe To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050504075705.C949F86B10@ws7-1.us4.outblaze.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Don has a good point. When I was a college student traveling in Mexico, my Spanish teacher had warned me that I should always ask directions from 3 different (sets of ) people. He warned me that, "one seldom gets the same directions, 3 times in a row". However, if you get 2 sets of people telling you the same thing, the directions are usually safe to follow. Beginning with the GOOGLE internet search engine , a couple of months ago, I was able to find and join a local EAA chapter. I made my first EAA chapter meeting in April, after missing the March meeting by a couple hours... ( the time posted on the web page was wrong.. the chapter now meets at 1:30 PM rather than 4 PM). The internet has helped give me the confidence to finally act on my dream. I started flying when I was 16 and have held a private pilot's lic since I was 17. The realities of raising a large family has contributed to keeping me out of the air most of the last 30 years. With a CFI on board, I rented a Cessna 172 and went flying last Saturday. How I love flying! I was a member of the national EAA back in the 1980s, and took my wife and children with me on several pilgramiges to Oshkosh to oogle KR2 (s). More than 30 years ago.. circa 1974, a college buddy and I got a set of KR1 plans, so I have been lurking around the dreamy KR fringes for a long time. In the early 1990s I hung around the garage of a pilot friend who was trying to complete a KR2 that he had purchased in boat stage. Now I hope to do similar, when I can get it hauled home to my garage. My wife says that it can't occupy our garage before #3 son's High School Graduation on May 22... . I wonder, what is a good estimate of numbers of flying KR1, KR2, and KR2S. Reading the online FAA accident reports, it looked like the majority of the KR crashes are due to engine failure during takeoff. ( Now, I am definately leaning to a duel ignition system ). Dann Johnson Thompson, Iowa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Rupert" To: "'KRnet'" Subject: RE: KR> internet friend or foe Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 23:16:47 -0400 > > Good point Don. I for one appreciate any and all comments as anyone > who hangs around here for long ends up broadening their horizons as > well as education. Anyone that takes one comment that is not > substantiated as gospel is well on the way to destruction. -- _______________________________________________ NEW! Lycos Dating Search. The only place to search multiple dating sites at once. http://datingsearch.lycos.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 06:08:00 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Rivet question To: Message-ID: <42789F00.000007.00508@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Click on this. I recommend one of the countersink rivets on this page. http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=1584/index.html See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- I prefer a rivet that has a low profile. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you, Steve ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 05:34:37 -0500 From: "JIM VANCE" Subject: KR> Rivets To: "krnet" Message-ID: <002d01c55095$63c2ff00$0a00a8c0@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I used flat headed countersunk pop rivets on the piano hinge on my cowling. I could control the force on the rivets so that I didn't beat up the fiberglass/epoxy that I worked so hard to form. They covered nicely with filler so they are invisible. Jim Vance ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 06:46:14 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: Re: KR> Rivets To: Message-ID: <4278A7F6.000009.00508@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I squeeze mine with a vice grip, no beating. See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC -------Original Message------- so that I didn't beat up the fiberglass/epoxy that I worked so hard to form. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:24:23 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Something puzzles me. I found by chance, over the Internet, a 'ribs generator' program, designed for radio-controlled models, wih more than a thousand profiles available. You just enter the profile type, the chord of the first rib, the chord of the last rib, and the number of ribs, and voila! You get a PDF file that goes to your printer, with "assembly marks" to help you glue the paper sheets together. I used it to make a RAF 48 profile, with a 48" chord, as per KR2 specs. The trouble is, what I get is different from the KR2 Scale 1 drawing. The KR2 profile is slightly thicker. What the hell is wrong here? Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 05:06:10 -0700 From: "Ron Eason" Subject: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: KRnet Message-ID: <200505040506.AA349372980@jrl-engineering.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I believe the RAF 48 in the plans are plotted from published coordinates, the model RAF 48 may have been plotted by some curve fitting analog program. I wanted to add more sq. Ft. to my KR w/o extending the wings so I plotted a 54" cord that is installed tight to the fus, the outer stub [48"] transitions to a 54" at the fus. the coordinate method work for me. I used autocad to plot the profile. Ronald R. Eason Sr. Pres. & CEO, KCMO Office J.R.L. Engineering Consortium Ltd. 816-468-4091, Kansas City, MO. Jim Eason V.P, 770-446-1291, Atlanta, Georgia Web Page: www.jrl-engineering.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Serge VIDAL Reply-To: KRnet Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 13:24:23 +0200 Something puzzles me. I found by chance, over the Internet, a 'ribs generator' program, designed for radio-controlled models, wih more than a thousand profiles available. You just enter the profile type, the chord of the first rib, the chord of the last rib, and the number of ribs, and voila! You get a PDF file that goes to your printer, with "assembly marks" to help you glue the paper sheets together. I used it to make a RAF 48 profile, with a 48" chord, as per KR2 specs. The trouble is, what I get is different from the KR2 Scale 1 drawing. The KR2 profile is slightly thicker. What the hell is wrong here? Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 07:22:08 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <026e01c550a3$e43d96a0$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Serge Vidal wrote: > I used it to make a RAF 48 profile, with a 48" chord, as per KR2 > specs. The trouble is, what I get is different from the KR2 Scale 1 > drawing. The KR2 profile is slightly thicker. I don't know about the thickness, but I can tell you that it sure does look like the full size drawing was done with a "french curve"! Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:21:55 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : Re: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What is a "French Curve"? "Mark Langford" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-05-04 14:22 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-05-04 14:19 Pour : "KRnet" cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : Re: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 Serge Vidal wrote: > I used it to make a RAF 48 profile, with a 48" chord, as per KR2 > specs. The trouble is, what I get is different from the KR2 Scale 1 > drawing. The > KR2 profile is slightly thicker. I don't know about the thickness, but I can tell you that it sure does look like the full size drawing was done with a "french curve"! Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 07:43:15 -0500 From: "Stephen and Janet Henderson" Subject: Re: KR> Rivet question To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002101c550a6$d7efb010$800101df@shendersonlt> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I would like to thank everyone who answered my rivet question. I will be ordering some countersunk rivets from Wicks. Thank you, Steve Henderson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Heath" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 5:08 AM Subject: Re: KR> Rivet question > Click on this. I recommend one of the countersink rivets on this page. > > http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=1584/index. > html > > > > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > building > has expired. > > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > > -------Original Message------- > > I prefer a rivet that has a low profile. Any help is greatly > appreciated. > > Thank you, > > Steve > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 07:48:31 -0500 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A "french curve" is a drafting template (you remember Drafting 101, where you learned technical drawing, orthogonal drawing, lettering, etc.?) ;o) Anyway, you use it to "fair in" curves between points. It has nothing to do with Parisian women. As Mark has noted many times, and documented in the technical reports on the development of the AS50xx-series airfoils, his early attempts to find published RAF coordinates and to reconcile those with the printed profile used on the KR, led to confusion and frustration. In the end, I believe he used a close approximation because the published coordinates didn't agree with reality or with what Ken Rand used for the KR. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 08:48:31 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Rivet question To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20050504084239.01b32e50@mail.peoplepc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:56 AM 5/4/2005, you wrote: >Hello, > > I am about to cut my forward deck off and install piano hinges so > that I can make it removable. What kind of rivets are recommended to > connect the piano hinge to the fiberglass? I prefer a rivet that has a > low profile. Any help is greatly appreciated. I used 1/8 inch countersunk with 1 inch center-to-center on my cowling. I have about 8 plies of 5 oz glass at the rivet joint to reinforce the joint. You can squeeze the rivets or put the bucking bar on the machine head (the outside) and drive the shop head (the inside) with a small hammer. Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://aerofoilengineering.com KR2XL construction: http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm Aviation Surplus: http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 08:56:48 -0400 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20050504084920.01b946e8@mail.peoplepc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:24 AM 5/4/2005, you wrote: >Something puzzles me. I found by chance, over the Internet, a 'ribs >generator' program, designed for radio-controlled models, wih more than >a thousand profiles available. You just enter the profile type, the >chord of the first rib, the chord of the last rib, and the number of >ribs, and voila! You get a PDF file that goes to your printer, with >"assembly marks" to help you glue the paper sheets together. > >I used it to make a RAF 48 profile, with a 48" chord, as per KR2 specs. >The trouble is, what I get is different from the KR2 Scale 1 drawing. >The KR2 profile is slightly thicker. A long time ago, I measured the as-drawn RAF and compared it with the as-published data and I remember that they do not agree exactly. The paper may have changed dimension and/or the copying process may not be a true one-to-one. Small differences can be because of the way the smooth line joining coordinate points is generated. The software uses a mathematical spline fit and the paper version used manual drafting tools. It is also possible that slightly different coordinate data was used to generate the different versions. Unless the differences are significant, the flying differences will be inconsequential. Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://aerofoilengineering.com KR2XL construction: http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm Aviation Surplus: http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 08:21:30 -0500 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: R?f. : Re: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <028201c550ac$2f141750$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Serge There's a PDF file of the RAF48 wing profiles at http://www.krnet.org/as504x/raf48_templates.pdf . I did these a long time ago for Dana, I think it was. They are CAD generated and accurate to the published coordinates. But like Don said, the plans version work fine too. These are not the same high quality as the AS504X templates that I've done before, that is they don't have spar dimensions or angles or any of that stuff, but they do have the spar location, level line, and chord line drawn in. They can be taken to Kinkos and plotted out for something like ten bucks, just in case your plans version is lost or destroyed, or as usually happens to bluelines, faded to oblivion! Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 15:23:00 +0200 From: Serge VIDAL Subject: R?f. : KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks, Oscar. That explains a lot. This sounds easier than convincing my wife to stand still while I draw! By the way, I missed Drafting 101, since it was not considered a useful subject in Political Sciences. OK, I will avoid the confusion and frustration. Suffice to know that the KR profile and the RAF 48 profile are not the same thing. Serge "Oscar Zuniga" Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-05-04 14:48 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-05-04 14:48 Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> Is it really a RAF 48 A "french curve" is a drafting template (you remember Drafting 101, where you learned technical drawing, orthogonal drawing, lettering, etc.?) ;o) Anyway, you use it to "fair in" curves between points. It has nothing to do with Parisian women. As Mark has noted many times, and documented in the technical reports on the development of the AS50xx-series airfoils, his early attempts to find published RAF coordinates and to reconcile those with the printed profile used on the KR, led to confusion and frustration. In the end, I believe he used a close approximation because the published coordinates didn't agree with reality or with what Ken Rand used for the KR. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 08:37:09 -0500 From: larry flesner Subject: KR> Rivet question To: KRnet Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20050504083709.0086d560@pop.midwest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I am about to cut my forward deck off and install piano hinges so > that I can make it removable. What kind of rivets are recommended to connect the piano hinge to the fiberglass? I prefer a rivet that has a low profile. >Steve ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ On the piano hinge for my speed brake I didn't use and rivets or fasteners other than epoxy/flox and a layer of glass. All my blind nuts on the cowl and metal surrounds inside access panels are all done with epoxy/flox also. On a piano hinge I would drill 1/8" holes, maybe 20 or 30 per foot, lay a bed of epoxy/flox and cleco or otherwise hold the hinge in place until cured. I added one layer of glass over the hinge also when floxing it in place. The epoxy/flox will "ooze" up through the holes and bond with the glass overlay. I've had my speed brake deployed at 110mph indicated on many occasions and it's still solid as a rock. As always, your results may vary !!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 09:01:32 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: RE: KR> Rivet question To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <26D1C67793459F43BF8DA235F92B1F3549DA4D@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" My forward deck is also removable using piano hinges attached as Larry describes below. Very solid procedure. Here is a link to my forward deck "Raise That Hood". http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/hood.html Mark Jones (N886MJ...14.7 flight hours) Wales, WI -----Original Message---- Of larry flesner Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 8:37 AM To: KRnet Subject: KR> Rivet question > > I am about to cut my forward deck off and install piano hinges so > that I can make it removable. What kind of rivets are recommended to connect the piano hinge to the fiberglass? I prefer a rivet that has a low profile. >Steve ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ On the piano hinge for my speed brake I didn't use and rivets or fasteners other than epoxy/flox and a layer of glass. All my blind nuts on the cowl and metal surrounds inside access panels are all done with epoxy/flox also. On a piano hinge I would drill 1/8" holes, maybe 20 or 30 per foot, lay a bed of epoxy/flox and cleco or otherwise hold the hinge in place until cured. I added one layer of glass over the hinge also when floxing it in place. The epoxy/flox will "ooze" up through the holes and bond with the glass overlay. I've had my speed brake deployed at 110mph indicated on many occasions and it's still solid as a rock. As always, your results may vary !!! Larry Flesner ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 16:45:13 +0200 From: "Stephen Jacobs" Subject: RE: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <000001c550b7$e6b906d0$7464a8c0@stephen> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The trouble is, what I get is different from the KR2 Scale 1 drawing. The KR2 profile is slightly thicker. What the hell is wrong here? ++++++++++++++++ Hey mon ami There is not much wrong - your airplane flies great - no? The RAF 48 (according to my software) is 14.96% at 30%Ch or 182.43mm for the 1912.2mm (48") section. When I measure this dimension in Auto Cad it comes out at 182.43mm - 0.09 diff, so it should be correct? Max camber of 2,93% falls at 40% Ch. Steve J ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 10:57:56 -0400 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001001c550b9$a825d270$95a472d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original And....the older blue print, copy and printers machinery distorted original drawings as much as five percent. and with subsequent copies for later editions, if a distorted copy was used,...you get more distortions...ad infinitum! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Reid" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 8:56 AM Subject: Re: KR> Is it really a RAF 48 > At 07:24 AM 5/4/2005, you wrote: >>Something puzzles me. I found by chance, over the Internet, a 'ribs >>generator' program, designed for radio-controlled models, wih more >>than a red the as-drawn RAF and compared it with the > as-published data and I remember that they do not agree exactly. > > Unless the differences are significant, the flying differences will be > inconsequential. ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 11:32:25 -0400 From: "Joseph H. Horton" Subject: Re: KR> Rivet question To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050504.113226.3336.5.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steve, Take this for what it is worth, but I did not use any mechanical fasteners. I prepped the hinge by drilling holes and counter sinking them,sanded and cleaned the alum., floxed the hinge to the deck and the fuselage and then added a layer of glass over the hinge flange. after it was set and fit good the hinge was protected with a layer of vinyl tape on the out side and glassed over to conceal the whole area and blend back into the sides. The only thing left showing is a 1/16 inch seam and the 1/4 inch end of piano wire that folds neatly out of the way. Never been flown or tested !! Good luck-- JoeHorton On Tue, 3 May 2005 23:56:24 -0500 writes: > Hello, > > I am about to cut my forward deck off and install piano hinges > so that I can make it removable. What kind of rivets are recommended > to connect the piano hinge to the fiberglass? I prefer a rivet that > has a low profile. Any help is greatly appreciated. > > Thank you, > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > Stephen Henderson > Project Manager > Witt Biomedical Corporation > Corporate: 800.669.1328 > Cell: 800.273.7983 > Email: shenderson@wittbiomedical.com > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Joe Horton joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 14:32:16 EDT From: N667HU@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> Found a KR-2 to buy To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <74.532fb77c.2faa6f30@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Bryon, if you are not interested in the KR in portland, please let me know. I might be interested. I am in Eugene, OR and I need a good project. Thanks Larry ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 17:12:32 -0400 From: babywolf@aol.com Subject: KR> WAF To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <8C71F051F179C9C-7F0-12B04@mblk-d34.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In spite of using the WAF drilling the main spar I missed a little bit. Is it permissible to use T88 and a 3/16 wood dowl to plug the mistake or do I have to make a new spar? Garrry Cowles Santa Fe NM ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 17:16:13 -0400 From: babywolf@aol.com Subject: Re: KR> WAF To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <8C71F05A30C7DDB-7F0-12B69@mblk-d34.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed -----Original Message----- From: babywolf@aol.com To: krnet@mylist.net Sent: Wed, 04 May 2005 17:12:32 -0400 Subject: KR> WAF In spite of using the WAF drilling jig on the main spar I missed a little bit. Is it permissible to use T88 and a 3/16 wood dowl to plug the mistake or do I have to make a new spar? Garrry Cowles Santa Fe NM _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 176 *************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================